Benzos Switching from Valium to K-pins

[matchpoint88]

Hey,

My psych has switched me from valium to K-pins recently as I have struggled with benzo addicted since grade 7. I used to take 60mgs of v a day, but before I was switch i was down to only 10mg. I am currently on 1mg of K.

Should I expect any difference between the two drugs. I am taking them for social anxiety and nerve pain.

Thanks,
MJ

 

[MartinFn]

I think that you'll feel better with the k-pins.I use them for nerve pains and i think it's better(a 2 mg pill),I like the valiums for recreational reasons,but in higher doses(60-120mg).The k-pin is the only benzo i don't like to abuse(it's just makes you wanna sleep), but in stantard doses i think is much better.Don't forget man,that's just my only fuckin opinion..Don't forget same drugs are different for other people.Good luck and stay cool%).

MartinFn

 

[95Land]

I basically agree. I've been on Klonopin for a few years, and it's the only benzo that makes me feel "normal." All the others(Xanax, Valium, Ativan) either zonk me out, or make me want to abuse them. I have a pretty extensive history of drug abuse, but I've never had the desire to abuse my Klonopin.
Like the other poster said, everybody's obviously different, but if you've got a history of abuse, I'd say you're on the right track, switching to K-Pins. Good luck.

 

[suessmayr]

I totally disagree with the above posts. All benzos are the same, especially in case of people who have abused them (like you said you have). Some of them work for longer, some for shorter, some are slightly more euphoric and others slightly more sedating, but it's like comparing codeine to tramadol, or oxycontin to morphine, and they're all bad and good in basically the same ways.

At least this is my experience after extensive use of diazepam, temazepam, nitrazepam, flunitrazepam, lorazepam, midazolam and alprazolam. Admittedly I've never tried klonazepam but after using the above 7 I'm led to expect it to be fundamentally the same.

It's much easier to become addicted to short-acting benzos like klonopin, and it's 'ordinary' to switch people the other way, viz., from short-acting benzos to long-acting ones like diazepam. This is something you should consider seriously before making the switch; it'll be alot harder to get off klonopin.

Also I feel I have to had that benzos are all evil! I was on them for several years and, since getting clean in the past 6 months, all the anxieties and phobias and nervousness generally that led me to take them in the first place have resurfaced and are now many times worse. Therefore I don't think benzos are really a solution unless taking them for life seems acceptable to you. Otherwise they totally aggravate things.

S

 

[jeah]

I can't tell the difference between 4mg of klonopin and 40mg. Kpin is great in the 1-2mg dose range but above 10mg it becomes dysphoric in my opinion. it doesn't even cause retrograde amnesia when mized with alcohol. and it is the ONLY benzo I have ever taken that doesn't cause this. clonazepam is the least abusable benzo BY FAR for me (and I have done at least a dozen, including strange ones like bromazepam and midazolam)

I would say temazepam is the only one with some slight euphoria. I have not tried flunitrazepam though. I have heard it is great

 

[suessmayr]

^ yea flunitrazepam is bomb. But it causes hectic amnesia. I remember I took some with some mates a few years ago and when we woke up: I was in his sister's bed (she was asleep in the garden), one friend was asleep on the kitchen bench and the other lying head-down on a flight of stairs. There was broken crockery everywhere and there were black shoe marks all over the walls, up to like head-height. We all had one memory only: walking on the train tracks and dodging trains. We never pieced that night together...

S

 

[OC4ME]

I used valium daily for about 2 years for muscle spasms and anxiety due to a surgery. I always kind of had 'high anxiety' so when I tried to ween myself off the valium I found it down right impossible. My doctor decided to switch me to clonazepam from valium and I did so without any problems at all.

Clonazepam is considered a 'longer acting' benzo with a delayed onset of effects. It is used for benzo tapering programs on people who have used valium regulary for long periods of time. Suessmayr, you have not used clonazepam and are incorrect in your assumptions, so you may want to do some fact checking or RnR before you opine. I was able to taper off of clonazepam within 4-5 months. The slow onset is key for making it less abusable than most other benzos in my opinion because it lacks the 'instant gratification' so inherent with the group. Clonazepam is underutilized and unappreciated in so many medical diagnoses as well as benzo taper programs. I am a fan.

Wish you well!

 

[OC4ME]

Another reason clonazepam is so effective in taper programs is because of its longer half life of 35-50 hours.

 

[Pegasus]

I totally disagree with the above posts. All benzos are the same, especially in case of people who have abused them (like you said you have). Some of them work for longer, some for shorter, some are slightly more euphoric and others slightly more sedating, but it's like comparing codeine to tramadol, or oxycontin to morphine, and they're all bad and good in basically the same ways.

All benzos are not the same... Compare a benzo like clorazepate to alprazolam and you'll see that the difference is huge.

"In a 1983 study of patients that had taken long-acting benzodiazepines, e.g., clorazepate, for extended periods, the medications were stopped abruptly under double-blind conditions (that is, patients were receiving either placebo or the same drug they had been taking). Only 5% of patients that had been taking the drug for less than 8 months demonstrated withdrawal symptoms, but 43% of those that had been taking them for more than 8 months did, whereas, with alprazolam - a short-acting benzodiazepine - taken for 8 weeks, 35% of patients experienced significant rebound anxiety. To some degree, these older benzodiazepines are self-tapering."

 

[laCster]

klonopin is amazing especially with opiates, but i like valium better with opiates. klonopin is amazing with lyrica

 

[sonic]

You should be fine. 1mg of clonazepam might even feel a little stronger than 10mg of valium. As it is they're both long acting benzos. My doctor seems to think clonazepam is somehow better for me because diazepam has more active metabolites and has a longer half-life overall. I tried to explain to him that this makes it a better drug for tapering but he just doesn't see it that way. He actually called diazepam a dirty drug. I guess it is stigmatized in the medical community these days. I could care less though, he has no problem prescribing me clonazepam and it works just fine for me. I mentioned benzo.org.uk to him, I wish he'd read it.
Back when I didn't have a benzo script, I found that switching up benzos as much as possible helped keep my tolerance down. It's because they're all slightly different and you experience somewhat of an incomplete cross tolerance. I've been on benzos for a while and I've yet to experience a seizure or serious withdrawal. I think you'll be fine. If you have some extra valium on hand, hold onto it in case you have a hard time adjusting for whatever reason. Everyone reacts differently.

 

[suessmayr]

I thought clonazepam was a short-acting; my bad. Is clonazepam the same as 'Ambien'? If so, I have tried it after all and was confused. I agree that it is not as 'abusable' as other opiates. My psychiatrist switched me from valium to ambien and I remember thinking 'this is shit, I don't even feel like I'm taking anything'.

EDIT: whoops I think ambien is lorazepam. Well it was shit anyway.

Pegasus - I was clearly not talking about obscure drugs like clorazepate. I don't even know what that is - I was referring to the 7 or 8 common benzos that I've used. I think it's important that people know, when trading one up for another, that they're essentially just going to more of the same. That's my experience at least.

S

 

[sonic]

^ No, ambien is zolpidem. Ambien is not a benzo it's in the class of drugs known as Z drugs. Clonazepam has a few brand names, in the US it's normally called klonopin.

 

[thurston]

Suessmeyr u have no idea what u are talking about. If u took an ambien u would be totally wasted in about 15 minutes.

 

[Pegasus]

Pegasus - I was clearly not talking about obscure drugs like clorazepate. I don't even know what that is - I was referring to the 7 or 8 common benzos that I've used. I think it's important that people know, when trading one up for another, that they're essentially just going to more of the same. That's my experience at least.

S

Clorazepate is one of the first benzos and a prodrug for desmethyldiazepam. Sonic's point about short acting vs long acting is the same thing I was illustrating with that example-- The article I used just happened to be about clorazepate. He also mentioned the incomplete cross tolerance which is the rest of the issue. The point I was trying to make is that different benzos aren't as similar in effect as different opiates.

 

[suessmayr]

Sorry! Not ambien, ativan!

If you recall I did say that apart from duration of action, pleasurableness and severity of withdrawal, I did not perceive any real difference amonst benzos. Anyway this is just my opinion and I think I'm entitled to it after a 3 year habit and 8 different benzos. Clearly not everyone agrees!

S

 

[sonic]

^ Yes, lorazepam is ativan.

There are 3 main market aim for benzos, anti-anxiety, anti-seizure, and hypnotic/sedation effects.
The hypnotic benzos used for sleep such as nitrazepam, temazepam, rohypnol, etc. are very different than clonazepam, lorazepam, or diazepam IMO. You can take the less hypnotic benzos during the day in small/moderate doses and still function.

I'll mention this site again because it's worth checking out:
http://benzo.org.uk/

The equivalency chart is especially worth looking at.

 

[onlytheblue]

I like Kpin a lot more than other benzos...but I'm not a benzos person xanax will knock me out still and I've taken a lot of them

 

[hydrochron]

I can't tell the difference between 4mg of klonopin and 40mg. Kpin is great in the 1-2mg dose range but above 10mg it becomes dysphoric in my opinion. it doesn't even cause retrograde amnesia when mized with alcohol. and it is the ONLY benzo I have ever taken that doesn't cause this. clonazepam is the least abusable benzo BY FAR for me (and I have done at least a dozen, including strange ones like bromazepam and midazolam)

I would say temazepam is the only one with some slight euphoria. I have not tried flunitrazepam though. I have heard it is great

Your not supposed to be taking more then 2mg's of klonopin at a time. When you start taking large doses like that your really going to mess up the effects of klonopin. If you take it like this for long enough then your going to ruin it and probably get wired from them instead of tired.

The best thing to do is take the smallest amount possible. Klonopin isn't any safer then xanax or other benzo's. It just has a medium half life. They all do the same thing in difference ways.

If you like using benzo's for anxiety, the best way to use them is like i said in small doses and as little as possible.

Taking it as prescribed will still lead to terrible withdrawals eventually. Benzo's are hell

Anyone ever try excercise?

 

[sonic]

^ It's true, but addiction is a bitch. It isn't as simple as just switching to exercise. It's certainly a better option if you aren't addicted to begin with. Anyone who is not addicted to benzos should certainly avoid using daily if at all possible.
I've just been using for too long. I've been able to taper down to low doses in the past but it's really hard to quit entirely. My goal is to just get down to 1mg or .5mg of clonazepam per day and stay there. I used to get grams of pure benzos powders.. now I'm doing semi-reasonable doses. On a workday I avoid taking any benzos until 5pm, but I usually do 3mg/day along with a very small dose of diphenhydramine to help me sleep. I should try taking 2.5mg, then 2mg, and keep tapering. I don't think it'd take me that long to get comfortable at 1mg/day. In my experience that's relatively easy to do. It's just going from 1mg to nothing that kills me.