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The 2019 Trump Presidency Thread

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Captain.Heroin said:
It was definitely a campaign lie.
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Id say it's worse than a lie in many ways.

A lie would mean trump knew it wasn't true. I think trump probably believed it. Which is worse in some ways because it means he's not in touch with reality.

Its not just the original promise, he probably believes that he never really meant it literally now too. Because people like trump have this amazing ability to retroactively update their recollection of the past to fit what they desire in the present. They take the obvious truth, shove it down into the deepest corner of their mind, and give themselves entirely to a lie.
 
https://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/861082-The-2019-Trump-Presidency-Thread/

fairnymph said:
...he certainly beats Obama whose slick words (probably almost never phrased by him but speechwriters)...
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so he doesn't beat obama. he beats obama's speech writers.

fairnymph said:
Yes, Trump is blunt & speaks plainly, and likes to provoke people. But how exactly is he stupid?
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donald trump said:
...you know, I’m like a smart person...
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first red flag. smart people don't have to tell you how smart they are.

he tried to convince the editors of the economist that he invented the phrase "priming the pump" a couple of days before he met them. pretty stupid.

he picked a twitter fight with qatar (US officials scramble to limit Donald Trump's diplomatic damage over Qatar tweets). pretty stupid.

he thinks you need i.d. to buy groceries (Trump Claims Americans Need ID to Buy Groceries). not just pretty stupid but also shows how out of touch he is with the regular americans he claims to represent.

but don't take it from me. take it from people who have worked with him:

gary cohen - the goldman sachs president who became trump's national economic council director reportedly came away from his very first meeting with donald trump “astounded” by "how dumb" trump was.

former defense secretary jim mattis reportedly told close associates that the president had the understanding of "a fifth- or sixth-grader."

former white house deputy chief of staff katie walsh reportedly said working with him was "like trying to figure out what a child wants,"

secretary of state rex tillerson was reported to have called the president a "fucking moron". there was an obsequious loyalty pledge but he has not denied the comment.

william kelley - who taught trump at the university of pennysylvania claimed "donald trump was the dumbest goddamn student I ever had."

tony schwartz (who ghostwrote of "the art of the deal" says trump had "a stunning level of superficial knowledge and plain ignorance."

2r8b7p.jpg


yeah, he's pretty stupid.

alasdair
 
Yes, correct. So he could be very dumb or very smart in that case, if I were to judge him based purely on his use of speechwriters.

I'll check out some of those links. My AP European History teacher in high school taught Dubya back in the day, same class, & he was extremely underwhelmed by his intellect. Knowing how nice & non judgemental my teacher was, his words held a lot of weight for me. I find instructor comments enlightening but am always wary of agendas (political &/or personal) when it comes to opinions on important/famous people, even if the sources are firsthand accounts. I'd like to feel confident in my assessment of Trump's intelligence in order to better understand his motivations, but hopefully a Trump fan will chime in with countering accounts of his intelligence so I can get a more balanced perspective.

I've briefly met Dubya. He didn't seem very bright, but I think it's possible he's a very good actor. Still I lean towards my impression & my teacher's. Especially as a good friend had a college professor, who also taught Dubya, & whose view matched my teacher's.

There should be a minimum IQ required for presidents...and for voting, IMO.
 
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^ im a trump supporter and i have had a few harsh words to say about his none supporters in this thread or an older one all I know is no president or primeinistier will ever be like trump again people here will say thats a good thing but it really isn't but im gonna end it their before i get into another one sided argument with his haters not that i dislike them for their political beleif.
 
Trump is sooo stupid. He was able to turn his inheritance into a multi-billion dollar company while creating one of the most successful and recognizable brands in the world (515 successful companies out of 6 bankruptcies). He was then able to become President of the United States of America, with zero previous experience holding any political office, beating the entire US political establishment with half of the money of his opponent and no media help, all while the previous president, his opponent, the FBI, the DOJ, private companies and foreign agents were all colluding to illegally suveil and sabotage his campaign.

And he's still president 2 years after those same crooks told their followers he'd be gone - with a 52% approval rating!

Wow, what a fucking idiot. I mean, seriously stupid. Anybody could do that.

alasdairm said:
so we should only defer to the experts who agree with you?
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You tend to completely ignore nuance and whittle things down to the most basic of concepts to prove your points. Try digging a little deeper.
There are plenty of reasons why we should distrust the intelligence agencies. But if you can show me a border agent who disagrees with the wall, I'd genuinely like to see that and hear their reasons why.

alasdairm said:
so he doesn't beat Obama. he beats obama's speech writers.
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Trump can speak off the cuff for hours while Obama stutters like a schoolboy everytime his teleprompter breaks down.
But Obama definitely wins at LYING, if that's what we consider so egregious and surprising coming from a politician now (lol) when he LIED to the American public about when he found out about Hillary's illegal server - which housed classified information and SAPs, a crime so serious it would have jailed any private citizen for many lifetimes. So not only did Obama lie to the public, he was actually receiving emails from that server and emailing back under a pseudonym (one of the reasons that Hillary walked from those crimes was because the investigation would have implicated Obama and led to a constitutional crisis. So Comey took that bullet).
 
JGrimez said:
And he's still president 2 years after those same crooks told their followers he'd be gone - with a 52% approval rating!
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lol. you say that like it's somehow impressive? that's his highest rating. what were the highest ratings of his predecessors?

barack obama 69%
george w bush 90%
bill clinton 73%
george hw bush 89%

lol. fail.

not only that but low opinion polls are garbage! fake news! then the second they start looking good for the president, all of a sudden they're real news again? why believe them now but not back then?

JGrimez said:
But if you can show me a border agent who disagrees with the wall, I'd genuinely like to see that and hear their reasons why.
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sure - he're are a couple of links for you to blow off :)

What Border Agents Say They Want (It’s Not a Wall)
Wall of contention
U.S. border officer: "Do you think a wall is gonna stop them?"

that last link said:
But some border patrol agents like Eisenhauer, who typically work in remote areas, see it differently. Eisenhauer told CBS News that a “great wall” is not really the solution.

“Border fortification means a lot of things in different areas,” said Eisenhauer. “In areas where we can’t have a physical structure, we use the environmental challenges to funnel traffic into certain areas to identify and apprehend [individuals] in a more effective manner.”
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JGrimez said:
But Obama definitely wins at LYING...
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nah.

alasdair
 
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Alasdair - what's a Trump lie that was worse than Obama lying to the American people about Hillary Clinton mishandling classified information, endangering national security and violating the Espionage Act?

lol i'll wait...
 
alasdairm said:
so he doesn't beat obama. he beats obama's speech writers.



first red flag. smart people don't have to tell you how smart they are.

he tried to convince the editors of the economist that he invented the phrase "priming the pump" a couple of days before he met them. pretty stupid.

he picked a twitter fight with qatar (US officials scramble to limit Donald Trump's diplomatic damage over Qatar tweets). pretty stupid.

he thinks you need i.d. to buy groceries (Trump Claims Americans Need ID to Buy Groceries). not just pretty stupid but also shows how out of touch he is with the regular americans he claims to represent.

but don't take it from me. take it from people who have worked with him:

gary cohen - the goldman sachs president who became trump's national economic council director reportedly came away from his very first meeting with donald trump ?astounded? by "how dumb" trump was.

former defense secretary jim mattis reportedly told close associates that the president had the understanding of "a fifth- or sixth-grader."

former white house deputy chief of staff katie walsh reportedly said working with him was "like trying to figure out what a child wants,"

secretary of state rex tillerson was reported to have called the president a "fucking moron". there was an obsequious loyalty pledge but he has not denied the comment.

william kelley - who taught trump at the university of pennysylvania claimed "donald trump was the dumbest goddamn student I ever had."

tony schwartz (who ghostwrote of "the art of the deal" says trump had "a stunning level of superficial knowledge and plain ignorance."

2r8b7p.jpg


yeah, he's pretty stupid.

alasdair
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Lol.... I really think trump is "touched."

Jgrimez... You're still here sticking up for the retard... lol? Hamberders all day... Holy shit!
 
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No direct evidence of conspiracy between Trump campaign and Russia

'Senate has uncovered no direct evidence of conspiracy between Trump campaign and Russia'
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/co...nce-conspiracy-between-trump-campaign-n970536

NBC said:
WASHINGTON ? After two years and 200 interviews, the Senate Intelligence Committee is approaching the end of its investigation into the 2016 election, having uncovered no direct evidence of a conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia, according to both Democrats and Republicans on the committee.
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So I've been saying this for 2 years since the investigation began. You just need to look at the hypocritical actions of everyone involved with the Uranium One scandal to understand that this collusion story was a fake news hoax. Trump's win was a shock, his opponents could not admit that he won the election legitimately, so they lied and claimed that the Russians helped get Donald Trump elected (Google CEO admitted that Russians spent $4,700 on online ads - pretty cheap to swing a US election).

The irony here is that the media has virtually ignored the real scandal - FISAgate - where a whole bunch of Obama/Clinton associates literally colluded with foreign agents to illegally surveil the Trump team. For the full story (definitely worth a listen as the story is fascinating) this is ex-Secret Service under Obama, Dan Bongino. Obama, Mueller and the Biggest Scam in American History

 
Forget a trump lie, how about the fact that trump has himself, as president, not just mishandled but just thrown up on Twitter, classified information because he just doesn't give a crap. Because getting every stupid thing that pops into his brain on Twitter is more important to him than national security.

Trump IS one of our greatest national security threats. Because he is not loyal to the United States, he is loyal to himself. He doesn't respect national security, the constitution. He hurts our diplomatic relations with our closest allies. He provides propaganda to our enemies. And he divides us.

Trump is possibly the best president our enemies have ever had.
 
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False equivalency and misleading nonsense.

I've explained it before but I don't think anyone here truly understands what Hillary Clinton did.
I don't want to derail the thread but they're still investigating it, Chaffetz asked the Director of OIG for some of those emails, and they said that those emails were too sensitive for even Congress, or himself to see. These are emails that Hillary let other people see who didn't even have a security clearance.

There is literally no way to compare the actions of Hillary, and the lies of Obama to anything that Trump has done. And it's amusing to see people try.
 
Uhh, could you please expand on my false equivalency and misleading nonsense?

As for Clinton. I don't care what Clinton did, clintons not president. If she did something wrong, I hope they lock her up, if she didn't, great. But nothing Clinton has or hasn't done changes trumps actions. And trumps the one I care about.

You wanna talk about Clinton, that's fine. Go for it. (Just preferably not too much on the trump thread, perhaps we could have a Clinton thread) Just understand that my concern is trump. To that end, I am asking if you'd be willing to expand on your response to what I said, in the context of trump.

I don't much care for Clinton, and hey, if it really is one day proven that she did the kinda stuff you say, I hope they throw the book at her. But I hope you can understand why I'd be more concerned about how much it seems like our president poses a major threat to our security, our interests, and our safety.

And how even if your claims about Clinton were entirely true, that wouldn't make me feel any better about our trump problem.
 
JessFR said:
Forget a trump lie, how about the fact that trump has himself, as president, not just mishandled but just thrown up on Twitter, classified information because he just doesn't give a crap. Because getting every stupid thing that pops into his brain on Twitter is more important to him than national security.

Trump IS one of our greatest national security threats. Because he is not loyal to the United States, he is loyal to himself. He doesn't respect national security, the constitution. He hurts our diplomatic relations with our closest allies. He provides propaganda to our enemies. And he divides us.

Trump is possibly the best president our enemies have ever had.
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I don't get this at all. Could you give me specifics? As said, I don't follow Trump much. I read his tweets sometimes & hear about certain things but I'm bewildered by this, in light of what I DO know about Trump's actions as president.

I can maybe understand the last line but I'm sure in a way not at all how you meant it.
 
Well, I'm not sure exactly which part of my post you wanted specifics about, so I'll assume you're talking about his leaking of classified information.

My comments about his loyalty are pretty much just my interpretation of his behavior. But he has on numerous occasions been criticized for comments he has made that work to the advantage of individuals in governments generally considered not aligned with American interests or values. Specific examples I can think of off the top of my head include his comments about Kim Jong un, Philippine president Rodrigo Duterte. But there have been others. Then there's the repeated hostile comments toward leaders of our NATO and ANZUS allies.

But that's all just propaganda, it's subjective. I think it's pretty conclusive, but it's still something hard to prove in a way that's particularly objective even if I think it's pretty hard to deny.

His revealing of classified information however is different. I suppose you could argue that he knows what is and isn't appropriate to say, but that sure doesn't seem to be the case at all.

Only a month ago he leaked information about the identities and locations of navy seals in Iraq. A few months before that there was the information he leaked about skirmishes in Syria.

2 years ago he leaked information about sources regarding Islamic state to the fucking Russian foreign minister and Russian ambassador.

And as if all that weren't bad enough, you have the height of his hypocracy when you add in that he has repeatidly revoked security clearance of retired intelligence officers, not because of their endangering national secrets like trump himself does, but as political retribution because he didn't like what they said about him.

I mean I can post some sources if you like, but this is all pretty easy to find stuff.

I don't think he outright intends to do it. I think he's a narcissist who's loyal only to himself. So he just says whatever he likes not really caring about the consequences so long as he thinks it makes him look good.
 
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That definitely helps. To whom did he leak info more recently?

I would consider sharing info with Russia reasonable, as the 2 countries do work together against Islam AFAIK.

I don't think I can draw conclusions on why exactly he revoked clearance without a lot more info.

But I agree he displays many narcissistic tendencies. If he is a true narcissist, it's unlikely he's a good leader. Unfortunately many politicians seem to narcissists &/or socio/psychopaths.
 
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