TERRIFIED about presentation

^I'm sorry to hear that man. Panic attacks are horrible; public ones are even worse. They feel completely unmanageable. I think that panic attacks are manageable, but it takes practise and willpower. Breath exercises can combat nearly all the symptons; hyperventilating can cause almost all the panic symptoms (from parathesia/pins and needle, a sensation of being smothered/hard to breath, sweating, dizziness, shaking/termbling, clamminess, chest pain/heart palpitations, etc.) so if you learn to regulate your breathing and do it slowly, you can actually stop a panic attack before it begins, and reduce the length of it (and intensity) during the episode.

Have you done any counselling? I would suggest that cognitive behavioural therapy might help you. The idea of cognitive distortions is something thats helped me incredibly. Cognitive Distortions

I'm curious; you mentioned that you used benzo's regularly a while back- how did you quit? Slow taper or just c/t?

Peace :)
 
I got into benzos after discovering how great they were for managing comedowns. Also because I'm such an anxious person I think they were just inherently pleasurable for me - more so than they would be for normal people. After playing heavily with mainly temaze and xanax I leveled out on a valium dose for about a year. I tapered it down very slowly and jumped off at about 1mg diazepam.

I felt so defeated at the opera because it was like the only thing that helped me was fucking valium. I've been doing all the CBT stuff seriously for about 6 months now and with only minimal results. I love how clear my mind is without benzos and I'll absolutely top myself before going back to them on a daily basis.

Maybe I'm all fucked up still from stopping bupe, but it's been like 60 days. Last couple of weeks I've been drinking every evening which is something I've never done before. Does anyone know whether seroquel would help with anxiety/panic?
 
^Seroquel might help a bit, but noweher near as much as a benzo. I'd personally suggest that you use neither of them. Also, drinking- when I was a heavy drinker, I was almost always nervous/panicky/depressed. Try and stop it for at least a few weeks.

I felt so defeated at the opera because it was like the only thing that helped me was fucking valium.

Its disheartening when we have to do this sort of thing, but be happy- you actually went to the opera. A lot of extremely anxious people seem to do with little in the way of going out to have fun.

I think you should try and really deeply examine the reasons you feel this way. At the opera, why did you think there was "eyes on you"? What did that mean to you? Are you sure this was happening? If it really was, how do you know what people were seeing and thinking?

Cognitive therapy has helped me more then any medication, lifestyle choice, spiritual practise. Its allowed me space in my own mind and freedom to live my life in the way I want to, not the way I'm afraid not to...
 
Wow your anxiety is on another level. Im so sorry you have to go through this.

Mayb get some kratom and only use for emergency situations and same with benzos. From my understanding it takes a while to experience any real withdrawl from kratom. Then if you switch from kratom to benzos and do a on and off type deal only when necessary you may get by without becoming dependent on either of them.

There are also a bunch of other herbals that you could give a try like kava or st johns wort. Im just throwin ideas out there cause i feeeel for you. Good luck.
 
^Kratom can be pretty anxiogenic in my limited experience. YMMV. I'd still put money on breath exercises/meditation for anxiety any day. It works and theres no side effects at all...;)
 
But guys I just don't agree. And I think that this is really the crucial point for me - not being subjectively convinced that there is anything unreasonable about my fears. Of course, logically, we can say "yes but so what if you spew/sweat/freak out and have to leave the room? You're not gonna die". But isn't that a bit like saying "so what if you get raped? You're still alive". That would seem to imply that the only thing we should care about is whether we live or die, which is obviously not true. My concern is looking like a little bitch, or like someone who's up to something.

So let's accept that my fear is not of death or lasting physical injury. It's of humiliation/judgement. Is that unreasonable? I feel like I've been going in circles for weeks. I wish my fear was of spiders or sheep, because then it would be both 1) unreasonable and 2) unlikely to ever affect me. But as things are my fear is (or seems) both 1) reasonable and 2) almost certain to affect me every day of my life.

And try as I might, I cannot cultivate complete indifference towards this shit. Every time I'm prevented from doing something I want to do it affects me in a huge way. Sometimes I take days to recover from the utter humiliation that accompanies such intense panic.

You're exactly right man, this is exactly what I was going to post to this thread. It IS rational to feel some anxiety, you just have to know how to release it. This is the key to moving forward IMO.

What I think will help a lot is practicing confident gestures and posture. I find I have much less anxiety while stretching out my stomach in a dominant posture, I think because of the mindset I have while doing so... :p Also, hand gestures convey a lot of confidence and are fun to throw in.
 
Willow - When you say 'heavy drinker', how heavy exactly do you mean? I've heard that hangovers can cause rebound anxiety, but given that I'm only having 2-3 beers at night I don't know whether I should expect this. Still, I've been having them earlier and earlier and not finishing all my work before I have them. I might ask in OD how long an alcohol habit would take to develop. I always hated alcohol but now that I'm committed to staying off benzos and opiates (both of which I have less than 2ft away from me) alcohol seems very fucking convenient.

I find that I always run into problems with the 'self-scrutiny' stuff. Maybe I'm just too skeptical because of all the law and philosophy but I just find that for any self-help idea there are always a dozen ideas opposed to it. I feel, when I try to do CBT, exactly like I feel when I read religion or deal with religious people - viz., like I'm being expected to just accept things for no especially good reason. I think CBT needs a certain 'leap of faith' which I'm finding really hard to achieve.

Highhooked - do you know what some good herbal remedies for anxiety are? Is kava one? I can't take St John's Wort as it's serotonergic and I'm on 2 (fucking useless) anti-depressants already. I live in Australia and kratom (like everything else) is illegal. And I don't think my shrink will give me benzos on a regular basis. I think he just offered for the presentation. So I'd have to be doctor shopping again.

Pegasus - I know what you mean with the postures. But for me it's all about how I must seem to others, so postures which are too noticeable would probably just increase my anxiety.
 
Damiana (better not be scheduled in australia) and passionflower is quite the fuckin combo =D. Must use together.

I have only tried it a few times so im not sure how it would work long term but i dont see why not.

Edit: Oops i remember what you said about the st johns wort and i beleive passion flower may be the same...not sure though. Tis a good combo though. So if it doesnt i highly recommend it.
 
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Damiana is great! But I think passion flower is about 100 times better (and st johns wort is like neither of them, its a totally useless herb if you want my real opinion lol). And one more thing about herbs like damiana, passion flower, kanna, etc. Lots of people have opinions on these herbs and I notice the larger deal of people tend to not take them seriously.
And this is because there are TONS of sellers selling shit product, either old (alkaloids wear off) or immature (alkaloids never even started growing in the plant) or its just a shit strain or the wrong strain of the plant all together. You tend to get this more with kanna and passion flower though as damiana as a very specific appearance to it. But Kanna is easily replaced with weaker strains that look like kanna, but don't have the effects of kanna, similar to passion flower.

However let me note, I have taken true quality passion flower before, and the feeling was NOTHING like I ever expected from an herb. Same with kanna too. Although damiana I never got shit from in tea form it was prob just bad leaf (although smoked is a different story). But that cup of passion flower tea felt like I took 4 valiums, I obviously took too much. I was sedated as fuck, relaxed beyond belief and kanna had an even stronger feeling once I found a good place to get it. Theres just way too many scammers trying to sell these leaves which is unfortunate. Because I tend to rank something like quality kanna leaf above any shit ssri I've ever took, and any benzo I've ever taken. It has a feeling like "clear headed extacy" its so hard to explain. It comes over your body and its immediate and intense, but its social in nature. It makes you talk, gives you energy, relaxes the fuck out of you and its so hard to explain but the feeling but its amazing.

And the best thing about these herbs and they are known to have no side effects at all. Thats at least untill you venture over to herbs like kratom which have their own withdrawal syndromes.
Still, if you want a good example of what a synergistic mix of quality herbs can do to your body, get a bottle of psychotropin. Its not cheap, but one of the most reliable OTC supplements an anxious person can possibly take, and theres NO placebo effect involved. The herbs I'm talking about are the types you FEEL, unlike something like kava kava which even the best brands around are still weak as fuck.

Also, what PEGASUS said is very important. You can NOT tell yourself that these fears are "irrational". They may be irrational in a conscious state, but our bodies are evolutionary designed to handle stress this way. No longer to we have the panic stricken states of running away from a lion thats trying to eat us, BUT our bodies still haven't evolved in a world where theres no real danger (or at least the danger that there use to be). Because of this our bodies are always looking for ways to trigger our "flight or flight" mode. Its a mechanism that exists within us that has very little use like it use to millions of years ago. So this system in humans is outdated, and imo very unstable in some people.

For some people very small things that don't seem to pose danger, can trigger off the feeling like a gun is in our face, or like a lion is chasing us. It IS rational maybe not to you but to your body it is. Because now in days everything is done socially in sophisticated ways. Instead of getting abolished from your tribe, and fending in the wilderness till you get eaten, we have stuck up friends that ignore us, ostracize us if we look like a fool giving a speech, and people begin to assume you are weak. You can lose friends to shit like this as I've already went through it. Thats the survival part of this whole process, social acceptance. Your body responds that way because a part of it senses on some very core level that if you are not accepted in society (by giving a good speech) that society may abolish you and you may be left to fend in this world w/out friends or anyone that accepts you. Reading that in this forum in this setting, SURE it seems irrational, but I can pose many circumstances to validate why its really not irrational at all in terms of how our bodies percieve it.
Your body works both on a very primalistic level and a very sophisticated one. The fear you feel during a speech is the reptile side of your brain saying "if you mess this up there will be great social consequence later in life" (maybe you can't get a job and can't afford to eat because your fear of people is so extreme that you grow incapable of being around people) its an exageration sure, but just because the chance actually exists, your body is wired to make you aware that that chance exists.
What I'm saying might be a bit confusing, but there is some site in the UK (I'm in the US) dedicated to panic disorder, has done more for panic disorder than any US sites I've ever seen, and I wanna try and find it for you. It goes deep into the evolutionary reasons why so many people have problems giving speeches. And it really explains it in such a clear way that you will understand finally "this fear is totally rational". It is more than rational. Humans have had this wiring in their brains for millions upon millions of years, just that in certain people its exagerated.

Anyway although its good to have an attitude of "I'm gonna conquer this no matter what" I'm not going to try telling you this is something you can fix just by thinking your way through it. Because if thats something that could actually work you would have already succeeded by now. Although I do believe you need to learn more about your body, your family history (any history of hypertension or highblood pressure or heart disease in your family?) and yourself in general. It took me a few years to solve my own problems with this and let me tell you when I was going through it this is something that completely consumed my life every day I was alive. I was always thinking about it, always obsessing, and yeh to one degree it made it worse, but if I didn't have that type of attitude in the first place, I don't think I would have ever overcame my own situation and be in the position I am, where you can now call me to give a speech any time any day and I simply do NOT give a fuck anymore.

Thats where I am now when only 5 years ago I laid in a hospital bed nearly dying after one situation went as bad as it possibly could have. So when your body is reacting that way its trying to tell you something, and that something is "I really need to figure out how to overcome this". That involves experimenting with meds, different mixtures, different meds altogether, trying behavoir therapies like systematic desensitization (can you give a speech in front of 1 person? then 2 people?... then 3 people?.. etc) read about NLP, browse the web, and be diligent in your efforts. But DO NOT and I really mean this DO NOT force yourself into situations if you genuinely feel like you can't handle them.

There is absolutely no need to be in that type of situation in the first place. Communicate with school that when you tell them you have an issue giving speeches YOU HAVE AN ISSUE GIVING SPEECHES. I never had to give speeches if I didn't feel I was ready and I'm personally very pissed off that your school can actually try to force you into doing something like that. If the disablities deparment is trying to "compromise" by saying "Ok we're gonna help you but you still have to give the speech", thats NOT a compromise at all. Thats them not listening to you. If anything like that ever happens in the future you go to the HEAD or the DEAN of your school and you tell them "I am paying good money to go to this school and I expect to be treated like a fucking human being". Ok well don't curse but my point is when I started to stick up for myself, and accept the fact that I had a legitimate problem, and not just some common bs anxiety, thats also when I started to make leaps and bounds in improving my situation. Like "yes! people are finally listening to me because they can tell that I know myself better than they ever fucking will". Don't settle for anything less than that.

You CAN get through this problem. It may be very hard, you may need to be very persistent, but you CAN absolutely do it if you believe in yourself and you set clear tiny goals for yourself. I also use to go to toastmasters meetings in my area, I could never give a speech at them, but I told them I had panic disorder and asked if it would be possible just to sit in their meetings and get tips about how to give a good speech.

And although I never gave a speech when I was going there, I DID learn a TON about body language, how to handle anxiety, and how to handle your thoughts in the high stress environment that speeches are.

Dedicate yourself. Respect yourself, and you CAN get past this problem. You still just have a lot to learn about yourself but I do believe in you and I do believe you can do this one day. Maybe not tommorow, or next week, but if you take it slow, and go about it intelligently, you can absolutely succeed.

G/luck! - Bo
 
Bo - how is it that you're now so free from all the shit? You're totally right - it is all-consuming. And it seems to be getting worse. I struggle now with even the simplest things. I think that the constant anxiety has made me feel worthless and depressed, and that now because I'm depressed I feel in advance like I can't achieve any of these things. I struggle to catch a bus, sit next to someone in a lecture, talk to even my best friends. But now I'm depressed to so I don't want to do any of these things. Before I felt strong and determined, now I just feel exhausted and piss weak and I don't give a fuck.

I think there are so many people at uni who don't have panic as such but simply dislike things like presentations. I mean, who doesn't dislike presentations? I think that for this reason the academic staff is skeptical of requests for exemption. There are so many people who go through uni without engaging with anyone or ever doing more than they have to. It must be hard to tell people like this, who don't give a shit, from people who absolutely do give a shit, or want to be able to engage, but feel essentially disabled, like me.

There's a health food store near me and I may call up to ask about some of these herbs. I went there the other day but couldn't remain in the shop and so I had to leave without speaking to anyone.
 
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