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synthetic vs. natural opiates

Noob question but is there much difference between oxycodone and hydrocodone? How do they compare to dhc/tramadol? Need to get new meds for my arthritis pain and wanna get something thats fun

As for the original question i prefer semi-synthetic.
 
I've only ever had i.v. pain meds in the hospital. I can say my fav is Demerol followed by Morphine. On the street Fentanyl wins hands down!! Taylor
 
morphine ftw , oxycodone and hydro always felt incomplete to me. on the other hand though, methadone is pretty cool.
 
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i without a doubt prefer semi-synthetics (oxycodone, hydrocodone, even buprenorphine) as they tend to have much less side effects than codeine and morphine etc (the natural opiates). I notice morphine is EXTREMELY constipating, and codeine has made me almost rip my fucking skin off at even a low dose because of the histamine release.

I dont really get itchy with oxy and such, but the semi-synthetics also seem to be more addictive (i guess this is probably subjective).

newmoonrecord said:
morphine ftw , oxycodone and hydro always felt incomplete to me. on the other hand though, methadone is pretty cool.
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METHADONE. That is the epitome of what can be made from opium. Far more addictive than morphine, invented by nazis, LONG fucking withdrawal, and for me more nausea than any other opiate (but more euphoria as well). I think of methadone as one of the most addictive drugs on earth, and definitely the most addictive opiate. Yes, more so than Fentanyl. Btw, newmoon, is that the original Deus Ex logo? (one of the best FPS ever imo)
 
FractalStructure said:
METHADONE. That is the epitome of what can be made from opium. Far more addictive than morphine, invented by nazis, LONG fucking withdrawal, and for me more nausea than any other opiate (but more euphoria as well). I think of methadone as one of the most addictive drugs on earth, and definitely the most addictive opiate. Yes, more so than Fentanyl. Btw, newmoon, is that the original Deus Ex logo? (one of the best FPS ever imo)
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No, I don't think so.
 
Methadone is NOT more addictive than morphine. It was made to combat heroin/morphine addiction. It's all in the way it works and methadone is definitely not in the same category as drugs like hydromorphone, morphine/heroin, or oxymorphone. Methadone was made because of a severe morphine shortage for the German soldiers.

Who cares that methadone was made by the Germans - almost all the opioids we have today were invented by Germans. Morphine was isolated in 1804 by a German, hydromorphone was invented by a German, oxycodone & hydrocodone were invented by a German, oxymorphone was invented by a German and countless other opioids that are rare were also invented by Germans. The vast majority of opioids were invented by Germans.

A study showed that morphine and heroin were always preferred by post-addicts to a few other opiates they were compared to. This was a double blind study and the subjects had no idea what they were getting.

Here is the study...(this should be an interesting read for anyone here)

Morphine is an highly addictive substance, both psychologically and physically, with an addiction potential comparable to heroin. In a study comparing the physiological and subjective effects of heroin and morphine administered intravenously in post-addicts, the post-addicts showed no preference for one or the other of these drugs when administered on a single injection basis. Equipotent doses of these drugs had quite comparable action time courses when administered intravenously, and on this basis there was no difference in their ability to produce feelings of "euphoria," ambition, nervousness, relaxation, drowsiness, or sleepiness.

Although the heroin abstinence syndrome was of shorter duration than that of morphine, the peak intensity was quite comparable for the two drugs. Data acquired during short-term addiction studies did not support the statement that tolerance develops more rapidly to heroin than to morphine. These findings have been discussed in relation to the physiochemical properties of heroin and morphine and the metabolism of heroin. When compared to other opioids -- hydromorphone, fentanyl, oxycodone, and meperidine, post-addicts showed a strong preference to heroin and morphine over the others, suggesting that heroin and morphine are more liable to abuse and addiction. Morphine and heroin were also much more likely to produce feelings of "euphoria", and other subjective effects when compared to most other opioid analgesics.

Sources:

W. R. Martin 1 and H. F. Fraser 1

1 National Institute of Mental Health, Addiction Research Center, U. S. Public Health Service Hospital, Lexington, Kentucky

Journal of Pharmacology And Experimental Therapeutics, Vol. 133, Issue 3, 388-399, 1961
 
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Morphinator said:
Methadone is NOT more addictive than morphine. It was made to combat heroin/morphine addiction. It's all in the way it works and methadone is definitely not in the same category as drugs like hydromorphone, morphine/heroin, or oxymorphone.
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No. Methadone was not made to combat addiction, it is just used as such because it is convenient due to it's long duration of action and rather blunted euphoria (I know someone will disagree w/me and it's all subjective, but most people don't find methadone very euphoric compared to (dia)morphine/oxycodone/what have you). It was invented because the Germans during World War II lacked a steady supply of opium poppies. But I agree with you that who invented it is beside the point.

Methadone withdrawal is worse than heroin or morphine withdrawal, and lasts much longer. The peak withdrawal affects, per your study, of heroin/morphine may be worse, but for methadone withdrawal, we're talking weeks, just ask anyone who's experienced it. Also, addiction to methadone seems to come on quick, like in a couple of days ... thus, the perception of "more addictive." Addictiveness is difficult to quantify, but as far as I am concerned, methadone is seriously bad news unless you either intend to be on it for life or are committed and capable to tapering, which is by no means easy.
 
Never did smack but have had iv morphine, fentanyl, and dilauladid. Out of these 3 morphine made me nod the hardest. Fentanyl gave me the best rush. And dilauladid was just perfect in all aspects. It's like the world was a perfect place when I did that.

I would like to say that I had morphine first and it wasn't as effective as the dilauladid. So dilauladid rocks it's socks.

SEMI SYNTHETIC!
 
SomeKindaLove said:
No. Methadone was not made to combat addiction, it is just used as such because it is convenient due to it's long duration of action and rather blunted euphoria (I know someone will disagree w/me and it's all subjective, but most people don't find methadone very euphoric compared to (dia)morphine/oxycodone/what have you). It was invented because the Germans during World War II lacked a steady supply of opium poppies. But I agree with you that who invented it is beside the point.

Methadone withdrawal is worse than heroin or morphine withdrawal, and lasts much longer. The peak withdrawal affects, per your study, of heroin/morphine may be worse, but for methadone withdrawal, we're talking weeks, just ask anyone who's experienced it. Also, addiction to methadone seems to come on quick, like in a couple of days ... thus, the perception of "more addictive." Addictiveness is difficult to quantify, but as far as I am concerned, methadone is seriously bad news unless you either intend to be on it for life or are committed and capable to tapering, which is by no means easy.
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Yes, I did claim that methadone was made because of a severe shortage of morphine in Germany at the time. But compared to morphine and heroin, methadone is not even nearly as euphoric or enjoyable.

Also, from what I gather, methadone withdrawal lasts longer than most other opioids, but is of much lesser intensity. This is how the drug acts. Morphine/heroin withdrawal is supposed to be the worst of the opioids, followed by meperidine (demerol) and hydromorphone.
 
Morphinator said:
Yes, I did claim that methadone was made because of a severe shortage of morphine in Germany at the time. But compared to morphine and heroin, methadone is not even nearly as euphoric or enjoyable.

Also, from what I gather, methadone withdrawal lasts longer than most other opioids, but is of much lesser intensity. This is how the drug acts. Morphine/heroin withdrawal is supposed to be the worst of the opioids, followed by meperidine (demerol) and hydromorphone.
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"Worst" of the opiates i/r/t withdrawal is very very difficult to quantify ... but people have a lot of trouble getting off methadone. This is obviously not to say they don't have a lot of trouble getting off heroin/morphine, but I think that the idea that goes around that methadone is useful for "weaning" people off heroin addiction, say, is a dangerous one, albeit one with a kernel of truth ... tapering can be done successfully, but often, people just wound up strung out on a ridiculous dose of methadone and have just as much or more trouble getting off of it than they would have getting off the original opiate.
 
xxanxxtwo said:
People make all sorts of pills in clandestine labs. I have personally seen heroin made a few times from pharmaceutical grade morphine sulfate and pressed into pills. I believe I also recall reading about fentanyl-containing pills that were made to look like Purdue Oxycontin 80's. See the 9th intelligence alert on this page: http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/programs/forensicsci/microgram/mg0806/mg0806.html
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I thought the guy was asking more about oxycodone, hydrocodone, hydromorphone, oxymorphone, etc.

I would imagine not many people make their own pills of these substances. Or I would think it would be a lot less work to get a fake script/buy off the street.



Heroin was always my fave, though I haven't used that many opiates/opiods. I've only used fentanyl once and it was one of the pops, but the lowest dose and it didn't give me any noticeable effects. Only ever used morphine orally + insufflated, and while it was fun and all, it wasn't as good compared to oxycodone/hydrocodone.

What's buprenorphine under, synthetic?
 
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SomeKindaLove said:
"Worst" of the opiates i/r/t withdrawal is very very difficult to quantify ... but people have a lot of trouble getting off methadone. This is obviously not to say they don't have a lot of trouble getting off heroin/morphine, but I think that the idea that goes around that methadone is useful for "weaning" people off heroin addiction, say, is a dangerous one, albeit one with a kernel of truth ... tapering can be done successfully, but often, people just wound up strung out on a ridiculous dose of methadone and have just as much or more trouble getting off of it than they would have getting off the original opiate.
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You're right about withdrawal being difficult to quantify, but what I am saying is that methadone withdrawal comes on slowly and at its peak, it is much more tolerable than drugs like morphine/heroin. I believe even hydrocodone and oxycodone withdrawal are more severe at their peak than methadone's.
 
my vote is on semi synthetics, hydromorphone and oxycodone, and i'm curious about oxymorphone and heroin. i'm only able to get the natural ones though, only had the chance to try HM and OC a couple times

i find hydromorphone to produce a really strong high that is sedating and blissful,
oxycodone i find to produce a good body euphoria,
poppy tea it varies but when it's a good batch it's hours of nodding
 
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