"Synthetic marijuana" blamed for teen's death: What is it?

slimvictor

slimvictor

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"Darkness cannot be dissipated with more darkness.
(CBS)They call it "synthetic marijuana," but experts say it may be more dangerous than the real thing.

How dangerous? A 19-year-old Auroro, Ill. man who got behind the wheel after smoking crashed his car into a house. He died. Max Dobner called his brother in a panic minutes before saying he had smoked a legal marijuana product sold as "potpourri," CBS affiliate WBBM reported in July.

Dobner's friend who also smoked the product, called iAroma, and recently told WBBM it "terrified" him.

"It was the worst experience of my life," the friend told WBBM. "I had seizures, blackouts. I thought I was going to die."

iAroma is one of many synthetic cannabinoid products sold on many web sites under fake-pot product lines called "potpourri." The products mimic marijuana's active ingredient, THC, and binds to similar receptors in the brain. Experts say the industry is unregulated, so it's tough to know what exactly is in the products teens can legally purchase online or in smoke shops and gas stations.

"The contents in the package are never the same - it's a very dangerous game," Dr. Robert Glatter, attending emergency medicine physician at Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City, told CBS News in an email. He said smoking synthetic marijuana is like "playing Russian Roulette."

cont at
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20090732-10391704.html
 
If marijuana were legalized, I would be led to believe that many people would forget about these blends completely. The main reason for their use is their legality and the fact that you can pass a drug test no matter how much of the blend(s) you smoke. I personally have had experience with them in the past but real MJ is wayyy better in every way, imo.
 
Even if marijuana were legal I'd still like to use the synthetics. The gov't should enforce regulations on these products to ensure consistency and safety, maybe do some actual research on them as well. Real MJ sucks for me, the synthetics make me feel like the first few times I ever got high and no matter how much MJ I smoke (and I've smoked for years) I can never achieve that same feeling, unless it's hash oil or something like that. Still it'd be nice to have some regulations on them so I know what I'm getting each time.

I don't see how 'synthetic marijuana' is to blame. Didn't the guy crash his car? I'm pretty sure you can crash your car while high or not high. How can anyone determine how it may have affected him at the time? especially when you don't even know for sure what you're getting in a blend. More reason for regulation. It's also not quite like playing russian roulette, AFAIK no one has died from a synthetic cannabinoid overdose, although if anyone has any evidencesuggesting otherwise I'd like to see it.
 
I don't have a prob with these blends, I have a problem with nothing known about their effects on the body and the mind long term. Marijuana is known to be safe. These blends could cause problems that don't surface for years. I don't think they should be restricted, I just think that people should be able to use the pure form and to know whats in them as well as understand that the blends are not the same thing as pot, which sadly, many people don't understand.

When I use to buy pot, I knew it was one thing-pot. Of course it contains THC, CBD and many other chemicals but I also know that it is completely safe, no matter how much is used. As far as the random blends of chemicals, thats another situation entirely.
 
I'm not a doctor (yet), but I'm pretty sure driving into a house is what we should be blaming for this kid's death.
 
Yechhh, synthetic pot... Never understood the appeal of that shit. Better off getting the real thing or nothing at all. At least with the drugs that have been around people know what the risks are. Too many kids too willing to put substances that haven't been tested in their bodies that they don't even know what they are. But I think most here already know what I think of rcs so I'll try to refrain from this turning into an rc rant. I will say that I bet if that kid had smoked regular pot he wouldn't have crashed his car. At most he may have driven 5-10mph under the speed limit and stopped to get taco bell.
 
nuttynutskin said:
I bet if that kid had smoked regular pot he wouldn't have crashed his car. At most he may have driven 5-10mph under the speed limit and stopped to get taco bell.
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Seems like you don't understand synthetic cannabinoids too well.
They affect reaction time and decision making in ways that are very similar to good ol' cannabis.
Saying that the chemicals are to blame for the accident (as you seem to be), but that cannabis wouldn't have made him get in an accident, sounds ridiculous.
It sounds like you are biased against synthetic cannabinoids/ RCs, and that it is affecting your opinions surrounding the relevant issues.

(Synthetic cannabinoids, to put in my two cents' worth, can be really good (especially when mixed). Just as good as incredibly good weed, which is one of my favorite things. I do feel that the unknown factors, such as the health risk, make it a bad idea to use them on a regular basis, but it seems to me that if you "don't understand the appeal" of something that makes you feel high like cannabis, without being (as) illegal, you are fooling yourself, and it is your biases talking, rather than your rationality.)
 
Ok obviously the "appeal" is to get high. What I meant is that I can't see the appeal in taking a synthetic chemical that the risks aren't well known about over taking the real thing that has been around for a long time, is natural and shown to have very little risk in people. I think it's pretty rational to not want to put chemicals in my body that I don't even know what they are. How is taking something that hasn't been researched much if at all rational?
 
^ that's just sensationalist media bullshit. The synthetic cannabinoids act on the same receptors as THC and CBD, they are just full agonists instead of partial agonists. If pure THC is relatively safe (only 4 deaths according to FDA, source: wikipedia) then the synthetics should have the same relative safety. It's not as risky IMO as the many cathinone derivatives out there, but still there are risks. There are risks with phenethylamine psychedelics but the classic 5-ht2a psychedelics are considered quite safe, since they (2c-x & friends) generally work in the same manner I consider them 'relatively safe', just as jwh-xxx work similarly as thc.

In the end, you are right, there are far greater risks in these synthetics than in cannabis but only because they haven't been studied. They could end up being the cure for cancer, who knows. Personally, i think there are far greater dangers in the world than synthetic cannabinoids, especially when they are used sparingly and carefully. The people using these blends are often misinformed/have no idea what they are smoking and that's where the danger is.

At this point, synthetic cannabinoids are everywhere, if they ban them, chemists will make new and possibly less safe alternatives. The only way to stop it now is to regulate the current synthetics, research their safety and make sure people are informed. As well, legalizing safe alternatives would help greatly in reducing the demand for these drugs. At some point something like this has to happen, even I admit the RC scene has gotten way out of control over the last few years.

just wanted to add that most of the problems people face with synthetic cannabinoids have to do with taking/smoking too much and causing anxiety ie. I feel like i'm going to die or have my heart explode. If people were smart enough to dose properly then they wouldn't have these problems. Of course it is asking a lot for the average person to measure out doses as small as a mg or two.
 
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RobotRipping said:
^ that's just sensationalist media bullshit.
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That's funny, I easily found similar reports on erowid.

Like this...

Within two minutes I began to feel extremely disoriented and 'stoned', and in less than ten minutes the experience became progressively unpleasant. Confused, I walked to a bus stop intending to head home. I sat on the bench, at which point my arms and legs began shaking. I struggled to stand up to take bus fare out of my pocket, before realising I was unable to move my hands in such a manner to unzip the pocket. My legs then gave out and I fell back onto the bench, hitting my head off the glass backing. At this point the shaking was uncontrollable. Within moments, I was convulsing uncontrollably and hit my head repeatedly off the glass behind me. I was then unable to open my eyes, and fell to the ground, hitting my head again off the bench.

On the ground, I was convulsing uncontrollably and hitting my head repeatedly. One could define the ensuing experience as tripping, though I had no vision. I believe I was in a state of semi-conciousness; I could hear the voices of everyone around me throughout, but could not control any of my senses. My thought patterns became very repetitive, hearing the same shouted phrases over and over, unable to respond. Within moments of my collapse, a friend rang an ambulance. I was still unable to control the convulsions or even open my eyes; all I could feel was my body unwillingly rolling around to a painful extent, which gave me the impression I had received permanent brain damage.

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=85005

And this...

At first I felt fine just like the other times I have smoked it but then after the next hit I was gone. All of the sudden something hit me. My body felt completely numb and I was getting extreme chills. I felt like I was going to die and this is not a joke. I took a walk outside because I felt very sick. Then I notice my heart was beating incredibly fast and was getting extreme aches all over my body. (Was not really a high just a terrible time). So when I get back inside my house I told my friend to leave and I tried to sleep. It failed completely and noticed my heart starting to beat faster again.

I walked outside of my room and the next thing I know I was in a hospital bed. It turns out I passed out and don't remember a thing. My body reacted to the JWH-018 in a very negative way.

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=85250

And this...

(6:10 PM): I suddenly realized a drunken feeling overpowering me, I knew I was fucked up and it didn’t feel like any other drug. I consider my self to be semi-knowledgeable about drugs and I have a fair amount of experience with a select few including Roxycodone for several months almost a year, I have taken LSD several times, but this feeling felt alot different than the normal high from the product.

(6:30 PM): I remember telling my self its just weed, calm down, pick yourself up before your mother comes home, its just weed. I was having trouble concentrating and keeping my eyes open. I made sure to put eye drops in next, and this is where I truly realized How fucked I was. As I get out of bed I lose my balance and force myself to grab the bookcase. I couldnt stand without holding on, I felt extremely dizzy and disoriented. But I had a goal, after mentally preparing myself I slowly wobbled over to the bathroom and secured the eyedrops In my medicine cabinet. After standing for several moments I began to realize the extreme nausea that was coming over me. I had to shit, and puke. I squatted on the toilet but could not stool. It was frustrating. My mom would be coming home in 30 mins and I knew if I didnt come down soon that I would be in big trouble. My next mission: get to my bed. It took almost 5 minutes of slow moving. It was aggravating and I couldnt keep a train of thought. I recalled the short duration of this drug from previous experiences and hoped I would come down by the time my mom came home. I sat in my bed, under the covers waiting for them to come and face me, overdosed on god knows what.

(6:45 PM): After sitting in bed I had extreme nausea and started to throw up, I threw up a little in my mouth and quickly rushed to the sink. I puked for about a minute straight and felt better. A little less high which was a relief but still very dizzy.
It felt like a bad case of the spins that I get when I smoke and drink a lot in combination. I crawled back to bed.

(7:00 PM): My mom comes home and finds me incoherent. This part is honestly a blur to me I just remember zoning back in and hearing 'Comon T, we have to get up and go to the hospital.' I immediately reply no realizing what is going on around me. I was stubborn, I wouldnt go. I was half-way sober at this point and I was convinced I could stay and wait it out and in 30 minutes I would feel not high. They didnt beleive me, I thought I was making sense but apparently I was slurring. I walk out to her car after lots of argument. I drive to a nearby Liqueor store and load up in an Ambulance.

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=84443


I don't understand why someone would even want to take the chance with this sort of crap when you chould just smoke the real deal, and the most that happens if you smoke too much is you are just real stoned or go to sleep.
 
Those are bad examples, where people were either using blends or too much jwh-018; i never said that it was perfectly safe. In fact I agreed with you in that it had very real risks. And most of the problems are indeed from anxiety/smoking too much/inexperience. Just find one report where someone overdosed and died from them; having a panic attack is hardly cause for concern IMO.

Cannabis is not the 'real deal', these synthetics aren't a replacement for cannabis, in terms of intensity they beat the shit out of any cannabis plant you can find. You simply cannot get near as high smoking cannabis/oil/hash or pure thc even. It's very easy to over do it on these things but why do people still smoke them? because they are intensely psychedelic/euphoric and pleasurable. I personally cannot even feel a regular cannabis high, it just pales in comparison to something like jwh-018 or 210 or the many others. And you can even mix and match them, it's like coming up with your own strain of super marijuana. You can even just throw them on your regular marijuana and get full spectrum effects which are amazing to say the least. Just think about the first bunch of times you got really high, it was trippy, psychedelic, amazing and wonderful, now imagine being able to recapture that feeling every single time you smoke. That's the appeal right there, not to mention the shit is CHEAP, economical, legal, can smoke it anywhere.

I don't advocate smoking (better yet vaping) anything but powder (which is about as close to pure as you're going to get). The blends can have anything in them, that is a far greater risk than vaping a powder from a reputable vendor (given you practice harm reduction techniques). It's not for everyone, but neither is cannabis.

Given how widespread the use of synthetic cannabinoids are I'm surprised there aren't a billion other reports like that. The vast majority of users aren't going to make trip reports on erowid either so it's hardly representative of how knowledgeable drug users handle their shit. I'm not going to convince you to use it but I don't think any of these synthetic cannabinoids would be any more likely to cause someone to crash their car/freak out/have a panic attack than regular marijuana/hash would.
 
Sounds like they smoked way too much, and the guy who died freaked out and tried to drive somewhere. It could possibly have happened with cannabis too, but overdoses of the synthetics do sound more dangerous than just smoking too much weed.

RobotTripping, just because the synthetics act on the same receptors as THC doesn't really mean anything in terms of their safety. 1. They are closer to full agonists and cause a much greater cellular response than THC, 2. They could act on other receptors that THC doesn't, 3. They could form toxic metabolites, or metabolites with unknown pharmacological effects. If you can't get high from good quality weed, it's a sign that you're smoking way too much, IMO, not that you should go and smoke high doses of synthetic cannabinoids. Do what you want, but I bet it's not good for you.

I think a few of them should be studied*, and if found to be relatively safe, legalised. But only if cannabis was also legalised. People should be able to experiment with them if they want, but not be forced to to avoid breaking the law.

*Or maybe just legalised without study, is it really justifiable to kill hundreds of mice/rats just so people can get stoned on exotic chemicals?
 
The synthetics give me an uncomfortable feeling. The intense so called intense high, requires consistent redosing and exreme build up of tolerance. I went from one bowl of a blend to smoking a 3 gram blunt of the stuff a month later. This was around a year ago. The highs from them feel panicky, even at low doses.
 
slimvictor said:
(CBS)They call it "synthetic marijuana," but experts say it may be more dangerous than the real thing.

How dangerous? A 19-year-old Auroro, Ill. man who got behind the wheel after smoking crashed his car into a house. He died. Max Dobner called his brother in a panic minutes before saying he had smoked a legal marijuana product sold as "potpourri," CBS affiliate WBBM reported in July.

Dobner's friend who also smoked the product, called iAroma, and recently told WBBM it "terrified" him.

I think that happens on this strange drug that's known as "ethanol" or "alcohol".

Kids and adults alike keep abusing it and causing fights, car accidents, strange behavior, black outs, and deranged phone calls to ex-wives/girlfriends. It's been made popular by pop stars, but even some of them have fallen into it's traps. Mel Gibson was supposedly on the influence of alcohol when he made hilarious phone calls that were recorded by his ex.

"It was the worst experience of my life," the friend told WBBM. "I had seizures, blackouts. I thought I was going to die."
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This new drug is often marketed blatantly towards young adults in the form of "beer". With dealers giving the illusion that drinkers of it will be surrounded by women that are completely unattainable.

They go home with people they meet at bars and end up with hangovers and a regret that last them forever.

It's also been used as a date rape drug.

iAroma is one of many synthetic cannabinoid products sold on many web sites under fake-pot product lines called "potpourri." The products mimic marijuana's active ingredient, THC, and binds to similar receptors in the brain. Experts say the industry is unregulated, so it's tough to know what exactly is in the products teens can legally purchase online or in smoke shops and gas stations.
Click to expand...

The "beer" form of alcohol is available at almost all gas stations and many grocery stores in enticing packaging.
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@skillet: I agree with you, just saying why I think some of them are 'relatively safe', not saying they are safe but I'm more willing to trust in these random substances than I am in many of cathinone related substances. And yes my tolerance is a bit high but I smoked cannabis for 7 years daily so that probably didn't help. I only smoke at night 2-3 times so it could be worse. I am willing to bet that it will not cause any harm, although it's all speculation and something like jwh-250/rcs-4 could be safer than jwh-018 in terms of metabolites but can't be sure either way at this point. I'll take my chances considering I smoke cigarettes anyway.

and yeah alcohol causes far more destruction, in the short and long term, on society and on the person using it. Even if some of these jwh's turn out to cause cancer it won't be any worse than alcohol/tobacco and I can freely consume them without causing anybody to worry. There's no evidence either way, why assume they are dangerous? they have just as likely a chance at being safe, look at hu-210; reducing tumours in mice. The synthetic cannabinoids have much potential as medicines:

HU-210, alongside other synthetic cannabinoids like WIN 55,212-2 and JWH-133, is implicated in preventing the inflammation caused by Amyloid beta proteins involved in Alzheimer's Disease, in addition to preventing cognitive impairment and loss of neuronal markers.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HU-210

I know this doesn't apply to every synthetic cannabinoid but the more research that is done the more benefits we find with them, unlike say alcohol/benzos/stimulants. Risk management.
 
RobotRipping said:
The gov't should enforce regulations on these products to ensure consistency and safety, maybe do some actual research on them as well.
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Just a thought on this > If the government decided to allow sale of these products and regulate it, wouldn't the manufacturer need to get FDA approval before they are allowed to sell on the market? If that is the case, how many manufacturers would want to spend the millions necessary to seek FDA approval. I would think that if this was to become legal and regulated that a bunch of the manufacturers would close shop. Just a thought and I may be way off here.
 
Hey synthetic marijuana lovers a cool thing to do is mix some of the real potent synthetic stuff like demon or the k2 pink with some middies.

Then you get the real high feeling for the short half hour 45 minutes that the synthetic lasts and then the mids will extend the high.

Ha but now at the threadd. If this is really synthetic cannbis and it acts on the same receptors i dont see how this kinda stuff is happening. At first i just thought all the storys were kids having massive panic attacks but blacking out, seizures, going INSANE?

Doesnt sounds like marijuana to me. Im scurrd now.
 
highhooked said:
Ha but now at the threadd. If this is really synthetic cannbis and it acts on the same receptors i dont see how this kinda stuff is happening. At first i just thought all the storys were kids having massive panic attacks but blacking out, seizures, going INSANE?
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Yup, I've had a couple panic attacks and they never have caused me to black out, go into seizures and end up in the hospital. I think it's pretty sad that a lot of people think these chemicals are just as safe as weed.
 
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