• Current Events & Politics
    Welcome Guest
    Please read before posting:
    Forum Guidelines Bluelight Rules
  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

The 2019 Trump Presidency Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Trump lifts sanctions on Russia oligarch Oleg Deripaska in 'huge gift to Putin'

The sanctions, imposed in April, were designed to punish Russia for its actions including its annexation of the Crimea from the Ukraine, efforts to interfere in the US elections and support for Syria’s government in its civil war.

Advocates for keeping the sanctions argued Mr Deripaska, who has been accused of links to organised crime, retained too much control over the companies.

Lawmakers from both parties also said it was inappropriate to ease the sanctions while special counsel Robert Mueller investigates whether Mr Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign colluded with Moscow.

On Monday, former US ambassador to Russia, Michael McFaul, described the Trump administration’s decision as a “huge gift to Putin”.

“Lifting of these sanctions was a big win for Putin and Deripaska. And what did we – the American people – get in return? Nothing,” he wrote on Twitter.
https://news.yahoo.com/trump-lifts-sanctions-russia-oligarch-084510193.html

But... but... no president has ever been tougher on Russia than Trump! Right? Right??
 
From what I understand, it is hard to find anyone in the power group in Russia that isn't tied to organized crime.

That we give them a 'gift' and get nothing in return is disappointing.
 
tenor.gif
 
You guys all hate and bash Trump so much. You're all so cool and edgy!

Also, how can you guys say Trump is impulsive/emotional/doesn't care about facts or reason/etc. when all you guys say about him is "he's a racist!" "he acts like a baby!" "he's a traitor to America!" without providing any examples.

Oh, right. It's "self-evident" that Trump is a racist/baby/traitor/piece of shit, so you don't need to provide any stupid "evidence" or "examples." Providing a rational argument against his policies would just be normalizing and legitimizing him, right?
 
Wait? Hating trump also makes you cool and edgy? Awesome!

Seriously though, at this point, if you don't see the problems with Trump, why would anyone bother providing any evidence?

I mean, imagine if someone argued to you that, iunno, the country of Canada doesn't actually exist. It would be pretty tempting to just ignore such people rather than argue with them. If there were any possibility at all that the evidence would change anything, they wouldn't be making the argument to begin with.

Some positions are just so seemingly unjustified, that it immediately feels like a waste of time discussing them. Now I understand that you don't consider this to be one of them, but surely you understand what I'm talking about. Even if for you, this isn't an example of such a position.

To those of us who hold this position, barely a day goes by without trump providing more evidence for us.
 
Honestly, some of the greatest evidence of his foolishness and assholery is his Twitter feed. Presumably that isn't biased against him, though you wouldn't know it. It suffers from poes law. The real deal and a parody are indistinguishable.
 
Wait? Hating trump also makes you cool and edgy? Awesome!

Seriously though, at this point, if you don't see the problems with Trump, why would anyone bother providing any evidence?

I mean, imagine if someone argued to you that, iunno, the country of Canada doesn't actually exist. It would be pretty tempting to just ignore such people rather than argue with them. If there were any possibility at all that the evidence would change anything, they wouldn't be making the argument to begin with.

Some positions are just so seemingly unjustified, that it immediately feels like a waste of time discussing them. Now I understand that you don't consider this to be one of them, but surely you understand what I'm talking about. Even if for you, this isn't an example of such a position.

To those of us who hold this position, barely a day goes by without trump providing more evidence for us.

And...you just proved my point. Trump being bad is just so *obvious* that you don't need to explain your position. Anyone who disagrees with you is *automatically* stupid.

Do you realize how smug and arrogant you sound?

Regardless of whether or not you agree with Trump's policies, you do realize that nearly half the voting public voted for him, right? I think it is quite arrogant to automatically assume all these people are stupid and have no legitimate reasons why they voted for him.

And to answer your question, if you are on a forum discussing something, it is generally preferable to provide evidence and logical arguments. That gives people who disagree with you a chance to either change their minds or try to prove you wrong. Otherwise, what is the point of having a discussion (unless, of course, your goal is merely to make yourself feel smart by smugly referring to everyone who disagrees with you as "stupid")?

If you think that supporting Trump is actually as stupid as "believing Canada does not exist," then why are you here discussing the topic? If I were to make a thread asserting that "Canada does not exist" (or that the Earth is flat, or whatever), would you even bother to argue with me or discuss the topic?

If the topic (Trump) is worth discussing, then present a logical argument. If the topic is so *obvious* that it isn't even worth discussing, then why are you here talking about it?
 
This thread is just a general trump discussion thread. Yes it can be about discussing the validity of his policies, but it can also be about discussing his failures with no defense of him.

In reality, it tends to go back and forth between both. Trump supporters on bluelight are a minority, so often if no supporters are around, the discussion becomes more about the nature of his failures and options to get rid of him rather than any question of his competence and ability.

Also, there's a difference between arguing a specific subject of trumps policy and its positives and negatives, and arguing trumps capability as a whole. The former I'd probably engage in, whereas the latter is pointless.

Plus, I'm a moderator so I should probably keep an eye on a potentially emotionally charged thread even if I don't have much to say. But that's really the most insignificant reason.

So that's why I and others like me are here even if we don't think there's any point in arguing if trump, as a leader in general, is any good. There are other things to discuss on a trump thread.

I understand that it must be frustrating being on your position. Which is why I'm trying to explain mine. For many of us who think trump is an incompetent buffoon. The evidence seems overwhelming and constant. So, if someone doesn't agree, there's not going to be any way to change their mind.

What's the point of debating something if there's absolutely no chance either party will budge? It would be just as pointless for you as it would be for me.

I'm not trying to call you stupid, I don't think you have to be stupid to support trump. I do think however that it means that your worldview must be so different that we'd have little common ground to argue over.

Perhaps if you explained what the major reasons you support trump, I and perhaps others could argue those specific points. That could be much more interesting that just trying to argue or prove some generalized idea of trumps capability and competence overall.

For me, the reason I hate the guy is I think his behavior is appalling. He shows no empathy for other people. His behavior is consistently narcissistic, the way he turns every discussion into being about his own victories.

As for his policies, well let's start with the most recent in the news. His stupid wall. His actions seriously hurt an enormous number of Americans, and all for what? Even if we assume that a wall would work, 5 billion isn't remotely enough to build it. Even if he'd won, it would have accomplished nothing.
 
Last edited:
And to answer your question, if you are on a forum discussing something, it is generally preferable to provide evidence and logical arguments.

Let's see... Holding government workers hostage because of a stupid wall? Separating children from their families? A laughable response to the Puerto Rico shit, giving shit all about global warming, etc, etc, etc. I honestly can't keep track anymore. What are the reasons you voted for him assuming you did?
 
And...you just proved my point. Trump being bad is just so *obvious* that you don't need to explain your position. Anyone who disagrees with you is *automatically* stupid.

Do you realize how smug and arrogant you sound?

Regardless of whether or not you agree with Trump's policies, you do realize that nearly half the voting public voted for him, right? I think it is quite arrogant to automatically assume all these people are stupid and have no legitimate reasons why they voted for him.

And to answer your question, if you are on a forum discussing something, it is generally preferable to provide evidence and logical arguments. That gives people who disagree with you a chance to either change their minds or try to prove you wrong. Otherwise, what is the point of having a discussion (unless, of course, your goal is merely to make yourself feel smart by smugly referring to everyone who disagrees with you as "stupid")?

If you think that supporting Trump is actually as stupid as "believing Canada does not exist," then why are you here discussing the topic? If I were to make a thread asserting that "Canada does not exist" (or that the Earth is flat, or whatever), would you even bother to argue with me or discuss the topic?

If the topic (Trump) is worth discussing, then present a logical argument. If the topic is so *obvious* that it isn't even worth discussing, then why are you here talking about it?

We have been discussing this administration since before it *was* an administration. Instead of demanding that everyone spoon feed you evidence and reiterate arguments that have already been argued to death, you could simply read through the other relevant threads in CE&P, both past and present. Don't skip the archives. :)
 
...all you guys say about him is "he's a racist!" "he acts like a baby!" "he's a traitor to America!" without providing any examples.
that's demonstrably untrue. there's plenty of reading in this forum where people have provided examples and they've simply been rejected which all (some) trump supporters seem capable of doing.

"i support him because he's a straight-shooter so you always know where he stands!" so you show them examples of him taking different positions on the same subject and they just blow it off.

"i support him because he's a washington outsider and he's draining the swamp!" so you show them examples of his corporate cronyism and hiring lobbyists they just blow it off.

"i support him because he's getting stuff done!" so you show them examples of the failure to advance key campaign promises and they just blow it off.

"i support him because, unlike obama, he isn't always on vacation!" so you show them examples of his taking way more vacation than obama and they just blow it off.

etc.

so here are some examples of his racism for you to now blow off:

in 1975 he was sued by the civil rights division for racial discrimination against black tenants.

trump never, ever, ever, ever, ever settles lawsuits. he settled the case. the settlement included a requirement that the trump firm institute a series of safeguards to ensure that, in future, apartments be rented without regard to race, color, religion, sex or national origin.

Completely Racist?: Edwidge Danticat on Trump?s ?Shithole Countries? Remark Targeting Africa, Haiti

RUPERT COLVILLE: These are shocking and shameful comments from the president of the United States. I?m sorry, but there?s no other word one can use but ?racist.? You cannot dismiss entire countries and continents as [bleep], whose entire populations, who are not white, are therefore not welcome. ? The positive comment on Norway makes the underlying sentiment very clear. And like the earlier comments made vilifying Mexicans and Muslims, the policy proposals targeting entire groups on grounds of nationality or religion, and the reluctance to clearly condemn the anti-Semitic and racist actions of the white supremacists in Charlottesville, all of these go against the universal values the world has been striving so hard to establish since World War II and the Holocaust.

trump stated that judge curiel was incapable of being impartial because he's 'mexican' (which he's not). that is textbook racism.

judge curiel is a u.s. citizen who was born in indiana.

trump made his comments in an on the record interview with the wsj in june 2016.

even paul ryan described trump's comment as "the textbook definition of a racist comment". it's not often i agree wtih paul ryan...

alasdair
 
In real life I wouldn't be surprised if Donald J. Trump had a nazi memorabilia collection, and collected the bones of dead mexicans that died along the border. He probably pays whites in MAGA hats to mail him the remains so he has a giant pile of bones of people's lives he's literally annihilated.

He is the most evil person in modern history aside from Putin and Kim Jong Un, both people he has verbally praised.

I guess it was worth it to speed up the drug approval process... *eyeroll*

Impeach him impeach him impeach him impeach him impeach him! Maxine or Harris for president in 2020.
 
Wagers on whether Pillsbury_Dope_Boy responds or not? =D

I don't want to make assumptions but it seems to be the modus operandi for people defending Trump to either backpedal or disappear.
 
Last edited:
Wagers on whether Pillsbury_Dope_Boy responds or not? =D

I don't want to make assumptions but it seems to be the modus operandi for people defending Trump to either backpedal or disappear.

In fairness I didn't exactly make it sound like there was going to be much for him to comment on.

Still, my bet is that he'll respond eventually.
 
"... the worst thing in the world, is that people come into this country to sell drugs ... "

(paraphrasing)

moments ago on CNN

what a great moment to tune into.

and then

"... see what happens on February 15th ..." = PROMISING THE SECOND SHUT DOWN

TRUMP IS THE SHUT DOWN PRESIDENT.

Predictions: economy will fall to pre-Obama levels as some Federal workers go without paychecks again and again and again and again ...
Trump keeps his arms crossed out of fear of what will happen to him if he doesn't go along with the occupied governments' agenda ...
A yet unwaged war will erupt in the political science climate that will dwarf what Russia has done ...
Expect the market to go up again, in maybe, 2022? ...

Thoughts?
 
Donald Trump jeopardizes national security by ignoring intelligence community: Today's talker

USA TODAY, USA TODAY Opinion 4 hours ago

Trump is making us less safe

By Karen Hobert Flynn

Americans expect and deserve a president who puts the nation and its security before his personal interests and whims. President Donald Trump's approach to international affairs has been indifferent at best, and at worst, openly hostile to more than 70 years of bipartisan agreement on global alliances that have kept us safe. His fascination with dictators and so-called strong men is dangerous. The president's well-documented lies and exaggerations are disturbing and unprecedented, but when he openly ignores and ridicules the findings of the U.S. intelligence community, he puts American lives at risk, diminishes our role in the world, and makes us all less safe.

In several cases, U.S. intelligence has been at odds with Trump and his public statements. Trump has, for reasons still under federal investigation, chosen to listen to Russian President (and former KGB officer) Vladimir Putin rather than top U.S. intelligence officials. The investigation dates to Russian interference in the 2016 election. Heads of the major intelligence agencies say that the interference is ongoing, and that foreign actors will view the 2020 presidential election as an opportunity to advance their interests.

On Tuesday, U.S. intelligence officials alerted the country that China and Russia are working together to challenge U.S. leadership. Whereas Trump has indicated that we are headed for peace with North Korea, U.S. intelligence officials reported that North Korea isn't giving up nuclear weapons.

Intelligence leaders have not identified a security crisis at the U.S. border, even as the president has said that he is considering an emergency declaration forcing the military to build his border wall. Intelligence has warned that the Islamic State is capable of attacking America despite Trump's declaration that ISIS has been defeated.

Lastly, U.S. officials have said that Iran is actually not trying to build a nuclear weapon in violation of an international agreement with the United States, which is the opposite of what the Trump administration has stated and then walked back.

One read of these circumstances is that Trump wishes to be allies with the very countries U.S. intelligence is most concerned about. Whether the president wishes to acknowledge it or not, U.S. intelligence has made it clear that the U.S. role in the world is on the cusp of being seriously challenged. He is making us less safe.

The intelligence community's work is vital to our national security and our international interests. Congress must be ready to step in to prevent further erosion of our global standing. No judicial confirmation or tax cut is worth jeopardizing the safety of our democracy. Every member of Congress must put country before party — Americans, our global allies and all freedom-loving people around the world are watching.

Karen Hobert Flynn is president of Common Cause. You can follow her on Twitter: @KHobertFlynn

What others are saying

Josh Campbell, CNN.com: "President Donald Trump's true motives in destroying public confidence in the national security sector remain unknown. ... Whatever the rationale behind his effort, his attacks risk undermining the morale and effectiveness of the intelligence professionals charged with keeping this nation safe. For their part, it was refreshing to see the agency heads conjure the courage to speak the truth, regardless of whether their professional assessments ran counter to the president's."

Cindy Otis,Twitter: "Any narrative painting (Tuesday) as some kind of battle between the intelligence community and the president is absolutely incorrect. The IC was asked to provide its analysis and it did. If IC analysis conflicts with the administration's assessment, it's because facts point ... in a different direction. The IC analyzes all intelligence available and makes its best judgment on issues. If a policymaker asks for its analysis, IC will give it regardless of what the administration wants or how the president personally feels. ... Honestly, anyone who tries to tell you the IC is at war with the president is just trying to get invited to appear on a cable news show. The IC is doing its job. It was here before this president, and it will be here long after he's gone."

The Washington Post,editorial: "Will overseas adversaries be emboldened by the sight of a president who feels compelled to publicly disparage his own intelligence community of 17 agencies and more than 100,000 people? Daniel Coats, the director of national intelligence, and Gina Haspel, the CIA director, deserve credit for not ducking the responsibility to brief Congress and the nation forthrightly on the threats they see, even though they must have known Trump was likely to disagree. They did leave one serious threat off their list: that of a president mired in his own delusions who refuses to hear the truth."
What our readers are saying

So President Donald Trump is smarter than the collective intelligence agencies. Trump supporters, is there anyone Trump is not smarter than? How do you not see the craziness in his comments?

— Paul Goldblatt

Once again, Trump belittles and disrespects our intelligence agencies. But he believes anything Russian President Vladimir Putin tells him. The crisis in the U.S. is Trump himself.

— Michael Q. McFadden

Of course Trump disputes his intelligence chiefs. If it's an answer Trump doesn't like, they must be wrong, because Trump has a very large brain and is the smartest person in the room, always.

— Bruce Miller

Even if Trump is right, it's kind of weird (and not at all helpful) to publicly call out your intelligence agencies. Like any successful sports organization, you keep that stuff in-house.

— Marley Denver

https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-jeopardizes-national-security-210513367.html
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top