• H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist | cdin | Lil'LinaptkSix

Support For Those Affected by the Addiction of Others

bb I totally get your son's foil trigger. I had a roll of reynolds wrap under the back seat of my car at all times when I used heroin. I'm not bothered by foil but I see how intense the situation could be.

My daughter has been dissuaded by her alcoholic husband from attending an Al-Anon meeting with me. Initially I was disappointed, but they are only 29 and 30, respectively. I can't expect my timing to be the same as theirs.

At any rate, my daughter told her husband that I was attending Al-Anon meetings because of his drinking and how it might affect their son. It seems to have given him pause.

I'm counting that as a win.
 
All wins no matter how small or big count. The small ones add up over time. I never realized that something as small as tin foil could have such an impact on someone who is trying to recover. Funny but I have no problem hiding the foil!!!!!! Today my son and I are going to spend the day getting pedicures and doing a late lunch, hes never had a pedicure and said "mom a week ago I would never have thought to waste money on something like that, I would have taken that money and went to hang with my junkie friends" I feel blessed that he is trying to turn his life around. Suboxone has changed everything. We talked about weaning off suboxone ( way down the road) he realizes thats going to be another hurdle, but says with his mind in the right place, he knows he can do it. Anyone know how long the average addict is on suboxone? Just wondering. Have a great sunday and enjoy the small things life has to offer........
 
bb that sounds so fun! That is great, more bonding time for you two :). Addict minds are fragile and small things can be triggers, I am happy he is openly expressing them to you. That is only going to help him so much more at getting past this. And don't worry lol one day he will most likely be able to handle tin foil without acting out and going to buy heroin. This is temporary. His mindset is fragile in those terms right now.

The timeframe addicts on suboxone really differs from person to person depending on when they are ready. Some people need to stay on for years, others a couple months. After using heroin, users experience PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome) which has a lot of symptoms. When a user quits they experience withdrawals, like your son was experiencing during the period between his last dose of heroin and when he was able to take the suboxone, those withdrawals are generally very painful physically and mentally and last around 7~ days. (he bypassed the 7 day withdrawals by taking suboxone)

After the initial withdrawals comes PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome), which could include any number of these symptoms and more:

Psychosocial dysfunction
Anhedonia (the inability to experience pleasure from activities usually found enjoyable, e.g. exercise, hobbies, music, sexual activities or social interactions.)
Depression
Impaired interpersonal skills
Obsessive-compulsive behaviour
Feelings of guilt
Autonomic disturbances
Pessimistic thoughts
Impaired concentration
Lack of initiative
Craving
Inability to think clearly
Memory problems
Emotional overreactions or numbness
Physical coordination problems
Stress sensitivity
Increased sensitivity to pain
Panic disorder/ Generalized anxiety disorder
Sleep disturbance (dreams of using, behaviors associated with the life style)

PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome) can last anywhere from 1 month to a year or more depending on the users time/amount of use. Their ability to cope, mind frame, etc. It's all dependent on that person. (In my opinion the symptoms of PAWS is what leads users to begin using again, because they are subtle but also relentless and can last a long time, so that is why I advocate for suboxone treatment as it greatly decreases their negative effects.)

The suboxone will help him combat the PAWS but he will still experience them. The brain takes a long time to get back to normal levels. It is a long battle but think of suboxone as an aide for him right now.

Of all of the drugs I've tried heroin is by far the most addictive in terms of not being able to forget it. Despite being clean from it I still have cravings for it still unlike other drugs I abused/enjoyed and now despise. This is why heroin is such a difficult drug to get off of. (in my opinion, coming from my experiences)

Your son is very lucky he has the support and financial abilities to be in a soboxone program. I wouldn't rush it, take it day by day and eventually he will begin to feel normal. Suboxone really has no recreational effect (it has a slight mood lift--can help with depression for some and has some other beneficial effects) so while he is getting through PAWS, suboxone will be very helpful to him.

I hope that was helpful. <3 Much love to you and your son!
 
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I think this is a good place to post wins. I have one for today, Ioverheard my son telling one of his "former friends" that he wont give him phone numbers for his dealers. He said "im done dude, dont call, I wont give you their numbers, I deleted them" made me a happy camper!!!!!!!! I hope everyone is doing well.
 
Great news bb=D

NSFW:
smile.jpg
 
That is awesome news bb!!! Perhaps reccomend to your son if he is being bothered, to kindly ask his friends to support his decision and not bring up or ask about heroin to him. That way you arn't authoritatively saying "Don't talk to them!!!", but instead giving him control (and trust) in how he interacts with his friends.
 
hopefully some of them will get sick of the H rat race and follow your sons lead.. but until that happens he should think about forming new friendships and cant worry about his friends that still use. There is that bit that overdone states about the crabs and the boiling pot.. one crab climbs out of the boiling pot but if he reaches back in to try and help the other crabs out its much more likely that he will get dragged back into the boiling water than it it is that he will be able to pull someone out. A good place to meet new friends is in recovery support groups, the gym, volunteering, etc.
 
The crabs in the pot is such a good analogy, very true. Right now im focusing on one small step a day. We aretrying to talk through something new each day. So far it has really opened us both up to each other. Trying not to get to deep into anything just yet. My son is feeling like he is just able to start to get his bearings. Im really liking this, its kinda strange but very enjoyable. He will start counceling next week, so we will see how that goes. I get scared sometimes though, he has several friends who have quit heroin and done all the counceling, na, etc and then relapse after a couple months, im keeping my fingers crossed. Hope everyone is doing well today, talk to you soon
 
Hi all, just an update on my son, the last two days have been kinda hard, he is experiencing some depression, he still believes with the suboxone, he can beat this, I guess depression is probably part of recovery/addiction. But just trying to keep him up. Hope everyone is well
 
I know allot of this has been shared with you a few times.. suboxone is an amazing drug.. but not so amazing that it cures our wounds from addiction. So this may be a good time for your son to explore his options for healing. I realize that he is going to a therapist and this is really good especially to look for and deal with the root of his addiction.. but I would talk with him and sorta just look at all the options and their benefits and any apprehensions he has.


So we have the twelve step groups..

positives is that they have meetings that are dopamine factories and this is why we addicts usually walk out feeling really good from a meeting. We give ourselves mad credit with self applause and clean time (dopamine) the sense of belonging to a group (dopamine), meditation or prayer for those still suffering ( dopamine), the "high achieved from public speaking (dopamine and adrenalin), successfully working through our problems (dopamine), also the way meeting are its kinda like CBT a bit, as it is so common for people in a meeting to talk about an experience they had and then share how they were thinking about that experience in a negtive way so it was driving them mad or making them depressed and then people share how their sponsor or another person said why are you looking at this in this way when this is a far better way fro you to apraoce this or think about it... that combined with all the NA/AA worldwide approved catch phrases on how to alter your thought >Best wisdom or advice on staying clean you have heard at a recovery meeting??< and in result change your perception provide a pretty good cognitive behavior therapy formulated by aditx for addicts.. cognattive behavirail therapy has reslts as good or better than medication with SSRI's. And dpression is often the result of and main promoter of depression ( and yeah i said that correct).. this is why you see some of our most popular and most posted in threads are

>Today I am thankful for... ver. 2: thankful for all the darksiders!<

>Share something POSITIVE from your day!<

>Managing Depressive Thinking<

> Good things about being off drugs/getting sober<

>CONTROLLING DEPRESSIVE THINKING SCHOLARLY<

>Becoming Aware of Your Depressive Thoughts<

>DEPRESSION AND MENTAL CONTROL<


Then we have the steps..

Some of the important things they do is well the powerless thing, yeah people get all messed up on this one and i did to.. completelly awful way of wording there.. the addictive drive comes from our subconscious and it crazy but the part of brain that we do not follow its thought is much older and much more powerful that our conscious.. So basically this step tries to take us around the illusion that our conscious mind is in control and will be able to keep that promise of never using on will power alone. It also reminds us that there is and never will be a way for us as addicts to use responsible and still be happy. Sure a bunch of us came up with some cocimany way to use in moderation after the first 100 million grand ideas we had failed in less time than it would take to write the nonsense down, but we just dont seem to get much from moderate use and it causes cravings and suck IMO.

>the idea of the elephant and the rider<

Also the steps tell us to turn our will and life over to god.. but since he already gave that to us, for some unknow reason that had nothing to do with avoiding problems for us IMHO:).. So i just choose to follow my heart and listen to it and belive in it.. both these may sound a little crazy and mystical but they actually have a profound psychological benefit, especially for addicts. If you have read through the definition of addiction that is posted in the beginning of this thread > Addiction Guide < and then tie it in with the addiction cycle a little later in that thread, emotions are probably the biggest drive in addiction and relapse. We as clean and using addicts have untrue and insanely unnaturally high emotional response.. emotions are how the subconscious manipulates the conscious mind to do its bidding.. and it would not suprise me at all if some of this heighten emotion is due to the hypothalamus ramping up the strength of its emotional response to try to return to base line its effectiveness even with the drug we were addicted to still in our system and damping that response.

The brain likes the brain.. how the brain likes it brain:\ and the more we manipulate it the more it adjusts to include our manipulations and return to its baseline functioning.. good examples of this are the phenomena of tolerance and withdrawal.. because the brain constantly adjusts to incorporate the substances that are constantly used.. and when we take that substance out of the tolerance adjusted system it will swing out of adjustment for awhile and this is one of the reasons for all the negative symptoms.. also if you look at a possibility of how the computing system in the brain works, it could be something like problem that needs addressing is tagged with an emotion to alert, to drive and correlate this new problem with similar problems. In a normal unmanipulated brain the problem is logged as solved with a release of dopamine and the disappearance of that emotion. The problem with us addicts is that we circumvent this system by introducing our own dopamine witch hasn't come from a successful resolution.. Therefore I think it a really good bet that all these emotions we have logged as solved, but never dealt with and on top of that logged a deadly solution of use of a drug that causes tolerance, are still there and can be brought back by thinking related thoughts and thus exposed as problems again.

So we need to go back into the system and deal with all these problems. we also need to design a life that is really high in positive emotions and as low as possible in negative emotions. By turning our will and lives over to a higher power or by following our hearts we will issue the correct path for us, not what our parent say, not what the universities say, not what society is always saying is the correct way.. but instead we will do what is right in our eye's or a higher powers eyes and that means we will be doing the next right thing and avoiding guilt, shame, self loathing, etc, and promoting pride, self respect, peace, etc. when we follow the path that is correct for us we avoid resentments, anger, hopelessness, frustration.. and promote satisfaction, happiness, peace, a good sense of accomplishment.. etc.

So back to all the emotions we never dealt with.. we need to go back and deal with them and this is allot of what steps

4. We made a searching and fearless moral inventory of
ourselves.
5. We admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another
human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. We were entirely ready to have God remove all these
defects of character.
7. We humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.


Its a big clean of the system.. and i know that counseling is amazing but it will take a long long long time and allot of money to get to all those circumvented problems so as confession is so powerful that it has been attributed to god for many years and it free and readily avialble i would seriously consider this option.

8. We made a list of all persons we had harmed, and
became willing to make amends to them all.
9. We made direct amends to such people wherever
possible, except when to do so would injure them
or others.

this is making thing right when yo can and dealing with those issues so the emotions will also diapers or fade and be replaced with positive ones instead..

10. We continued to take personal inventory and when we
were wrong promptly admitted it.

A big part of this is keeping or system clean in the future.

So I did this for a couple of reasons nit the least of is so your son may know a little bit about the reasons for doing that crazily worded list and some of the benefits he will revive.

I f the whole god thing is a big deal breaker here is an alternate set of steps.. >Alternate version of the twelve steps<

Your son has taken an important step but he will now need to develop a good recovery plan that includes the healing he needs and many ways to promote a peaceful amazing life in recovery. And he should include daily meditation of his choice as it does so many thing not lest of are dopamine production and inner peace. also I would do at least 30 minute of aerobic activity four or five times a week.. so many positives about exercise but it relieves stress, brain chemistry regulation, and the runner high, etc etc are so amazing that so many people consider this to be one of their biggest and must successful weapons in a good life in recovery..



Hope this helps some. If nothing changes then nothing changes.. He may be forgetting that he has the amazing opportunity for an entirely new and infinitely better life. All he has to do is create it.

you guy are doing good BB<3


EDIT: what dose of bupe is he on?

edit two i edited that and im sorry i let someone from drugs forums pet giraffe write the original.. thats a little better but i will go voer once more.. geess and when the temp place said that giraffe could write8(
 
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Hi neversick, I will let him read this tonight. He is on 12mg, is that enough?????????
 
Hey you may want to let me edit that before you throw it at him.. not because i wrote anything wrong but I just hope I was able to communicate what i was thinking..


On the bupe I was more concerned if he was on to much as to high a dose it can cause people to experience things like little or no emotion which includes joy etc.. so I would recommend encouraging your son to determine the correct dose for him.. as he will be able to tell far better than the drs can.

EDIT: let me clean it up before you show it to him please..

edit two its allot better .. damn giraffes
 
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12mgs is a reasonable amount bb, his doctor knows the amount he needs based on how much heroin was taking originally. He will also be able to gauge if it's too much or too little (though I think I can say with some assurity that 12mgs is not too little per day).

Things sound like they are going good for you guys despite his recent depression--it is to be expected. It's a slow process and sometimes can feel like a standstill (both for you and for him at times). Just remember if you are ever feeling like things are becoming stagnant/at a standstill that he is still clean, and that is what is most important. One day at a time. Things will not be back to normal and full of joy and happiness immediately (he will have moments of sadness, depression, longing,) but each day will be one step closer to normalcy for him and for you. Just remember that the number one goal despite all of the hurdles these next couple months will throw at you is that he is clean from heroin.

Like I said, PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawal) can occur for quite a while after quitting even with the aid of suboxone which can include any number of these symptoms:
Psychosocial dysfunction/Impaired interpersonal skills (difficulty interacting with others)
Anhedonia (the inability to experience pleasure from activities usually found enjoyable, e.g. exercise, hobbies, music, sexual activities or social interactions.)
Depression/Pessimistic thoughts
Obsessive-compulsive behaviour
Feelings of guilt
Autonomic disturbances
Impaired concentration
Lack of initiative
Craving
Inability to think clearly/Memory problems
Emotional overreactions or numbness
Stress sensitivity
Increased sensitivity to pain
Panic disorder/ Generalized anxiety disorder
Sleep disturbance (dreams of using, behaviors associated with the life style)

They are normal in the process of recovery and they will slowly diminish as his brain levels out. Occupying the brain with other activities can help keep his mind off them. If he is becoming bored, or having PAWS symptoms try suggesting he start a hobby, a job (he can find new friends there as well), pets are very helpful in recovery (I'm not sure if your family can accommodate that or you already have any buy I know they have helped me greatly in my sobriety. He can even come on here, we have a lot of threads (social threads where he can make friends, picture threads, support threads (like our getting/staying clean threads). All sorts of things. AA/NA meetings are helpful as well but if he is nervous about person to person contact in regards to facing his addiction sometimes online support is helpful as well.

Much love to you two <3
 
Hi all, been really busy, havent been on for a while, but an update on my soon, hes doing very well, the suboxone keeps him leveled out. Guess we all need to get used to his new personality. Hes a bit different then he used to be. Hes very level! Hes not getting up and down anymore, its kinda strange because he was always very animated and up beat, not so much anymore. Its kinda of sad, but I sure would not want him back on heroin so we have to deal with it. Hope everyone is well
 
He won't always feel sad or depressed bb opates take a long time to recover from mentally. He will be back to himself one day.

I was a bit worried not hearing form your for a while but I'm glad to hear he's still doing well!!

Keep us updated <3.
 
Need help

I'm not sure if this is where I should be but I'm new to this and not sure where to go. Over a year ago I left my husband because he had a pill problem was missing work involved with other females stealing money and all. He supposedly got clean an we got back together after about 6 months. We've been back together a year now (married for 3 years together for 13 but were only 30) about 6 months ago I found out he was taking pills again and decided to try to get through it with him this time. Last week I found that he's been using heroin, others have told me this is the next step after the pill increase. I don't do any drugs at all and I've heard heroin is a bad drug but I don't know the ins and outs and don't know what to do about it. Is there anyone that can help? Thanks
 
Hmm, sounds like a tough situation. I don't think anyone can in all honesty help you with lifestyle decisions, however we can help you re info about the drugs.

Heroin is a very strong opiate (you may be familiar with codeine, this is also an opiate albeit a weaker one [which is why its over the counter]) and any (potent) drug of course can most definitely cause damage (physical and mental). Some people can use without addiction, some can't (no one can say for any one individual). Imo I would say from taking pills to using heroin is unfortunately a "step up" :\ I think a lot would depend ( ? ) on his own use habits. Eg, is he do addicted that he cannot function without it? Prioritising his use/capability of obtaining the drug over friends/family/work? Is he IV'ing (using needles) or smoking it? etc. (many questions)

Read a little on the drug and I guess you'll have to make the decision whether you can be with someone (possibly help them off it?) who uses?! Are you able to walk away (safely)? :\

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin
http://www.drugabuse.gov/drugs-abuse/heroin
 
Thanks for the response as I said I've been reading up on it as much as I can. He's used all types of drugs in the past and it seems heroin is the one he always goes back to when others aren't strong enough any more. He says that he uses it because he's in physical pain, though from the other posts I've read it doesn't seem that's a feasible reason. I agree that it is a way to escape he used it when we broke up for a short while about 10 years ago, than again after I left because of the pills a few years ago, and he's been using again now for about a month or so not too long after we found out my father in law has cancer, I personally think it has little to do with physical pain and is more of a coping mechanism for him. I'm not sure if that's a valid explanation though? Since I was 16 I've never been scared of him until now because I know of stories of how addicts can react. I also know this is something I have to figure out for myself I guess I've just been looking for others with personal use of it for me to get a little background on and opinions from.
 
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