Opioids Tapering Poppy Pods, anyone with me, been there?

[mydrugbuddy]

Cheers Man. That is what i NEEDED to hear. So after about 3 days on a reduced dose i will start to feel fine again ? Your schedule looks too aggressive to me, I think I'll be taking it much easier on myself when I get round to starting. Ive just realised i got my sums totally wrong, my daily total is actually 58 grams of ground powder steeped in warm water, which consists of a morning 18g, another 18g at lunch and the final 22g in the evening.

I didnt know about the Loperamide and all that before, but believe me Ive been doing a LOT of research this time round, so im far better prepared. Should i be expecting stomach upsets during the taper, or only at the end, after the final jump ?

Thanks again for your support, and I'll do my best to help you through your Kratom taper.

 

[podsnomo]

If you take a slight taper and stay with it, you should feel pretty OK through it. It's different for everyone, but I'd expect you'll have some very minor things to contend with through the taper. You won't feel 100% after 3 days on a reduced dose. Maybe you'll feel 85%, but that's better than 100% below zero!

If you eat well and exercise, and take the loperamide ONLY when you begin to get the shits, which will likely be nearer to the end, you'll do great. Most people, and this was true for me, have the most problems when they get close to the jump. For those doses, I'd expect you might have problems when you get down to something like 3g/3g/4g. At that point you'll be hitting the loperamide daily, and maybe think about 30-45mg of DXM at that point too.

Also, with 3 doses, you'll want to decide which dose you want to rid yourself of first.

At some point you'll want to go to 2 doses a day, but keep the total grams the same. You could consider it a drop if you want. Then lower down on the 2 doses, you'll eventually switch to one dose a day.

The more you go through those mild WDs the more your brain is adjusting and making it's own endorphin (endogenous morphine). SO try to embrace the occasional chills etc.. They all mean a step closer to freedom.

Let me know if you have more questions. I said fuck my kratom taper for today. I only started today anyway... or didn't. My gf is having a party tonight and I gotta go help her clean now. Fuck doing that in WDs!

Best,
pnm

 

[mydrugbuddy]

You've been a great help already, and that is much appreciated. I like the way you've turned the mild withdrawls into a positive thing. Half the battle for me will be getting my mind set right. I know from previous experiences of quitting cigarettes that I need to totally commit with no doubts that Im going to make it. Once I have that mind set the rest comes much easier. Guess its the same for everyone. I dont blame you for not starting today, its gonna be important to pick a time thats as good as it possibly can be.

When i start my taper i will have to grind down all the pods i have into one container and mix it all up so that the powder Im going to be working with will at least be a consistent strength throughout. Otherwise things are going to be up and down too much. With this greater consistency of strength i could in theory drop by just 1gram or even half a gram a day. Yes this would take a long time but I can take my time with this, I'm not setting any deadlines. I wonder how well this would work in practice, I guess some days there would be no noticeable difference, but then every few days I would start to feel it, and I could then wait for my body to adjust to that dose, before resuming the reductions.

 

[podsnomo]

oops

 

[podsnomo]

You've been a great help already, and that is much appreciated. I like the way you've turned the mild withdrawls into a positive thing. Half the battle for me will be getting my mind set right. I know from previous experiences of quitting cigarettes that I need to totally commit with no doubts that Im going to make it. Once I have that mind set the rest comes much easier. Guess its the same for everyone. I dont blame you for not starting today, its gonna be important to pick a time thats as good as it possibly can be.

When i start my taper i will have to grind down all the pods i have into one container and mix it all up so that the powder Im going to be working with will at least be a consistent strength throughout. Otherwise things are going to be up and down too much. With this greater consistency of strength i could in theory drop by just 1gram or even half a gram a day. Yes this would take a long time but I can take my time with this, I'm not setting any deadlines. I wonder how well this would work in practice, I guess some days there would be no noticeable difference, but then every few days I would start to feel it, and I could then wait for my body to adjust to that dose, before resuming the reductions.

Yep, getting a homogeneous mixture is key. Plus, taking that ritual out of it, of grinding every day or two, helps make it seem less like you're using and more like you're just taking your medicine/vitamins. Don't know if I said this already: it's also a good idea to weigh out your doses in advance. You could weigh out the whole taper plan and just stick too it, treating whatever symptoms pop up the best you can with OTCs, diet, and exercise. Or, you could weigh out the next dosage-drop or the next 2-3 drops.

You need to leave some wiggle room, yet still keep mentally vigilant so you don't slide into cheating, which slides back into the old habit. And remember, those uncomfortable symptoms are a good thing; they mean you're withdrawing; and feeling like shit, at least a little, is what wakes your brain up to the fact that it needs to get back to doing things the way it did before addiction.

It's been a few days drugbuddy. How's it going? Have you started a taper yet? Got one planned? Not trying to rush you. You need to be ready and wait for the right time, while knowing that there will never be a perfect time.

Best to ya man,
pods

 

[mydrugbuddy]

My taper is under way. My usage peaked at 3 x 5 heaped tablespoon doses a day (each spoonfull is about 4.5 g) + an extra top up in the evening which consisted of making a second brew out of the whole day's used pod mush, and adding another 5 heaped tablespoonfulls of fresh powder to the water from the second extraction (first time i did that i was very fucked, so a note for HRs sake, that kind of thing could be dangerous for anyone without a big tolerance, it was very strong even for someone with a tolerance, i was nodding like fuck and hallucinating bright fluorescent colours etc etc..). So all that = 20 heaped tbsps (90g) + a recycled brew of the whole days mush.

I was only on this very high dose for a short while, after totally messing up my PPT dosing during a weekend stim binge, where i became dysfunctional - locked to my pc for hours upon hours, unable to move, so forgot to take my tea for about 24 - 48 hrs (cant remember too well), and went into WD. The big doses were to try to get me 'straight' again ASAP. Before that i had leveled off @ 3 x 4.5g spoonfull teas a day + the reused mush...

Im currently down to 11.5 tbsp a day (split into 3 doses) + reusing the days mush (but not adding any extra fresh powder to it) to get an extra, although weak brew, and then adding that to my third dose of the day. It's been easy so far tbh. I've only noticed very shortlived and mild WD feelings on a few occasions so far. I have occasionally used potentiators, but i know that is totally cheating, and defeating the object of a taper, so im trying hard not to cheat too often. (mostly succeeding in that)

A couple of problems though - my technique for getting the most out of the powder has improved greatly. After the first grinding of the pods, i am sieving the results of that, so only the finest powder gets through. Im then throwing the bigger chunks and stalks etc that the sieve caught back into the grinder, to be ground down again along with the next batch of broken up pods that need grinding. And repeating this process at the end of every grind. This has definately increased the potency of the tea, as the powder I'm using to make the tea is much finer, and much more of it is getting disolved into the water, leaving less mush.....

So theres that issue, which has probably balanced out the dose reduction to quite a big extent. Also im now starting to feel just too sober in the evenings. I miss being fucked up basically. I seem to need it. So ive been compensating by taking more etizolams or pregabalins and getting into smoking synthetic cannabinoids.

There must be a deeper issue i need to address. I really dont want to be increasing my etizolam too much. Im quite proud that up until very recently id been keeping my daily dose of etizolam to just 2mg late @ night. That is now slipping, have to watch it doesnt get too out of control.

So allthough the poppy taper is going well, I'm just replacing one thing with other things, which is obviously not so good...

 

[i against i]

for me, it's a question of whether i want 2 week all around shitty feeling from pods or 3 days of a lot worse from h wds. but switching to either for a couple days before stopping seems to switch the wd outcome.

IMO the wd's aren't really the hard part, you know they finish, but your desire to use continues, and that is just fucking annoying like a fucking bitch ex who was fucking good in bed but keeps calling you so you know you could go have good times again. fuck off!

 

[mydrugbuddy]

IMO the wd's aren't really the hard part, you know they finish, but your desire to use continues, and that is just fucking annoying like a fucking bitch ex who was fucking good in bed but keeps calling you so you know you could go have good times again. fuck off!

Yes, i totally agree. What i want to be able to do, once i get myself free of the physical addiction to opis, is to be able to take them as a once a week weekend treat....

I may be being totally unrealistic with that, i may have to face the fact that i cannot control myself with opis. Several times ive quit and tried to use only @ weekends, but it has only needed one bad day @ work, or feeling bored in the evening, and im back to using mid-week again. After doing that for one night, its so easy to just repeat it again the next night, and then the whole thing starts again !!

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Yeah I think you know that's a bad idea.

Tapering using pods seems like not a bad idea due to the long duration of action but not if you're hooked on them or your habit is too large. Best to use standard medical procedure (most likely involving buprenorphine or methadone) then.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Yeah I think you know that's a bad idea. Tapering using pods seems like not a bad idea due to the long duration of action but not if you're hooked on them or your habit is too large. Best to use standard medical procedure (most likely involving buprenorphine or methadone) then.

Yes it probably is a bad idea. When i do get 'clean' off of opiates, I am confident and determined that I will do it, no harm in taking my time about it, I plan to leave it at least one month. Then consider getting something as a weekend treat. I know its playing with fire, Every time ive been through WDs i say, never again, and i mean it for a while. But when the depression of PAWS hits, its a fuckin killer. This time around I have had my docs increase my dose of my SSRI; i believe that will help me through the PAWS, even if it is only placebo.

Thanks for the suggestion of using 'standard medical procedure'....But Im not gonna be switching to bupe or methadone, ive heard that one of them at least (cant remember which one, or maybe its both of them) are absolute bastards to get off, due to hellish long long drawn out WDs. So im probably sticking to pods for my taper. I do have the option of switching to AH7921 to complete my taper, which for me at least, seems to be a non-euphoric opiate, and its a lot more convenient and accurate to dose than poppy pod tea...

 

[podsnomo]

Well guys, I spent a good amount of time on kratom, just using it as much as I liked until about a week ago or so. I got fed up with being a slave to plant, spending money I can't afford on bags of powder, and dealing with the difficulty of having to choke down more and more kratom powder. So I started a taper and am dealing with a miniature version of the hell I went through on my pods taper. I'm almost out of kratom, down to very small doses, comparatively, and when I run out I'm just kicking and dealing with whatever comes up with OTC helper meds.

Here I go again. This should be my last kick, EVER.

Wish me luck, and as ever, I wish all of you the very best.

 

[pazuzu]

You should be fine. Best of luck.

Kratom withdrawals are a walk in the park compared to poppy pods. I had a similar pod habit as yours, but I quit cold turkey and had a month from hell. I never really stopped craving opiates, but I couldn't take any because of UA's so about a year later I decided to try kratom.

I've since used kratom for a few years, using for about nine months and then quitting for three months or so. When ever I quit, I'd have terrible RLS, insomnia, and shitty mood for three days. Cravings would last about a week and that was that. Piece of cake. If you have benzos, you may not even notice the RLS or insomnia (which for me was the most irritating aspect). You'll probably shit a big painful turd at some point (it will actually be quite small!), but you shouldn't have any other gastrointestinal problems.

Weed can really help with the boredom you'll sure to feel over the next week, too.

Oh, one thing I noticed that helped lessen kratom withdrawals is skipping a dose entirely, in addition to a scheduled taper. So if you did 2 tbsp every four hours four times today, only take that dose 3 times a day tomorrow. Then the next day, go down to 1.5 tbsp four times a day. Repeat until you are doing a small dose one time every two days, then you can quit with minimal problems. Unfortunately, you won't be getting buzzed at all with this method, and you may feel cranky on days that you skip a dose.

 

[podsnomo]

Thanks for the advice. I don't give a shit if I'm cranky or not getting buzzed as long as I can function OK and am on my way to freedom from everything. I slipped up last night, and the two nights before that, and had some vodka. All this while I'm working an AA program. I'm an alcoholic and an addict. I need away from all this stuff or it's gonna burn my ass again, even worse next time. I'll take your advice and fold it in to my taper plan and see how it works. Sounds good. Thanks again.

 

[T. Calderone]

I was on opiates for several years and when I quit, my drinking got real heavy. So I traded one for the other basically. I've slowed down though I know I have to stop it altogether. Don't beat yourself up for relapsing, that's why the program is a good thing for you. Hang in there!

 

[podsnomo]

Thanks T! All I've had so far today, and I've been up for almost 5 hours, is 3.5g kratom. A fucking miracle compared to how much I was using. I got a bunch of loperamide and don't have to be back at work for about 4 hours. I'm going to wait for the WDs, see how bad they get in the next few hours, and take the loperamide, a moderate dose, and see how it does. I'll take a small dose of kratom with me to work in case I get so hinky I can't function properly. We shall see. I want to be free of this shit so badly.

 

[podsnomo]

Well MDB, if you're still following this thread, you might like to know I quit kratom finally. Today is day 2 without, and it could be worse. But ti does suck. Sucks a lot actually. People say kratom is easier to get off of. Not true IMO. The physical problems are not as bad but the psychological torture is significant. I'd say it's the same or worse than pods or any other opiate. And I can take the physical stuff any day over the anxiety, restlessness, insomnia, cravings, etc. If you wanna know more about this little journey hit me up.

As always,
pnm

 

[Opanaking]

That's good to hear podsnomo. Just take it one day at a time and soon enough you'll be feeling much better!

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Well done Podsnomo. Have you managed to stay off everything one month down the line ? My poppy pod taper is still progressing, albeit slowly. Ive switched from measuring by the tablespoonfull to measuring by the 0.00 g to get a more accurate idea of what im taking. Im down from 3 x 4.5 mega heaped tablespoonfulls a day and all the days reused grounds on top, to about 2 tablespoonfulls in the morning (about 18g), 9g at lunchtime, another 18g in the evening plus all the days reused grounds. Days can go by without feeling any w/ds then every now and then i get hit by mild wds, like today. When that happens i stabilise on the same dose for a few days until i feel ok again and then resume tapering. I know im taking a long time over the taper, but im in no rush.

Also for a while i greatly increase my use of etizolam to compensate for using less PT. Working on getting that under control too. Did a total of 8mg yesterday so thats a big improvement. Ive been having small MAM2201 spliffs as well. Gotta take a break from them too, otherwise there will be another addiction. Ive also been using 2 cimetidines before my evening dose, which i know is cheating, but i'm getting there, slowly but surely.

One question for Podsnomo (or anyone else who can answer) about when you cut down from 3 to 2 daily doses. I'm planning to cut out the lunchtime 9g tomorrow. I know you said to keep the overall daily dose the same, so would you just halve it, and add 4.5g to both the morning and evening doses, or add the whole 9g to the morning or evening dose ?

 

[ArtVandalay]

Big ups to you mydrugbuddy!! I never could get off pods by myself. I did successfully transition to kratom for about a month- though the constant redosing was difficult, and I felt like I was in minor wd from pods the whole time. I was a daily pod user for around 6 years. I got on suboxone, 8mg a day, and have been on for a year. It's worked wonders for me. I forsee being on maintenance for probably another year or two (I suffer from major anxiety and sub keeps me stable, much more than any ssri or benzo ever could).

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Yes it probably is a bad idea. When i do get 'clean' off of opiates, I am confident and determined that I will do it, no harm in taking my time about it, I plan to leave it at least one month. Then consider getting something as a weekend treat. I know its playing with fire, Every time ive been through WDs i say, never again, and i mean it for a while. But when the depression of PAWS hits, its a fuckin killer. This time around I have had my docs increase my dose of my SSRI; i believe that will help me through the PAWS, even if it is only placebo.

Forget the weekend treat. Just forget it.

Thanks for the suggestion of using 'standard medical procedure'....But Im not gonna be switching to bupe or methadone, ive heard that one of them at least (cant remember which one, or maybe its both of them) are absolute bastards to get off, due to hellish long long drawn out WDs. So im probably sticking to pods for my taper. I do have the option of switching to AH7921 to complete my taper, which for me at least, seems to be a non-euphoric opiate, and its a lot more convenient and accurate to dose than poppy pod tea...

the longer the withdrawal duration (generally) the less painful the withdrawal

you're trading tit for tat

that rc you're talking about wouldn't be used under medical supervision so I would discourage it

I know I may sound like an institutional lackey but there are experienced people on hand

why not use them?