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tackling the big issues.... should you be allowed to smack your kid???

Witch Doctor said:
on a slight side track, anyone ever get their mouth washed out with soap for sayin dirty words? i remember me, my brothers, and cousins all getting this one quiet regularly once we discovered swearing hah. taught we one good lesson, always check whois talking before u open ur mouth hah :)
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haahahahaha I remember this VERY well, my mom would take our toothbrush and rub it hard against the soap bar, and say OPEN...and we'd open our mouths (sometimes she'd have to hold them open=D ) and she'd brush the hell out of our teeth and tongue with the soap

then leave us there crying and tell us to clean up the mess.

You'd be surprised how hard it is to get the taste of Ivory soap out of your mouth, and out of your toothbrush....but it did teach us to look around the corner before we started swearing.
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I have a good story about kids getting beat at school. One time when my dad was a boy he got in a fight, and the principal took him into the office and beat him with the paddle (Ol Sparky was his name...he was a flat piece of hickory wood with holes drilled in him)

well, when he beat him with the paddle he called my Grandpa and told him, and my grandpa got MAAAAD. He came to the school in his work clothes (he was a butcher...so of course he was covered in blood....and he wasn't small by any means 6'3 250 lbs of muscle basically....since that work was extremely hard to do back then)

so he came to the school with his white apron covered in blood and told the principal to never hit his son again, that was his job. And he took off his belt and tore my dad up in the office.

after that my dad never caused anymore trouble.;)
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and MistressNerf, I feel bad for you, we were never hit on the hand with the wooden spoon...maybe you had a smaller wooden spoon than we did. We had the one that people usually put up on the wall as decoration. (for the kids to see so they'll be quiet...even guests knew the purpose of the wooden spoon=D )

I just think getting hit on the hand with the wooden spoon could lead to a broken hand. We were hit with one of those thick black markers across the knuckles...thats about as far as the hits on the hand went. And that was only at school. And one time at home when I stole a piece of bubble gum from the grocery store. :o
 
The answer is no.

There has been heaps of research into this field and the answer was that negative conditioning never ever works with humans. Hitting a child in order for them to make a conection with what they are doing wrong does nothing but make them more angry and they do not. I repeat DO NOT. make the connection of physical pain and understanding that what they were doing at the time was wrong. To people who say : " oh i was bashed/ hit as a child and im ok , i aint no angry motherfucker : That isnt the question. The question should be : did it do any good ? No. The most effective way to teach a child how to act properly is through positve reinforcement and explaining to them why their actions were wrong. Now seeing as most of society is stupid and lazy most parents cant be bothered treating their children like humans, so they hit them. Were this bullshit started about hitting your kids teaches them things I just dont understand.

My $56.
 
dbighead2 said:
I just can't understand how you people expect kids to raise theirselves....if my mom told me to please sit down or I'd get "time out" I'd laugh in her face.
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Nobody here has said they expect kids to raise themselves. It's just not that foreign a concept to some of us that there's more than ONE way to successfully raise a child. And some of us find the idea of "beating the shit" of your child to be really fucking offensive.

I agree with you on one point, kids who think the world owes them something shit me as well. But that's got nothing to do with whether you hit them or not.

And as far as this line goes..
you get your ass beat you usually either become wilder, or humble.
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I'm not interested in humbling my children, I'm interested in teaching them to respect themselves and the people around them. Hitting them doesn't teach them why what they've done is wrong, it teaches them that their parents don't like it. And so next time they'll do it they'll try to hide it better. Talking to them and explaining it to them (just like they were people, isn't that a crazy idea?) at least lets them know the reasons behind why you're punishing them, and if you've backed that up with teaching them accountability, there's a larger chance they'll not do it again at all.

In my opinion.
 
Originally posted by BREAKaBEAT
The answer is no.

There has been heaps of research into this field and the answer was that negative conditioning never ever works with humans. Hitting a child in order for them to make a conection with what they are doing wrong does nothing but make them more angry and they do not. I repeat DO NOT. make the connection of physical pain and understanding that what they were doing at the time was wrong. To people who say : " oh i was bashed/ hit as a child and im ok , i aint no angry motherfucker : That isnt the question. The question should be : did it do any good ? No. The most effective way to teach a child how to act properly is through positve reinforcement and explaining to them why their actions were wrong. Now seeing as most of society is stupid and lazy most parents cant be bothered treating their children like humans, so they hit them. Were this bullshit started about hitting your kids teaches them things I just dont understand.

My $56.


But I believe there is a difference between a hit and a smack. When I was smacked as a child, as I said before, it stung a little but never hurt for more than a couple of minutes. It definitely worked though. When I knew I was going to be smacked I'd run for my life. It's not as if that was the only punishment I was given. WHY what I did was wrong was also explained but if I repeatedly disobeyed I would be smacked. It was never done in anger.

I've seen people try this 'positive reinforcement'. My aunty and uncle, [lovely people] don't believe in smacking and used to sit their four/five/six/seven year old down and explain to him exactly why what he did was wrong. I just don't think some kids [and note I said some] have the maturity and mental capability to truly understand what their parents are trying to explain. My cousin is now 12 and has set a headland on fire, broken into cars and been caught stealing people's wallets. His parents were never tough on him and he's learnt that he can get away with anything.

Now I also think smacking only works on younger children. As a child gets older, say above seven, they'll get angry and simply feel humiliated if they get smacked. By that age however, children will be more receptive to other forms of punishment and will probably better understand when their parents sit them down and explain why they're in trouble. In fact, treating older kids more like adults will probably help give them a sense of responsiblity.
 
I've also talked about this in SO and briefly i don't agree with smacking your kids either. I was beaten on a few occasionas as a child with the kettle cord (not often but a few) and smacked quite a lot and i just felt ridiculed and beneath them and there is no way i want my child to feel that way about me.

The only reason to smack your chld is if they are very little and are about to do something to hurt themselves (like touch a hot oven) and you can't communicate with them and reason with them and explain the situation. Once you can communicate together then there is no reason for it.

Hitting a child when they do something wrong is only teaching them that they can solve their problems with their fists or can get angry and hurt someone if they do something they don't like (in the case of kids getting kid by angry parents)

This world is violent enough as it is.
 
Raz, I understand and respect where you're coming from. I agree with you that there is more than one way to do something. I guess that also applies with raising children, since all children aren't the same.

but what do you suggest if you do all of the motions with the child, like putting them in time out, telling them not to do something, and taking all of their toys from them.

and that still doesn't work...what do you suggest?

I should have worded "beating the shit" out of a kid differently. I also agree that it makes me mad when someone is hurting a kid. And it is really offensive. I shouldn't have worded it so strongly...I apologize.
 
In public, I think it's a bit much. But I remember when I was being a brat while at the shops etc. I used to get pinched in between my thigh, & the end of my ass cheek.

And you couldn't scream in pain or yell, but your face always told the story ;)
 
/me pulls out the wooden spoon...it happened to me and probally half the people our age...did not harm tough us manners and how to behave..i don't see why not
 
When I was spanked as a child I usually deserved it. Sometimes it was the only thing that worked. I know my parents hated having to hit me but if I knew what the consequences of my actions would be... there should be consequences.

My dad has a really hot temper though, and sometimes I'd do something and he would lash out. Occasionally he'd hit me in the head. I wouldn't call it beating by any means but it's really not something you should do to your kids. The sad thing is though, I can understand why he did it because he's given me that temper. My sister and I used to have the hugest physical brawls because I would lose my temper with her and hit her. I can mostly control that physical instinct now but it sometimes sneaks up and surprises me.

I guess my dad taught me that if people will listen to nothing else, they'll listen to fists. That's not so much the fault of spanking, as the fault of parents losing their temper in a physical way. But then, my dad grew up on a farm in a country which had a culture that treated children as miniature workers, and beating was quite acceptable if they didn't do their work correctly...
 
I think a little tap with the wooden spoon or hand across the backside is OK. It let's you know you've gone that step too far. As long as it doesn't leave a mark and only on the bum.

A.D.D. = Adult Discipline Deficiency
 
As i'm 3months into my pregnancy i have given the whole 'smacking a kid' thing a fair bit of thought. I myself as a child was smacked whenever i did wrong... until i could run faster than my parents that is... i tell you i could scale our back fence pretty quick by the time i was 15 !

I see too many kids that have no discipline and end up being little terrors. Yelling and screaming in shopping centres and other inappropriate places. I hated my parents for belting me at the time.. i thought they didn't love me etc etc. But its quite the opposite as i see it now.

It taught me to respect people older than me and know what authority is. I learnt rules and boundaries by knowing that my parents would belt me if i overstepped those boundaries.

To this day i have a wonderful relationship with my parents and i respect them for everything they did for me.. not just the discipline to keep me from doing anything completely stupid.. but all they provided. I can respect them alot more. Enough that i felt close enough to them to tell them when i was taking drugs and when and what i was doing. i knew lying was never an option cause they'd always find out.

I hope i can get the same respect from my children without having to resort to belting them. But i can safely say that if they do something completely wrong.. they will be smacked. They need to know who's the parent.


:)
 
i worked for a year and a half with "behaviour challenged kids" to put in PC terms..... i noted EVERY mother who had one of these little fucktards offered them a reward for being good instead of punishment for being bad when they came to collect them from the principals office

take it from me, if u yell at your kid, they might cry or whatever, but it doesnt affect them..... kids cry if someone looks at them wrong these days, im not advocating beating the shit out of all kids, but if your kid fucks up, and i mean REALLY fucks up, then go ahead, beat em down a bit.....

if your grade 1 kid spits on a teacher (happened to me about 50 times in a year and a half) and as a parent u tell him "if u dont do it anymore ill buy u a toy" what fucking message does that send?

its the same with teenagers too..... they are never too old to be belted if they fuck up..... dont get me wrong here, im NOT advocating abuse..... thats sickening..... i just feel that if u have warned your kid again and again and they keep fucking around then what other choice do u have but to belt em into shape?

my parents never hit me as a child, and although to a degree i understand why they didnt, there were several cases of my own misbehaviour where they probably should have smacked me around a bit..... definately actually.... since when does the government know whats best for all kids anyway? all governments tend to do is fuck things up in my experience....
 
I think you absolutely should be able to smack your kids, don't go sick on them - but deffinately let them know they have done the wrong thing.
I think a lack of discipline and respect is becoming a really big problem in our society!
 
i saw this kid the other day at the shops near my house... was playing the fully-fledged tantrum game, screaming at the top of his lungs, kicking and screaming, when his mum told him to quit and come along with her he just refused - she grabbed him by the wrist and tried dragging him with her, so he played the dead weight thing. You know how kids do the whole sit on their arse trying to be as unco-operative as they possibly can (still screaming and crying as loud as he could the little shit) she picked him up and tried to cross the road with him in her arms and two junior primary kids in tow as well. this first little kid was still going ape-shit in her arms while this poor mum is trying to wait for the lights on a main road... IMO she should have just set him down and whacked him on the bum, the surprise and shock woulda kicked him right into line. He woulda snapped out of his own little selfish world, opened his eyes and seen that there were cars whizzing by at 60/70 km/h and behaved himself. But instead she did NOTHING and dragges him kicking and screaming into the next shop...

Now i'm sure there are others out there who would have done what i would have done in that situation.. hoped and prayed that the silly woman would've just given him a clip around the backside. I KNOW it sorted me out when i was young....

also i'm with many others in terms of... once a kid learns just a litle bit of reason then the smacks can cease - but ffs discipline is really missing these days

-end rant-

-=DLouD247=D-
 
Originally posted by loud247
i saw this kid the other day at the shops near my house... was playing the fully-fledged tantrum game, screaming at the top of his lungs, kicking

[snipped]

Now i'm sure there are others out there who would have done what i would have done in that situation.. hoped and prayed that the silly woman would've just given him a clip around the backside. I KNOW it sorted me out when i was young....

also i'm with many others in terms of... once a kid learns just a litle bit of reason then the smacks can cease - but ffs discipline is really missing these days

-end rant-

-=DLouD247=D-
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I suspect its due to societal pressures as well. Had she smacked him I bet there would have been a good chance someone would have said something about it to her, or the feeling that if she does take this sort of action random people will pipe up and have go at you.

*shrug*

One day i'll find out what path i take. I plan to try to use as little as possible and as a last resort, but since kids have no reasoning abilities until they get older, I can't really comment until I'm in that position myself I feel.

Edit for the usual typos
 
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^^^ nice to see such a realistic approach.

It's really hard to know how you will act without being in the situation yourself. Some kids respond really well to alternative punishments or deterrants, but other kids don't consider a punishment to be real unless it involves physical pain. I've seen 2 children in the same family react completely differently: 1 was great - she didn't like upsetting people and a stern scolding would keep her in check. Her younger sister, however, would just push the limits to breaking point. Being scolded or sent to her room had no impact.

Kids have distinct personalities and not all behavioural managment strategies work on all kids. I think the only real rule should be not to smack out of anger or frustration, and to use reasoning as much as it works.
 
dbighead2 said:
Raz, I understand and respect where you're coming from. I agree with you that there is more than one way to do something. I guess that also applies with raising children, since all children aren't the same.

but what do you suggest if you do all of the motions with the child, like putting them in time out, telling them not to do something, and taking all of their toys from them.

and that still doesn't work...what do you suggest?

I should have worded "beating the shit" out of a kid differently. I also agree that it makes me mad when someone is hurting a kid. And it is really offensive. I shouldn't have worded it so strongly...I apologize.
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Okay, cool. I apologise for making you sound like a complete asshole then. :)

It's hard for me, because on one hand I want to follow my mum's example, where every child can be reasoned with....on the other hand, I was there when my ex's nephew threatened me, my ex and my ex's mum with a kitchen knife, and we had to use physical violence to stop him from hurting anyone. I don't like that at all, but I recognise its necessity.

I think we should go to ridiculous lengths to try and reason with kids. As adults, I think it's our responsibility to try and help them grow into maturity without treating them like animals. There are exceptions though, I know that. As much as I would like it if it were otherwise, sometimes we have to be assholes to ensure that our children don't hurt anybody before they're aware of what that will cost them.

It's a difficult balance....which is why I say that while I personally don't agree with corporal punishment, I can fully understand why people use it.
 
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