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Bupe Subutex not lasting as long as Suboxone?

Woodsong

Woodsong

Bluelighter
Joined
May 2, 2011
Messages
233
Location
Georgia, USA
My bupe doc recently switched me from Suboxone to Subutex (8mg tablets for both) because I told him I needed a cheaper way of doing this (which the 'tex did end up being a lot cheaper)...

When I was on the Suboxone, it seemed like I could easily go two days between doses without encountering withdrawals if I wanted to, but with the Subutex, well ... let me describe today's scenario: I took a 2mg chunk this morning, and another 2mg chunk at about 1:30 pm. That's a typical day's worth of dosing for me... I used to take a lot more when I started back in October, with a month-long relapse thrown in the middle, but I've gone down to taking my current dose as-needed... It's now 8pm, and I'm starting to feel really antsy, and my muscles are starting to ache... It just seems like it used to last a hell of a lot longer. I've been snorting the 2mg chunks about every other time, if that makes any difference. (It gives me a slight buzz for a couple hours... I'm an addict, what can I say...)

Has anyone else had this kind of experience between the two different bupe preparations, or might know why this is happening? I don't really see why the lack of naloxone would do this...
 
@Missykins
I know, that's why I find it so strange... :/

On a side note, as a little experiment I took 30mg of oxy about 30 minutes ago, which is about half of what I would normally take when I wanna get a somewhat decent buzz going, just to see if it would do anything, and lo and behold I can actually feel it, at about 70% of what it should feel like...

Strange...
 
For me bupe only seems to last 12 hours before I redose.. Not that it's gone out of my system but my levels drop. My dosing schedule is like 8am 8pm. I am stabilizing on 4mg after being on 6mg/using dope back and forth.. When I hit like the 8 hour point I start to yawn a little etc.. I remember it used to last 24 hours plus..i'd only dose in the morning. I learned that spreading my dose throguhout the day works ten times better.
 
personally i found no difference in dosing subutex from suboxone but if you feel your dose isn't holding you off split dosing should take care of that, 2 mg in the morning and 2 mg at night should be just fine
though personally i find it very hard to sleep after dosing bupe so you may want to dose a few hours before bed time

there is no logical reason as to why you are effected differently by subutex as opposed to suboxone, it may just be a mental thing
 
I remember getting this brand HI-TECH bupe.. I actually did think it was weaker than the Roxanne I normally get. What brand do you have?
 
With me, I switched from suboxone to subutex about a year ago. I was on a dose of 8mg twice daily and after switching I noticed no difference at all regarding how long the effects lasted. I could go a couple days with no dose and not feel any withdrawal.

I'm still on the subutex but at a lower dose - about 8mg day, sometimes split up, sometimes skipping a day depending on how I feel - and now it seems to not last as long. After 12-24 hours I get antsy, yawns, watery eyes and some muscle aches. I can feel these withdrawal effects yet if I take a full agonist any sooner than 4 days after my last dose it will be completely blocked... I think some the withdrawal effects I feel may only be psychological.

I think it has more to do with the strength of the dose you're on, how long you've been on it, your metabolism, if you exercise or not, etc, more than the preparation of suboxone vs. subutex. Same active ingredient (that being the buprenorphine). The naloxone is supposed to be inactive unless injected, isn't it? So that shouldn't have anything to do with the length of time the bupe stays on your receptors.
 
^even when injected, the naloxone is inactive. But other than that, I think your right. It definately depends on how long you've been taking buprenorphine, and at what dosage.

When I was taking 16mg a day, I could easily skip 3 days, and I would only dose once in the morning. When I got down to 8mg I could still dose once a day, but I couldn't skip days with ease. At 4mg I had to split my dosage up equally in the morning and the evening, I could definately not skip a day, but I didn't feel withdrawal symptoms during the the day before my evening dosage.

For me, jumping down to 2mg a day was the hardest transition. Usually I would adjust to a dose after four days, but it took about 10 days for me to not experience mild withdrawal symptoms during the day, and insomnia at night.

I'm now at 1 mg a day (.5 2xday). For some reason going from 2 mg to 1, was actually pretty easy, and it only took me about three days to adjust. I'm really stabalized on it, so I don't feel any withdrawal symptoms at all, even if I put off my evening dose by 4 hours. However, I do find it impossible to dose once a day, even if I take 1mg total in the morning. Once you get to a dose beneath, or right at the cieling level, you definately feel a more drastic drop in blood levels over the period of a day.

As far as the subutex Not lasting as long, It's possible that the inactive ingredients are somehow deterring more buprenorphine from being absorbed, as fillers can sometimes screw with BA. I actually heard an NPR broadcast a while back discussing why some generics are worse due to what binders they contain. It seems a little far fetched to think that it would screw up absorption in the nasal passages, but it's possible.
 
It's encouraging to hear how your taper has gone... I want to hop off soon but I'm definitely concerned about feeling like shit/being depressed and ending up back on H

Re: naloxone though, it's purpose in the suboxone is to deter abuse of the drug intravenously. When injected, it is supposed to start precipitated withdrawal as well as provide a blockcde effect on other opiates, although way back I can recall a desperate day which SWIM IV'd suboxone and didn't get sick (but seriously don't try your luck.. plenty of other reasons not to stick that stuff in your veins).

Naloxone Info: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buprenorphine#Buprenorphine_versus_methadone
 
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Yeah, I usually split my doses up into 2mg chunks throughout the day, I'm down to about 6mg a day, 8 if I really feel I need it, and I usually snort em. They're the Roxane brand. I start feeling hints of withdrawal about 6 hours after my last dose though-- mild aches all over, back/leg pain, anxiety, etc... :/

Maybe I'm not taking enough..? I had a fairly decent oxy habit before, but surely not that bad...
 
Woodsong said:
Yeah, I usually split my doses up into 2mg chunks throughout the day, I'm down to about 6mg a day, 8 if I really feel I need it, and I usually snort em. They're the Roxane brand. I start feeling hints of withdrawal about 6 hours after my last dose though-- mild aches all over, back/leg pain, anxiety, etc... :/

Maybe I'm not taking enough..? I had a fairly decent oxy habit before, but surely not that bad...
Click to expand...
A 2mg. dose will last much longer if you place it under your (dry) tongue, lay down for 15 minutes w/o opening your mouth...
 
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