The 3-FPM Discussion Thread V2. Fumes of Fiend Fuel

[Sprout]

Get you. So even although intuitively it looks all exposed there on the 4- position, the Fluorine is so enthralled with all those electrons from the one-and-a-half bonds in the ring (you didn't seriously think they were really neatly-alternating single and double bonds, did you?) it knows which side its bread is buttered, so to speak, and isn't so likely to be persuaded to go swanning off as might a heavier halogen?

That figures.

It also makes diclazepam a tad more off-putting, knowing that a -Cl on the ring is more likely to come adrift and wreak its own brand of halogen havoc than an -F.

Oh, yeah, and when a scientist describes a mechanism of destruction as "beautiful", they don't usually mean from the point of view of whatever is on the receiving end of it .....

On the molecular level it is far from exposed, simply we use a 2-D skeletal representation of a 3-dimensional structure held in place by the opposing charges of the nuclei. The electrons are the ultimate atomic currency - supply and demand in negatively charged species donating their excess to the positively charged species and tying up all their potential energy in the bonds they form.

In the aromatic ring the 3-D nature is the most significant - the electrons aren't bound by typical pairing, rather they rise above the carbon cage and form a cloud of charge density in the Pi orbital and are held in a delocalised arrangement which is much more energetically stable.
Tacking the incredibly dense covalency of a C-F bond at a locale very few molecules can get within an atomic mile of renders it a permanent addition.

Eh, Cl- is much less energetic and reactive than F- due to the relative charge (-1) being mitigated by the massive increase in the atomic radius (35.5ish g/mol), a dense concentration of electrostatic interaction reacts much more readily than that of the electrons being distant from the protons. Besides, your cellular integrity relies on the movement of Chloride ions across chemogradients and its downstream electrochemical chain reaction (Na2+, K+ channel pumps).

Surely that relies on the afflicted not being a scientist, right? I love the elegant simplicity of chucking a metabolic hand grenade right into the nuclear reactor core under the guise of it being the enriched Uranium of an ever so slightly different shade to that which you chuck in day in, day out.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Interestingly it is the electrochemical infidelity of the minuscule nucleus and thus multiplied charge density (m/v) of Fluorine that renders it an unwavering concept of chemistry: the carbocation and the fluoride anion bind so intensely that you'd need the combined energy of every corner of Dante's Hellscape to separate them.
Thus the fluoridated amphetamines do not exhibit the monoaminergic ICBM irreversible neurotoxicity, lysis of I, Br, Cl (-C) occurs readily in-vivo and leaves the free radical ions to reduce axonal surface membranes.

Para-fluorination is oft applied to a pharmacophore if the aim is to inhibit the enzymatic metabolism responsible for digesting the molecule of interest. In particular the esterases in the liver (and occasionally in the lungs) struggle to counteract the electron withdrawal of the aromatic shell when the highly charged and compact nucleus of F sits "behind" the ring and holds onto the electrons for dear life - just look at MPH ---> 4F-MPH, potency more than tripled, active duration again tripled, exponential dose-response curve because there is no metabolism to rely on.

Odd numbered fluoroalkyl chains are bad fukkin' news though - the intermittent C-C bonds break with ease leaving Fluoroacetate to enter the cell organelles and clog up the ETC in the mitochondria due to the structural similarity with substrates in the Krebs Cycle. The ultimate and most beautiful cytotoxin mechanism.

What was the name of that substance that could completely destroy your serotonin receptors with just one dose, can you remember 'cos I can't

Obviously need to make sure i steer clear of that one. Very few vendors sell it, but one or two completely unscrupulous and irresponsible vendors do.

 

[Sprout]

What was the name of that substance that could completely destroy your serotonin receptors with just one dose, can you remember 'cos I can't

Obviously need to make sure i steer clear of that one. Very few vendors sell it, but one or two completely unscrupulous and irresponsible vendors do.

I believe you're thinking of 4-C(M)A, Para-Chloro(Meth)Amphetamine is a SERT-nuke - too close structurally to SE and DA leading to massive uncontrolled vesicular release and subsequent ROS and RNS formation. IIRC there is significant non-selective inhibition of MAO lingering long after the synapses become craters in the cortices, though the Iodinous iteration has much more significant action at MAO.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

I believe you're thinking of 4-C(M)A, Para-Chloro(Meth)Amphetamine is a SERT-nuke - too close structurally to SE and DA leading to massive uncontrolled vesicular release and subsequent ROS and RNS formation. IIRC there is significant non-selective inhibition of MAO lingering long after the synapses become craters in the cortices, though the Iodinous iteration has much more significant action at MAO.

Tbh I dont think it was that one. But the one you have mentioned is clearly another one to avoid. So cheers for posting. I'll try and find the name of that devastating RC in a bit if i cba.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Tbh I dont think it was that one. But the one you have mentioned is clearly another one to avoid. So cheers for posting. I'll try and find the name of that devastating RC in a bit if i cba.

Was it MPTP? That fuck's your dopamine receptors and causes Parkinson's.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Was it MPTP? That fuck's your dopamine receptors and causes Parkinson's.

Nope sorry. But thanks for posting another one to avoid. I'll have to find the one i was thinking of now it has generated a couple of replies.

Edit: Nope cant find it now sorry. It was from several years ago so has hopefully vanished by now.

 

[Sprout]

Nope sorry. But thanks for posting another one to avoid. I'll have to find the one i was thinking of now it has generated a couple of replies.

Edit: Nope cant find it now sorry. It was from several years ago so has hopefully vanished by now.

PCA is the quintessential selective serotonergic neurotoxin, it's used in models of anatomical and physiological damage to the brain which impair serotonin functionality.
Perhaps you're thinking of the DA destroyer that is 6-Hydroxydopamine?

 

[mydrugbuddy]

All this is great new information for me, i think it has come back to me that it was one of the Fluoronated or Halogenated Amphetamines, but i cannot remember which one.

 

[Sprout]

All this is great new information for me, i think it has come back to me that it was one of the Fluoronated Amphetamines, but i cannot remember which one.

4-FA is the one para-HaloAmp without a tendency to lobotomise the poor sod who ingests it.
And the reasoning for such makes a perfect loop back to the original discussion regarding positional halogenation.


3-FA is a massive cardiotoxin and efficacious DRA but 4-CA et al, obliterate the CNS with a lil' more vigour.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

4-FA is the one para-HaloAmp without a tendency to lobotomise the poor sod who ingests it.
And the reasoning for such makes a perfect loop back to the original discussion regarding positional halogenation.


3-FA is a massive cardiotoxin and efficacious DRA but 4-CA et al, obliterate the CNS with a lil' more vigour.

OK Cheers for the response. It must have been 3-FA that i was thinking of. But I'll certainly be avoiding 4-CA too.

 

[Ziiirp]

4-FA is the one para-HaloAmp without a tendency to lobotomise the poor sod who ingests it.
And the reasoning for such makes a perfect loop back to the original discussion regarding positional halogenation.


3-FA is a massive cardiotoxin and efficacious DRA but 4-CA et al, obliterate the CNS with a lil' more vigour.

3-FA is the best stimulant of all time. It is the uncrowned king. The comedown is super emotional, though, but it was well worth it. Could well be neuro- and cardiotoxic.

What makes you think, that 3-FA is more cardiotoxic than 3-FPM ? I have the impression, that 3-FPM is very bad on the heart. Worse than regular Amphetamine for sure.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

3-FA is the best stimulant of all time. It is the uncrowned king. The comedown is super emotional, though, but it was well worth it. Could well be neuro- and cardiotoxic.

What makes you think, that 3-FA is more cardiotoxic than 3-FPM ? I have the impression, that 3-FPM is very bad on the heart. Worse than regular Amphetamine for sure.

Now you say that im not so sure it was 3-fa that i was thinking of. It was one of the halogenated amphetamines and i cannot remember for the life of me what it was named. 8(

 

[Ziiirp]

Sorry, I quoted you instead of Sprout. Isn't there an analogue law in whole Europe now ? So in the end it all breaks down to Czech Meth.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Most of Europe has banned RCs yes. But AFAIK at least 2 European countries have no bans, and vendors which will still ship RCs to the UK. I haven't checked since the blanket ban, but i guess if customs start intercepting all the deliveries then the vendors will stop selling to the UK.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

What makes you think, that 3-FA is more cardiotoxic than 3-FPM ? I have the impression, that 3-FPM is very bad on the heart. Worse than regular Amphetamine for sure.

3-fpm never gave me that impression at all - in fact one of the main reasons I liked it (aaw, talking in past tense already) was for the total absence of perceived cardiac issues...

 

[Ziiirp]

Hmm, must be the 3-FA from 4 years ago, then.

 

[Ziiirp]

Most of Europe has banned RCs yes. But AFAIK at least 2 European countries have no bans, and vendors which will still ship RCs to the UK. I haven't checked since the blanket ban, but i guess if customs start intercepting all the deliveries then the vendors will stop selling to the UK.

Holland and Portugal ? People actually have some sanity left, there.

 

[One Thousand Words]

From experience the Dutch are annoyingly crazy fuckers

 

[BecomingJulie]

I think the Dutch just have a good sense of separation between "one's own business" and "other people's business" -- and consider what others think of them none of their business.

We British used to be like that, not so long ago. Now it's all about conforming to the same artificial ideals .....

 

[Ziiirp]

Gotta love the Oranje. Even as a sober child I loved it there. Not just Amsterdam, which is awesome. Plus the language is hilarious.