Methamphetanonymous
Bluelighter
<Authors note: I feel this warrants it's own thread, as it is offering a consolidated walk through prior theories while offering both new and common perspectives in an easily searchable topic. This information is uniquely beneficial I feel but move if mods disagree>
A letter in response to correspondence to me; opened on June 14th 2024 response date Oct 27th 2024:
Hey [friendly correspant], its methamphetanonymous
Firstly I'd like to apologize for the unreasonable delay in prolonging our discussion. Life got in the way as it tends to do, and I felt there were actions I could take on my own that may help lubricate the discussion so we don't continue parroting 'I DUNNO' back and forth with no action taken.
I've made quite a bit of progress since we last corresponded. I've [come into ownership this summer of several samples of both confirmed racemic and enantiomically pure meth, brought to be from each one of the three major precursor materials to conduct some subjective experiments for my curiosity. I no longer possess any samples of illicit drug nor equipment used to study them]
As I've watched the cartels activities via arrest data and seizure data globally (as well as running some various tolerance testing on myself via different ROAs) I've concluded with as much confidence as a random amateur investigative journalist can that the issue we've been discussing regarding meth's recent mysterious and subjectively undesirable effects on users is due to one of a couple of the following phenomena:
1. Tolerance. Yeah, tired argument but it held true once again when others have failed; even with the ephedra bush alkaloids as the starting material. Meth simply isn't that great to use heavily over the course of several days... even if one sleeps the quality is poor and sleep debt is accumulated none-theless. After multiple test of two weeks daily use followed by two weeks of a tolerance break, I found I could return to oral doses as low as 20mg and achieve an obvious and potent therapeutic benefit. Once the pipe came out though, I would quickly find myself overamphing by accidentally underestimating my intake. These unpleasant effects I've concluded are the result of dextromethamphetamine alone.
The only human trial comparing the two enantiomers and a racemic product demonstrated that the dextrorotary isomer was subjectively noted to have an identical onset rush to the levorotary isomer that was pleasurable, but followed by a strong motivational sense of wellbeing and productivity which persisted several hours.
After the initial adrenal burst of euphoria no doubt due to both enantiomers very potent norepinepherine binding affinities, L-meth was reported to rapidly taper off into simply wakeful residual stimulations within one to two hours. Makes sense given that L-meth has a very poor dopamine binding affinity compared to the monstrous flood that d-meth induces
What's interesting however is cardiovascular stress testing; specifically heart rate and blood pressure revealed undeniably that d-meth causes greater physical strain and likely vasoconstriction than L-meth. In every single metric L-meth is simply weaker than D-meth; MUCH weaker on dopamine, a notable bit weaker on norepinephrine, and serotonin is not even noteworthy whatsoever despite dubious speculation (review the affinity data, the serotonin release is unremarkable likely even in higher end doses though perhaps at dangerous dosages via IV it could alter effects some... I still find it unlikely one would notice with that degree of tolerance however.)
The racemic mixture scored identical in subjective positive effects and duration as d-meth, and interestingly its effect on heart rate and blood pressure was essentially identical, This supports my initial suspicious that no amount of L-meth less than or equal to a 50% racemate sample would impact the subjective experience of methamphetamine in a meaningful way. Perhaps a racemate would be noticeably milder to a seasoned pro consuming again quite large doses via IV, but we don't see racemic meth on the streets to even wander too far down that road. What we see with dominating consistency is test results indicating a near universal supply of enantiomerically pure d-meth with trace compositions of l-meth and other synth byproducts being bought and sold on the street.
Speaking of; I kept the possibility of byproduct reactant materials, specifically the two amphetamines mentioned in the Bluelight post you referenced, as a possibility in my mind. It can't be definitively ruled out but it simply isn't an answer that's needed to satisfy the question of methamphetamine's supposed 'change'.
In the 1990s and 2000s the landscape of meth was typically a 'cook' synthesizing a few ounces of ephedra alkaloid precursor reduced d-meth for their block or small town at maximum. A [Chemists name] Reduction, and the numerous [Alternate pseudoephedrine reduction] routes coined by Dr. Nagai in the early 1900s are not viable for industrial scale production. The waste products like [toxic and smelly] gas and [toxic and smelly other] gas are too toxic or too pungent of a smell to work in a setting like a Walter White superlab not to mention aquiring storing and handling mass quantities of [super cold highly reactant and deadly liquid] would be a suicide mission. Thus, supply was much less abundant and much less consistent day to day as it is today with dissolved freebase meth oil pouring across the border by the gallon and finished product by the hundreds of tons daily.
Methamphetamines street price via the DEA website was between [High for a street drug] a gram regionally at minimum between 1990-2005 when Pseudo was regulated to quantity limits... today I have been able to purchase an 8th of an ounce of high purity product for [Equal to 90s gram cost USD] or less in the Midwest Great Lakes region. I have heard tale of entire ounces being sold for [Merely double the 90s cost per gram] in border states. It would seem then to me that a meth user was far more conservative with their supply, stretching their tolerance farther. I tested this theory, and was indeed able to make 1 gram of methamphetamine last me two weeks and four days using daily and at a dosage that was enjoyable and caused me to suffer insomnia at times. Next I tested this theory using an 8th of an ounce and paid no mind to frugality... the 8th lasted me three weeks, ROA smoking on both trials. Open and shut to my eye.
2. Just bullshit. People just be lying on Reddit. They lie about staying up simply smoking for five days straight and finding it enjoyable, or saying crazy shit about nodding off after one hit with no tolerance. Ridiculous, A large group of seemingly intercommunicating individuals make it a point to spread disinformation likely to run Telegram Scams for their fresh batch of Missouri [Synthesis nickname]. I dismiss any accounts that are new, have a throwaway name, or whom claim physiological impossibilities, so a majority of them.
3. (Warning, some chemicals named in order to avoid confusion. Nowhere near enough info to take and do home experiments however THESE ARE ALL WATCHED OR REGULATED DO NOT ATTEMPT AQUISITION) Synthesis south of the border actually does vary quite a bit. Seizures indicate robust supply of ephedrine and pseudoephedrine powder entering Mexico from Guatemala, as well as raw P2P liquid from clandestine factories in India. Straight from precursor synthesis still occurs in Mexico and is likely moved into the states. Data does suggest that the nitrostyrene synthesis route we discussed is still in play as well with materials being seized to conduct that somewhat dirty process. But also being seized are imports of... glacial acetic acid and other one step pre-precursors for a less complex route which does not produce the amphetamine byproducts mentioned on Bluelight.
Many do not understand or choose not to understand that the Narcos are not a monolith despite Sinaloa dominance. They keep a decentralized network, and most laboratories in Mexico are operated independently using supplies provided by major and minor groups, Their yield is then sold wholesale to the Narcos, who smuggle it into the US and charge a modest premium which still nets them billions USD a week. It seems reasonable to presume then, that quality and synthesis by-products could vary to a small but observable degree that a user may notice as slightly different physical characteristics some desirable some not.
(One thing I did not in my experiments is that the addition of a teeny tiny amount of water caused certain phenomena often parroted online like the crystallization pattern in the bowl taking on pinwheel shapes, darkening to brown rapidly, or boiling and running upwards away from the flame and against gravity. It also produced a noticeably more minerally or chemically taste depending on the batch. Drying with a simple silica gel packet overnight resolved all of these issues with consistency)
I don't believe there is anything remarkably unsafe or low potency/purity surrounding the meth produced in Mexican super labs. Many do not realize mass produced P2P meth from Mexico has been a heavy portion of the nations drug supply since the 1970s. Not much has changed except stepping backwards to synthesizing precursors and pre-precursors from unregulated and unwatched chemicals until the Federales catches on. I don't see a remarkable amount of evidence that most meth users in the 1990s or 2000s were regularly receiving domestically synthesized meth from a PFED reduction... it certainly was far more prevalent than it is today however at no point were these reactions particularly easy for your average meth addict to perform and achieve high purity/yields. Both PFED reductions are fickle and prone to under or over reduction if the reactant chemicals and precursor are not precisely measured to molar units... likely cooks were lazy, paranoia, stressed, tired, psychotic and would be forgiven for seeking and exploiting short cuts at the expense of poorer yield or poorer purity product. Reductive amination of P2P; (provided one has the equipment chemicals needed) is a much more certain investment when considering returning yields per starting expense spent. Data 100% backs up my assumption, showing some pretty abysmal purity/potency test results from seized street product in the 90s-00s by todays standard of 90% or greater street quality.
Couple this with the fact that meth which sells for [Super high 90s-00s price] a gram like in the 90s-00s is FAR more lucrative to cut than a [Quarter of the price] gram one can expect today.
Spiking a yield with 25% MSM crystals likely wouldn't be terribly noticeable (Or there was no competition to offer better) and would net a street dealer or 'cook' a 25% $ in pocket return for a cheap vitamin one could buy in bulk. Why risk business spiking a [Quarter of the cost] modern gram by 25% for a measly [single digit] or so dollars in the pocket?
The marijuana black market in my state before legalization was a similar price per gram(as today's meth) through the mid 2010s... and rarely would one find that their weed was cut with some inert plant (aside from urban legends of oregano bags). May not even be worth buying bulk MSM at that return, just play the supply and demand game when competing with other local dealers; certainly it would be ridiculously unlike that street level cutting is more common today that during the last so called "epidemic".
Finally fancy high powered torches and hotrailing grams at a time just was not really a widespread method of smoking or insufflating in the 90s and 00s. Today, people who see meth 'influencers' with torches and hot glass cylinders follow suit, overamph, blame levo-meth for the expected and predictable peripheral discomfort that pure dextrometh induces at overdose levels, and then blame N-isopropylbenzylamine or benzlamphetamine or whatever for the fact that they start falling asleep at all doses of meth given that they have an unmanageable tolerance and fully depleted neurotransmitter stores.
And thank you for bringing up my arch nemisis Sam Quinos's(who still has not responded to my emails for comment) garbage and abhorrent piece of hack journalism in 'The Atlantic' titled 'The New Meth' which gives no evidence that would run contrary to the tolerance, abundancy, purity, and usage habits theories.
In fact at risk of a rant he offers no evidence at all substantiating his assertion that P2P synthesis is anything newer than half a century of practice (it isn't new), or that methamphetamine can be appreciably linked to the homeless tent city phenomenon in place of the established theory that income inequality is to blame in high cost of living regions. Are more low income or houseless people experiencing psychosis? Sure, that cock they sucked in the 90s for a gram is getting them a quarter ounce now and theyre spending all day cooking their core body temperature in Skid Row and smoking bowl after bowl.
Meth is a dirt cheap drug today, it's cheaper than dispensary distributed and regulated marijuana here in my state. No shit the folks who have reason to fear falling asleep in a hostile society are staying up for days on end and going mad.
I hope this explanation of my theories is suitably detailed for any questions you may have and also of casual enough tone to be shared with your interested parties; I also hope that I've sufficiently concluded that no explanation beyond the obvious changes to the meth landscape in the last two decades need be entertained by sharing my findings from personal experimentation, data gathering, and societal observations/confirmation.
I hope you're having a lovely day, and that you are enjoying this beautiful gradient of fall shades thats been extended by the unseasonably warm weather. I enjoyed a beautiful drive across the prairie to meet a collaborator of the book yesterday.
Be well - Methamphetanonymous
A letter in response to correspondence to me; opened on June 14th 2024 response date Oct 27th 2024:
Hey [friendly correspant], its methamphetanonymous
Firstly I'd like to apologize for the unreasonable delay in prolonging our discussion. Life got in the way as it tends to do, and I felt there were actions I could take on my own that may help lubricate the discussion so we don't continue parroting 'I DUNNO' back and forth with no action taken.
I've made quite a bit of progress since we last corresponded. I've [come into ownership this summer of several samples of both confirmed racemic and enantiomically pure meth, brought to be from each one of the three major precursor materials to conduct some subjective experiments for my curiosity. I no longer possess any samples of illicit drug nor equipment used to study them]
As I've watched the cartels activities via arrest data and seizure data globally (as well as running some various tolerance testing on myself via different ROAs) I've concluded with as much confidence as a random amateur investigative journalist can that the issue we've been discussing regarding meth's recent mysterious and subjectively undesirable effects on users is due to one of a couple of the following phenomena:
1. Tolerance. Yeah, tired argument but it held true once again when others have failed; even with the ephedra bush alkaloids as the starting material. Meth simply isn't that great to use heavily over the course of several days... even if one sleeps the quality is poor and sleep debt is accumulated none-theless. After multiple test of two weeks daily use followed by two weeks of a tolerance break, I found I could return to oral doses as low as 20mg and achieve an obvious and potent therapeutic benefit. Once the pipe came out though, I would quickly find myself overamphing by accidentally underestimating my intake. These unpleasant effects I've concluded are the result of dextromethamphetamine alone.
The only human trial comparing the two enantiomers and a racemic product demonstrated that the dextrorotary isomer was subjectively noted to have an identical onset rush to the levorotary isomer that was pleasurable, but followed by a strong motivational sense of wellbeing and productivity which persisted several hours.
After the initial adrenal burst of euphoria no doubt due to both enantiomers very potent norepinepherine binding affinities, L-meth was reported to rapidly taper off into simply wakeful residual stimulations within one to two hours. Makes sense given that L-meth has a very poor dopamine binding affinity compared to the monstrous flood that d-meth induces
What's interesting however is cardiovascular stress testing; specifically heart rate and blood pressure revealed undeniably that d-meth causes greater physical strain and likely vasoconstriction than L-meth. In every single metric L-meth is simply weaker than D-meth; MUCH weaker on dopamine, a notable bit weaker on norepinephrine, and serotonin is not even noteworthy whatsoever despite dubious speculation (review the affinity data, the serotonin release is unremarkable likely even in higher end doses though perhaps at dangerous dosages via IV it could alter effects some... I still find it unlikely one would notice with that degree of tolerance however.)
The racemic mixture scored identical in subjective positive effects and duration as d-meth, and interestingly its effect on heart rate and blood pressure was essentially identical, This supports my initial suspicious that no amount of L-meth less than or equal to a 50% racemate sample would impact the subjective experience of methamphetamine in a meaningful way. Perhaps a racemate would be noticeably milder to a seasoned pro consuming again quite large doses via IV, but we don't see racemic meth on the streets to even wander too far down that road. What we see with dominating consistency is test results indicating a near universal supply of enantiomerically pure d-meth with trace compositions of l-meth and other synth byproducts being bought and sold on the street.
Speaking of; I kept the possibility of byproduct reactant materials, specifically the two amphetamines mentioned in the Bluelight post you referenced, as a possibility in my mind. It can't be definitively ruled out but it simply isn't an answer that's needed to satisfy the question of methamphetamine's supposed 'change'.
In the 1990s and 2000s the landscape of meth was typically a 'cook' synthesizing a few ounces of ephedra alkaloid precursor reduced d-meth for their block or small town at maximum. A [Chemists name] Reduction, and the numerous [Alternate pseudoephedrine reduction] routes coined by Dr. Nagai in the early 1900s are not viable for industrial scale production. The waste products like [toxic and smelly] gas and [toxic and smelly other] gas are too toxic or too pungent of a smell to work in a setting like a Walter White superlab not to mention aquiring storing and handling mass quantities of [super cold highly reactant and deadly liquid] would be a suicide mission. Thus, supply was much less abundant and much less consistent day to day as it is today with dissolved freebase meth oil pouring across the border by the gallon and finished product by the hundreds of tons daily.
Methamphetamines street price via the DEA website was between [High for a street drug] a gram regionally at minimum between 1990-2005 when Pseudo was regulated to quantity limits... today I have been able to purchase an 8th of an ounce of high purity product for [Equal to 90s gram cost USD] or less in the Midwest Great Lakes region. I have heard tale of entire ounces being sold for [Merely double the 90s cost per gram] in border states. It would seem then to me that a meth user was far more conservative with their supply, stretching their tolerance farther. I tested this theory, and was indeed able to make 1 gram of methamphetamine last me two weeks and four days using daily and at a dosage that was enjoyable and caused me to suffer insomnia at times. Next I tested this theory using an 8th of an ounce and paid no mind to frugality... the 8th lasted me three weeks, ROA smoking on both trials. Open and shut to my eye.
2. Just bullshit. People just be lying on Reddit. They lie about staying up simply smoking for five days straight and finding it enjoyable, or saying crazy shit about nodding off after one hit with no tolerance. Ridiculous, A large group of seemingly intercommunicating individuals make it a point to spread disinformation likely to run Telegram Scams for their fresh batch of Missouri [Synthesis nickname]. I dismiss any accounts that are new, have a throwaway name, or whom claim physiological impossibilities, so a majority of them.
3. (Warning, some chemicals named in order to avoid confusion. Nowhere near enough info to take and do home experiments however THESE ARE ALL WATCHED OR REGULATED DO NOT ATTEMPT AQUISITION) Synthesis south of the border actually does vary quite a bit. Seizures indicate robust supply of ephedrine and pseudoephedrine powder entering Mexico from Guatemala, as well as raw P2P liquid from clandestine factories in India. Straight from precursor synthesis still occurs in Mexico and is likely moved into the states. Data does suggest that the nitrostyrene synthesis route we discussed is still in play as well with materials being seized to conduct that somewhat dirty process. But also being seized are imports of... glacial acetic acid and other one step pre-precursors for a less complex route which does not produce the amphetamine byproducts mentioned on Bluelight.
Many do not understand or choose not to understand that the Narcos are not a monolith despite Sinaloa dominance. They keep a decentralized network, and most laboratories in Mexico are operated independently using supplies provided by major and minor groups, Their yield is then sold wholesale to the Narcos, who smuggle it into the US and charge a modest premium which still nets them billions USD a week. It seems reasonable to presume then, that quality and synthesis by-products could vary to a small but observable degree that a user may notice as slightly different physical characteristics some desirable some not.
(One thing I did not in my experiments is that the addition of a teeny tiny amount of water caused certain phenomena often parroted online like the crystallization pattern in the bowl taking on pinwheel shapes, darkening to brown rapidly, or boiling and running upwards away from the flame and against gravity. It also produced a noticeably more minerally or chemically taste depending on the batch. Drying with a simple silica gel packet overnight resolved all of these issues with consistency)
I don't believe there is anything remarkably unsafe or low potency/purity surrounding the meth produced in Mexican super labs. Many do not realize mass produced P2P meth from Mexico has been a heavy portion of the nations drug supply since the 1970s. Not much has changed except stepping backwards to synthesizing precursors and pre-precursors from unregulated and unwatched chemicals until the Federales catches on. I don't see a remarkable amount of evidence that most meth users in the 1990s or 2000s were regularly receiving domestically synthesized meth from a PFED reduction... it certainly was far more prevalent than it is today however at no point were these reactions particularly easy for your average meth addict to perform and achieve high purity/yields. Both PFED reductions are fickle and prone to under or over reduction if the reactant chemicals and precursor are not precisely measured to molar units... likely cooks were lazy, paranoia, stressed, tired, psychotic and would be forgiven for seeking and exploiting short cuts at the expense of poorer yield or poorer purity product. Reductive amination of P2P; (provided one has the equipment chemicals needed) is a much more certain investment when considering returning yields per starting expense spent. Data 100% backs up my assumption, showing some pretty abysmal purity/potency test results from seized street product in the 90s-00s by todays standard of 90% or greater street quality.
Couple this with the fact that meth which sells for [Super high 90s-00s price] a gram like in the 90s-00s is FAR more lucrative to cut than a [Quarter of the price] gram one can expect today.
Spiking a yield with 25% MSM crystals likely wouldn't be terribly noticeable (Or there was no competition to offer better) and would net a street dealer or 'cook' a 25% $ in pocket return for a cheap vitamin one could buy in bulk. Why risk business spiking a [Quarter of the cost] modern gram by 25% for a measly [single digit] or so dollars in the pocket?
The marijuana black market in my state before legalization was a similar price per gram(as today's meth) through the mid 2010s... and rarely would one find that their weed was cut with some inert plant (aside from urban legends of oregano bags). May not even be worth buying bulk MSM at that return, just play the supply and demand game when competing with other local dealers; certainly it would be ridiculously unlike that street level cutting is more common today that during the last so called "epidemic".
Finally fancy high powered torches and hotrailing grams at a time just was not really a widespread method of smoking or insufflating in the 90s and 00s. Today, people who see meth 'influencers' with torches and hot glass cylinders follow suit, overamph, blame levo-meth for the expected and predictable peripheral discomfort that pure dextrometh induces at overdose levels, and then blame N-isopropylbenzylamine or benzlamphetamine or whatever for the fact that they start falling asleep at all doses of meth given that they have an unmanageable tolerance and fully depleted neurotransmitter stores.
And thank you for bringing up my arch nemisis Sam Quinos's(who still has not responded to my emails for comment) garbage and abhorrent piece of hack journalism in 'The Atlantic' titled 'The New Meth' which gives no evidence that would run contrary to the tolerance, abundancy, purity, and usage habits theories.
In fact at risk of a rant he offers no evidence at all substantiating his assertion that P2P synthesis is anything newer than half a century of practice (it isn't new), or that methamphetamine can be appreciably linked to the homeless tent city phenomenon in place of the established theory that income inequality is to blame in high cost of living regions. Are more low income or houseless people experiencing psychosis? Sure, that cock they sucked in the 90s for a gram is getting them a quarter ounce now and theyre spending all day cooking their core body temperature in Skid Row and smoking bowl after bowl.
Meth is a dirt cheap drug today, it's cheaper than dispensary distributed and regulated marijuana here in my state. No shit the folks who have reason to fear falling asleep in a hostile society are staying up for days on end and going mad.
I hope this explanation of my theories is suitably detailed for any questions you may have and also of casual enough tone to be shared with your interested parties; I also hope that I've sufficiently concluded that no explanation beyond the obvious changes to the meth landscape in the last two decades need be entertained by sharing my findings from personal experimentation, data gathering, and societal observations/confirmation.
I hope you're having a lovely day, and that you are enjoying this beautiful gradient of fall shades thats been extended by the unseasonably warm weather. I enjoyed a beautiful drive across the prairie to meet a collaborator of the book yesterday.
Be well - Methamphetanonymous
