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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

The 2019 Trump Presidency Thread

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Even if you suppose that a wall would help a lot with illegal immigration and crime and such, which I'm far from convinced about...

The cost is just absurd. The cost of construction and maintainence is gonna be huge. I just don't believe there aren't far better ways we could use that money to better benefit American society.
 
An actual racist would just hold their guns and be delighted in keeping their local society "pure", even with open boarders.

It is not a fair thing to say liberals are saying "oh you have to be open-boarders or you're racist", considering this is silly as shit. And, most liberals aren't libertarians and they have said over and over again they're not for open boarders.

JG try harder. You're not doing well.
 
So obstruction to the wall involves:

"I don't believe that smuggling guns, criminals and sex trafficking is an actual problem"
or
"The wall is too expensive"

anything else?
 
jgrimez, you're a pretty reliable trump apologist :)

on the issue of the border, you're pretty clear we should listen to the border experts, right?

so on the issue of intelligence on issues like russia, syria, prnk, etc. one assumes you also think we should listen to the experts there. trump is not listening to the experts - he knows better, apparently, and the intelligence experts he appointed are "naive". can i safely assume you believe trump is mistaken here and we should defer to the experts?

alasdair
 
Hoping for impeachment. Ashamed that guy is my "leader". Just the simple fact he uses twitter makes me sick. Your the president of country and you have time to tweet shit?
 
I don't have a problem with him using Twitter, but the WAY he uses it is so unpresidential. It also reveals him to have very little discipline.
 
Shadowmeister said:
I don't have a problem with him using Twitter, but the WAY he uses it is so unpresidential. It also reveals him to have very little discipline.
Click to expand...

Same. I mean I dont think its reasonable to think the president shouldn't have ANY free time of any sort to even smallest degree.

I don't see participating on Twitter as a problem whatsoever.

I do see the way trump uses Twitter to be terrible though. Even putting aside all the horrible shit he keeps saying, he doesn't seem to have the self control or foresight to keep from leaking sensitive information on it.

Ironic given he keeps using security clearance as a way to punish behavior he doesn't like. When he himself is a far greater threat to national security.
 
JGrimez said:
It's been an emergency for a very long time, but if there was a way to solve the problem without declaring it then that would be the best option.
Click to expand...
then it's not an emergency.

an emergency is a sudden, urgent occurrence requiring immediate attention. if it was genuinely an emergency, he should have declared it so on day 1 of his term. instead we had all his campaign b.s. about mexico paying and we know how that went. the world's greatest negotiator seems to have stumbled a little with this one...

alasdair
 
Shadowmeister said:
I don't have a problem with him using Twitter, but the WAY he uses it is so unpresidential. It also reveals him to have very little discipline.
Click to expand...

I think he writes in reaction to things before he thinks, so at times it could be the closest we get to the truth from him. :|
 
alasdairm said:
instead we had all his campaign b.s. about mexico paying and we know how that went. the world's greatest negotiator seems to have stumbled a little with this one...
Click to expand...

I still haven't heard a straight answer on that from Trump supporters. Hell, I don't think I've actually heard any answer.
 
At this point, I really can't take trump supporters seriously anymore.

A month ago he outright said that he never really meant that Mexico would literally pay for the wall. Even though that's exactly what he said, repeatidly.

Believing trump requires denying even the most basic absolute realities of recent events. And if you can't believe what trump says, why in God's name should anyone vote for him?
 
^People are really awful at admitting when they are wrong. Generally, it seems people either double down on their beliefs or simply dismiss anything that runs counter to them as 'fake news' or 'conspiracy theory' or whatever. The only way to deal with cognitive dissonance is to try an plow the fuck through it or bend facts to suit.

Certainly not isolated to Trumpsters but pretty evident there right now.
 
His supporters don't care if Mexico pays for the wall as long as it gets built. If it gets built solely by government funding then the Mexico campaign promise will be forgiven. Or one idea was to get the drug cartels to pay for it. The obstructionists are acting like it's a massive amount money when in the scope of the national budget it's peanuts. These faux-cries of expenditure wastage aren't taken very seriously. I wonder if anyone will admit that they're against the wall for political reasons (ie. Trump having better chance of re-election)

alasdairm said:
so on the issue of intelligence on issues like russia, syria, prnk, etc. one assumes you also think we should listen to the experts there. trump is not listening to the experts - he knows better, apparently, and the intelligence experts he appointed are "naive". can i safely assume you believe trump is mistaken here and we should defer to the experts?
Click to expand...

Bit of false equivalency there to push your point but the intelligence agencies have routinely betrayed our trust, the border agents have not done the same for me personally yet. The intel agencies didn't even ever offer any evidence that the Russians hacked the DNC servers. They've also turned up nothing against Trump in over 2 years, and we now know the FBI was engaging in the illegal surveillance of the Trump team. Still no dirt though. This leads me to believe Trump on the issue of Russia, unless Mueller can pull a rabbit out of his ass in the 11th hour.
 
JGrimez said:
His supporters don't care if Mexico pays for the wall as long as it gets built. If it gets built solely by government funding then the Mexico campaign promise will be forgiven.
Click to expand...
campaign promise? campaign lie you mean.

JGrimez said:
Bit of false equivalency there to push your point but the intelligence agencies have routinely betrayed our trust, the border agents have not done the same for me personally yet. The intel agencies didn't even ever offer any evidence that the Russians hacked the DNC servers. They've also turned up nothing against Trump in over 2 years, and we now know the FBI was engaging in the illegal surveillance of the Trump team. Still no dirt though. This leads me to believe Trump on the issue of Russia, unless Mueller can pull a rabbit out of his ass in the 11th hour.
Click to expand...
ah ok.

it's hilarious/sad/whatever that you feel that the intelligence services have betrayed your trust but not trump - who told you outright lies to get a vote.

so we should only defer to the experts who agree with you?

got it. thanks :)

alasdair
 
I see a lot of remarks regarding flaws of character that are assumed from Trump's Twitter account, even calling it a threat to national security. I'm Chilean, I have a few Mexican friends, most of them came legally to Chile. They are bigger supporters of the wall than any person in Trump's cabinet.

Do you guys know what's in the south? It's not just a bunch of low-skilled labor wanting to enter the US. Sinaloa is the biggest criminal enterprise in the planet, period. Cosa Nostra, the crips and the bloods, the shining path, the aryan brotherhood, they are all associates of the Sinaloa cartel. It is the biggest drug traficking criminal enterprise in the planet, and that's ONE cartel. Los Zetas are smaller, but they are as, if not more brutal than ISIS. There's El Golfo, Beltr?n-Leyva, Ju?rez, they by de-facto control Mexico. They have an unlimited supply of money, weapons you only find in the military, RPGs, high-caliber large machine guns, anti-tank anti-aircraft .50 cal rifles and machine guns, if they get into the US, which is their goal (Why do you think El Chapo said he would kill Trump?) it would have nothing to do with immigration, it would be an invasion. The lower border states would be effectively war-zones.
''That won't happen, that's fear mongering'' Just look at the campaing platforms of AMLO, he's setting them free. He wants to pardon mass killers, he wants to back down the Mexican military, the only force preventing them from expanding. And what has he done so far? AMLO decided to leave 80% of Mexico without gas to stop gas theft, [REDACTED] opened a hole in a pipeline, people went to get free gas, 107 dead. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugoy4KccgSk
If you think these people, who have multiple times burned alive, massacred, tortured, detonated and killed in every way they could think off their fellow countrymen, give a flying fuck about killing gringos, you're delusional. It's their fucking dream. I'll be surprised if within 2 years Mexico is not an absolute failed state. And that's what will burst into your country. And any politician who campaigned under disbanding ICE, I wouldn't trust them. They may very well be that incredibly stupid, but like I said, the cartels have an endless supply of cash, and it just keeps getting bigger. Sinaloa supplies about 80% of the illicit fentanyl flooding the US, they're just getting richer and more powerful and their president is letting go of the leash. Trump asides, can anyone tell me why a wall is a bad idea?
 
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