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The Bad Trip: Experiences of Infinite Solitude and Terror

sinisterbotanist

Greenlighter
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
8
Location
Southern Indiana
Hey Bluelighters. I don't use these forums very much, but I thought I'd go ahead and post, as it seems there are many knowledgeable people around here that could aid me.

Over a year ago, I used LSD in a pretty foolish setting. This would have been the third time I used it. Two tabs of "strong" acid on the beach. Just looking to feel euphoric and see what a beach on acid would look like. It was subtle, but still quite frightening. (it probably was not LSD, since it lasted 16 hours and there was no noticeable come-up or come-down) I gradually got the insight that my me was never going to stop. Consciousness became something to be dreaded, since it was never ever going to stop.. running infinitely onward. The One that recreates itself out of nothingness just keeps going and going, and it would never ever end. There was no meaning, at all. It wasn't something to be upset about.. the feeling is so inexpressible. The world took on a menacing look and that feeling stuck with me, long after the trip. I developed depersonalization and probably HPPD, which I at first thought was just depression. I then thought it might have been something about my brain chemistry, as if I just genetically wasn't built to have an enjoyable psychedelic experience and all other ones would end up terrible. (I did trip again and enjoyed it, but the derealization continued even the day after.) Yet, I've slowly began realizing that a number of others have experienced the same thing I have, and some continue to trip. I just wish I could find more people who knew have gone there.

A few examples of other psychedelic explorers finding the terrible place..
-The unnamed poet friend of Mr. Shulgin in PiHKAL, his MMDA trip. He called it the Olympian Universe, and Captain Zero. Unknown if he continued psychedelics
-Ann Shulgin's weeklong plus two in the chapter "Crisis" in PiHKAL, who made a full recovery, obviously
-Possibly Huxley in talking about the "negative visionary experience" in Heaven and Hell
-Various erowid reports
-William Braden in his book The Private Sea (http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/lsd/bradenp.htm), never touched psychs again
But who was I, who didn't want it? I was Everybody, the Self. And now I knew what the little selves were for, I thought. They were a fiction designed to protect the Self from the knowledge of its own Being—to keep the Self from going mad. For surely, without them, the Self might be driven to insanity by the thought of its own audacity, and the thought of its loneliness, and the thought as well of the danger it was in. And it was in danger, I knew that perfectly well. Since it was All That There Was, there was nothing to assure it of its own immortality. And in fact, I could sense, there was that which resisted both its Being and Becoming. And this something was nothing more than Nothingness itself, against which the Self had exerted its will to Become. Thus the ontic anxiety, as Tillich expressed it: the ultimate fear of ultimate non-Being. Or so it seemed, as I struggled with my seven demons; and translating the Self into selves once more, I imagined that I now understood with perfect clarity the meaning of a passage that had always haunted me in Unamuno's story of the good priest Don Emmanuel. That saintly man had preached to his flock the word of God and the message of salvation, which gave them great joy. There were those, however, who perceived that Don Emmanuel himself was a tormented soul, and one day, while walking in the countryside, a villager named Lazarus begged the priest to tell him the truth—the truth above all! And all a-tremble, Don Emmanuel whispered into the ear of him who had asked: "The truth? The truth, Lazarus, is perhaps something so unbearable, so terrible, something so deadly, that simple people could not live with it!"

I would hate to think that what I felt that day on the beach is the truth about the whole universe. I didn't fight it at first. But now I fight it with all of my being. I've been thinking a lot recently about exploring psychedelics again, but I fear I will once again encounter that terrible place. My first trip was wonderful, I felt as if I was a kid again and I knew exactly what I needed to do to be successful as a loving human being. I want that again. Skip the metaphysical bullshit. I want to learn about myself more, and just avoid the freaky mind-fuckness that does no good whatsoever. Has anyone had a frightening ontological trip such as mine and continued using psychedelics to better their lives? I was thinking that maybe using a substance with less mind fuck, I would be able to explore the things I want to without encountering metaphysical crap. The obvious substance to try would be MDMA. I'd love to try 2C-B, but I've read an erowid report of someone having a bad trip similar to mine. I've heard of 2C-I being "down to earth" and that sounds so wonderful, but I still think it could go off into weirdness. Any advice or experiences would be much appreciated. Thanks.


interesting commentary on William Braden's trip report
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/lsd/bradencm.htm
Basically he thinks there is a faulty paradigm in how Westerners use psychedelics. Huxley and Braden used the same substance, and had radically different experiences. Peyote tribes always have glorious experiences.
 
It is totally possible to resume psychedelic use. A reasonable dose, good set/setting, possible "emergency parachute" (hydroxyzine/benzodiazepine/5-HT2 antagonist e.g. trazodone, antipsychotics), and the mind state that you're going to have a good time will definitely help.

Some people are predisposed to being anxious and having "bad trips" on some substances and being fine on others.
Unfortunately the one thing you will find in common with psychedelics is that "bad trips" happen with every drug, and in general the symptoms are all the same.
This is easily migitated by dose, set, and setting, however. On an average or below-average dose of most psychedelics in a supportive comfortable environment you should have a good time.
 
You have to stay comfortable if you're vulnerable to panic. Like with anything, use a low dose until you're comfortable with it, then slightly increase it. You don't run a marathon the first time you try running - you run 100 yards.
 
Hello sinisterbotanist,

Nice post and important question, probably not for many, though.

I would hate to think that what I felt that day on the beach is the truth about the whole universe. I didn't fight it at first. But now I fight it with all of my being. I've been thinking a lot recently about exploring psychedelics again, but I fear I will once again encounter that terrible place.

I know what you are talking about. The Pain and The Horror of the experience is indescribable, and the fear that it may happen again is very real. There are other threads here on Bluelight where similar experiences are described. And I myself, not on a particularly high dose of 4-AcO-DMT, have had a very similar experience. All we want is to forget it happened, but it gets more difficult as that fear fills our minds.

Here's what I did. And it worked for me and I continue taking psychedelics, over 2 years after the experience.
1. Embrace it. Fully face The Horror. What if it is indeed real? meditate upon it. Do not run from it. In fact, look actively to get that inside your mind. In time it will loose its importance [there are actually other factors involved in this process, but are out of place to discuss here] and you will stop caring about it.
2. When this is surpassed, that is when you can face It without terror, if you wish you can try again psychedelics for additional help. Also what I did, I changed substance, and on lower dosages that I knew I could take. For me it was Ayahuasca, which is deeply emotional, the last grounding nail that settled me back to earth. Ayahuasca is better than years of therapy. Just one session in an appropriate and safe setting was enough.
3. If you wish or feel the need you can now resume your psychedelic activity.

This worked for me, hope it is useful to you
 
I gradually got the insight that my me was never going to stop. Consciousness became something to be dreaded, since it was never ever going to stop.. running infinitely onward. The One that recreates itself out of nothingness just keeps going and going, and it would never ever end. There was no meaning, at all.

I've felt that way so many times on psychedelics, but without the dread. For me, the insight that there is nothing but the endless, meaningless stream of my consciousness is profoundly amusing, rather than dreadful. I kind of think: "oh man, that's all there is to it? Really?" And then I realise that I have always known that, and I laugh. I don't know why this is - I think it may be to do with the fact that I see everything as fundamentally meaningless as it is. Maybe it would be more terrifying for me to see some kind of meaning than have my belief in meaninglessness confirmed.

So for me it goes: "consciousness became something to be laughed at, since it was never going stop.. running infinitely onward... there was no meaning, at all." This laughter is usually not 'laughing out loud', it's a kind of a wry amusement, a knowing half-smile. That is the main emotion I associate with psychedelics, particularly LSD.

Sorry if that makes no sense...
 
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I think that the only reason that people think they "have fun" ingesting Psychedelics is because they are not conscious enough.

Psychedelics make you more conscious. That means you become more conscious of what is inside you and outside of you.

For meat eaters, that means being conscious of the biochemical state of an extremely terrified animal that was recently eaten. For those who don't eat meat, it means being conscious of the millions of animals slaughtered every day (660,000 animals slaughtered in the US every hour.)

You "become one with all life". And guess what most of that life is going through?

It means being conscious of a world where dishonesty, violence, and insincerity own the governments.

It means being conscious of a world where real knowledge of God is practically non-existent. (I believe that Psychedelics are the true God). A world where becoming more conscious puts you in danger of being arrested and imprisoned.

I wouldn't expect to become more conscious and "have fun".
 
Psychedelics make you more conscious.

Not "more" conscious - I wouldn't want someone on LSD driving me during a high speed car chase. They make your conscious slightly different.

It means being conscious of a world where dishonesty, violence, and insincerity own the governments.


Doesn't it give you a few hours break from worrying about those things tho?
 
Of course the universe is meaningless. Meaning can only exist in context and there is no context for the universe since it is the sum total of all things.

The reason this experience frightened you is because it strongly contradicted the model of reality that you brought to your trip. You could push it out of your mind and eventually forget it, but if you really want to get through this in a definitive way and have many enjoyable trips, you need to understand that there is no skipping the "metaphysical bullshit." It is all metaphysical bullshit. There is nothing else.
 
I wouldn't expect to become more conscious and "have fun".

Cool, you keep expanding your conciousness and becoming one with cows and I'll keep chowing down on burgers and having a blast while high on tryptamines - possibly even simultaneously.

@folding_space - well said.
 
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Of course the universe is meaningless. Meaning can only exist in context and there is no context for the universe since it is the sum total of all things.

Not if there are multiverses tho :)

And I think this universe might have a certain kind of meaning because everything in it is set up just right for life - the so-called "Goldilocks enigma".
 
^ Your first point answers your second, in a way. If there are an infinite number of universes in which every possible set of conditions exist then there must be some (in fact an infinite number) in which the conditions are just right for life. And it's only in those ones that conscious beings can muse on the fact that the conditions in their particular universe are just right for them to exist. In the others there's no one there to say "damn, the conditions here weren't quite right." It's a one in God-knows-how-many trillions shot, but there are an infinite number of chances to win.

And I am waaaaay off topic.
 
Not if there are multiverses tho :)

And I think this universe might have a certain kind of meaning because everything in it is set up just right for life - the so-called "Goldilocks enigma".
Haha. I used the word "universe" in the classical sense of "everything that exists." In any event, my point still stands. Our universe is set up just right for life because the concept of life is an aspect of human thought, which is in turn a product of the way the universe is set up. I don't see any enigmas here.
 
Of course the universe is meaningless. Meaning can only exist in context and there is no context for the universe since it is the sum total of all things.
I can't argue with that. Yet it came with an internal knowing that this meaninglessness is something to be dreaded.
The reason this experience frightened you is because it strongly contradicted the model of reality that you brought to your trip. You could push it out of your mind and eventually forget it, but if you really want to get through this in a definitive way and have many enjoyable trips, you need to understand that there is no skipping the "metaphysical bullshit." It is all metaphysical bullshit. There is nothing else.
My first trip was not metaphysical at all. The come up was a bit weird as expected, but once it evened out there was a simple sense that everything was in its right place and I felt at peace with everything. I want that again. And the colors man. I also want it to be able to better my everyday life as well. What have you done with your metaphysical bullshit? Ann Shulgin experienced the place I'm talking about, she fought it. She could not accept that it was the truth of the universe, it just couldn't be. And she got out of it and enjoyed psychedelics again. I

'm extremely jealous of the Shulgins, enjoying psychedelics with friends every so often. I want to be able to use psychedelics like the psychedelic psychotherapists used em, not finding out the secrets of the universe, but using them to better people's lives by bringing family photos, discussing experiences, and having cathartic moments. I'm sure the nature of the universe stuff is encountered but it doesn't seem important in therapeutic stuff, at least in Leo Zeff's brand. Stan Grof's therapy gets pretty deep into metaphysical stuff I believe.
I've felt that way so many times on psychedelics, but without the dread. For me, the insight that there is nothing but the endless, meaningless stream of my consciousness is profoundly amusing, rather than dreadful. I kind of think: "oh man, that's all there is to it? Really?" And then I realise that I have always known that, and I laugh. I don't know why this is - I think it may be to do with the fact that I see everything as fundamentally meaningless as it is. Maybe it would be more terrifying for me to see some kind of meaning than have my belief in meaninglessness confirmed.

So for me it goes: "consciousness became something to be laughed at, since it was never going stop.. running infinitely onward... there was no meaning, at all." This laughter is usually not 'laughing out loud', it's a kind of a wry amusement, a knowing half-smile. That is the main emotion I associate with psychedelics, particularly LSD.

Sorry if that makes no sense...
No, I know what you're talking about. I've experienced that on a mushroom trip. Everything was so silly and I've never laughed harder in my life. I don't care for it, though. Too weird. I don't want to transcend reality, I want to grow closer to it, I'm sure some of you know what I mean. That's how Jerry Garcia tripped.
Hello sinisterbotanist,

Nice post and important question, probably not for many, though.



I know what you are talking about. The Pain and The Horror of the experience is indescribable, and the fear that it may happen again is very real. There are other threads here on Bluelight where similar experiences are described. And I myself, not on a particularly high dose of 4-AcO-DMT, have had a very similar experience. All we want is to forget it happened, but it gets more difficult as that fear fills our minds.

Here's what I did. And it worked for me and I continue taking psychedelics, over 2 years after the experience.
1. Embrace it. Fully face The Horror. What if it is indeed real? meditate upon it. Do not run from it. In fact, look actively to get that inside your mind. In time it will loose its importance [there are actually other factors involved in this process, but are out of place to discuss here] and you will stop caring about it.
2. When this is surpassed, that is when you can face It without terror, if you wish you can try again psychedelics for additional help. Also what I did, I changed substance, and on lower dosages that I knew I could take. For me it was Ayahuasca, which is deeply emotional, the last grounding nail that settled me back to earth. Ayahuasca is better than years of therapy. Just one session in an appropriate and safe setting was enough.
3. If you wish or feel the need you can now resume your psychedelic activity.

This worked for me, hope it is useful to you
Thank you very much. With your ayahuasca experience, were you concerned about facing the dreadful feeling again? Were you with a guide? How did you transform? Do you think MDMA would be useful? Or a full on assault with LSD? I feel like a "full on assault" would not be useful at all..

Thank you for all of the replies so far. I did e-mail a psychologist experienced with psychedelics and he thinks that I have certain psychological resistances that would be useful to unravel.
 
Instead of lacking meaning, I prefer to think of things as having the potential to have whatever meaning we want to give them. Same basic idea but with a more positive spin to it.
 
I had a similarish experience but it was my friend who had a psychotic episode and thought he was dying when we were on a high dose of mescaline. He went to hospital and no one explained to me he would be fine, I thought he was going to die. Horrible experience but getting to the point, taking MDMA helped me a LOT, I've mostly gotten over it and it doesn't fill up with as much fear at all, venting to people helped a lot. I was thinking about a 'full on assault' with shrooms but after asking bluelight and friends, I don't think it is the smartest idea. MDMA was used for therapy and helps people with PTSD, so it seems to point in that direction. I find MDMA more insightful than psychedelics tbh.
 
i also have hit points in trips where i wasnt sure if i would be able to trip comfortably again or if i even wanted to but i have since then many times. im pretty sure i got serotonin down regulation through using excessive amounts of mdma which lead to DR/DP. shit can be very rough i had alot of same thoughts you mentioned some different, i tripped pretty frequently through my DR which made things way more delusional at times, if you dont over do it i think youd be fine. ime remaining passive in trips no matter what helps quite a bit(on a safe dose of course).

also i dont try to forget about the trips, i tell myself that they may happen again at any given time and im comfortable with that. if your already comfortable with it ime then if it ever comes along again youll be ready for it, instead of being surprised and having your wig flipped back. which i have done before, got caught with my pants down the 2nd time it happened to me.

ime you can definitely use and enjoy psychedelics again. at times i have had to switch compounds out, same with changing the dose and set/setting, and just giving myself some rest and time to recover from how i feel at the time.

also i have changed the way i approach trips many times, that helps in some situations ime.
 
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I think that the only reason that people think they "have fun" ingesting Psychedelics is because they are not conscious enough.

Psychedelics make you more conscious. That means you become more conscious of what is inside you and outside of you.

For meat eaters, that means being conscious of the biochemical state of an extremely terrified animal that was recently eaten. For those who don't eat meat, it means being conscious of the millions of animals slaughtered every day (660,000 animals slaughtered in the US every hour.)

You "become one with all life". And guess what most of that life is going through?

It means being conscious of a world where dishonesty, violence, and insincerity own the governments.

It means being conscious of a world where real knowledge of God is practically non-existent. (I believe that Psychedelics are the true God). A world where becoming more conscious puts you in danger of being arrested and imprisoned.

I wouldn't expect to become more conscious and "have fun".

You are probably not to much fun to trip with. I don't want to party with you.
 
Not "more" conscious - I wouldn't want someone on LSD driving me during a high speed car chase. They make your conscious slightly different.

They make you more conscious.

I once played pool with someone who was real drunk. He couldn't even hit the cue ball. I was beating him easily, to say the least. Then he smoked a joint of Marijuana. Now he was not only able to hit the cue ball - he started winning and then won the game.

I can understand how someone would not want to drive a car while strongly experiencing Psychedelics since you would want to be able to close your eyes, etc. But for someone who is used to driving in that kind of situation (after ingesting Psychedelics), I would think they would drive better than someone who hadn't.
 
OP, according to much Eastern Philosophy that is more or less what they believe about the nature of the Universe.

Although they consider it a beautiful thing. Like a graceful dance. If you really want to come to terms with this experience I think perhaps you should try studying about said Eastern Philosophies starting with Hindu and Buddhism.
 
Why is it all these psychedallic threads turn into "the universe" and "philosophy"? hehehehe ;)

You are probably not to much fun to trip with. I don't want to party with you.
Actually I might find that guy fun to trip with.. Seems to be awake in the pool.

studying about said Eastern Philosophies starting with Hindu and Buddhism.
Nahhhh it's a spiritual and universal thing. All languages can feel it.
Don't fear it. Embrace it. I enjoy becoming one with the universe.

Problem is, it can take it's toll on your sanity and conscious mind. Sometimes even your physical body. It's not exactly the "healthiest" or best target blast off location for everyone.
 
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