Synthetic Mescaline

[psychomimetic]

Don't confuse peyote with "mescaline" tho sock - yes, it's definately always been possible to travel to the Texas desert, spend weeks living rough searching for enough peyote buttons for one trip. But I hope you arn't seriously suggesting that a million goatee-wearing hippies did that. And yes - it was theoretically possible to send a cash transfer to some untraceable guy who had set up a PO box somewhere on the Mexican border - if you were lucky, very, very, fucking, lucky you might find the one guy who actually replied and sent anything back. As opposed to the other hundred who simply bought a Tijuana whore with your money and laughed about the goatee wearing hippy as they shot their load.

I'm talking about the kid in high school who went round in the 60s saying "I got a gram of mesc dude - just $150". I don't believe that was real mescaline, no.

This is totally off topic but you underestimate how easy it is to find peyote in the Texas desert, if it takes someone weeks of rough living to find enough buttons for a trip that person is totally incompetent. Peyote grows in clumps, so typically if you know where some is you can find more, if you have even a slight clue as to where peyote grows then a few days should be plenty for 3 or more strong trips.

Medicine men sometimes know where large amounts of peyote grow and they can go out for a day and return with enough peyote for a ceremony involving 10-20 people.

Of course, if you just go out into the desert looking for peyote with no clue as to where any is it'll take weeks, but you're also a moron for not figuring out where to look.

Mescaline is by far my favorite psychedelic, I've had mescaline visuals that rivaled DMT and were far superior to either mushrooms or LSD and I always have a better trip on mescaline than the other psychedelics. Some people will enjoy LSD or DMT more and will find them stronger, but I don't and there are others like me. Generalizing mescaline as somehow a lesser psychedelic is absurd, it can do every bit as much for many people.




I know nothing of synthetic mescaline, so I won't comment on that. I've always done cactus. I've heard many people say that cactus is a better trip than pure mescaline because you ingest a wider range of alkaloids.

 

[sekio]

Strike was busted for almost exculsively MDMA production, wasn't he? He was the guy who basically got shafted on Dateline NBC because the reporter had the audacity to do his homework. He essentially admitted to publishing information on MDMA synthesis under an alias, which was bad enough, but then he also had the gonads to run a chemical supply house which mysteriously was highly recommended by name in his alter ego's books. HMMMMMMMM - smooth. No wonder he got locked up. He also ran the Hive, which was icing on the cake.

Eleusis was the guy who got shitcanned for MDMA and other drugs. I guess ti just goes to show that there are people that still make mescaline "because they can".

Mescaline used to be availiable by mail order in the US, in the form of peyote buttons. It was considered little more than a curiosity and not seriously controlled until the mid or late 60s, when abuse of hallucinogens began to be a "thing". Mescaline fell out of use when other, more potent psychedelics came into the spotlight, primarily because of the dosage required and difficulty of obtaining alkaloids from non-natural sources.

When Life magazine published an article by R. Gordon Wasson on psychoactive mushrooms, a woman reader wrote the editors: "Sirs: I've been having hallucinatory visions accompanied by space suspension and time destruction in my New York apartment for the past three years ... produced by eating American-grown peyote cactus plants.... I got my peyote from a company in Texas which makes C.O.D. shipments all over the country for $8 per 100 'buttons.' It usually takes about four 'buttons' for one person to have visions." An interesting sign of the times was the fact that the writer signed her name.

 

[Solipsis]

My synthetic mescaline has been verified by myself through Marquis and melting point analysis (MP was very close to literature) and also lab analysis at DSM, a huge industrial company. Unfortunately they did not give a purity percentage, but no other compounds were reported to be present and quality was just called 'very good'. I did not arrange this directly, instead it was passed on through a free testing point (I love my country).
This product is a flour like powder with distinct, almost pleasant smell (only a hint though).

I have previously had crystal mescaline as a gift from a friend who had ordered it from a once legendary big source (yes the Chinese one) that has been gone for years now. I have gotten 4-HO-DMT as a gift as well, also I ordered from this same big source before these gifts and gotten synthetic DMT from them.

Making mescaline seems like there would have to be personal interest in it and it would just be synthed along with other PEAs.

Other than that I agree that it doesn't make economical sense to produce it and the far majority in the world is likely to be a long acting 2C-X or short acting DOX cut to make the product's dosage fit with mescaline. This "fake mescaline" seems to be one of the classic ways to scam people by supposedly selling something rare. In places where real LSD is scarce the exact same would be true for DOX compounds on blotter or basically anything that could fit on it and be active. Or just nothing at all. Anything enough to get away with it to some extent.

I've said this before: don't assume that if you and most others cannot get something, it is impossible. The logical fallacy 'absence of evidence equals evidence of absence' applies.

Even more obscure compounds that would seem to have no raison d'être can certainly be out there if some fan gets a custom synth.

I'd have thought you are wiser than this, Ismene (a semi compliment)... but on the other hand I know you can be polarized or stubborn (not so much a compliment). No real offense meant, of course. You can call me a thing or two that would be true as well and neither too pretty.

(Very awesome story about Eleusis by the way, nice read.)

 

[Ethyl_Acetate]

My two cents: I think 350mg is a good starter dose given your experience level and the venue. Even on low doses mescaline is still beautiful! If you've got more then you can adjust for the next time around, when I've re-dosed I just end up wishing I had saved it for a stronger initial dose for the next trip. Be sure to keep in mind the body load/possible nauseating come-up, it doesn't bother me too much it once the trip really kicks in.

If you haven't yet, may I suggest eating something light a few hours prior, then dissolving your mescaline in fruit juice and sipping it over 30-45 minutes? Totally eliminates nausea for me and eliminates or reduces dramatically for my friends.....

I'll have to try eating something beforehand next trip! For some reason recently I've been fasting for a long time, that might be it

 

[Cz_x]

Thanks for the response, would spreading the dose over 30-40 minutes make the peak any less intense or would it just make the come up more gentle on my stomach and the transition from normal to tripping smoother? I'm more accustomed to MDMA where it pretty much all comes down to your initial dose.

EDIT: One more thing, just how weird can things get on mescaline. Despite it being a festival would the potential be there to just make me feel really really alienated or would I still be able to have fun with my non tripping friends?

 

[Ismene]

I've said this before: don't assume that if you and most others cannot get something, it is impossible.

Well it's based on a little more than the fact that I can't get it. I can't get a lot of research chemicals but I know it's possible to order them from online places. Mescaline isn't like that. Interesting that a chinese place was making it tho - presumably that was before China cracked down on obviously illegal drugs back in 2003.

And I wouldn't say it's impossible, few things are truly impossible, I'm just saying the chance of the kid at high school offering it to you is remote. Jonathon Ott devotes several pages to it in his Entheogens book too and comes to the same conclusion - the people who thought they were getting synthetic mescaline in the 60s and 70s were wrong.

But everyone can form their own opinion - that's fine.

EDIT: One more thing, just how weird can things get on mescaline.

Not very, it can get a little boring if you're used to more psychedelic things like acid or mushrooms. Nice bodyhigh tho.

This is totally off topic but you underestimate how easy it is to find peyote in the Texas desert, if it takes someone weeks of rough living to find enough buttons for a trip that person is totally incompetent

I'm not sure how competent a teenage hippie looking for peyote back in the 60s would have been tho. Texas is a pretty big place.

 

[Cz_x]

Reading a few trip reports I'm struggling to find any bad experiences. Can't wait!

 

[Ismene]

I can't see there being any bad experience with mescaline as it's very gentle. It's certainly not going to overwhelm you if you've tried other psychedelics. I often feel it's closer to MDMA than a tryptamine psychedelic. What dose are you figuring on taking?

 

[Dondante]

Not very, it can get a little boring if you're used to more psychedelic things like acid or mushrooms. Nice bodyhigh tho.

Now you're just being obstinate...

I've got to agree with others in this thread who have said that, at the right dose, mescaline is every bit as psychedelic as its more popular cousins, psilocybin and LSD. See here for an example: Soul annihilating overdose. I'd agree that mescaline hcl is relatively mild in the sub-400 mg range...the 500-600 mg range is where it shows its true beauty. To the OP, I'd recommend starting on the low end for a festival...particularly if you'll be with non tripping friends. And it's probably worth taking a test dose first if you aren't 100% sure of the identity of the substance.

 

[Eyes On the Roll]

It's probably a 2c, which in other words, is basically synthetic mescaline. Enjoy, 2cc was amazing.

 

[Ismene]

the 500-600 mg range is where it shows its true beauty.

Most people still find it pretty light at 500mg. As I've already said the psychotherapist in the book "The Secret Cheif" was working with hundreds of people and he found they needed 500mg just to turn on.

And just because you can find a trip report somewhere by some kid saying it was overwhelming doesn't automatically prove your point. There's a lot of other variable to take into consideration. As the OP has said he's been struggling to find any bad trip reports and I think that's pretty accurate.

 

[Cz_x]

I was planning on dosing quite low, probably 300-350mg. I'm considering dosing a little bit higher now but I'd like to be able to function in a social group to some degree.

 

[Dondante]

Most people still find it pretty light at 500mg. As I've already said the psychotherapist in the book "The Secret Cheif" was working with hundreds of people and he found they needed 500mg just to turn on.

I think "The Secret Chief" and I would agree, though the way you put it ("...just to turn on") is misleading...there's nothing threshold about a 500 mg mescaline hcl experience. I'd say the same about a 3.75 g mushroom experience...perhaps we have a different definition of a light trip. I've tried mescaline hcl at 550 mg and it was a full-immersion psychedelic experience, though I'd agree that mescaline still retains a rather benign nature at that level. At higher levels, I have no doubt that it could become overwhelming.

Regardless, I posted only to counter your brash assertions that mescaline tends to be "a little boring" for those experienced with LSD and psilocybin and that it's not possible to have an overwhelming or negative experience.

 

[Ismene]

I was planning on dosing quite low, probably 300-350mg. I'm considering dosing a little bit higher now but I'd like to be able to function in a social group to some degree.

Depends how experience you are Cz, if you've no problem taking 400mics of LSD then 400 mics of mescaline isn't going to do much more than give you a nice bodyhigh.

Regardless, I posted only to counter your brash assertions that mescaline tends to be "a little boring" for those experienced with LSD and psilocybin and that it's not possible to have an overwhelming or negative experience.

Nothing "brash" about it, that's merely my opinion after an enormous amount of all three. You are welcome to disagree.

 

[psood0nym]

Nothing "brash" about it, that's merely my opinion after an enormous amount of all three. You are welcome to disagree.

I think I remember Dondante posting about 30 mg plus doses of 4-AcO-DMT in the first incarnation of its B&D thread, which, to me, is a solid trip. So if he's comparing the referenced dose of mescaline HCl to LSD and psilocybin I have to assume it's based on a fair subjective continuity between the three (assuming you'll substitute 4-AcO-DMT at 30 mg for a solid dose of psilocybin).

Since you haven't used synthetic mescaline yourself, you must be using either cacti tea or extracts from cacti, right? As alluded to earlier, my experiences with cacti have been pretty mild, excepting the one time mentioned earlier in this thread. The grand majority of my cacti experiences have involved combination with ayahuasca (mostly because, yeah, it's difficult to get consistent effects with mescaline cacti, even at the same dose from the same shipment). Despite the fact that my experiences with mescaline cacti alone have been pretty mild for the most part, when combined with ayahuasca the mescaline was most definitely having a very strong effect. I love the effect of the combo so much that I've chased it to two of the three most horrific psychedelic experiences of my life -- as well as four or five of my most enthrallingly ecstatic experiences (those are high numbers of experiences but I've been at this for 15 friggin years). Mescaline, even if seemingly mild on its own, is operating at a fairly deep level -- at least for me.

I'm wondering, if you've done an alkaloid extract from cacti, what proportion of the extract was mescaline? This is a rhetorical question as it's impossible to know what other alkaloids exist in each individual plant and in what proportions.

I think either you are, for whatever reason, psychologically desensitized to mescaline's effects relative to LSD and psilocybin, or you have been assuming your extracts/cacti ingestions have contained more mescaline than they did.

 

[sockpuppet]

edt

 

[Ismene]

I'm wondering, if you've done an alkaloid extract from cacti, what proportion of the extract was mescaline? This is a rhetorical question as it's impossible to know what other alkaloids exist in each individual plant and in what proportions.

It was A/B extractions on san pedro/peruvian torch so the bulk of the final alkaloids would have been mescaline as there's only half a dozen or so other alkaloids present.

I think either you are, for whatever reason, psychologically desensitized to mescaline's effects relative to LSD and psilocybin

I'm not sure I'm desensitised to it - I just don't find it an overwhelming psychedelic. It's a beautiful high and I love it dearly but I just don't find it as powerful and psychedelic as ayahausca for example.

 

[Ismene]

However that teen would certainly have had access to real peyote if he tried even a little, and if his older brother was a serious head he might well have had access to some of the commercially produced mescaline sulphate that was legally available from domestic chemical supply houses and circulating widely - including among my friends and family. Peyote was very very easy to get before laws changed as it could and was mail ordered in huge quantities from Texas. Dried buttons could be bought from beatnik stores openly on the Lower East Side. Frankly it's difficult to talk to any head from the 60s or read any book about heads in the early 1960s and not find detailed accounts of boxes of buttons shipped up from Texas - it was widely widely done. But people from other places may not understand how big the NAC and peyote culture were in parts of the US long before the 1960s. Some people also may be unaware that buttons are still legally available for anyone with NAC authorization to buy in bulk from licensed peyoteros.

So how come you said this in a thread two years ago sock?

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/519625-Mescaline-in-the-70s-and-80s

AFAIA, - in the states no one but peyote people, a handful of trich people, and a much smaller number of people friendly with chemists had mescaline from sometime in the early 70s until the modern ethno/extraction scene.

What WAS around in abundance, at least on the East Coast of the US in the late 70s and early 80s was "mesc". "Mesc" were tiny microdots of LSD but very weakly dosed. Like maybe 30mcg per

Many many fewer psychedelic drug options in those years. It was pretty much just LSD and mushrooms for all but those with the very best connections

Far fewer people knew about trichs in those days too......little peyote outside NAC regions either.

Two years ago you said there was "little peyote use outside NAC regions", today you're claiming every teenager and his brother were shipping box's up from Texas in "huge quantities" or buying them openly on the lower east side.

Are you sure there was such a massive mescaline scene in the 1960s? The cactus scene has never really taken off even today when you can buy cactus online - it causes such nausea it's never going to become that popular. What kind of disposable income did teenagers have in the 60s? Did they really have enough cash to order massive box's of peyote buttons to their parents house and pay by a cheque on their own bank account? You don't think the vast majority of them would have simply stuck with pot instead of sending money off to strange men living in hovels in Texas advertising peyote in the back of Penthouse?

I think you were more accurate in your statements two years ago.

 

[blazR]

It's probably a 2c, which in other words, is basically synthetic mescaline. Enjoy, 2cc was amazing.

No... Then most of the drugs in Pihkal would be "synthetic mescaline" as mescaline was the maincompound Shulgin started with and modified.
It's not basically synthetic mescaline, if it isn't 3,4,5-trimethoxy-phenethylamine.

Would you also state that DPT is just basically "synthetic DMT"? Or 4-ho-met being basically synthetic psilocin?

 

[1394]

So how come you said this in a thread two years ago sock?

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/519625-Mescaline-in-the-70s-and-80s



Two years ago you said there was "little peyote use outside NAC regions", today you're claiming every teenager and his brother were shipping box's up from Texas in "huge quantities" or buying them openly on the lower east side.

Are you sure there was such a massive mescaline scene in the 1960s? The cactus scene has never really taken off even today when you can buy cactus online - it causes such nausea it's never going to become that popular. What kind of disposable income did teenagers have in the 60s? Did they really have enough cash to order massive box's of peyote buttons to their parents house and pay by a cheque on their own bank account? You don't think the vast majority of them would have simply stuck with pot instead of sending money off to strange men living in hovels in Texas advertising peyote in the back of Penthouse?

I think you were more accurate in your statements two years ago.

You are confusing your decades Ismene. Read again what Sockpuppet wrote.