Harm Reduction Tapering Plan Mega thread - community project

[Cloud_9]

Yah I know what you guys mean I am coming off sub also here within a few days but my buddy is nice enough to hook me up with some benzo's and muscle relaxers to get me through the worst of it. Thank God for friends lol!

The last time I was sweating through withdrawal I had a couple really old cyclobenzaprine [Flexeril] tablets that were an absolute jackpot find. While it didn't kill the mind-warping anxiety along with detox, it did manange to let me sleep through a good portion compared to having nothing but supplements.

I would just open up to your doctor about what you are doing to yourself, because more than likely he is going to find out one way or the other, as was the case with me comming into the ER and being in a drug induced coma for a week. Now the I am straight with him he actually writes for my methadone every 2 weeks and will accomodate most any requests as long as they have a valid foundation. Getting prescribed 2 CII medications while being marked as "DRUG SEEKING" is not imposible; I take 45mg a day of dextroamphetamine as well as 90mg-120mg of methadone as well as 600mg-900mg of Lyrica. The worst case is he kicks you out of the office with nothing in hand. If that happens just sign up to see a new doctor who can be a little more humane. (assuming you have insurance :ragefist: :amerikkka!)

 

[x_fizzler]

Opiate detox'ing drugs need help

just went on my last nod tonight tommrow is the day i will stop taking rue opoids.

So the pills ive put togather is

1 1/2 xanax (.5mgs)
10 ativan
3 Carvedilol (corereg) 3.125mgs
1 topomax
1 soma
13 ultrams
goning to buy some immodium and ibprofen/excedrin right now.

Ok first of all ive used clonodine to detox before makes things a bit more comfy, All i could find were the Carvedilol pills which are beta blocker, will these fist of all give me the same effect as clonodine which is a hypertensive or something? This is really important if beta blockers will makes things worse i want to stay away from them.

Second of all i have tried seroquil it seems to make things a lil moe comfy too is this topomax about the same thing?

Pretty much know what all the other pills do just wanna make sure thee isnt gonna be any nasty interactions from mixing any of them?

If anyone can answer these questions it would be highly appreciated.

 

[Cloud_9]

This is even on the first page. The least you could do is run the search engine next time.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=482413

But yeah, everything is good as long as you don't become overly dependent on the benzodiazepines, and not to take them to haphazardly or else you will run out when you really need them.

Edit: Just saw you are playing around with beta-blockers. Be extremely super-fucking careful with those (my mother who is a nurse recently told me there is no real way to reverse/prevent an overdose of beta blockers). If they are the time-released version, don't fuck with the preparation and take them as recomended but I wouldn't even bother with them, but hey... junkies are desperate people who do desperate things. You should probably ask your primary care doctor for a clonodine patch if he knows about your dependency, but if you want to keep it a secret, you might be able to get away with going to a free clinic if there is one nearby that could set you up for an outpatient tapper. Could I ask what you are detoxing from, at what doses, and for how long you have been using them?

 

[x_fizzler]

Im detoxing from morphing/hydro. 6month binge.
ive had to detox from fent and oxy before this isnt my first trip down this road ive used lots of medicines in the past i know most of my list is cool. Really the only reason im asking is becuase i have done research on these corereg pills and can find anything about them being used for detox like clonodine. So id wondered if someone more knowlegable than me could tell me wether these things will do the same as clonodine. My plan was to take 1 3.125mg pill a day when the trams are gone for 3 days.

Also i dunno much about topamax is it like sroquiel will it zombify me through my detox? Could i take one at work to take the edge off wd's?

Oh i also added a potassium sup to the list, neone know about how much of that you be taking for the cramps dont wanna over do it

 

[Cloud_9]

Im detoxing from morphing/hydro. 6month binge.
ive had to detox from fent and oxy before this isnt my first trip down this road ive used lots of medicines in the past i know most of my list is cool. Really the only reason im asking is becuase i have done research on these corereg pills and can find anything about them being used for detox like clonodine. So id wondered if someone more knowlegable than me could tell me wether these things will do the same as clonodine. My plan was to take 1 3.125mg pill a day when the trams are gone for 3 days.

Also i dunno much about topamax is it like sroquiel will it zombify me through my detox? Could i take one at work to take the edge off wd's?

Oh i also added a potassium sup to the list, neone know about how much of that you be taking for the cramps dont wanna over do it

About the beta-blockers, like I said, while it certainly isn't a normal practice to use blood pressure medication other than clonodine to help ease the physical symptoms of withdrawal, it wouldn't be the first time someone has connected the dots between clonodine and that any other beta-blocker should work just as well. I just want to remind you that you should use the smallest effective dose, and perhaps even call a poison control line, or even the local pharmacist. They are pretty good about gauging how much is lethal, and how much is a therapeutic dose. While the beta-blocker might help somewhat, I doubt it is going to give you that relief you seek/got from clonodine last time you went through withdrawal.

As far as topamax, you shouldn't be confused or slow-witted on topamax. If you are, something could definitely be wrong, but in all likelihood the biggest side-effect is probably going to just be a headache and maybe some residual dizziness. I don't know what you are attempting to avert with this medication though, as I really have never seen it on the survival guides for detoxing like I posted above. I have been on both and serequel definately has a much heavier zombie-effect like you describe where tompamax has never given me anything similar, so you may be shit out of luck on that one if you are looking for something to knock you the fuck out. Your best bet is in those precious few benzodiazepines. You should look up some ways to get the most out of those, but as always, don't go overboard and kill a 1/5th of vodka with a hand-full of ativan. That is how I wound up in a drug-induced coma!

You might be better off swapping the potassium for some magnesium, or if you have enough cash; using both would be ideal. Taking magnesium in liberal doses should help ease your aching muscles and help kill that annoying persistently kicking feeling more than anything you have described having other than the benzodiazepines, but even those run into a wall where they become much less effective over the course of a couple days.

 

[x_fizzler]

well to tell you the truth ive tapered down quite a bit, today i took 6 trams 30mgs of m and 15mgs of hydro. The m acually made me nod with a xan. A few weeks ago i was taking 100mgs of m and 100mgs of hydro. The taper has been like a constant flu but now i feel floaty at this level so im thinking im ready to quit the real narcs just using ultram to get me through work and what not.

The idea was thursday and friday i have off so maybe the beta blockers would stop the the chills and provide some relief. The topomax may just make me grogy i was hoping or more comftorable in my skin at least. The benzos are for sleep and panic attacks. I also figured maybe the soma would knock me out help RLS.

I cant stand rls chills and diahrea. this is the first time ive tried immodium will see if it just stops my shits or if it will be the magical wd cure some people say it is... dont plan on taking more than 6 to 10mg of the stuff at a time depending on what it does for me...

Ill check into some magniesium is the stuff in a one a day gonna be enough? Becuase i hate RLS i hate it so much i just want to throw temper tantrums erghhh.

When i got off oxys and fent after a 4 year stent of opiate use i rembber tappering all the pills the when that was done halfing the patch then removing it and being in a sickly clonodine tired haze falling asleep in outpatient rehab. Wasnt fun but a hell of alot better than cold turkey. Just hoping the beta blockers help as much the pills i have are the lowest perscribed dose im not scared ima od or anything only plan on doing one to 2 a day like the bottle says.

What exactly are the effects of topomax how does it make you feel as a drug?

 

[Cloud_9]

well to tell you the truth ive tapered down quite a bit, today i took 6 trams 30mgs of m and 15mgs of hydro. The m acually made me nod with a xan. A few weeks ago i was taking 100mgs of m and 100mgs of hydro. The taper has been like a constant flu but now i feel floaty at this level so im thinking im ready to quit the real narcs just using ultram to get me through work and what not.

The idea was thursday and friday i have off so maybe the beta blockers would stop the the chills and provide some relief. The topomax may just make me grogy i was hoping or more comftorable in my skin at least. The benzos are for sleep and panic attacks. I also figured maybe the soma would knock me out help RLS.

I cant stand rls chills and diahrea. this is the first time ive tried immodium will see if it just stops my shits or if it will be the magical wd cure some people say it is... dont plan on taking more than 6 to 10mg of the stuff at a time depending on what it does for me...

Ill check into some magniesium is the stuff in a one a day gonna be enough? Becuase i hate RLS i hate it so much i just want to throw temper tantrums erghhh.

When i got off oxys and fent after a 4 year stent of opiate use i rembber tappering all the pills the when that was done halfing the patch then removing it and being in a sickly clonodine tired haze falling asleep in outpatient rehab. Wasnt fun but a hell of alot better than cold turkey. Just hoping the beta blockers help as much the pills i have are the lowest perscribed dose im not scared ima od or anything only plan on doing one to 2 a day like the bottle says.

What exactly are the effects of topomax how does it make you feel as a drug?

Anything is better than cold-turkey! I have though about it for a long time, and I think that feeding somebody IV opioids, and intermittently administering IV drip nalaxone/naltrexone could possibly the most agonizing type of torture imaginable. All without leaving a single suspicious mark!

Back to the dirty business at hand though, yeah I get the general idea of what you are looking to get out of all the medications you have managed to scrounge around for, but I really don't think you are going to get half as much as you think you could get out of them that could help with your withdrawal unfortunately.

I remember the last time I went through a rapid as fuck taper when I was using 120mg of methadone and had to stop within the week. I managed to be in searing pain for about 15-20 days, but after the first 5-6 it really was more of a "DAMNIT KNOCK ME OUT WITH A HAMMER I AM SO SHITTY FEELING" compared to the unimaginable anxiety that comes with the w/d's. I wish you the best of luck, but you should probably look for a free clinic like I reccomended that isn't under your current medical carrier, or work something out. While tapering is a bitch, that final jump-off is best taken with a friend... a benzo friend!

What are your plans post-acute withdrawal? Is this more a once a month until the prescription is filled deal, or something more fundamental?

 

[x_fizzler]

idk about free clinics no idea, earlier in life i wanted methadone my doc gave me fent patches said i couldnt abbuse them and methadones a bad road... well i oded on those fent patches one night.... although do understand where he was coming from.

I dont think i want to quit for good 5 years straight i managed to do vics now and again never get hooked never using everyday or even every other day. Just had some problems 6 months ago and went binging, this has now caused me great finacial paral. My goal is to get this shit detoxed outa my system feel normal again get my life and finaces under control and go from there.

I dont know anything about free clinics as i said, i know i will definately have the urge to use.. i have thought about meth or subs, but right now my car is in the shop so i cant get a ride to ne of these docs and im broke with no insurance. Methadone scares me even though i know itll help the mental part too. IDK wtf to i know i wanna stop at least right now i cant do it nemore. And im so broke from the drugs i have to work through the whole detox process. Also i dont want ANYONE to know about most of this thats another reason idk about clinics.

basically cluless of how subs and meth work i know theres a free sub program if your lucky how about methadone? Do these clinics do maintence and 21 day tapers? and how do you get a free one? I live in bfe like i wouldnt wanna have to drive to la or something everyday to pick up one days worth of meds.

Excuse ne of that if it sounded ignorant just dont know much about free clinics for junkys . Ive always had insurance and detoxed and done rehab or sat in my bed for days. Sorda pissed ive had this bad of a relapse after 5 years of barley using anything

 

[x_fizzler]

I wrote a similar thread yeasterday and captain herion seemed to think i should see a sub doc, you say free clinic. I mean compartabily i have a minor habbit no needles these days not fents or oxy or ds, just a bunch of crappy oral hydro morph and ultrams. Seems like subs meth is overkill, is the free clinic idea to help me stay clean after detox?

 

[Cloud_9]

idk about free clinics no idea, earlier in life i wanted methadone my doc gave me fent patches said i couldnt abbuse them and methadones a bad road... well i oded on those fent patches one night.... although do understand where he was coming from.

I dont think i want to quit for good 5 years straight i managed to do vics now and again never get hooked never using everyday or even every other day. Just had some problems 6 months ago and went binging, this has now caused me great finacial paral. My goal is to get this shit detoxed outa my system feel normal again get my life and finaces under control and go from there.

I dont know anything about free clinics as i said, i know i will definately have the urge to use.. i have thought about meth or subs, but right now my car is in the shop so i cant get a ride to ne of these docs and im broke with no insurance. Methadone scares me even though i know itll help the mental part too. IDK wtf to i know i wanna stop at least right now i cant do it nemore. And im so broke from the drugs i have to work through the whole detox process. Also i dont want ANYONE to know about most of this thats another reason idk about clinics.

basically cluless of how subs and meth work i know theres a free sub program if your lucky how about methadone? Do these clinics do maintence and 21 day tapers? and how do you get a free one? I live in bfe like i wouldnt wanna have to drive to la or something everyday to pick up one days worth of meds.

Excuse ne of that if it sounded ignorant just dont know much about free clinics for junkys . Ive always had insurance and detoxed and done rehab or sat in my bed for days. Sorda pissed ive had this bad of a relapse after 5 years of barley using anything

Hearing that perhaps you can manage to swing your primary care doctor to prescribe you suboxone (buprenorphine) for "chronic pain" issues. That is pretty much the only guise you are going to be able to get that drug under, much like methadone being prescribed for "chronic pain." The great part about suboxone is that even if you slip up and start IVing, the medications are meant to be abused, and there are even some mega-thread about how you should prepare you IV solutions of suboxone.

If you are interested, or have any other ideas about how you could taper down and jump ship for a while throw them out there. Like you I've been down just about every legitimate and illicit road there is in terms of opiod addiction and the god-awful dependence.

I wrote a similar thread yeasterday and captain herion seemed to think i should see a sub doc, you say free clinic. I mean compartabily i have a minor habbit no needles these days not fents or oxy or ds, just a bunch of crappy oral hydro morph and ultrams. Seems like subs meth is overkill, is the free clinic idea to help me stay clean after detox?

Well, I really can't reccomend a path that depending on the country you live in, end up being possibly even more expensive, and possibly more trouble dealing with your insurance and getting and making appoitments compared to just jumping off with a couple valium or xanax. For some reason I am remembering you doing a couple of hydrocodone a day, if thats wrong be sure to correct me, but usually a habit under 60-90mg of hydrocodone/oxycodone has been one of those withdrawal episodes where you may not feel comfortable in your skin for a couple days, but you definately can bear it compared to the same drop from when I was doing 360-400mg+ of Oxycontin a day for almost a year straight. That was torture, but luckily I had my doctor write for some zyprexa which is an atypical anti-psychotic which has seeminly been the best thing to simply knock me out and keep me out for 3-4 days until I start to feel whole again.

 

[threesfoursfives]

Withdrawal - Yep, after reading BL for days, i STILL have questions.

I have gone through so many search results I think I might have too much information.
After a 2yr, each on 1.5 bund a day habit, my girl and I are detoxing this weekend. Saved enough to get away to the beach for a week, so can do it warm, instead of freezing it up on the east coast. I’ve failed twice, so third is the charm.

I have some questions, so if someone with knowledge and/or withdrawal experience can chip in then I’d be really grateful.
I will be taking some loperimide, maybe 12mg a few hours after we finish the dope, and then ride it out as far as we can.

I have some xanax, and some rohypnols for the night time.

Questions
I have a handful of subs (bupe) and was thinking about taking a small amount if the symptoms get really bad. Has anyone used just a little bit of sub to help with the first few days, and how much? I want it over with as quick as possible – it’s the reason I won’t get on subs fully.

We are going to taper a little, though it’s really hard. Cutting down even 30% I think will help. Problem is, I get really really bad anxiety. Any suggestions on how to help leading up to quitting?

I also have a few percs and a few more vics. Wondering if I should take em away with me, and nibble a few mgs in the first few days, or do I run the risk of prolonging it all as well?

Lastly, the symptom I hate the most is not really spoken about too much – I get really bad nightmares. Well, they are not full nightmares, because they come in the state where I am not sleeping, but not fully conscious Which is most of the time in withdrawal. Images and shit – my head goes totally loopy! Anyone had the same, and done anything to alleviate?

People talk about exercise and even going to work while in wds. To me that is unthinkable. It starts with total fatigue, and then I am doing donuts in bed, shivering and generally going out of my mind.

Anyway, any thoughts or help on any of the above... please.

Yours in debt,
TFF

 

[FENTabUSER]

wow man first off congrats on trying to kick the dope thats a huge first step......every single person is different when it comes to WD's if I were in your shoes I would use the Bupe it will help you so much you will be glad you have it....I cant give you a taper schedule because ive never used it to taper but there are alot of smart experienced people here that will be able to help....

Good luck man to you and your lady friend keep your head up and spirits high it will be over soon enough, be sure to let us all know how youre doing and if we can do anything to help

 

[safety]

Well just in my opinion the hard part will be once you get back to the city, not while you're at the beach. You will probably want to use and you will have to fight that urge. You should save your supplies for as long as you can, stretch them out for as long as you can. It sounds like you have lots of drugs to help you kick.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

With the drugs you have, you really should be able to mitigate a substantial portion of the withdrawals but I really don't think that will be the worst part.

A lot of people talk about PAWS and other factors after the initial physical withdrawals or just coping with life sober being far more difficult than 3-5 days of being sick as shit.

Essentially, if you just go back from the beach to the same life and all the same situations, all the things that lead you to use in the past are still there. Do you have any plans for when you return on how to maintain your sobriety, address the PAWS and reasons why you did use and everything?

Detox is a bitch but pales in comparison to maintaining that sobriety long term and if that is your goal, I think a handful of bupe, benzos, etc. will be insufficient.

I hope this hasn't come off as lecturing because that really isn't my intent, I just really don't want you to go through all the pain of detox and then without a plan, quickly go back to the dope.

I have some experience with the issues I've mentioned above so if you ever want to PM/IM/Email me about these things, please feel free to do so and I'll help in any way that I can.

take care

 

[artaxerxes]

stupid exercise bitch back up in the house

Here comes that stupid exercise bitch up in another thread…

First off, excellent job on trying to quit through a geographical. I have high hopes for your success. It's worked for a few of my best friends, so give it your best effort

Now, here's me back on the "jesusF! Shut it with the fucking exercise thing. It's fucking impossible!" No matter how much you want to lay on your bed until the day the sun rises and you feel ready to take on at least a little bit of the world, you're not going to accelerate the detox process without exercise, preferably exhausting exercise, preferably cardio.

Use your intenet time to find info on the best vitamin/supplements/good foods to regain your pre-junkdays energy. The right combo of foods/supplements/and intense exercise will pull you out of PAWS that quickest.)

I don't want to give short shrift to yoga and yogic practices. I found that making yoga class at least once a day after my last kick had me feeling like me again. I;d forgotten many things that I had counted unimportant losses, that I was quiet happy to have back.

Al I want to say is that exercise is your friend in PAWS and beyond. It pushes out so many associated negative habits (drinking, smoking) and it actually gives you an awesome body high that lasts at least a couple of hours.

Wishing you the best on getting free!

ps. Intense cardio (if you're still in a warm place near the ocean, go swim in those damn waves) will minimize a lot of those evil dreams.

I've been having a lot of particularly bad ones lately (waking up screaming, et al. BP: 110/196. Bleh.) and I'm pretty good at dream analysis. For that matter, I've always had lucid, memorable dreams, but my mind wont let me sleep no matter how drugged.)

Anyway, harsh bodily exercise will kick those dreams in the ass, not just because you're exhausting yourself, but because the dreams are the brains' way of telling you what you already know: you're doing something that's hurting you /holding you back. Start doing stuff that's for positive for you and you dreams will change almost immediately. You may even get a peaceful passive dream that shows you you're on the right track.

Good luck again. I wish I had y'all's balls. I keep putting it off and the nightmares are getting much worse.

 

[BIGsherm7272]

has anyone ever had an auditory hallucination while withdrawing? During my last withdrawal, not only did I have very weird dreams, but after I woke up from one, I remember that I closed my eyes and tried to go back to sleep, and as I felt myself going back to sleep, I could have sworn I heard my dad asking me some question, but it got high pitched as it went on, yet I was about to respond but then I opened my eyes and he was not there, and I thought to myself how ridiculous what he was talking about sounded and why I even thought it was real......kinda freaked me out, never happened during withdrawal before...

 

[Cane2theLeft]

has anyone ever had an auditory hallucination while withdrawing? During my last withdrawal, not only did I have very weird dreams, but after I woke up from one, I remember that I closed my eyes and tried to go back to sleep, and as I felt myself going back to sleep, I could have sworn I heard my dad asking me some question, but it got high pitched as it went on, yet I was about to respond but then I opened my eyes and he was not there, and I thought to myself how ridiculous what he was talking about sounded and why I even thought it was real......kinda freaked me out, never happened during withdrawal before...

I don't think that would be an auditory hallucination but just a pretty typical effect of the hypnogogic/hypnopompic state...

Snatches of imagined speech are common. While typically nonsensical and fragmented, these speech events can occasionally strike the individual as apt comments on – or summations of – their thoughts at the time. They often contain word play, neologisms and made-up names. Hypnagogic speech may manifest as the subject’s own ‘inner voice’, or as the voices of others: familiar people or strangers.LINK

 

[threesfoursfives]

PAWS.
1/4 of all the external resources for addicts are for the kick part (bupe docs, detox centres, short term stay rehab) but 3/4 are there for post wd - NA and support groups mainly.

I have some things going for me to help stop relapse. Who knows whether they'll count for shit...
But - and thanks for your post artaxerxes - one thing is for sure, the gym is the key. I used to be able to crank out more than 60 minutes of cardio at a steady 148 bpm, only 2.5 years ago, so i know what it feels like to be fit and high from it. I'm prepping menatally for the long road back. (exercise while in the first 5 days, we'll see - history says HA and it says it loudly)

junkies with plans again.

Anyway, I still dont know what to do with the bupe/RXs I have.

I guess the simple question is - If i take a very small amount of bupe for the first 3 days, will they be much easier, and will the wd's still be over in the same amount of time?

thanks to everyone, so far and in the future.
TFF

 

[Jabberwocky]

merging into Tapering thread

 

[i are spectre]

diazepam taper and solubility issues

I am taking 50mg of diazepam daily right now, I just got off alprazolam. I know the schedule and how to taper SLOWLY over months, but my main concern is that I have the 10mg tabs. What would be the best way to get down to 1mg or .5mg or even less with these tabs. I know they are lipid soluble, I heard alcohol, too. What would be the best way to get these 10mg tabs into near accurate doses of .25 or .5mg. Benzos blow and I want to get off this shit. I dont want to get 2mg tabs but I may have to do that. Any help would be appreciated. Dissolving in alcohol doesnt seem like a good idea though because I dont want to drink vodka with my diazepam. Can I use sunflower/canola oil and measure it out in mL? Id rather drink oil than vodka. Thanks for anyone that can help me out...