Opioids Such large doses LOPERIMIDE dangerous?

[mareseatoats]

I'm very curious. There were so many times I was in horrible agonizing withdrawals through the years; unable to get anything to stave them off- and never knew LOPERIMIDE could possibly take most of my pain away. But the more I think about it, I wonder if I would have been afraid to take a larger dose than recommended because of not knowing what negative effects of high doses may occur. I know when you are stuck in that spot of being dopesick, it is a desperate experience- a hellish one.

My main point in question; is there any documentation of what constant or inconsistent high doses of LOPERIMIDE can do to our bodies? Of course I know it would clearly not be healthy day after day, but even one days worth of a large dose just doesn't seem safe...

Does anyone here on BL have past-negative experiences or threatening health issues, BIG or small, due to taking larger than normal doses of LOPERIMIDE- for opiate withdrawal? If so, I and I'm sure others would really like to have some experiences shared, or knowledge of what
the high doses of this OTC drug are really doing to the human body.

 

[DustnRoses]

I've tried taking about 50 mg's, when in mild withdrawal from suboxone, and it took away about 80% of the WD symptoms. I've heard that after prolonged high dosing, symptoms of Parkinson's disease have been detected...don't have a source at the moment though. I'd say you're safe to take doses up to 40-60 mg, without any serious, immediate danger, but it's definitely not something I would do for any lengthy period of time.

 

[tricomb]

Opioid just means the it's semi/fully synthetic. Doesn't have to do with ability to cross BBB. Checkout the loperamide thread

 

[Miss Kirsty]

enormous doses of loperamide could actually cause paralytic illeus leading to a bowel obstruction and even death. and as the drug is an opioid not an opiate it does not cross the blood brain barrier rendering it useless for withdrawl other than to aid with the runs, but 4mg will do that.

I think you may be wrong there dopesic...

 

[madog11]

Also you can end up with, withdrawals when coming off the loperamide if you rely on it too much. Be careful not to switch one drug addiction for another.

 

[DooMMooD]

I'd personally be worried about an impacted bowel.

Not any like worse than what my daily suboxone does for me. Or what opiates did for me. But those got REALLY BAD sometimes, really really bad, where I wouldn't shit for a few days, which is terribly unhealthy and potentially deadly. So I cant imagine why loperamide wouldn't have similar effects. I've read people on here say they took a massive dose trying to get high and didnt drop one for like 3+ days, and I"d be pretty concerned about that.

 

[cj]

I've tried taking about 50 mg's, when in mild withdrawal from suboxone, and it took away about 80% of the WD symptoms. I've heard that after prolonged high dosing, symptoms of Parkinson's disease have been detected...don't have a source at the moment though. I'd say you're safe to take doses up to 40-60 mg, without any serious, immediate danger, but it's definitely not something I would do for any lengthy period of time.

I read the same thing about parkinsons on a different forum. Are we allowed to link other message boards?

 

[kokaino]

Huge doses of loperamide is not healthy, obviously. Why take such huge doses of it? Take the recommended dose and you should be okay. You can take a little over the recommended dose, but to overdo it in massive quantities is not healthy and yes it can be dangerous.

 

[Epsilon Alpha]

3 problems with this off the top of my head:
1) stuff has the potential to cause Parkinson's if you set up a situation where it can cross the BBB (look at various studies on test animals with incomplete BBB), feel free to post the link
2) Its structurally related to the anti-psychotic haloperidol, do you really want that?
3) Most of opioid's painkilling effects come from within the CNS, so it probably won't work to begin with lest you cause problem 1.

Take a reasonable dose to stop the GI effects of withdrawal and then best of luck man.

 

[Jabberwocky]

It is generally assumed that therapeutic (0.5-10mg), moderate (10-20mg) and high (20-60mg) doses of loperamide are considered safe. I see no reason to think this would not be the case. What I think find more interesting is extremely high doses (60-250mg).

I have little reason to consider such extremely high dosages, when treated in a responsible, mature manner, to pose any significant risk to their users. Certainly I would not encourage people across the board to run out and down 200mg of loperamide. This would be extremely irresponsible, antithetical to harm reduction. But I don't find the situation, with this or really any drug, to be black and white.

Is an extremely high dose safe? Probably not. But do the potential advantages of taking such a high dose outweigh the potential disadvantages? In my case they certainly do. This is basically the thesis of my long fucking post here.

First, for the records:

we don't know for a matter of fact whether high dosages of loperamide, especially when only taken once of twice and not over a short period of time, causes any such severe life threatening negative side effects across the board, for all people

Myself and many others have taken dosages of loperamide between 80-250mg and have suffered no negative effects to speak of whatsoever. In fact I do not know of anyone who has (although I'm sure they exist somewhere, as I don't know of any drug that has escaped causing someone, somewhere problems of some kind). I also have been diagnosed with "retained poop" (yes, lol that is the medical terminology) and, even then, have been able to take doses of 200mg+ and still being able to shit normally with 12-36hrs.

Is it safe to take such dosages of loperamide (or an extreme dose of any otc, prescription or illegal drug)? Probably not. Certainly not as safe as taking therapeutic dosages or better know opiods at lower levels. But is taking 400mg of oxycodone safe? ...

However, to say that it is without a doubt going to cause serious life threatening symptoms for people across the board is almost as immature and incorrect as saying it is safe beyond a doubt. Both narrow minded gross generalizations.

Chances are, as opioids will be opioids, my loperamide use (high doses, having taken no more than four of five times over the course of my life) will never cause me any problems to speak of. To this day at least they have not caused ANY negative side effects what-so-ever.

Again, to say that 200mg of loperamide is SAFE is just about as stupid as saying that such doses will more likely than not cause life threatening symptoms. Again, chances are, if you are an opioid dependent you won't have any problems whatsoever - but this does not meaning doing such is absolutely safe, even for all opioid dependents.

Like any drug (ab)use, especially recreational, there is a cost/benefit analysis to be made by the user.

One must also take in one's history of medical conditions and drug use: i.e. I am on suboxone and have a rather high tolerance to all commonly (ab)used opioids thanks to a heroin addiction; I have no history of Parkinson's in my family, but I do have the GI issues referred to as "retained poop" (although my tolerance to opioids generally is what caused me, in my opinion, not to suffer any constipation or GI issues when taking huge doses of loperamide).

After taking my medial/drug history into account, I can make the following analysis: Given that I enjoy the effects of loperamide's high, the fact it's legal and that under certain situations I find an opioid with a half life as long as loperamide's useful, I have come to the conclusion that:

In certain situations I find the potential benefits of taking an extremely high (80mg-250mg) dose of loperamide to significantly outweigh the potential harm that might be caused by such (ab)use.

But that's me. Although I can think of more than a handful of people that seem to agree with me, I can't speak for you.

Oh, and btw, this, my friends, is what harm reduction is all about. GREAT thread! I'd like to briefly recognize and thank all the contributors and the OP

 

[tricomb]

loperamide isn't the ideal drug for pharmaceutical companies to market like that.

It just happens to be the a drug available OTC that works a tiny bit on your opiate receptors, and may help alleviate some symptoms of withdrawal. It's not a miracle drug.

 

[Jabberwocky]

It just happens to be the a drug available OTC that works a tiny bit on your opiate receptors, and may help alleviate some symptoms of withdrawal. It's not a miracle drug.

This ^ There is no miracle drug, although some certainly work better than others. It's always going to ultimately be up to the user to make the right decisions. Unless, I mean, someone or something is coercing them...

@ dopesic - What are you talking about? Who said anything that validated what you have posted right up there?

 

[sekio]

This thread is turning into one destined for the Best of Bluelight.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Awesoooome VerypleaseIam.

(1)that large doses of loperamide alleviates 80% of withdrawl symptoms??? (2)have you tried this?? it just seems too good to be true that i can pick up an anti diarrheal at the drug store and it will alleviate almost all of my withdrawl symptoms. (3)doesnt that seem too good to be true? (4)i guess ill try it but i just feel im gonna end up with nothing besides extreme constipation and abdominal pain to go along with the withdrawl. guess i shouldnt comment on something i have not tried so im gonna give it a shot and ill let ya know how it works for me.

(5)also i usually have about 3 weeks of acute withdrawl so do you think its safe to take 100 mg a day for 3 weeks. (6)i mean is this something you have to do everyday to experience relief from withdrawl or does 2 or 3 days take care of the entire withdrawl process?

(7)does high doses of loperamide cause euphoria. it seems like if it wipes out withdrawl it would also have the potential to get one high as well?

OKAY, 1st off, in the future use the edit function to add to posts your already made. Double, or in this case Triple Posting is annoying and it makes me use my weak finger more to scroll. So yea, you might not realize it but you're causing this cripple unnecessary pain, simply because he wanted to help ya out Sorry, j/k j/k couldn't help it.

But yea, try not to triple post in the future. To answer your questions...

1. Large doses of loperamide (20-40mg) will generally alleviate MOST (although not all, and it will vary from person to person given factors such as their history (ab)using opioids) acute w/d symptoms (those that occur generally between day 1 and 21 of w/d). Extremely high doses of loperamide (80mg-200mg) will eliminate every symptom of acute w/d (this is my direct experience, as well as what I've gleaned from other Trip Report of people taking 80mg+).
   
   
2. Yes. Funny you ask - I dosed 150mg a little while ago today. This will be what I believe is the fifth time I have taken such a high dose in the last nine or ten months. Ran out of Suboxone early, and frankly, I felt like getting high.
   
   
3. Well, certainly in some ways I would have to say yes, it does seem a little too good to be true. I have heard rumors of such high doses creating Parkinson's like symptoms and severe GI issues (see earlier posts in this thread for instance). I have experienced no negative consequences, however, from much use such as those.
   
   Nonetheless, it is essential to keep in mind that whenever you are using any drug, recreational or otherwise, you're taking your health (and your life) into your own hands. There can always be unexpected consequences that no one could have foreseen. These come on top of all the risks involved we know about with taking whatever drug for whatever reason (you're never scotch free, although certain drugs are generally safer than others).
   
   This is why I advocate for always taking into account the potential harms AND potential benefits using any drug for whatever reason might entail:
   
   

   Like any drug (ab)use, especially recreational, there is a cost/benefit analysis to be made by the user.

   
   I've never had any such issues with extremely high doses of lope that you and other seem so concerned with, like I have said. This, however, has a lot to do with my particular history (ab)using opioids, my current high tolerance to suboxone and my generally good health. Who knows, I might develop Parkinson's down the road. Does that worry me? Well of course, no one wants that. But I find the short term benefits I achieve by taking such a dose (the high as well as the fact that such extremely high doses keep me out of w/d for a couple days after I take such a dose, much like methadone or suboxone can do) outweigh any of the all but (as far as I can tell thus far) theoretical potential harm associated with drug (ab)use of this kind.
   
   
4. Although loperamide is an extremely potent opioid in terms of your GI system, an opioid is an opioid. Frankly, 150-200mg of loperamide constipates me significantly less these days than when I used to sniff 0.2g mediocre dope back when I started using heroin, thanks no doubt to a tolerance created by taking 8mg suboxone most every day (the heroin would have me backed up for three to seven days, where as I don't seem to have a problem passing a bowel movement within 36-48hrs after taking such an extremely high dose of loperamide). The short of the long is that, if you have been using potent opioids for a while now, and if you have a tolerance to such opioids, loperamide will likely not preventing you from shitting in the way people like to make fun of it.
   
   Yea, it won't make it easier for you to use the bathroom... And it will almost certainly cause some minor stomach discomfort when such a high doses is taken, but but like I said... An opioid is an opioid. If you are tolerance to them currently, 80mg of lope is almost certainly not going to prevent you from shitting for more than two or three days (a week worst case it you're not as tolerance to their GI effects as you think). For most opioid (ab)users you know what I mean when I say, while it's in no way fun, it's almost always not going to be the end of the world or anything so dramatic...
   
   I don't want to say it won't cause problems, because this is always possible. I'm sure it will cause significant issues for a small few, just as I'm sure it will cause no issues for a small few. I imagine that it will cause only minor issues for most (people in my situation that is). For most of us I don't think there is any thing that serious to be worried about in this regard - again ASSUMING you're opioid dependent in a mean way....
   
   
5. ABSOLUTELY DO NOT DO THIS! If this drug is going to do you any theoretical harm in either the long or the short run, taking such an extremely high dose every day for 21 days will increase the chance of such a worst case scenarios happening exponentially. I mean, I don't worry too much about the long term consequences of my lope (ab)use because I don't take such crazy doses so frequently (I mean, I've only taken such doses like five times over the course of many months).
   
   As the MOST I wouldn't recommend taking more than 80-100mg every third day for three weeks (unless you're truly special I mean - in some cases you should take less at most and others you can take more, it will depend on your specifics of your body chem and drug history). Even then, I don't feel comfortable recommending that.
   
   As I've stated, I don't take such high doses very often because I want to minimize any unknown or theoretical harm from my drug use. So, I mean, if you want to use lope to manage w/d maybe take like 20-40mg a day. It won't provide the relief that 100mg will but it's probably significantly safer than doing so. But fuck man, there's safer stuff out there that's almost as easy to get (see: kratom, poppy pod tea, etc. etc.).
   
   SO NO, loperamide is not some miracle cure for w/d that somehow no one knew about. Using it to treat w/d is, IMHO, a rather nuanced game.
   
   The ways I find that lope can be so beneficial are these: It would seem to have a very long half life. That means, when whether I'm in w/d or not, when I take 100-200mg, I will actually feel the high present for more than 24hrs straight. That means I will be safe from w/d, from one large dose of lope, for two to three days.
   
   The other benefit I find, although it applies to people more so on suboxone and methadone than any other population is this: Since you're taking so much lope, and it would seem that that little bit that dose cross the BBB has a rather strong affinity for my opioid receptors, I am able to take lope after having taken 4-16mg of suboxone every day for a couple months, and ACTUALLY get high from the lope. I would have to take a dangerously high amount of heroin, enough to make it life threatening I mean, if I wanted to get this high from dope today. Yet, given how it works and the extremely high dose I've taken, I am able to get high from the loperamide even though there is still a lot of suboxone in my system and I have a significant tolerance.
   
   
6. NO, see the above (5).
   
   
7. Yes (*he says with A HUGE SHIT EATING GRIN spread from side to side of his face*)

Hope that helps!

OH! And as madog11 stated way up there, don't forget, you can become addicted to taking loperamide too. From what I've heard, it is not fun. Supposed to be on par with being addicted to methadone. This is another reason why I don't recommend using it every day for treating w/d. Frankly, there are better thing out there.

That being said, if you enjoy the high tramadol creates (as lope's high is much like a tramadol buzz, but one that lasts waaaay longer) you will almost certainly trying a high dose of loperamide. Well, assuming you've the opposite of opioid naive. If you were opioid naive and took 200mg of lope, well, that's when you REALLY wanna be concerned about what it's doing to your body... Think people, use the tools your mind provides you with.

 

[Jabberwocky]

^+3 See, with one post you can achieve the quality of three successive ones! But seriously I like your post here. And yes, obsessing over the rules on BL is just another way for me to replace my heroin addiction with slightly more acceptable compulsions It's all the same OCD root in my book

 

[jeah]

This thread is turning into one destined for the Best of Bluelight.

I can see this happening.

 

[muvolution]

I did not read all the shit in the middle, but absolutely.

One of our beloved Bluelight loungers died from extreme high dose Loperamide. Rip mang. Only about 3 months ago, too.