Heroin subutex -> heroin effects

[speedballs_over]

Hey all- am in a situation where I'm able to get ecp, a rarity for me. I stopped taking my bupe and 48 hrs later I shot seven bags of light brown powder that is from a fairly trusted source.

I did a test shot one bag, hystamine reease a bit so I kept going until all of it was gone, ~0.5 -0.7g. It relieved my minor w/ds, but I didn't catch a nod, I just fell half asleep for three hours. My pupils didn't pin. I've had this happen b/f but never tried so much at only 48 hours post-bupe (8-mg SL.)

I realize nobody can know if the dope was any good but has anyone else had a difficult time getting off at >0.5-g with only 48 hours off? Or should I seek a different source? I starting getting w/ds about eight hours after IV-ing all that so I know there was an opiod in my bags. Should I have given it 72 hours to expect to catch a nod at that amount, or do others generally catch a nod at 48 hours with this amount? I had some Valium (high benzo tolerance) b/f I scored maybe that affected things?

Thanks.

 

[Fire&Water]

The re-wiring that happens to your receptors from a high dose (8mg) of daily subutex takes a long time
to reverse (and probably never back to what you recall) IMO

 

[Screaming_Skull]

Ya....my tolerance is INSANE when I take breaks from my bupe....sucks. They say wait till your basically sick as a dog though, which is hard to do.

 

[JtownDown]

I got lucky the other day. Mind you, I hadn't been on subutex very long, maybe 5-6 days at 8mg. I ended up getting some pretty good dope and banged about .250mg 10 hours after I last dosed my subutex. And holy shit. Either I got a really hot spot in the brick or I'm not sure what happened. I had such a high tolerance to H and shooting .250mg would not knock me on my ass. But it sure as hell did this time. I was close to OD'ing. Couldn't keep my eyes open at all -- had my fiancee really freaked out. Didn't think that was going to happen because I heard all the stories of waiting anywhere between 12-36 hours and like I said, I had a crazy high tolerance to H.

 

[theclaw]

I've been on 4mg of subutex a day for past the 3 months. I was on kratom for 4 months prior and on H before that. I took 2mg of subutex last night and 2mg of subutex earlier today. I used $70 worth of H a little more than six hours later and barely feel/felt anything. 7 months ago, $25-$50 was enough to rock me. To be safe, I took the $70 worth in 6 equal doses plugged.

Was it the sub blocking that made this so weak? I figured doubling up the dose I'd be good wrt to the blocking (took it in 6 small plug pushes to avoid overdoing it).

Or was it just weak H?

Or has my tolerance jumped since being on Subs for 3 months at 4mg/day?

Thanks in advance

-Claw

 

[sm0kestack]

4mg/day of bupe for 3 months, more than likely it is built up in your system and it will take at least several days to a week of not taking any bupe at all to really get full strength effects out of a full agonist opiate like heroin. As stated above, you should generally wait until you're back in WD to bring another opiate into your system and feel the full effects. Basically it means your receptors are no longer occupied, and can be refilled with another opiate.

 

[Znegative]

^and even then, you might not feel it because the subs have raised your tolerance.

After a while I realized that the best thing to do if I was going to still fuck around on subs was to lower my dosage to under 4 mg. On 2-3mg I could always shoot a few bags and be high as fuck, even off dope, that in retrospect, wasn't that good. When you take 8mg a day, you really have more like 16mg of Buprenorphine built up in your system, so after 36 hours you'll still have 8mg, after 72, 4mg, etc. So on a high dosage like that you usually have to wait a minimum of 3 days. However there've been a few times where I've shot some dope that was probably cut with fentanyl and I was able to get insanely high while on 16mg of Bupe, but I can count the number of times that's happened on one hand, whereas the majority of the time, even after three days, the results were still underwhelming. Also, while I don't encourage anyone to shoot drugs, I also think that plays a big role into whether or not you're going to get high or not. IV is almost instantaneous, it hits you fast and hard, so even if some of the effects are getting blocked, your still at least not losing any of the actual drug, whereas the BA for insufflation and rectal, and smoking for that matter, are all much lower with heroin, so you have that working against you too.

 

[tightlywound]

god I honestly have no idea whether it's because the 48-60ish hours I waited after dosing my sub was not long enough to get it out of my system (after being on it for years) or because my tolerance is SO fucking high after being on bupe for so long but I once shot 40mg hydromorphone (before going on bupe I'd be nodding on half that) a couple days after my last dose and felt virtually NOTHING. like maybe if I focused on it really hard I could notice a buzz, but hardly anything
another time I bought a single 8mg dilaudid randomly on a whim and waited until I'd been off the bupe 2-3 days ...didn't expect to feel anything ...I didn't, not even the slightest thing. I was still in a little bit of w/d so I did my zubsolv about an hour after the D, no precip w/ds ...it didn't even make it to my receptors.
fuckshit bupe.

 

[Znegative]

I'm telling you guys, I've got a lot of experience with fucking up while on Bupe. The answer is to LOWER your dosages. You'll find yourself happier on 2mg anyway, you feel the Bupe a lot more, and you can get high on dope whenever you want. I know that's maybe not standard HR rhetoric, but really it's more dangerous trying to blast through a shit ton of Suboxone cause you can OD pretty easily that way. On 2mg I've shot up 30mg of oxycodone and gotten fairly high.

 

[sm0kestack]

Yup. What Znegative said is the correct t answer if you want to get high while being on subs.

I definitely noticed that when I was taking daily maintenance doses of bupe over 4mg/day. It would take about 24 hours, give or take a few hours, to feel ANY effects off a full agonist opiate, especially heroin. Like I stated above, it would take AT LEAST 72 hours before I could feel full strength effects from a full agonist opiate like heroin.

Now, tapering my doses down to amounts of bupe, like >2mg<4mg (doses greater than 2mg, but less than 4mg), and stayed on that dose for a week or so, the wait time of being able to get euphoric highs off dope would be considerably less. I would be able to get ANY euphoric effects in around 8-12 hours after dosing the sub. Full effects would start becoming present in about 24-48 hours. More towards the end, like past 36 hours.

If I tapered down to doses >1mg<2mg (greater than 1mg, but less than 2mg), the blocking effect seems to vanish. If there was any blocking effect, it isn't very strong at all. Simply because that small of an amount isn't going to occupy all your opiate receptors. So if it blocked it would be half ass. I would still get a rush pretty strong, but if it did block, it would be in the high itself. The feel good, euphoria after the rush would just be a bit muttled. I would be able to get FULL STRENGTH effects in about 24-36 hours.

After tapering to doses <1mg, the blocking effect really wouldn't even exist. The bupe can actually be used as a potentiator. It would add to my high in some cases. Of course you have to use the bupe first! Don't use heroin, THEN bupe. We all knows what's happens if you do that! Lol! Yummy PRECIPITATED WITHDRAWAL. SICK I know, lol.

So yeah bigger doses, used for longer periods of time, jacks up tolerance, and in turn will cause the bupes blockade effect to last longer. Weaning down to the smaller doses, lowers tolerance, and in turn, the bupes blockade effect diminishes.

This brings me to another thought a actually. Fentanyl is supposed to have a higher affinity to your opiate receptors than bupe even, so in turn, even on high doses of bupe, if you did fentanyl, wouldn't the fentanyl take the receptors over? Or is it once the bupe is there, it can't be removed by anything? I know if you did happen to OD off bupe, narcan won't resuscitate you, cuz of bupes higher binding affinity to the receptors. So what if you are on high doses of bupe, and shot fentanyl, since Fent has a higher binding affinity, wouldn't you be able to get high? No matter how much bupe you're on?

 

[adder]

This brings me to another thought a actually. Fentanyl is supposed to have a higher affinity to your opiate receptors than bupe even, so in turn, even on high doses of bupe, if you did fentanyl, wouldn't the fentanyl take the receptors over? Or is it once the bupe is there, it can't be removed by anything? I know if you did happen to OD off bupe, narcan won't resuscitate you, cuz of bupes higher binding affinity to the receptors. So what if you are on high doses of bupe, and shot fentanyl, since Fent has a higher binding affinity, wouldn't you be able to get high? No matter how much bupe you're on?

Buprenorphine can be knocked out by fentanyl, as far as I know, the dose of fentanyl during a surgery is increased accordingly to "shoot through" buprenorphine in patients taking it as a maintenance drug. Also, it's not true that naloxone can't reverse buprenorphine overdose, it all depends on the dose of buprenorphine you took, it's not like once bupe is bound, anything with lower affinity can't force it out, it's just that you have to dose much much more of a lower-affinity opioid for it to force bupe out - that's why it is possible to overdose trying to get high with heroin while being on a high dose of buprenorphine. It's all about equilibria. Similarly, to reverse a bupe overdose one would need to be shot much more naloxone than it would take to reverse heroin overdose, so in practice you could die before they managed to hit the right dose of naloxone to bring you back.

 

[sm0kestack]

A-ha... Yeah I get it.