**** Substance of the Month: October - Ketamine & Indole Combos!

Beenhead · Oct 2, 2008

October is such a nice month. In Florida, Hurricane Season Begins to wrap up, the humidity and temps fall, Football Season is in full swing. You cant really ask for much more. Hell, my birthday is in October- yes I'm a Scorpio!

After a few wonderful suggestions I thought the Ketamine/Tryptamine idea was great. Its been a while since I did the combo thing. Back last year, we had a Psychedelic/MAOi Thread. Being that I have never Tried the two in combo, I would really like to hear what everyone thinks about the combo. I have tried Ketamine, in a series of small doses. And I got nothing but a strange lightheadedness and strange visual elements (shifts in proportion, things looked smaller, farther away...). I just could'nt see throwing a Tryptamine in the mix a great addition, I was so nauseous while I did the Keatmine. But, that is why I want to know more about this, I have been told the nausea goes away once you start to hit the larger doses.

So, if anyone has any questions about the combo, this is the place to ask. If you have any experiences please this is the place to share them. Anything, even if you have a question about just Ketamine, ask.

Also, I am running out of Ideas, and I want YOUR opinion on what should be the next Substance of the month. Without it I am just going to have to start picking drugs out of a hat, and they may not be that interesting. So if you like the idea of Cephalexen being the next Substance of the Month do nothing.

LSD & Ketamine: The Slides of Time
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=104282&highlight=ketamine

4AcO-DET & Ketamine: Tomarrow on Disc HD Theater; Lessons from the Universe!
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=50392&highlight=ketamine

5MeO-DiPT & Ketamine: From Squeeze the Shaman....Squeeze!
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=50306&highlight=ketamine

LSD & Ketamine: What a Fantastic Trip Indeed!
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=50250&highlight=ketamine

Mushrooms & Ketamine: Ring My Be e ells Ring my Bells!
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=73387&highlight=ketamine

LSD & Ketmamine: Just Look at that Mirror!
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=73379&highlight=ketamine

LSD & Ketamine: This Sort of this IS my Bag Baby! Really...
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=73193&highlight=ketamine

Well I took everything I could find out of TR and threw it right on here! Have fun reading the reports and let us Discuss!

Discuss!

Interested in other research studies? Find more drug studies.

psood0nym · Oct 2, 2008

e1evene1even in the B&D ketamine thread recently said:
Pretty well every time I do [ketamine] I hook up my EEG (2 channel on my frontal lobes) on the off chance that some deep profound state occurs I can gain some insight into what is going on. One common theme I have noticed is that on K cross-hemisphere coherence is extremely low (meaning the left and right hemispheres of my brain are acting more independently). Dissociation seems a fitting description. On LSD by contrast, coherence is ridiculously high, meaning the brain is acting much more holistically, and having different parts of the brain acting in concert is likely related to the 'insights'/connection/unity feeling.

This was my response:

Thanks for that post e1evene1even. I think this relates to why the tryptamine/ketamine combination provides such a distinct experience. It's both dissociative and holistic--within isolated areas. If I recall correctly, I've recently referred to it as something like "rolling through a field of flowers inside a gerbil ball." In the past I posted this regarding the tendency of the experience to "jump narratives": "For me it was like the neuronal populations--artificially and partially isolated from the k and energized in a flurry of cross and parallel signals from the psilocin--suddenly had their vital juice dumped onto a whole new population or organization that started the epic over again. It was like careening down a hill in a barrel through a weed patch of long and utterly forgotten sensations and memories. Truly discontinuous shit: the sunlit interior of a traffic cone held to my eye, the smell of a plastic shoe mat in a hotel during a flight delay, the soaked and tattered edge of a thick paper wrapper pressed against a tropical berry popsicle, all whipping against my face as I tumbled through their dense experiential entanglements: the "address gnarls", as it insistently and repeatedly named itself by highjacking my linguistic faculties. It was nearly a Borgesian Aleph--a single point through which all others are simultaneously visible--but restrained to the mind and memory."

With these combos there's a sense of traveling to the different rooms and coat closets of the mind and setting a box of fireworks ablaze inside them to illuminate their contents. The most obscure memories and sensations have been relived (and tied together in knots) with such a sense of immersion that I find myself momentarily confused when I discover I'm still really in bed. For me, there's a potential for novel experiences during these trips only surpassed by salvia, though the tryptamine/ketamine combos have the practical benefit of consistently relating to sober-life issues and recognizable modes of being.

I think turning up the gain and bleed-through between signals with indoles while at the same time isolating pockets of their activity (or something in this vein) is what makes the ketamine/indole combination so experientially unique.

P.S. Obsidian fountains are way trippier than lava lamps.

EDIT: Don't forget DPT and K. Here's Gaian Planes' Hour Long Orgasm

2nd EDIT: DPT and K: fastandbulbous' Purple Passion Prose of the Propyl Product

Beenhead: About the nausea with k, I get that, too, and it just gets worse with higher doses. But no matter how high the dose, I've never felt nauseated so long as I'm lying down and not moving around much. Ketamine has never been that interesting to me on its own, but in combination with psilocin, 4-AcO-DMT, or DPT it's been incredible. I've also used it with 2C-E, aMT, and LSD. These latter combos didn't seem as promising, but I wasn't dosing as high on them as I was on the former set either.

Jabberwocky · Oct 2, 2008

curious why there are no DPT + ketamine combinations listed. DPT and MET (and I assume DET) actually make for much better combinations with ketamine than DMT since the timelines are much closer matched up (due to MAO not destroying these compounds as readily).

psood0nym · Oct 2, 2008

Gaian Planes said:
curious why there are no DPT + ketamine combinations listed. DPT and MET (and I assume DET) actually make for much better combinations with ketamine than DMT since the timelines are much closer matched up (due to MAO not destroying these compounds as readily).

Read my post edit.

Beenhead · Oct 2, 2008

Gaian Planes said:
curious why there are no DPT + ketamine combinations listed. DPT and MET (and I assume DET) actually make for much better combinations with ketamine than DMT since the timelines are much closer matched up (due to MAO not destroying these compounds as readily).

If you can find some let me know, Ill post em in

psood0nym · Oct 2, 2008

^Now read the 2nd edit of my first post.

crOOk in "Let the beat control your body" said:
[After smoking DMT during a ketamine trip] It was clear this would be a turning point. I perceived the music being the dominating element now. I turnt my head to the left in mechanical precision. Then when reaching 90° turn I moved it back. While at first doing this completely voluntarily when I moved it back it seemed to go without my help. by the time I was looking to the front again my head was moving without me doing anything. I found it weird when it started aiming my eyes to the floor, but let go of it. Then my body started moving in a bizarre fashion, like the music was controlling it. All people's eyes were now on me and everyone seemed to be wondering what i was doing without passing any comments though.

For a few seconds my body moved without me doing ANYTHING. My torso was moving in a snake like manner, I felt forces coming from all sides pushing it to the front, rotating my torso, stretching my arms like I had seen it in documentaries about ancient tribes that were in ecstasy, practicing their voodoo magic. It faded after a few moments of time.

Though I get this on 5-HT psychedelics alone, it's much more prevalent in combination with ketamine, and I think I has, again, to do with ketamine-mediated dissociation between different parts of the brain. I responded to crOOK with this post after he asked if anyone else had experience the "involuntary movement thing":

These movements, along with glossolalia have been my MO for powerful trips for two years now. I've experienced it and written about it on K, psilocin, and DMT (this is the shortest of the reports), violently on Rue, cacti, 2C-E, 4-AcO-DMT, and DMT, and also on just 2C-E
I think it might be related to "alien hand" phenomena, where there has been a lesion in the brain that either separates the two hemispheres or separates the left pre-frontal cortex (responsible for volition movements) from the primary motor cortex. Psychedelics use might simulate this kind of dissociation of different sections of the brain resulting in spontaneous movements, idiomotor movements, etc, that occur independently of conscious intention. I also started a thread on glossolalia, which is a spontaneous movement of sorts, just one involving the vocal chords.

And of course, the same thing happened to the most extraordinary degree yet during "Reflections in the Obsidian Fountain," linked to at the top of this thread.

Beenhead · Oct 2, 2008

thanks! I actually dont know how I missed the F&B one, its been here forever

psood0nym · Oct 2, 2008

^Sure. In their thread titles they called ketamine "k," and in all your searches you have "ketamine" highlighted. I think in f&b's title you would have had to have searched for "DPT/K" with no spaces to find it. I've just seen them both linked to in the PD forum recently.

In the ketamine combos I've tried, DPT/K is only second to 4-ho/AcO-DMT. Mentally it's pretty similar to the latter (strikingly so), but for me it lacks the automatic body movements and glossolalia that make the psilocin experiences so damned... vigorous.

I wrote what I consider to be a short report on a recent DXM/ketamine/DPT trip here, too. It's just a post in the B&D ketamine thread, but it's probably longer than most TRs.

Beenhead · Oct 2, 2008

So you like talking as if possessed by Dionysus!

Jabberwocky · Oct 2, 2008

do these substances of the month mean we have to binge on only tryptamines and ketamine the entire month? This is a good thing, no?

psood0nym · Oct 2, 2008

Beenhead said:
So you like talking as if possessed by Dionysus!

Yeah. To be honest though, and I say this in the glossolalia thread I started after my first psilocin/k experience, I've never spat out that kind of jabbering gibberish style of glossolalia that's best documented. Sounds like a blast though.

Instead, I get poetic automatic speech on psychedelics occasionally, and never more than with psilocin and k (the most complex example of which inspired that glossolalia thread linked to above). It starts with a question, then I get a sound and a feeling and an image I feel compelled to "name" out loud. When I say in my first post in this thread: "the "address gnarls", as it insistently and repeatedly named itself by hijacking my linguistic faculties," I mean it. It was a very tactile feeling of sensations and conceptual associations being twisted into one another and wringing out sounds and certain motions of my tongue and mouth. In this case, it made me say "nall," "ess arls," "addresses" and on and on until I actually said "address gnarls." Then it stopped, having satisfactorily answered the question I was asking myself: "where am I?" And the answer was: the place in my your mind where all your memories are knotted up in one encoded location (address=location code, gnarls=compressed twist of something.) The subjective experience of the process was not one of an analytical search for proper words, but of a synthesis of feeling and sensation that irresistibly insisted on a term that fit right. I'd never so completely experienced this kind of synthetic route to communicating with the non-conscious mind before. But it actually happened while on these drugs. That's one big reason why I think the psilocin/4-AcO-DMT/ketamine combo has such amazing potential.

I almost want to say it's my right hemisphere trying to "say something," in the kind of artful/synthetic/holistic way the right hemisphere is known to operate. But it can't because the ketamine is blocking its signals to the left hemisphere's volitional linguistic faculties (what's usually needed to actually choose to say something and say it) in the left prefrontal cortex. This is speculation of course, but the fact that the combo forces me to think in unique and qualitatively distinct ways is, to me, unquestionable. It forces thoughts to re-route themselves in new ways that simply wouldn't happen without drugs. If we can learn to interpret these re-routed thoughts with some degree of coherence I think it's fair to call the result genuine mind expansion.

Xorkoth · Oct 5, 2008

Psoodonym is probably my favorite poster to read. Fortunately for us, we has written a lot about ketamine and tryptamines in combination.

Beenhead · Oct 7, 2008

What are the best types of crosses between Ketamine and Tryptamines and why

psood0nym · Oct 7, 2008

^I’ll leave that question to everyone else. However, I wrote the greater portion of what follows three days ago. It’s the remaining context that gives shape to my enthusiasm for this combination. I left it idle because I thought all my throat clearing was choking this thread. I tried for three days, but I’ve thought it through, and I’m ready to resume strangling.

First: Xorkoth, normally I refrain from the use of emoticons out of personal preference. But, for you, what the hell:

Now. As elaborated above, I feel that the combination of serotonergic psychedelics and dissociatives can supply many of us with a unique path to mind expansion that, historically speaking, has only recently opened up as an opportunity to the human mind. Let me, further, elaborate.

I’m familiar with three major chemically-paved roads to mind expansion, broadly defined: the psychedelic-serotonergic, the dissociative, and the, for lack of a better term, “salvial.”

An example of how serotonergics expand the mind can be illustrated through the way their signal amplification and signal “bleed through” effects can result in the incorporation of usually non-conscious activity into conscious trains of thought.

The effects of dissociatives, again simplified for illustrative purposes, can expand the mind by blocking signals from the body that would otherwise whiteout the flicker of more subtle thoughts and experiences usually too dim to be captured by consciousness; they also re-shape the routes thoughts and sensations can take through the brain by discriminatorily pulling the plug on those electrochemical pathways that, one way or another, rely more heavily on NMDA than others to light their way, thereby forcing us down paths less traveled.

Salvia, at its inimitable best and most profound, accomplishes mind expansion through the substitution of ego identities. For the duration of its peak influence, some have come to believe they are themselves at an earlier age, other people or entities, objects, or even many objects at once. But despite what many, understandably, consider to be an insurmountable feeling of personal distance and alienation from the experience, a deeper phenomenology can be revealed through reflection on what is constant throughout these experiences and what is not, and through keeping an eye on the sequence of psychological events that precipitate the complete recall of our former and ongoing lives—as that process bears witness to the very re-construction of ourselves.

In my experience, the ketamine/indole combination connects two of these major routes with innumerable new bridges and back roads, and reveals new wonders and landmarks hidden within the previously out of reach spaces of my experiential topography. It may seem silly or pretentious to imagine that what many consider to be an experience of simply getting fucked up really deserves the lofty ascriptions I’m foisting on it here. But, as a simple matter of being one of a self-aware species that is in many ways unique to this world in its capacities and influence, I can’t avoid concluding that there is little more important that we can bring to it than new experiential knowledge of consciousness—the great and malleable depth of which is humankind’s most definitive, and underutilized, attribute. To me, taking disciplined and systematic advantage of any and all tools that can aid in these new efforts is part of a responsibility inherent to the nature of my own existence. I’m happy to oblige. I know many here are, too.

Jabberwocky · Oct 11, 2008

psood0nym said:
In my experience, the ketamine/indole combination connects two of these major routes with innumerable new bridges and back roads, and reveals new wonders and landmarks hidden within the previously out of reach spaces of my experiential topography.

yes, oh yes, this is right on (ime).

If you want what you did not imagine could be unlocked to be unlocked, try a high dose ketamine/indole combination.

INFINITE LOVE IS UNLOCKED

Sturnam · Oct 13, 2008

i will be trying the IM DPT+K combo very soon

a low dose, 10mg DPT and 30mg K, just to test the waters.

Beenhead · Oct 14, 2008

Please give us a report.

Sturnam · Oct 14, 2008

You wish has been granted.

Tried to make my second TR a little better. Did the whole word document with editing thing, but unfortunately I can't remember a lot of the trip. But i dont think it was anything too memorable in the first place though. more like a fun 'vacation' which i have definitely needed recently.

edit: I know it's in this same forum, but since we seem to be compiling a list, here's the link to mine.
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=401073

EDIT {Beenhead}: I thought I would post your report here for the lazy folks, and for ease.

Last night at about 00:37 I decided to IM 10mg DPT and 30mg of (I think) S(+) ketamine.
This was my second time ever IM’ing something; the first time was the night before this of 30mg ketamine. It is also my first time trying DPT, but I am very experienced with lower doses of ketamine, but have never K-holed myself.

It may have not been the best setting; I have some homework to memorize for a presentation tomorrow as well as a test, but I decided that I NEEDED to try this out. After all I had heard, I don’t know how I could pass this opportunity up. It is the one day that I don’t have to wake up early, so I figured I would have more than enough time to finish my homework in the morning. The other factor was that I’ve had some minor problems with opiate use in the past, and I recently got some 8mg dilaudids. I’m in a very stressful place with school right now, and hoping that the experience, although mild, would help me control my use a little bit more.

After I injected the DPT+K, I went and I laid in my bed and listened to music. It’s what I generally find most comfortable to do while tripping. This is probably due to my lack of experience with psychedelics in general, as well as the fact that I’m not used to the strange body sensations, so I often get uncomfortable and anti-social with other people around. I listened to The Decemeberists “The Crane Wife 1” which is an absolutely amazing songs that just gives me shivers every time I hear it. It was the first song I listened to though, and at that point I felt the ketamine much more than the DPT, so I think next time I need to have it later in the playlist. However, while I was listening to a part where they had little bells going off in the background is when the DPT starting kicking it, with tiny blue dots started appearing in time with the bells.

The next thing I listened to was Andrew Bird, and this was where most of the trip took place. Each song was a story, that was played out inside my head, almost like a conversation. Several times I had to stop myself from responding to the music, or trying to shout out arguing against it. I wanted to tell the people the right decision to make or talk to them about their problems, but then they continued on without me. The only way I can describe it is that it was much more than music. I was completely involved with what was going on and surrounded by it. Each instrument played more of a role than simply making music; each instrument was its own person, and through their notes I could see their feelings, passions, and issues. But the songs were never depressing because there were always the other instruments there supporting each other, and helped each other through it. It felt like the end of each song was somewhat akin to the end of a great battle, where you could let out a giant sigh of relief that everything had worked out so well.

I went to the bathroom around 02:00 and was able to sleep shortly after then. I woke up this morning at 11:30 feeling very refreshed, although I had not gone as deep as I had wished. There were several things I had tried to think about during the trip, but the music seemed to grab hold of the experience and control where it went. This dose might be good for a somewhat more recreational experience, maybe a good movie-going dose. You seem to get extremely involved with any media you’re engaged with.

I think the combo of psychedelic+K I really like in general, since I dislike the strange come-up and general uncomfortable body feelings psychedelics give me. The ketamine provides a numbing and calming effect, so that I don’t notice the amphetamine-like qualities of psychedelics (I HATE stimulants) and also so the strange body sensations are lessened. It also seems to make the experience more immersive, and more “full” which is one characteristic that I really enjoyed.

This is a combo that I will definitely try again at a higher dose in the future.

Beenhead · Oct 15, 2008

Gaian Planes said:
do these substances of the month mean we have to binge on only tryptamines and ketamine the entire month? This is a good thing, no?

I just saw this post, and yes it means exactly that!

Maya314 · Oct 15, 2008

Nice posts all around! As I square away certain aspects of my life I'll definitely have to start doing some research. Psoodonym: I LOVE your descriptions, lucid and poetic. Sturnam: I hope your school shit balances itself out, Andrew Bird must be AMAZING trip music. Beenhead: Mettle rocks, stay fearless! :D Gaian Plains: Loving the Krsna!

Kudos to infinite love and all life-poets, on this board and on the planet at large. I'm so glad I joined this forum! :bow:

**** Substance of the Month: October - Ketamine & Indole Combos!

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