Tapering Off - Opiate Withdrawl Avoidance

[KKKholed]

buprenorphine aka bupa info
dosage i would recommend 2mg to 4mg sublingal can hold most people atleast 36hr to 48 hrs
Herion will have no effect what so ever whilst on bupa so forget about using, its just a waste of gear.
here in oz, bupa is use as a withdrawl program in two ways
starting at around 12mg for 2 days reducing in two to four mg increments, over 7 to 10 days
pretty well the same as above but over 3 months
or you can stay on it for ever
important allow mild withdrawl to occur [aleast 8 hours] before starting bupa otherwise sudden full
blown withdrawal can occur[wierd but true]

 

[Option2]

You sure it's MG's???
Temgesic tabs and ampules come in .20mg doses, not 2mg.
Temgesic works very well, btw. To get off Torbugesic, I did 15days on Temgesic (5days on .20mg/day, 10 days on .10mg/day), then switched to Ultram at 100mg/day for about 25days, then 50mg/day for another 15days. Been clean since...no cravings at all.
Temgesic attaches to (I believe) the Mu and Kappa receptors for a long time, nearly 24hrs.
If you're gonna try any opiate replacement, use Temgesic. Sublingual's, not the injectable. Stay as far away from needles as you can. The whole process of cooking, drawing up, entering a vein, and shooting is just as addictive as the drug itself. The needle's your best friend and worst enemy.

 

[KKKholed]

yes i'm positive its mgs
Buprenorphine (‘bup’, ‘B’) is available (under the name of Subutex)
A Subutex tablet is placed under the tongue and allowed to dissolve. Chewing or swallowing the tablet will make it ineffective. Injecting Subutex is dangerous and may lead to severe vein damage, blood clots and other health complications.
Subutex dissolves within 2­8 minutes after placing it under the tongue. The effects begin within 5 minutes of taking the dose and peak within 2­4 hours, lasting between 4 hours to 3 days, depending on the dosage.
The dosage of buprenorphine often varies for each person. As a guide, doses range from 4mg to 32mg per day for heroin dependence.
Using buprenorphine with other drugs.
It is particularly important to avoid using other depressant drugs, such as benzodiazepines (‘benzos’), e.g. Valium, with buprenorphine. Using benzodiazepines with buprenorphine may lead to breathing difficulties, coma or death.
info taken from fact sheet that comes with bupa edited what i thought was relevant to the original poster

 

[EvilSpaceMonk]

Just wanted to thank everyone for the great, informative responses responses. No need to mention names, you know who you are.
A friend is taking a trip to Mexico in a few days and will hopefully be getting me:
-1 box of Klonopin
-1 bottle of Soma
-Some Clonodine for blood pressure and sweats (do you guys think this is necessary knowing the extent of my habit and subsequent kick?)
-Maybe some secanol for sleep, but I already have some Trazodone incase.
Just to err on the side of caution I've decided to procure an OC40 in the event things get too rough.
Thanks...
m0nksta

 

[KKKholed]

So my question is when you use the bupernorphine in a home-detox-setting, doesnt it bring a rapid influx of the withdrawl symptoms?
Apparently it can, if buprenorphine is used before mild withdrawl occurrs it can bring on rapid withdrawl symptoms.
i didn't experience this,[last wack 7am started bupa at 2pm that day] but found buprenorphine alot harder to come off in comparison to methadone [Felt like limbs wanted to fling themselves into the strataphere, you will become addicted within 14 days of use.]

 

[[u.k neuronauticals inc]]

This is great,i havent been to this site for time,and the excact same discussion is going on!
KKKholed,i was surprised to read your info on bupe.
Im gonna be put on subotex in 3 or so months,and was told it will be easier to get off than the methadone im currently on.
Ill need to look into this shit a bit more before i decide.
The original poster should listen to blahblahblah.
Pills,pills,pills - yes indeedy.

 

[Option2]

I used temgesic for 15days while getting off Torbugesic...works f'n perfect. No withdrawl, no high, nothing. It just sits in the Opiate receptor so you don't crave opiates. I've never EVER seen or heard of 2MG tabs, that is a HUGE dose.
If you're friend is looking for Bup in mexico, he's gonna get Temgesic. Comes in a box of 10 sublingual tabs @ .2mg...costs $30-$35 per box. You can also get amp's of .20mg/amp...a box of 6 amps will cost you $35. But you want to stay away shooting anything.
The Kolonopin will run you either $70 for 100 tabs, or $7 for 10 tabs, depending on whether or not you can get a pharm to sell you an individual blister pack.

 

[KKKholed]

option 2 after doing some research on temgesic
i agree that .2mg dose would be suffice
i wish i knew about temgesic .2mg when i was reducing from Subutex, breaking 2mg tablets in small pieces isn't a ideal situation
an interesting article on bup i found while researching
temgesic
web page

 

[EvilSpaceMonk]

So should I got ahead and pick up both some Bupes and some K-pins? I guess that will be enough to get me through this. I'm going to b getting them this weekend.
Can anyone offer me info regarding dosing? What mg of Bupe should I take over what period of time? I can figure out the K-pins. I guess I can just use trial and error for both.
Thanks...

 

[Option2]

If you're kicking H, I'd advise picking up a couple boxes of Temgesic (depending on how much H you're doing, maybe get 3 boxes) and K-pins. If you get the whole box of k-pins and 20tabs of Tem, you're looking at about $140.
If you're going to TJ, you're buddy will be lookin at a 4-5hr wait at the border on the weekend. The best time to go is weekdays, at around 6pm. Make sure your buddy doesn't have any warrents or arrests either, or else he'll get pulled aside and searched. Sorry, can't help with any smuggling tips...customs/dea doesn't need to be reading them off the boards, ya know.
For the Tem, I did...
days 1-5 .20mg/day
days 6-15 .10mg/day
Then I switched to Ultram for about a month.
I dunno if I'd posted this already...

 

[SovietContin]

After re-reading this entire thread and re-evaluating myself, I've decided that you never quit heroin.
Before I started shooting about a year ago, I hadn't used heroin for 2 years. I never acknowledged myself as being hooked when I had used it before. But in reality, I had been using painkillers for years prior, even if not on a daily basis. And after I quit using heroin the first time, I resumed using painkillers. Sometimes I would go for months without. Sometimes it would become a daily thing.
At any rate, I ended up on heroin getting seriously hooked. I've quit several times, once for almost a month!
And maybe I will quit for a few years one day, but it seems like the reality is that I'll be back on painkillers or heroin again at some point.
Perhaps the lesson to be learned here is that if you got hooked on heroin, you really fucked up and that you should just accept the fact that you're a junkie now and nothing will change that.

 

[Option2]

whoa whoa whoa, this guy says he can go 24-36hrs w/o having withdrawl...this shit should be a fucking cakewalk. I would get sick to my stomach, have bad fucking anxiety attacks every 15minutes...everything. Hell, I'd even shoot water just hoping there'd be some residue left inside the vial. No fucking way I could go more than an hour w/o a shot...and this guy goes 24!!!
Just giving up and saying "yea, I'll be a junkie for life" is easy as fuck when you just fixxed 30minutes ago.

 

[[u.k neuronauticals inc]]

SC is right.Once youve accustomed yourself to opiate addiction it remains with you the rest of you life.
In the periods youre not using,youre addiction is basically just in a dormant phase.
The pessimist would define this as purely delaying the inevitable.

 

[KKKholed]

evilspacemonk imo
dosage depends on what you what to do
if you want to continue to use hammer say aleast weekly.
i recommend 2 to 4mg [1 dose only thats it ]which will tie you over 2 to 3 days at least, not one withdrawal symptom,
if you want to stop using all together i full agree with option 2 regime if living in the us
in regard to uk and sc comments this is the thing imo that is the main avantage of bup because if your truely ready to give up, bup for lots of people fixes the mind fuck of hammer.it gives you that chance to really break the cycle.

 

[FreakK]

well, when it comes to OPIATE addiction, i lump them all together with one another, Heroin, OXY etc etc...
i disagree with SOVIET that once one is hooked he will be hooked FOREVER...the relapse rate is very high and the odds ARE stacked against you BUT it is possible tpo quit Opiates and stay off them....last i heard the relapse rate was something like 90%?????
yep, once one has falllen into the depth of OpIATE heaven one will never forget the BLISS that the drug provides...
the withdrawals are one thing, but the 2-4 weeks following(if not months) of NO ENERGY, DEPRESSION, just basically DREADING waking up every morning is what gets people back to using Opiates...those withdrawals are a bitch but those weeks following are just as bad IMO.....

 

[EvilSpaceMonk]

So here I am, around 2 months and a week of daily heroin use and I still have yet to kick. Right now the physical symptoms remain dormant until about the 22-24 hour mark. I'm ready to quit, but it seems I keep having a new reason not to. Haven't made it to Mexico to get the Buprenorphine or the Benzos, which is why I haven't made a serious go of it yet. Once I take care of that, I'm really going to give it a shot before I am too far gone with the dependency.
Whether or not I will stay clean isn't a concearn of mine right now. I just want to detox so I'm not living on smack's time table. I want to live my life without HAVING to drop what I'm doing and go cop just to be sure I don't get sick. This is really my main motivation in abstaining. I just want to kick the physical addiction and press the reset button on my habit.
Right now I don't want to quite for good, so even contemplating that would be futile. However, once I am ready, and I will be someday, I will manage to quite. It really is a matter of mental determination. I don't agree with the idea that once you are in the midst of a hardcore habit or addiction, it can't be broken. People quite all the time, sometimes for good, sometimes not. But some people do manage to quite forever and never look back.
There is hope for us...
Thanks for the responses, they will be very valuable as soon as I get around to going through this dreaded experience.
Good day...
[ 17 June 2002: Message edited by: EvilSpaceMonk ]

 

[Dr.groveller]

Originally posted by EvilSpaceMonk:
So here I am, around 2 months and a week of daily heroin use and I still have yet to kick. Right now the physical symptoms remain dormant until about the 22-24 hour mark.
[ 17 June 2002: Message edited by: EvilSpaceMonk ]
I'd say fuck it and go cold turkey. If you're not getting symptoms for 24 hours- you're still not in too deep... It'll be probably 2 days max. Just get some good otc pain and sleep meds- tylenol pm will probably be enough. It'll suck, but won't be near as bad if you end up deeper. Do it now. I'd say the bupe/benzo rout is overkill for your current habit.
doc

 

[EvilSpaceMonk]

Well Dr.G, quitting cold turkey really isn't an option. I know I don't have the will power to go through a cold turkey kick right now. I will probably end up going to cop more dope. With the use of benzos and bup at least I will eliminate the mental cravings somewhat as well as the physical pain, just enough to NOT go and get more dope. I find in the midst of being dope sick, whatever decisions I made about getting clean quickly go out the window. This is why I need something to take some of the edge off to make it managable.
I'm sure you're right. It won't be THAT bad, but still bad enough that I've avoided it this long. At the very least I'm going to need some benzos because diphenhydramine (the shit in Tylenol PMs) is completely ineffective on me. I won't be able to sleep unless I can get some benzos.
thx...

 

[Technical User]

EvilSpaceMonk - You are saying you want to reset your clock or whatever and you do not want to quit forever. If you are going to kick like this the only way you are going to do it is if your looking forward to your next shot, Thinking that once you have stopped for awhile then you can treat yourself to another high.
My look on this whole thing is - if you want to quit then seriously quit and don't look back. But if you just want to slow down then ween yourself down to a managable level(couple bags a day) - where if need be then you can substitute a couple oxys or something and not worry about getting phisicaly sick
See my problem started a long time ago also with low dose pain pills worked its way through fentynl and higher doses of painkillers and now is with heroin, which I can go a day without it now, but thats with around 80-100mgs of oxy... Which I am slowly bringing down.
two months ago, I was up to around 8-10 bags of dope a day, and right now I am at about 2-3 on a normal workday. I just slowly weened myself and I don't fell too bad. (although I am still high)
The way I did it was quite simple, Instead of shooting a hole bag every time I would do about 3/4 of one and so forth and put the rest aside, practically fooling my body.Actually I think I started with a lower # probably about 5/6 of the bag! And every few days(like 4 or five) I would just cut my dose down a little at a time and believe it or not I'm doing at least 6 bags a day less then I was just one month ago. It will take along time to do this ecspecially if you have a pretty decent habit, but if you have no real reason to quit, other then not wanting to be sick...Then you have all the time in the world.
----GOOD LUCK on whatever you choose to do----

 

[choad]

i have a few withdrawl questions. i am pretty sure they are all in my head, but incase anyone else has had a similar experience i'd like to know. the last two weeks have been pretty boring and depressing but i happened to come into some money so i've been using once a day, maybe taking a day or two off, i really don't remember. this went on for about two weeks. i never had to up my dosage though. my last shot was sunday. monday night, i was walking out in the cold and i felt a bit sick. chills, a little congested, but barely noticable. than again, one of my friends has a cold so i think maybe i just caught it from him. that night i had a lot of trouble sleeping, and when i did it wasn't very restful. but then again, i had slept in way too late that day to begin with. am i just freaking out and assuming a possible very mild cold is withdrawl, or am i just having a weak one?
also i would like to ask blahblahblah (i remember you starting a thread about this) or anyone who has cooked up old cottens. how many do you need for a good shit?and what do you do exactly? wet them and squeeze them again and just filter what you get? how likely are you to get cotton fever? would filtering twice or using a special microfilter help? thanks!
[ 19 June 2002: Message edited by: choad ]