Recovery The 2023 Recovery Thread

[Jnowhere]

Frog dreams: why did you go to AA? Were you forced by the courts for a DUI, or someone urged you. If you went of your own volition then of course they said that. I quit without AA, I became allergic after I nearly died. Read their books and understand who they are. They are how they are. If you don't like it don't go. They will not suddenly change because some guy, has different ideas. They are who they are take or leave it
I never went back, I went to at least one meeting and couldn't wait to leave. It wasn't for me. AA has two main books and principals and rules and beliefs that has worked for millions. But it wasn't for me.
Fine, your not an alcoholic, go 90 days without any alcohol. Can you? OK 60 days, OK 30 days. Then also go without any recreational drugs. Can you, ok then do it!
Recovery is not about getting wasted and high in moderation, it is about quitting!

 

[Frog Dreams]

I just did over 370 days without alcohol.

People have challenged me about every substance and I have proved them wrong.

I also did a long stretch of time eating only uncooked organic non-sentient foodstuff.

Maybe your recovery is about quitting... But, not mine.

I do not resign myself to my "powerlessness".

...

I went to AA for numerous reasons. Part of it was a legal ploy. Part of it was curiosity. Nonetheless: my heart was open to the experience.

They shouldn't force people to praise God. Clearly that's a no-brainer. It's specific to Christianity, so it's blatant discrimination. Same as missionaries.

We will help you if you join our church.

Help should be universal not conditional.

The organization is corrupt (in the eyes of God).

 

[Frog Dreams]

@Shady's Fox

I am perfectly relaxed.

 

[Jnowhere]

Then why fuck did you go to an AA meeting? I do believe that it stands for Alcoholics Anonymous! It is for people who want to quit forever! It is not an organization built on making people feel ok about their drinking and drug use, (recreational). I went and man I was like this ain't for me! This is an organization built to help people who are alcoholics and want help! I went when I was 21 and was like fuck this. Now I have cirrhosis of the liver and pancreas problems.
The world does not revolve around you. They are who they are. That will not change, but hopefully you will. Obviously substance abuse has affected you; or you would not care about recovery. Real Recovery is not about making your own set of rules. It is about change and quitting. Leading a life without drinking or using recreational drugs!
If you don't have a problem, why are you trying recovery, you just want it on your own terms. You seek help and then your anger and defiance clearly shows you know you have problems.

 

[Frog Dreams]

There is no anger. You are adding that to my words.

I am trying to help, because it didn't help me for people to tell me things like this for years:

Real Recovery is not about making your own set of rules. It is about change and quitting. Leading a life without drinking or using recreational drugs!

Heroin is not the same as LSD.

LSD makes me a better father. It makes me happy. It makes me connected to the world around me.

5-MEO-DMT has healed me so much, I don't even know where to begin describing it.

I was miserable when I was quitting everything all the time.

Heroin is a bad drug. LSD is not.

All recreation is not negative.

I went to AA for numerous reasons, as I've already stated.

I don't think the world revolves around me anymore than you do.

If you don't have a problem, why are you trying recovery, you just want it on your own terms.

Part of my recovery is accepting myself in my entirety. Admitting that I don't have a problem is a huge relief for me. Acceptance is a beautiful thing.

Most of my hard drug use has been a result of me digging in my heels because I thought I had to quit everything.

I don't smoke marijuana because it's bad for my throat and my lungs. I eat it. That is part of my recovery.

Moderation is key. There is a way to safely use drugs.

I can recover from a state of unsafe use. I don't have to quit everything forever. That is shame. I don't believe in that.

I'm not saying this is your path. It's mine. There is no reason to let it upset you.

 

[Jnowhere]

I'm sorry about the f-word, you can handle LSD but not a naughty word or two; Sorry, but I will punctuate as I please! Just like you go to AA meetings and expect them to change for you.
You obviously have an addictive personality, so do I. LSD is not heroin. Where did that come from? Where you addicted to heroin?
What else? You can rationalize all you want, but you obviously can't survive without mind altering substances. You are not interested in Recovery, you just like getting twatted( Thank you elgoucho9) I love British slang.
Dropping acid, eating Marijuana and drinking beer and Sambuca is not recovery, it is getting twatted.

 

[Jnowhere]

Hold it you admitted to being an alcoholic in a previous post along with like 8 other addictions, and a poly drug junkie.
Once an alcoholic, always one. I can't get the stuff down and if I do my body itches like crazy so?( don't want to use any naughty words or Frog Dreams will narc on me again)

 

[Frog Dreams]

you obviously can't survive without mind altering substances. You are not interested in Recovery, you just like getting twatted

With all due respect, you don't know me.

I didn't have weed for two weeks until the other day.
I wasn't consuming anything during that period.

I am perfectly fine without things.
In fact, I am blissfully happy.

I am doing another bufo ceremony in a couple of weeks. Need to fully detox prior to the ceremony and for at least a week afterwards. I have been doing this all year.

Where did that come from? Where you addicted to heroin?

Yes.

What else?

I've been: a heroin addict, a methadone addict, a DXM addict, a nicotine addict, a marijuana addict, a mushroom addict, a meth addict, a benzo addict, an alcoholic and a poly-drug junkie.

I'm sure I've missed at least a couple of recreational drugs there.
I suspect I've had more drugs than Hunter S Thompson.

I'm not hiding anything.

I'm sorry about the f-word, you can handle LSD but not a naughty word or two

I'm not offended or triggered by your use of language. My point is: you're calling me angry and you're swearing and using exclamation marks.

You're also telling me what I think. I don't think I'm doing any of that with you?

Dropping acid, eating Marijuana and drinking beer and Sambuca is not recovery, it is getting twatted.

Yes, it is. I never said otherwise.

The distinction I made is this: people can talk about getting twatted (in AA meetings and here) in a certain way. We can talk about relapse as long as we regret it. We can talk about drug use as long as we insist that we must stop everything forever.

I am not talking about getting twatted more than others. I'm not ashamed of it. I own it. I'm not afraid of myself. That - I think? - is the difference.

Hold it you admitted to being an alcoholic in a previous post along with like 8 other addictions, and a poly drug junkie.
Once an alcoholic, always one.

Disagree. There is no such thing as alcoholism IMO.

( don't want to use any naughty words or Frog Dreams will narc on me again)

I didn't narc on you.
What on earth are you talking about?

 

[Frog Dreams]

I'm going to stop posting in this thread because the same thing is happening that happened in AA. I want recovery support but that's not going to happen here. I'm just going to disrupt other people's recovery, it seems, and create arguments. That's not at all what I wanted to do when I attended AA. It's not at all what I wanted to do here.

If my honest opinions are going to upset people ITT, I will keep them to myself.

Good luck everyone.

God speed.

EDIT. If anyone would like to respond to anything I've said, please do it via the messaging system.
If you reply in this thread, I will reply to you via direct messaging.

 

[thatmf]

thatmf: I guess you live in somewhere other than America. But what I said is true about young, female and Asian doctors. I have no bigotry in my heart only reality. And what my family and I had experienced. Wasted time and gas. Find a better doctor, a male over 50.
And the female doctor is proof. Where ever you live and what ever the system is, find someone who cares, if that is possible, and get something that helps, preferably a benzo with a long half life, and use them sparingly.
Clonidine for severe anxiety, that is like a bad joke. But long term benzo use, is something I regret. I truly hope and pray you get someone who will help you and give you something that will help your anxiety. You should be careful with them and take them properly and preferably short term. Anxiety can be managed and it can also cause many problems, untreated.

Thanks for the input and your kindness. You're not the first person to tell me to find a new doctor ;P

 

[thatmf]

There is no anger. You are adding that to my words.

I am trying to help, because it didn't help me for people to tell me things like this for years:



Heroin is not the same as LSD.

LSD makes me a better father. It makes me happy. It makes me connected to the world around me.

5-MEO-DMT has healed me so much, I don't even know where to begin describing it.

I was miserable when I was quitting everything all the time.

Heroin is a bad drug. LSD is not.

All recreation is not negative.

I went to AA for numerous reasons, as I've already stated.

I don't think the world revolves around me anymore than you do.



Part of my recovery is accepting myself in my entirety. Admitting that I don't have a problem is a huge relief for me. Acceptance is a beautiful thing.

Most of my hard drug use has been a result of me digging in my heels because I thought I had to quit everything.

I don't smoke marijuana because it's bad for my throat and my lungs. I eat it. That is part of my recovery.

Moderation is key. There is a way to safely use drugs.

I can recover from a state of unsafe use. I don't have to quit everything forever. That is shame. I don't believe in that.

I'm not saying this is your path. It's mine. There is no reason to let it upset you.

Look, there's some things people can't handle in "moderation". With some drugs there's no in-between. If you have an addictive personality, one x of y can set you down a very bad path. You can preach moderation sure, and I'm not saying LSD and DMT can't be helpful, but they have never helped me in any way. Maybe a few days afterglow or peace or whatever. But I wouldn't go as far as encouraging either in recovery.

 

[Ds]

We each have different experiences, obviously.

I've been to numerous different meetings - in different suburbs - and they were all awful (for me).

I was told I had to praise God. I refused. I wasn't ready to call myself an alcoholic. I was mocked for both of these things.

AA teaches people that they have no control, but we do have control.

Upon meeting me for the first time, they all tried to convince me that I was an alcoholic. An entire group of people thought it was laughable that I might recover one day and learn to moderate my use. No. I have to never drink again. I have to be afraid of drinking. I have a disease... Why? Because everyone is an alcoholic? Or because they are desperately trying to convince that everyone is powerless?

Nobody is powerless. I don't care if it works (to some extent) to teach people that. It's not true.

I 100% do not believe in the AA approach.

Agree to disagree.

...

Seems like this thread (like AA) provides a particular type of recovery support.

Says the guy that when they wake up they take a sip of alcohol & yet weeks sober from booze.
Oh how'd you stay sober? One might ask.
Oh easy, I just took a drink before I start my sober clock.
No wonder, you probably got laughed at while at the AA meetings & if you shared that shit then they probably asked you to take that shit elsewhere.
People like you make others think that AA is some brainwashing cult & I guess learning a few steps and being welcomed by people is just a shit thing for you?

 

[elgoucho9]

Alcohol is a bigger gateway drug than weed IMO. Like if i get properly pissed up, then i experience cravings for other drugs such as stimulants to perk me up. I know from conversations with friends local, i'm far from the only one who experiences this.

My boozing was every bit as bad for me as consuming heroin. The only drug i'd rank as worse than either of those is crack cocaine. But that's me personally, crack has been the most destructive drug to my life. Lost everything to it, heroin i could always take it or leave it.

Since i've been clean of both i've been getting back into my hobbies such as weight training and general fitness. Gone from 70kg malnourished crack head, using white, brown and alcohol every day. A tonne of benzos. And generally behaving like a horrible bastard, mostly cos i was hurting but did things that when i sobered up i am seriously ashamed of, such as robbing users, dealers, stealing, violence. That's me just being honest and i fully accept as an addict i was certainly not a good person. I hurt everyone around me, caused people who care nothing but worry and disappointment. In the end i couldn't even look myself in the mirror for what i'd become.

The silver lining is i recognise all of it. And i do not want to be that person any more. I've spent the last 2 months working on myself. Made the tough decison to cut off all drug related contacts, even the ones i liked.

If you are serious about getting clean it really isn't easy. You have to be willing to accept you will have to suffer. There will be lots of bad days. It will be lonely. But the crux of it all is you have to both focus on yourself and your own progression, do things that will help you progress even when you don't feel like it. And accept you will have to change as a person and cut off any friends who you like even, if there is potential they might drag you back in. Like i say it's a lonely process, but you have to focus on sorting yourself and your own behaviour patterns as number 1 priority. If you don't do that and continue to hang about in the same circles it's doomed to failure from the get go. There is more to life than drugs. And being an addict you are merely existing, there is a whole world out there you are missing out on due to the one track mind addiction often causes.

 

[Jnowhere]

Well someone bitched and there was some letter about me using the f word and exclamation points. If it wasn't you then someone else.
Frog Dreams, I am truly sorry if it wasn't you.
The real point is you have anger towards AA because you think that they should conform to you. They have a set plan on recovery and sobriety, they even have it their books.
All those addictions and continued use mean you have no desire for sobriety, recovery. I see in you as a troubled person who is trying to justify your drug and alcohol abuse.
I cannot write anything close to as great as what, elgoucho9, posted
He put it so well, I was a different person when I drank and It could have easily opened the door to other drugs. But like George Thorogood said, I drink alone. Not always but I did prefer to drink alone, which probably kept me from other stuff. Because when I was drinking with others, I was open to messing with other things. Luckily that only happened a few times.
Ds also made some absolutely great points
Some people in my country, have to go to AA because of a DUI or other legal trouble involving booze, many times to avoid jail, or as part of probation or plea deal.
Also, AA, doesn't go around abducting people and forcing them to their meetings. You went their and expected them to change or accept your ridiculous ideas on recovery.
You need help, not people conforming to and reinforcing your drug and alcohol use
or what you think recovery is. I admit I have had problems and know how a person who uses thinks. And it ain't about true recovery and sobriety.

 

[Jnowhere]

You want recovery support, that means people telling you to stop using and trying to help you stay sober. Recovery is not moderation for a person with an addictive personality.
Believe it or not but I hope and pray that you get sober and realize that you can't do drugs and alcohol to recover from your long list of addictions to drugs and alcohol.

 

[kiely]

But the user is amazingly good with drug usage, like skilled. And that's a good. Right.
But it's just not good right here. M'Irite ?
We have to use the skills we have acquired and use them wisely.
I hope the user can find a way to use strengths as wisely as possible and continue to help
out as well. NIce. Right User ? Please be nice my head just started to get better.

 

[kiely]

 

[elgoucho9]

@Frog Dreams i agree certain psyches can be healing. However you are still drinking man. Then posting saying you did LSD drank 8 beers and a full bottle of sambuca. Yet you claim to be an alcoholic in recovery.

So the reason you are getting grief from everyone in this thread is that is not the signs or behavior patterns of someone who wants to get clean. You are still using alcohol yet claim to be an alcoholic. It's boarderline offensive to others in this thread who are trying to stay clean themselves and still show you support, when going purely by what you're saying yourself, you don't really want to be clean.

Once again, there is no offence meant by this post man. I say it out of love and concern. Please just fuck off the alcohol. A whole bottle of sambuca in a night after beers ontop of LSD is certainly not healing, that's just outright getting wasted in my book. Try and stick to sobriety and use the psyches now and again for your healing.

 

[Jnowhere]

I wonder if this guy is just messing with us. I wonder this or if his brain is so messed up from all that LSD that he can drink heavily, admit being an alcoholic, then say there is no such thing as alcoholism in the same post. Or maybe he has mental health issues( not here to shame, make fun of or be insensitive or judgemental) to people with mental heath issues. If that is the case: I sincerely hope he gets help.
On a different note, I am not being a homophobe, but(no pun intended) 'bufo" is slang term for butt f???Ed
In certain places in America
Also saying that you did more drugs than Hunter S Thompson: Is like saying your crazier than Gary Busey

 

[Frog Dreams]

I said I wasn't going to post in this thread, but people keep directing comments to me. I have attempted to respond via private message, but nobody is responding to those messages... and there continues to be a series of comments posted ITT.

Yet you claim to be an alcoholic in recovery.

I don't believe alcoholism is a permanent state. I said I used to be an alcoholic. Now, most days I don't drink. I can have one beer and leave it at that.

Part of the confusion here is we have different definitions of alcoholism and that's something that angers AA folks. I suppose I should have said (in my list of addictions) that I was once an alcohol addict. I do not believe I am an addict, right now. I did over a year without alcohol. Wasn't difficult. Then - after that year - I drank no more than 5 standard drinks a day. Most days I didn't drink.

So the reason you are getting grief from everyone in this thread is that is not the signs or behavior patterns of someone who wants to get clean.

Clean implies dirty. I don't like that word. I don't have any shame. I will quit drinking when I quit drinking. I'm not scared of myself. I'm not in a hurry. I'm not stressed about it. I recognize that it's problematic.

If you go back and read what I posted, you'll see you're making a series of assumptions.

I'm learning MORE from hangovers without the shame. The shame used to lead me to drink. It didn't serve me at all.

Now, I am getting to a point where I will stop drinking for the right reasons. I don't punish myself.

Read the original post that everyone reacted WTF to and people keep quoting.

I wake up with a hangover, but I don't suffer with it. I don't resign myself to it. I don't regret. I own it.

This is what I do with hangovers, now. I lean into them. I feel them. I learn from them. I don't fight.

Last night I had a couple of grams of mushrooms and about four tabs of acid, plus 5 beers (or so?) and most of a bottle of Sambuca.

I wake up with a hangover, but I wake up with God.

God is everything. The hangover is nothing.

Bring it on.

I'm tired of punishing myself.

Try and pinpoint a sentence that is problematic. I've re-read it numerous times. I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying.

Should I suffer? Should I regret it? Should I not own it? Should I not lean into hangovers? Should I not feel them? Should I not learn from them? Should I fight? Should I wake up without God? Is God not everything? Should I punish myself?

I honestly don't understand what you disagree with.

Everything I said was positive.

A whole bottle of sambuca in a night after beers ontop of LSD is certainly not healing

I went very deep with it. It was super healing. The hangover I experienced was as healing and powerful as a bufo ceremony and I wouldn't describe any other moment in my life like that - except perhaps a particular breakthrough Amanita Muscaria journey.

I wonder if this guy is just messing with us. I wonder this or if his brain is so messed up from all that LSD that he can drink heavily, admit being an alcoholic, then say there is no such thing as alcoholism in the same post.

There is no such thing as irreversible permanent alcoholism, IMO. You can be addicted to alcohol, like any drug. This is all semantics. If you want to understand what I'm saying, you just have to try.

There is no permanence in the universe.

They used to say schizophrenia was permanent but now they know it is not.

On a different note, I am not being a homophobe, but(no pun intended) 'bufo" is slang term for butt f???Ed

Bufo is latin for toad. It is a term that is often used in the medicine community to refer to the secretions of the Colorado River Toad, which contains 5-meo-DMT and bufotenine.

Also saying that you did more drugs than Hunter S Thompson: Is like saying your crazier than Gary Busey

Agree to disagree.