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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

The 2019 Trump Presidency Thread

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It's appalling. Trump puts his own personal self interest ahead of everything. Throwing our own intelligence community under the bus for his own petty political reasons, or simply because it's an answer he doesn't want to hear.

He puts our whole country in danger for his own narcissistic bullshit.
 
I still think it's unlikely. I think it's a lot more likely he will simply be voted out in 2020.

If however, by some horrifying turn of events he gets reelected, then I think impeachments a lot more plausible. Though, unless the democrats run someone unelectable or some horrible unpredictable event happens, I'd rate his prospects for reelection very low.

You never know though. As you said, we can hope. The sooner he's removed the better as far as I'm concerned.
 
Oh like the agencies really know shit. Come on. They thought 9/11 wasn’t even a possibility despite repeated warnings.

Same goes for Russia.

It’s like the one thing everyone agrees is a shit show is DPRK and yet no one wants to go to war like me. WTF?!
 
If however, by some horrifying turn of events he gets reelected, then I think impeachments a lot more plausible. Though, unless the democrats run someone unelectable or some horrible unpredictable event happens, I'd rate his prospects for reelection very low.

I think it is more likely the Democrats splinter their votes between traditional liberals vs the millenial socialists, and can't mount a unified vote that can overtake Trump if he chooses to run again (my bet is his ego can't stop at one term). The question in my mind is less about Trump or the Dems, and more about Republicans and will they still put Trump as a nominee or try to move back to their respective base more? It's my impression Trump is so anti-establishment that as much as he fights the ingrained Dems...the ingrained Reps are just as stuck trying to get anything done. I think Reps are torn between riding Trumps coat tails to get something done VS finding him too offensive to support in the next election.

I could see Trump running again, even as an independent. I question if the Reps will be behind him or make him run independent. Dems, I just can't see getting unified enough. Simple hate of all things Trump is not a platform that will hold people together, they need a candidate with better ideas that will pull voters together.
 
Trump says there's a 'good chance' he'll declare an emergency for border wall

USA TODAY John Fritze and David Jackson, USA TODAY 12 hours ago

WASHINGTON ? President Donald Trump said there is a "good chance" he'll declare a national emergency to build his proposed border wall and said he would use his State of the Union address next week to once again make a case for the barrier.

?I think there?s a good chance we?ll have to do that,? he said of the declaration, which he has threatened for weeks. "We have very strong legal standing.?

The emergency declaration could help the Trump administration free up billions of dollars in construction money for the wall, but it will also almost certainly face legal challenges that could redefine the president's ability to use emergency powers.

A bipartisan group of lawmakers is working against a Feb. 15 deadline to produce a deal to fund the government and avoid another shutdown. Trump has demanded the final product include funding for his proposed border wall but has also said Republicans on the committee are "wasting their time" trying to negotiate with Democrats.

Trump is debating how to handle wall funding while he is also planning a pair of high-profile meetings with foreign leaders. Trump told reporters he may meet with Chinese President Xi Jinping next month after an expected summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un. The U.S. and China are working to head off an escalating trade war, and the president hosted a delegation of Chinese officials on Thursday.

"I?m thinking about it,? Trump said of the possible Xi meeting. ?It could happen.?

Trump dismissed questions about the widely reported location of his meeting with Kim ? Da Nang, Vietnam. The president declined to confirm those reports.

More: Is Trump right that border security talks are doomed? A graveyard of past failures says likely yes

In one of his few public appearances this week, the president met in the Oval Office with officials from the Department of Homeland Security as well as advocates working on human trafficking. To make the case for his proposed border wall, Trump has often lamented what he has described as a crisis of human trafficking across the border.

?People have no idea how bad it's become,? Trump said. ?The case for building a wall is everything."

Human trafficking is problem at the border, but advocates have questioned some of the president?s more colorful descriptions of that issue ? such as his assertion women are brought over the border bound with duct tape. The Human Trafficking Legal Center found a large number of trafficking victims were not entering the country illegally but rather had contracts to work as seasonal agricultural workers and domestic workers.

The president is set to depart the White House on Friday afternoon for his Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida, his first visit there since Thanksgiving.

This article originally appeared on USA TODAY: Trump says there's a 'good chance' he'll declare an emergency for border wall

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-apos-apos-good-180016136.html
 
Oh like the agencies really know shit. Come on. They thought 9/11 wasn’t even a possibility despite repeated warnings.

Same goes for Russia.

It’s like the one thing everyone agrees is a shit show is DPRK and yet no one wants to go to war like me. WTF?!

Even if we say that's true, that doesn't make the intelligence community totally useless.

And even if they were, that doesn't change that it's not in our interests for the president to publically undermine them and provide propaganda for our enemies to use.
 
if there truly is an emergency at the southern border why is trump waiting to formally declare it. why not last month? why not last year?

if you can wait for political reasons, it's not an emergency.

obvious conclusion is obvious.

alasdair
 
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that's demonstrably untrue. there's plenty of reading in this forum where people have provided examples and they've simply been rejected which all (some) trump supporters seem capable of doing.
Goes both ways. The Trump-haters here refuse to see opposing viewpoints and generally have their minds made up (with their loose and flexible definitions of racism).

"i support him because he's getting stuff done!" so you show them examples of the failure to advance key campaign promises and they just blow it off.
And you are ignoring all the stuff that he has got done. Which is a lot.

In 1975 he was sued by the civil rights division for racial discrimination against black tenants.

trump never, ever, ever, ever, ever settles lawsuits. he settled the case. the settlement included a requirement that the trump firm institute a series of safeguards to ensure that, in future, apartments be rented without regard to race, color, religion, sex or national origin.

Except there's more to the story than that, which I have actually gone over with you previously, yet you seem to ignore the evidence and then keep repeating this as proof of Trump being a racist.

So Trump's company counter-sued the government, asking for $100 million in damages for false allegations of discrimination. According to released FBI documents, many of the interviewees said that they had never seen any discrimination against African-Americans or Puerto Ricans. One tenant told FBI investigators that ?it was obvious that she had not been discriminated against since she, in fact, a Negro female, had been rented an apartment? at one of the buildings owned by Trump Management Co., documents say. Many employees stated they had not been instructed to discriminate against applicants based on race and maintained that income became the primary reason that individuals were denied apartments. Other employees and tenants offered up observations of ?Negros, Puerto Ricans and Orientals? living in the buildings. One former building superintendent denied that racial discrimination was encouraged by the company and said that he did not know of any person rejected on the basis of race.

Eventually, the government and Trump Management entered into a consent decree in June 1975. The Trumps admitted no wrongdoing and were prohibited from ?discriminating against any person in the terms, conditions, or privileges of sale or rental of a dwelling.? They were also required to take out advertisements notifying minority individuals that they had an equal opportunity to seek housing at Trump properties.

-Shithole countries are shithole countries, nothing to do with race. The issue there should be asking who's responsible for turning these impoverished nations into shitholes.

trump stated that judge curiel was incapable of being impartial because he's 'mexican' (which he's not). that is textbook racism.
Since Mexican isn't a race, then it is literally not textbook racism (which is discrimination by race). If anything it's attacking his Mexican nationalism.

It's nice that you've whittled down the most egregious examples which are a very far cry from proving Trump to be a racist. You could point to the growing conservative movement in the African-American community (try even listening to what they say) for some good insight into how and why Trump is not actually a racist (I'm surprised that some people are still throwing out the "racist" accusation to this day).

if there truly is an emergency's at the southern border why is trump waiting to formally declare it. why not last month? why not last year?
It's been an emergency for a very long time, but if there was a way to solve the problem without declaring it then that would be the best option. Trump tried that by negotiating with the Democrats, attempting to anyway. There are completely unwilling to negotiate on the wall and one of the main reason is politics. It would be a campaign win for Trump which will help him with re-election, which his opponents cannot allow. This is one of the major problems with politics, because there is an issue that needs to be addressed. The justifications for engaging in this behavior doesn't make sense - how is a wall immoral? Because I just heard an ex-Department of Homeland Security agent speak:

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2019/0...red-about-children-theyd-want-the-wall-719775

Tim Ballard worked for 12 years as a special agent for Homeland Security Investigations in the Child Crimes/Child Trafficking unit: "I can say with certainty that the issue of the border wall should be not about power and partisan politics". He says little girls are trafficked across the porous US-Mexico border every day, where they are smuggled into the United States and exploited as sex slaves.

Not long ago, a 13-year-old girl from Central America ? let?s call her ?Liliana? ? was kidnapped from her village, then trafficked into the U.S. at a location where there is no wall or barrier.

From there, she was taken to New York City, where she was raped by American men 30 to 40 times a day?The wall would have likely saved her. The wall is a law enforcement operation.?


Keep in mind also that countless young girls and women are raped every day as they make the dangerous trek to the US border.
?This is an epidemic hiding right under our noses,? Fox News host Laura Ingraham said. ?Each year, between 14,000 and about 17,500 people are trafficked into the United States.?

So the question is should we care about these cases and listen to these experts? Why did the Democrats previously pledge $50 billion to southern border security (which was obviously mostly squandered) yet now refuse $5 billion to Trump for a border wall? They wouldn't put the safety of innocent children at risk to gain political power no chance.
 
Goes both ways. The Trump-haters here refuse to see opposing viewpoints and generally have their minds made up (with their loose and flexible definitions of racism).

And you are ignoring all the stuff that he has got done. Which is a lot.

It doesn't fit the narrative. Orange man bad.


Not to skip everything and focus on one of your many points, because there is a lot to discuss. But, this part caught my eye:

So the question is should we care about these cases and listen to these experts? Why did the Democrats previously pledge $50 billion to southern border security (which was obviously mostly squandered) yet now refuse $5 billion to Trump for a border wall? They wouldn't put the safety of innocent children at risk to gain political power no chance.

There isn't a right leaning fact checker I'm aware of, only the left leaning snopes and politifact. But without alternatives, they are the only ones I can cite:

Did Congress ‘Set Aside’ $50 Billion in 2006 for the Construction of Border Fencing?

What's True
One 1999 analysis provided cost estimates for border fencing which suggested that over 25 years, the cost of building and maintaining 700 miles of double-layer border fencing (similar to what the Secure Fence Act called for) could be between $11.5 billion and $49 billion.

What's False
The Secure Fence Act did not authorize, allocate or "set aside" any funding. Furthermore, $49 billion was a "worst case" estimate for the possible 25-year cost of the border fencing, and lawmakers did not appear to have considered that analysis before casting their votes on the Secure Fence Act in 2006.


No, Congress did not approve $50 billion for border fence in 2006

Here’s the problem with the missing money claims: Congress did not approve $50 billion for a fence in 2006. (Snopes previously debunked these social media posts.)

Just over half of Democrats in the U.S. Senate voted for the Secure Fence Act of 2006, including Barack Obama, Chuck Schumer and Hillary Clinton. Most Democrats in the House voted against it, including California Rep. Nancy Pelosi. President George W. Bush signed it into law in October 2006.

The law authorized a fence along about 700 miles of the border between the U.S.-Mexico border. By 2015, 654 miles were completed.

We read several news stories about the act’s passage in 2006. None pegged the cost anywhere near $50 billion.

The Secure Fence Act didn’t mention money to be spent on fencing.

Congress separately approved a $33.7 billion spending bill for the Department of Homeland Security, which included $1.2 billion for fencing, infrastructure and technology on the border.

The $1.2 billion was described in news articles as a down payment, but there was disagreement about how much the full fence would cost. Newspapers and politicians cited estimates between $2 billion and $12 billion.

It seems Mr. President didn't invent the $50m (was mentioned in the articles that people began using the $50m back in '07 and '08 ), but has perpetuated it in correctly. Nowhere has it been shown that $50m was ever approved by anyone. It was an estimate on the high end of what costs could reach based on an Army Corp of Engineers study from 1999.
 
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if there truly is an emergency's at the southern border why is trump waiting to formally declare it. why not last month? why not last year?

if you can wait for political reasons, it's not an emergency.

obvious conclusion is obvious.

alasdair

I agree Trump cannot simply declare the southern border as an emergency due to not getting the support he wants from congress.

What terms would you use to describe the southern border as? A non-issue? A political distraction?
 
I would say that border security is an issue, and politicians on both sides have said this. For example, I've seen it said on here often that Obama deported more people than Trump has. I think the situation is being way overblown right now for political gain, to drive up support from all the people who consider it their biggest or one of their biggest issues (examples: sending the military to block the "caravan", claiming (without evidence) that most of the caravan is MS-13 and/or ISIS, making it seem like the only reason people are coming over is to traffic people, claiming this is how people are bringing in the majority of the drugs, while evidence all points to most drugs not being carried over the border but flown in or driven in, and so on). I also think it's a tool of xenophobic nationalists (this is on the rise across the world) to increase support for that agenda by causing an increase in fear related to immigration. I think we need to continue to have border security, but we also need to continue to allow people in through legitimate means, and I don't think a wall is going to do anything, especially considering most illegal immigrants just overstay their visas, and that's how they get in. And most of all, we need to stop dehumanizing them and fearing them.
 
^ yep.

What terms would you use to describe the southern border as? A non-issue? A political distraction?
it's not a non-issue but it is a political distraction.

the wall was an easy sound-bite that he used to whip up his supporters' fears and support during the campaign. trump is the leader of the no-nuance movement so now here we are...

Lindsey Graham Said the Quiet Part Out Loud About the Border Wall

first the wall was a wall. then it was not a wall. then it was a metaphor. then it was "slats or whatever you want to call it. then dems called it a wall and trump got upset.

it's b.s. politics-as-usual...

a wall would have no - or negligible - impact on drug smuggling (sources: the dea; former department of homeland security secretary and trump's former chief of staff john kelly; et. al) and little impact on illegal immigration.

alasdair
 
Oh like the agencies really know shit. Come on. They thought 9/11 wasn?t even a possibility despite repeated warnings.

Same goes for Russia.

It?s like the one thing everyone agrees is a shit show is DPRK and yet no one wants to go to war like me. WTF?!
let's be real here, you don't want to go to war, you want other people to die for your ideology.
 
Agree that the attention from Trump on the whole immigration issue is just a distraction. Trump just uses it to change the narrative, from things like the Mueller investigation.
Doubt it. Mueller investigation has been corrupt from the start and the evidence they've found or presented of Russian collusion is precisely ZERO. The irony here is that the Mueller investigation is actually a distraction from the FISAgate scandal of the Obama admin unmasking Americans during illegal surveillance, and they even let private companies access the NSA database to listen to Americans - it wasn't even government officials! As soon as the Mueller investigation wraps up, all the focus will be on this so Bob has to keep the pressure on. He's hoping they'll catch Trump jaywalking eventually.
https://www.facebook.com/davepmcdonald/posts/2072348962823669
This is ex-Secret Service Dan Bongino with an excellent summary of what's happened so far (this is actually fascinating to listen to - 'The Greatest Spy Story Never Told' - except it actually happened). To think if Hillary had won we wouldn't know about any of this. That's reason enough to praise Trump, his win shone a light on corruption at the highest levels.


claiming (without evidence) that most of the caravan is MS-13 and/or ISIS, making it seem like the only reason people are coming over is to traffic people, claiming this is how people are bringing in the majority of the drugs, while evidence all points to most drugs not being carried over the border but flown in or driven in, and so on).
This is actually ridiculous when you think about it. Imagine that you were a drug trafficker: are you going to go through a port of entry when there is a massive border that is demonstrably easy to get across? I wonder why most of the drugs they seize are through ports of entry. Because there's law enforcement there! That's definitely a fraction of the total being brought across.

I also think it's a tool of xenophobic nationalists (this is on the rise across the world) to increase support for that agenda by causing an increase in fear related to immigration.
No, it's not because everyone who has issues with immigration is racist. This is a tactic used by the open-borders crowd. Anyone honest will admit that there are problems, or potential problems with immigration, regardless of race.

I think we need to continue to have border security, but we also need to continue to allow people in through legitimate means, and I don't think a wall is going to do anything,
Walls work, it's a scientific fact (check Newton's laws). Nobody is saying it will completely eliminate the problem, but it will do a lot to prevent or reduce the real undesirables: cartels, human traffickers. Legitimate asylum seekers are advised to go through points of entry.

especially considering most illegal immigrants just overstay their visas, and that's how they get in.
Someone who was vetted and originally allowed into the country is VERY different from an illegal immigrant that we have no idea who they are and could be any violently dangerous criminal. It's also easier to track down and remove those people that flew in and overstayed because we have a record. I also find this such a terrible argument, it's like saying "there are so many people committing murders on the west coast, so we shouldn't bother with trying to prevent murderers on the east coast". How about attempting to solve the issue or at least offering solutions.

And most of all, we need to stop dehumanizing them and fearing them.
Intelligent people fear illegal immigrants who are criminals and not vetted. People do not fear legitimate asylum seekers or immigrants that have put in the hard work to apply legally looking for a better life. It's about time we stopped conflating these two in order to paint people who have genuine concerns about the immigration process as racist. Trump wants to build a wall and also appoint 75 new immigration judges to improve the legal immigration process, what's wrong with that?

How come nobody is addressing the child sex trafficking issue? Is that not a concern? I guess even the "resistance" has victims. Oppose Trump/Wall at all costs - ignore the little girls that are just being walked across the border and then sold to American men dozens of time a day.

There isn't a right leaning fact checker I'm aware of, only the left leaning snopes and politifact. But without alternatives, they are the only ones I can cite
Snopes are notoriously deceptive and misleading so I do not trust them, but I looked into it. I thought they allocated the money though maybe I was wrong, but the main point here is that they used to claim (or pretended to) that there was a problem down South and that they were serious about doing something.

Boston Globe said:
"As a senator, Barack Obama once offered measured praise for the border control legislation that would become the basis for one of Donald Trump?s first acts as president."

?The bill before us will certainly do some good,? Obama said on the Senate floor in October 2006. He praised the legislation, saying it would provide ?better fences and better security along our borders? and would ?help stem some of the tide of illegal immigration in this country.?

Obama was talking about the Secure Fence Act of 2006, legislation authorizing a barrier along the southern border passed into law with the support of 26 Democratic senators including party leaders like Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, and Chuck Schumer.

The episode shows how concerns over border security occupied Washington well before Trump made it the centerpiece of his candidacy, and that Democrats were more than willing to offer big sums of taxpayer money to keep Mexicans and other Latino immigrants out of the United States.

The law flew through the Senate with a vote of 80 to 19. (One senator, Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts, was not present. John Kerry, the state?s other senator, voted against it.) In the House, the measure passed 283 to 138, with 64 Democrats supporting it. (The Massachusetts delegation was split.) From there it went to then-President George W. Bush, who signed it 12 days before the 2006 mid-term elections. Congress put aside $1.4 billion for the fence, but the whole cost, including maintenance, was pegged at $50 billion over 25 years, according to analyses at the time.

Trump is smart in the sense he uses people's own words against them and makes them look like hypocrites. For example with Trump's temporary visa restrictions (which the media spun into a 'Muslim Ban'), Bush had previously enacted similar restrictions with Iraq, and Obama had created the list of 7 countries that were considered the biggest terrorist threats to the USA. Trump was merely enforcing the laws more seriously and improving vetting procedures so that the US did not face a wave of attacks by fake refugees like Europe did.

The southern border wall is a popular demand by Americans. Most understand they can prevent criminals from immigrating illegally while still improving legal immigration. I wish Democrats would be honest and just say they're obstructing it because it would be a win for Trump. Also ask yourselves if there could be politicians who are covertly profiting from the illegal trade across the border *gasp*
 
No, it's not because everyone who has issues with immigration is racist. This is a tactic used by the open-borders crowd. Anyone honest will admit that there are problems, or potential problems with immigration, regardless of race.

I didn't suggest that everyone who has issues with immigration is racist. I suggested that the people who have shaped the narrative are xenophobic nationalists who are using it to drum up fear in their base. I completely agree that a person who supports the wall and is afraid of illegal immigrants is feeling a legitimate sense of fear, IF they believe what is being said, that terrorists and violent gang members and child traffickers and other "undesirables" are coming through the border in slavering, murderous hordes. If I believed that, I would be terrified, too, and I'd probably support building a wall because maybe, just maybe it would save me. But, I don't believe that; instead, I believe it's a story being pushed for an agenda. I'm sure there is some small percentage of that stuff going on. Then again, there are people that are going to do these things among all populations, in all walks of life. Most Americans are killed, raped, molested and robbed by other Americans. By believing that illegal immigrants are much more likely to be these people to fear, they are dehumanized to us, which was my point.
 
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