TERRIFIED about presentation

[suessmayr]

But guys I just don't agree. And I think that this is really the crucial point for me - not being subjectively convinced that there is anything unreasonable about my fears. Of course, logically, we can say "yes but so what if you spew/sweat/freak out and have to leave the room? You're not gonna die". But isn't that a bit like saying "so what if you get raped? You're still alive". That would seem to imply that the only thing we should care about is whether we live or die, which is obviously not true. My concern is looking like a little bitch, or like someone who's up to something.

So let's accept that my fear is not of death or lasting physical injury. It's of humiliation/judgement. Is that unreasonable? I feel like I've been going in circles for weeks. I wish my fear was of spiders or sheep, because then it would be both 1) unreasonable and 2) unlikely to ever affect me. But as things are my fear is (or seems) both 1) reasonable and 2) almost certain to affect me every day of my life.

And try as I might, I cannot cultivate complete indifference towards this shit. Every time I'm prevented from doing something I want to do it affects me in a huge way. Sometimes I take days to recover from the utter humiliation that accompanies such intense panic.

 

[n3ophy7e]

Look man, I totally understand where you are coming from, really I do, because I have the same fears and the same thoughts leading up to performances and presentations etc. I am definitely not saying that your fears are unreasonable, at no point has that been my attitude. Your fears are completely reasonable and valid. However that is not to say that the thoughts and concerns you have are 100% true, or guaranteed of actually occurring. But let me ask you this. Do you agree that your fears are a manifestation of your own thoughts and concerns? Or do you actually know for a fact that these things will definitely occur when you do your presentation?

I often suffer from crippling anxiety at night about things like people breaking in to my house and attacking me. I know those things haven't actually happened to me but with the way my brain is processing the thoughts and fears, to me at the time it is VERY real to me, and very distressing. But the actual reality of those things occurring are slim to none. It's a similar kind of thing to what you're doing in your head.

My concern is looking like a little bitch, or like someone who's up to something.

You are creating this assumption based on your fears. That is not to say that you are being unreasonable by thinking these things, because after all, that is why anxiety and phobias are so difficult to deal with. These things that you are telling yourself are very real to you. But I can guarantee you that no-one in the room will think either of those things about you.

*edit* I just wanted to emphasise that I'm not trying to frustrate or upset you seussmayr, but I'm just trying to offer an alternative way of thinking. Maybe if you could just challenge your current thought patterns you might be able to think about the situation in a different way and come up with some alternative anticipatory thoughts/emotions to have regarding your presentation. Don't just resign yourself to the fact that it's going to be overwhelming/terrifying/horrible etc, because you don't have to feel that way

 

[Allein]

I'm so sorry if my comments have come across in the wrong way, like many others here and in the wider world we can identify, to some extent with your feelings.

In many ways you are answering your own questions....whats the worst that can happen...well I'm pretty sure you aren't going to get raped so that analogy is just driven by your anxiety and panic.

For me the big question would always be, what would be more damaging for me in the long term:-

1.) Don't do it and deal with the feeling of failure.

2.) Do it and accept that it may end in the worst possible scenario, I think its important that you have a think about what this really is, get down to the specifics so you can really weigh it all up.

I don't know you, but i do know people are far more resilient than they give themselves credit for and that mostly people just can't see what your going through internally. recently i did a 2 day business trip on my own whilst not in a good mental state and on meds as well as still drinking heavily. I lost my phone at the airport, lost my bag at the station and collapsed in the hotel, but the day after my return had glowing reports for my performance in some very trick and technical customer meetings.

My advice is always to dig in and do it anyway, for me its almost always the better option than backing out which just feeds my feelings of inadequacy and self loathing.

What ever you choose best of luck from the other side of the pond

 

[Bojangles69]

Suessmayr I have to get your aim or yahoo messenger I'm still not sure what kinda anxiety you are dealing with.

Its really a lot simpler though then people make it seem I just find its a matter of finding the right meds that work for you, and knowing what amounts will leave you clear headed but relaxed enough to give a speech.

Inderal like I said will block "body anxiety". I assumed that was the majority of what you had going on, sweats, shaking, stuttering, this is all physically rooted anxiety (although inderal does very little for sweating compared to something like clonidine, inderal is more for slowing down heart rate and stopping shaking of limbs, while having minor infuences on sweating, although for me my sweating was never the biggest issue it was the shaking, and thats why I recommend the inderal cause it conquers any bit of shaking). Inderal should stop most of that stuff. And I see this a lot where people take inderal and ask "is this shit even working", if your anxiety is caused by high blood pressure, racing heart, shaking, inderal is going to stop it. If its mental, inderal will feel like its doing nothing. Most people have combinations of mental/physical anxiety however and thats why its not always easy to solve in one sitting.

If your anxiety is caused by natural insecurities, paranoia, paws, or is just mainly psychological, and those are the roots of your anxiety (where the majority of it is being caused) then inderal will do almost nothing for you.
And like you are already saying benzos can relax you, but make it damn near impossible to focus.

For that type of scenario you don't need better drugs, you need different drugs.
And for psychological rooted anxiety, during a presentation setting, I tend to favor kanna leaf A LOT over something like benzos. But kanna leaf is a lot more effective when mixed with certain things.

All I know is I use to have TERRIBLE panic disorder when it came to giving speeches. I went through A LOT with this shit, already told you I tried taking my life over it. And now before I have to give speeches, I know precisely where the anxiety is coming from, and what type of cocktail I need to wip up.

For physical anxiety things that work great:
inderal
atenelol
clonidine

For psychological anxiety:
kanna leaf
psychotropin
fresh passion flower leaf (much weaker than kanna but mixes very well)
kratom tea for alertness/confidence
small doses of soma
small doses of benzos
and last but not least something that always helped me a lot, 2 shots of alcohol. No more no less.
Would give me just enough of a clear headed buzz to feel confident and talkative, along with the kanna
and inderal nothing could stop me. And this was after trying to commit suicide over a fucking speech so I can
attest to you that I had it just as bad if not worse than you.

These are ALL wonderful meds/herbs for people with panic disorder or social phobia for presentations.
The main issue however is finding what mix works for you specifically. And I suggest starting low with everything,
mixing things around a bit, and learning how each one effects you. But I feel like with that list I can almost guarantee some type of cocktail would work for you.

For me it was 60mg inderal - 1 hour before speech (you NEED to time it out if you take it too late or too soon its NOT going to work as well as it should)
.5gms kanna leave chewed for 15mins about 20 mins before speech
and if I didn't feel chill enough at that point 2 shots of alcohol set me straight. I was always alert from the kanna, body anxiety sedated from the inderal, and the 2 shots for any bit of mental anxiety the kanna didn't cover.
Even if you take those 3 and still feel a bit anxious, I find that mixes of low amounts of different drugs generally work much better than taking 1 huge dose of 1 drug alone like a benzo.

Clonidine is also very useful however you should develop some tolerance to it before you start giving speeches on it, same with benzos. Clonidine can have near benzo effects (slurring & out of it) but you'll find small doses can work very effectively when mixed with other things.
I really would like to see you conquer this because I KNOW you can. I was the biggest fucking mess you could possibly imagine, and over and over and over I had problems being caused from this fear that took over my life. Just like you said, NOTHING ELSE in life compared to the stress this one fear was causing. But you CAN fix it. Shit, there are so many options you have available in terms of finding a "cocktail" that works for you. Sometimes you just need to do some trial and error work.

Keep us posted! - Bo

 

[suessmayr]

My shrink is taking me off Inderal because it's making me desperately depressed and suicidal. Last few days I have been totally unable to function, just staring at walls and hating myself.

My shrink also - surprisingly - offered to give me some Serepax (oxazepam) for uni. This is really strange as he's very anti-benzo, especially with someone like me who abused them previously. When he offered I said "to be honest I don't think it will help" - I said this because, as you guys may remember, I took 10mg valium before my last tute and it did more harm than good. He suggested that using a smaller dose and a different benzo could be the key. What do you guys think? Also, how long before the event would a benzo ideally be taken? Last time I took it about 30min before, so maybe that was too soon. Maybe I need to let the intense, confusing beginning period pass and aim to have less than peak plasma concentrations - you know how after benzos you always feel chill if not exactly high?

I'm seeing a dermatologist in a few days to find out about the best meds for sweating and I'm having bloods taken tomorrow to see that nothing's wrong with me.

 

[n3ophy7e]

Also, how long before the event would a benzo ideally be taken? Last time I took it about 30min before, so maybe that was too soon.

This is something you should ask your psych. He sounds pretty cool, can you perhaps give him a call to ask him this??

I'm seeing a dermatologist in a few days to find out about the best meds for sweating and I'm having bloods taken tomorrow to see that nothing's wrong with me.

I'm sure nothing is actually wrong re: excess sweating, but it's good to get it checked out anyway. I'm a BIG big sweater in both summer and winter (summer is excrutiating for me, for this very reason), and it's often quite embarrassing. But I've just forced myself to stop over-thinking/caring about if anyone is noticing my sweat etc. I've had all my bloods checked for this as well and nothing is wrong. I just sweat heaps :D

 

[suessmayr]

Yeah I'm seeing him more to find out about topical remedies and medicines specific to dermatology. It shouldn't really be relevant whether the sweating is a physiological or a psychological issue - topical meds just treat symptoms.

Also - a few of you guys seemed concerned to point out that you didn't mean to offend me. Noone offended me! I was actually hoping that someone would say "your fears are unreasonable" - in my view the biggest obstacle to my recovery is my view that there is nothing unreasonable about my thinking. It would be a very good thing if someone could say "hey! that doesn't make sense for this reason...".

 

[Tommyboy]

I recently took a class in which all I really did was presentations. They had to be 10 mins long, and I was not allowed to use any note cards. I have horrible anxiety and was tapering off of benzos at the time. I had considered speaking to the professor about it, but he just wasn't the type of person that would understand the situation.

Anyway, I ended up doing fine after the first 2 presentations. I agree with others that the more prepared you are, the better you will feel. One of the things that I did that really helped, was really know maybe 2 points that you are discussing. I really read into a few points, and I was comfortable going into detail on them. The rest of the stuff I kinda skimmed over, but it seemed like I only did that since it was timed and I had to go over them quickly since I had spent a lot of time explaining those 2 things that I really knew.

Presenting to your tutor seems like your best bet though, but I hope my advice can help either way.

 

[Allein]

This is just from my experience and views in the UK may be different but I wouldn't jump on the medication bandwagon if you can avoid it.

My experience over the last couple of year with various ADs and anxiety meds has been a disaster and I'm not convinced they helped me overall.

I'm coming to the conclusion that along side professional help counseling / CBT etc will be better in the long term.

I had high hopes for ADs, especially SSRIs, given my history of MDMA abuse but they have been a disaster and just made me very ill to the point I've stopped taking them (and I've tried more than just SSRIs)

Be really careful relying on benzos to deal with these issues, I'm learning the hard way on this one and currently have a 100mg + a day habit for Diazepam that is going to be painful to deal with.

I only apologies because I don't know you so don't want to sound like I'm judging you or your decisions, but of you really want my best shot at what you should do its what I said....Dig in and do it, fuck what people think about your performance you gave it your best shot...feel good about that.

Best Wishes

 

[suessmayr]

I had a benzo habit previously so I know how they can become harmful. I've been clean for about 6-8 months and have no desire to go back. At that time I never used benzos for anxiety, at least not intentionally; I only took them for fun/pleasure. Maybe it was so pleasurable for me because it was so effective at treating my anxiety.

I'm picking up on this idea that I should be able to just 'deal with it' and do the presentation. If it was merely an internal debate that characterised my panic, that would be doable, but when I sweat because I'm nervous it simply isn't something I can ignore or 'deal with'. It just keeps going and going and there's virtually nothing I can do to help it. If it was all internal I could suck it up but it's hard when you look like you're about to burst.

 

[Allein]

IMO your getting way to anxious about the sweating thing, just coose clothes that dont show it up to bad and have seomthing to hand to dry your hands and mop your brow.

I'm telling you most people will not notice and if they do they won't think much of it, people pay so little attention to such things.

 

[swilow]

I think you may be concerning yourself too much with what other people think. I used to do similar until I realised that a) its impossible for me to do anything but assume what another persons thoughts are, and b) even if I somehow know there thoughts and opinions, does it even matter?

I used to really fret about people thinking I was coming off as nervous and confused; the worry that this involved prevented me from entering situations where I felt vulnerable, and if I was having a conversation and began feeling nervous, I would imagine the other party's thoughts, usually totally condemning me and mocking/laghing at me. However, if I was talking to someone and I noticed they became nervous or awkward, my own judgements of them were really mild, usually simply an observation. Extrapolating from that, I now assume that peoples judgment of me will be no more critical then my judgment of others.

Why does it matter if you panic during this presentation? People will know that you are anxious, but everyone is when doing this sort of thing. Its assumed. Your behaviour won't appear as strange or odd; perhaps verging on the extreme, but nothing really unusual. And even if people are to judge your behaviour, why does it matter? You cannot change a persons thoughts...

You were willing to forgoe this presentation. It clearly doesn't matter all that much to you, so why do you care if you stuff it up?

Please don't take what I'm saying in a bad way. I have had terrible anxiety for years, PTSD and epilepsy, making me prone to humungous panic attacks and spontaneous black outs. The idea of being under any pressure was terrifying for me, and my life got really really shit. The only thing that has helped me is acceptance of situations; not fighting it, surrendering to it. From this I became aware that my anxiety and panic were born of resistance and the constant battle between what I need to do and what I am afraid to do. Its gotten so that I began to enjoy putting myself into frightening situations, which fed back to itself by rendering those frightening situations non-frightening...

Anyhow, take care...

 

[Allein]

You never said when this nwas happenng (if you did apologies).

Anyhow what ever path you choose best of luck and ket us know how it went

 

[highhooked]

I'm telling you most people will not notice and if they do they won't think much of it, people pay so little attention to such things.

Quoted for the fuckin truth. Seriously everyones got there own thing to worry about and honestly, no one will probably even care what you are saying. Think about what you do when someone is presenting.

I know im usually looking through my notes or doing other shit. What i know for sure is im not looking at the person presenting the whole time and im DEF not examining them.

Worry about the physical symptoms is just making your anxiety worse.

 

[Ixchellian]

.....Seriously everyones got there own thing to worry about and honestly, no one will probably even care what you are saying. Think about what you do when someone is presenting.

I know im usually looking through my notes or doing other shit. What i know for sure is im not looking at the person presenting the whole time and im DEF not examining them.

Worry about the physical symptoms is just making your anxiety worse.

On the contrary..... while mandatory presentations are admittedly an activity that most would rather skip..... there are plenty of occasions where the people are willingly paying money to attend, and are quite interested in the subject material.

After over 1k hrs of giving PowerPoint presentations, I found there is one sure thing that an audience can do to totally unnerve the presenter...... and that is for people in the audience to be obviously not paying attention, and then catch them trying to fake the funk upon review. It's not hard to spot, and it's disrespectful.

I know presentations are normally as slow as a molasses shit, but at the least give the presenter a bit of courtesy by actually paying attention to the speaker for the duration...... even if you're not really listening. It's really not that much to ask, and its also very likely that the poor guy on the podium doesn't want to be there either.

Presentations aren't just one-way..... even the mandatory boring-as-fuck PowerPoint ones. But the experience can be made a lot less stressful and boring for all concerned, if a little positive interaction occurs.

 

[Dave]

I just wanted to cover the one point that you were making in the previous page, in that it is (in your opinion) not unreasonable to consider the worst case scenario. IME, one's imagination tends to delve far further into the 'worst' part of that phrase, than the 'possible' part. All sorts of horrible things could happen, sure. But the likelihood of them happening is minimal. The most likely negative outcome is that you might slip up a bit, stammer a little, or maybe freeze for a bit. Very few people are not uncomfortable making presentations, and those that are tend to have worked quite hard (whether they know it or not) to get to that point.

Get a good powerpoint setup going, practise it a few times in front of somebody-- for pacing if nothing else-- , and just do it. If you don't face your fears, they'll crawl over your back. And I say that as someone who has struggled with fear and anxiety for the bulk of my life. If I can do it, chances are you can too.

 

[Ixchellian]

Oh..... before I forget....

Never lock your knees while giving a presentation, or having to stand in one spot for an extended period of time. I've seen guys literally fall-out cold from locking their knees up..... and it happens quite suddenly.
I forget exactly how it happens, only that it has something to do with restricting circulation.... and is especially a risk in very warm enviroments; like a crowded boardroom, class, or outdoor ceremony. Simply remembering to subtly shift weight from one leg to the other periodically helps a lot in staying relaxed.

 

[swilow]

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain"

Yeah, I'm quoting Dune, but its an excellent refrain, especially this bit- "Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain". Fear cannot exist without you. Fear is invisible and only attains some sort of reality when you fight it and try and force it away. If you accept it, it leaves, because fear only exists when you keep rejecting it. Embrace it, and it will leave.

 

[Ixchellian]

^----- helps, if you have a bit o' the Voice too.

 

[suessmayr]

Thanks everyone, Willow especially.

Considering that I've just received so much fantastic advice I feel a bit sheepish saying that I no longer have to do the presentation - god fucken bless student services. They agreed to receive a submission.

My anxiety is out of control and so I feel like this is what I need right now. I went to a performance last night at the opera house. I've been there literally hundreds of times before, but last night I could not bear to be there because I was in the front row of a box and felt eyes on me. I had such a fucking intense panic attack - I was bathed in sweat - that I had to leave the show. You can't come back in during a performance so I missed half of a show I paid several hundred dollars for. I was only able to go back during the interval by taking valium and getting the staff to move me to some shitty seat much further from the stage.

How the fuck am I supposed to live like this?