Swiss approve prescription heroin

But keep in mind all of those horiffic symptoms are also typical of USING meth, not just withdrawing. Opiate addicts can be maintained indefinitely without causing a great deal of harm to the user, meth addict cannot because of the physically harsh and neurotoxic nature of the substance. Junkies are reletively harmless and non-violent when they have enough dope, meth heads are more aggressive when then are on it.

As for benzo clinics we can only hope that in the future they will appear. I think its a great idea. But really benzo's should be OTC, why is a drug that has almost no risk of OD on its own and doesnt even get you high so regulated? Not to mention how many people have untreated anxiety and sleeping disorders.
 
tWW said:
But really benzo's should be OTC, why is a drug that has almost no risk of OD on its own and doesnt even get you high so regulated?
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Benzos don't get you high? You've not been (ab)using them properly :D ;).

If you are addicted to benzos in the UK then you are put on a tapering schedule - either as an inpatient or outpatient depending on severity of addiction - rather than maintenance. At least that's what I have seen in others and experienced myself. I think the problem with benzo maintenence is that tolerance goes through the roof... but that's the case with opiates too. I suppose it comes down to the fact that opiate addicts cause a lot of problems to society and benzo addicts don't, so it's a case of priorities really.
 
Shambles said:
Benzos don't get you high? You've not been (ab)using them properly :D ;).

If you are addicted to benzos in the UK then you are put on a tapering schedule - either as an inpatient or outpatient depending on severity of addiction - rather than maintenance. At least that's what I have seen in others and experienced myself. I think the problem with benzo maintenence is that tolerance goes through the roof... but that's the case with opiates too. I suppose it comes down to the fact that opiate addicts cause a lot of problems to society and benzo addicts don't, so it's a case of priorities really.
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Not saying I don't dig the relaxation factor but I don't see them are particularly recreational without adding other downers to the mix. I am interested in the tolerance issue, I bet users will eventually plateau and stay at a regular maintenance dose just like with opiods. I could be wrong though. The problem is that after moderate to severe benzo addiction one cannot ever fully recover, the GABA receptors are just wrecked beyond repair and that person has to be on benzos for life to not feel incredible baseline anxiety. In this respect maintenance is a way better option than tapering for serious enough habits because edgy people do cause alot of problems for society (another reason they should be legal, just like their more harmful GABAergenic counterpart ethanol).
 
Survived Abortion said:
Carsons Koolaid made some good points... It is hardly fair that help goes exclusively to heroin users. This has been a long time problem in many countries. I live in the UK, and I know that this situation also applies to the US; heroin junkies can get methadone maintenace therapy or suboxone maintenance at the drop of a hat. Addicts of other drugs cannot get this kind of service, even though withdrawal can be alot worse, even fatal in some cases.

Benzodiazepines, the other half of me... Withdrawal is so severe, cold-turkey from opiates doesn't compare. Seizures, psychosis... the whole works. And it doesn't end, it just goes on and on and on, so relapse is virtually inevitable. And of course other people I know, who are addicted to a vast spectrum of substances would not receive the care they need. Most addicts use their drug of choice for a reason. Many junkies need their drug... We are most of us self-medicating - because the help we need doesn't come from conservative healthcare professionals.
Awaiting flames.
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thank you... and i wholeheartedly agree with you on self medicating.
 
white_magic said:
Oh come on, there has to be a start somewhere. While it's true that the number of new heroin users is declining, as opposed to those of other drugs, heroin is widely considered the hardest substance to kick and also the easiest to OD from. When people say 'addict', an IV heroin user comes to mind for most. Try to see the glass as half full on this one. The intent is to help a group of people, not to discriminate against others. Or, instead of making this small step, should the Swiss government try to pass legislation to allow prescribing of all illicit substances (a legislation that would undoubtedly fail)?
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i did state that i agree this is a good thing... i, however, am not going to apologize for wanting to see addicts of drugs other than heroin get the much needed help they deserve. rehab is too expensive in the US for somebody that doesn't have insurance, or is unemployed. how do they get help? the US doesn't even have programs like this for heroin users... but they do have maintenance clinics easily available to them. i'm not saying legalize all illicit substances... no country will ever do that. but i do think they should expand their programs for addicts to include more than just heroin.
 
tWW said:
Not saying I don't dig the relaxation factor but I don't see them are particularly recreational without adding other downers to the mix. I am interested in the tolerance issue, I bet users will eventually plateau and stay at a regular maintenance dose just like with opiods. I could be wrong though. The problem is that after moderate to severe benzo addiction one cannot ever fully recover, the GABA receptors are just wrecked beyond repair and that person has to be on benzos for life to not feel incredible baseline anxiety. In this respect maintenance is a way better option than tapering for serious enough habits because edgy people do cause alot of problems for society (another reason they should be legal, just like their more harmful GABAergenic counterpart ethanol).
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I would tend to agree. Addicts do seem to reach a plateau with opiates and benzos and are generally pretty functional once they reach it. Benzo addiction is relatively rare in the UK as they are so tightly controlled, they are far less available and the black market benzo scene is small - pretty much restricted to opiate addicts.

Opiate addiction is more my area - although I've had the odd dalliance with benzo addiction too - and opiate addicts do seem to do better in terms of being able to come off their DOC and return - eventually - to relative normality. I agree that benzo addictions can be much more insidious, but as it's relatively uncommon in the UK (not sure about the rest of Europe) I suppose there just aren't the same support structures in place to deal with it.

This is a good step forward and I hope other countries are observing with interest, but I would like to see some kind of system for other addictions too. As has been noted, maintaining an addiction to crack or meth, for example, would be very difficult using a similar model and not very practical. I wish I had an answer to this, but I don't. I guess that's why it's easier to start with heroin as it's relatively safe and non-toxic if used correctly and of known purity. Personally, I think all drugs should be legal, but that's a whole other debate so I'll leave that for another time ;).
 
theWorldWithin said:
Not saying I don't dig the relaxation factor but I don't see them are particularly recreational without adding other downers to the mix. I am interested in the tolerance issue, I bet users will eventually plateau and stay at a regular maintenance dose just like with opiods. I could be wrong though. The problem is that after moderate to severe benzo addiction one cannot ever fully recover, the GABA receptors are just wrecked beyond repair and that person has to be on benzos for life to not feel incredible baseline anxiety. In this respect maintenance is a way better option than tapering for serious enough habits because edgy people do cause alot of problems for society (another reason they should be legal, just like their more harmful GABAergenic counterpart ethanol).
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Ive been on clonazepam for 3 years and my tolerance leveled off a long time ago. About a year and a half ago or around there. I used to take 6mg's everyday but tapered down to 4mg's a day a year ago with no real withdrawal symptoms. Now i usually only take 4mg's as thats all i need most days but im still prescribed 6mg's a day :\.

The only benzo i find to be euphoric on it's own is temazepam. It is also the only one that i find to be psychologically addictive. When i had a steady supply years ago id eat them like candy. I also find clonazepam and diazepam to be relaxating but they arent euphoric. They are fun in the sense of taking a bunch of valium and just kicking back and relaxing for the afternoon but thats it. I pretty much never abuse my clonazepam script though because it's not worth it.

It's funny that you mention ethanol because i was a alcoholic for years. Unlike most benzos i did find it to be very euphoric and it didnt really feel like any benzo. I didnt find tolerance to alcohol to level off at all and i could drink loads of the stuff. Also unlike benzos or opiates for that matter i could not function on it or control the dose.
 
I've always referred to Switzerland as the best neighborhood in Europe. It's not technically EU, but I challenge someone to pick a better location in Europe. Weed is legal there, no matter what the laws say lol. There aren't coffee shops, sure, but there are "mirror shops" and other places to buy bud that the police could give a flying ass about. Now learning that they've approved prescription heroin makes me think that they're in the running for best place to live in the world, considering they have the best of EU crime-reduction and peace-keeping policies combined with the most animalistic capitalist environment an asshole could hope for.

The only caveat to all of this is that you would have to live in a world of materialism and extreme snootiness. My friends from there (who are the "poor kids") absolutely hate the money culture. Unfortunately, they don't realize that they've also been tainted by it. It's poisonous.
 
You cannot compare dependance on Heroin/opioids to other recreational drugs. Stimulants and depressants have a different method of action on the brain and body. The metabolic theory of addiction, which is now the standard accepted by most medical authorities, says that due to the physiological changes made by opioid dependance and addiction, maintenance is the best treatment option; and for those patients who do not take well to Methadone or Buprenorphine maintenance, Heroin maintenance is the best option because it completely eliminates the criminal element and health problems related to IV Heroin addiction (HIV/AIDS, Hepatits, burglary/robbery, prostitution, etc).

Meth and Coke do not cause physical dependance. There is a rebound from constant front-brain stimulation and anorexia. Your body craves food and sleep, and the neurotransmitter systems try to repair themselves. There is no change in metabolism that makes these drugs necessary to function normally. Same goes for depressants; dependance is formed in the sense that the body now requires front brain depression to keep a rebound effect from happening- delerium tremens, seizures, panic, etc. Again, theres no change in metabolic setup.

You can't treat all drug problems the same way. It would not make sense at all for a clinic to be established that doled out Cocaine to compulsive Cocaine users; why? Because it would violate the Hypocratic oath; first do no harm. Providing medically supervised doses of opioids to an opioid dependant addict allows them to function normally without doing any damage to the mind or body, the same cannot be said for Cocaine or Amphetamines. Depressant dependancy also requires more than simple maintenance as well.

Any step towards proper treatment of any addiction is progress. There is always more work to be done, I am glad that any of it is getting done, no matter how little.
 
does anyone know the requirements for someone to be in the program?

whats to stop someone who isnt an addict from just going in there to get some h and get high?

also what if two times a day isnt enough? then do they get kicked out? or can they just get the prescription h in addition to what they are doing.

i think its definitely a step in the right direction.
 
well lifegaurdsleep id imagine theyd check your urine levels for opiates, like they do for MMT (correct me if im wrong?)

im interested as to what happens if someone requires more than 2 shots. I assume 2 shots is all they are going to get legally, what they do in there own time is there buisness? :\

this could be a double edged sword, time will tell. Still pretty cool to think somewhere in the world they have put heroin on the market for addicts%)
 
I believe the recent heroin prescription program in Canada(naomi), allowed 3 shots per day. You could make it work with 2 spaced out shots, but IME, 3 is ideal.
 
we need to implement this in th US

although it will NEVER happen...i wish I would see the day the US would do such a thing......being a IV heroin user of 12 years, this would certainly put my mind at ease....I mean with a hundred dollar a day habit....things are tough ...and being dopesick is something I don't wish on the most evil of persons....I have had many friends OD and die...or kill themselves because they couldnt take being sick anymore...it is devastating...and this is a step forward.
 
double said:
although it will NEVER happen...i wish I would see the day the US would do such a thing......being a IV heroin user of 12 years, this would certainly put my mind at ease....I mean with a hundred dollar a day habit....things are tough ...and being dopesick is something I don't wish on the most evil of persons....I have had many friends OD and die...or kill themselves because they couldnt take being sick anymore...it is devastating...and this is a step forward.
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12 years?
And your habit is only 100 a day?

Are you stopping periodically and starting again?
 
Let all drugs be leagle those who use do so without reguard for the any way, and those who don't use don't what to reguardless of the.
leagle of drugs
 
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