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Suboxone W/D Sux...What About Kratom?

I think it’s better for you to do what you need to take care of yourself. You can worry about getting off when you’ve stabilized down the road. What meds are you taking these days?

My wife controls the clonazepam with a lock box. I can usually get 2 after 6 PM although she wants me to settle for 1. I usually take 300 adrafinil in the morning. After I wake up a little I take between 4 - 6 grams of white maeng da. I'm thinking of cutting it out gradually because I'm not convinced it's doing much for me anymore. My worst habit is tianeptine which I'm just about out of. It helped a lot at first but now more headaches. And of course there's the occasional bong toke just to put these things into perspective.

I'm not dealing with doctors for a while if I can help it. All I probably really need is my thyroid and blood pressure meds which I do still get from a doctor. I get out and walk or bike, probably not enough but the motivation is increasing. My older cousin is moving back from Chicago. She's just a social drinker. I'm looking forward to her being around to do stuff with.
 
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Tianeptine can be pretty nasty stuff. If you’ve been using it for a while you might want to try tapering a bit, or at least waiting to stop the kratom until you’ve come off the tianeptine. It’s good to keep an eye on the kratom too, as dependency there sucks (though not as bad as what I hear about tianeptine).
 
The bupe WD is a bitch and there is no easy answer. It can cure WD from any other opiate, but it's hare to control WD with bupe with other opiates until some time has passed. It binds so tightly to the receptors and stays so long and other drugs cannot start to take over for a few weeks. Be careful you don't trade one addiction for another. It's the long term aches, pains, feeling poorly, and general muddleheadness that is the worst.

BTW I tapered down to 1/8th of a mg and I still suffered for months. At this point I did occasionally supplement with a short acting opioid which I will not mention. Anyways, I see no reason you cannon stay on bupe for the rest of your life. It seems to me the best decision. You have mentioned your health problems and a relapse would be devastating.
 
Tianeptine can be pretty nasty stuff. If you’ve been using it for a while you might want to try tapering a bit, or at least waiting to stop the kratom until you’ve come off the tianeptine. It’s good to keep an eye on the kratom too, as dependency there sucks (though not as bad as what I hear about tianeptine).

Good advice! Trying to sleep tonite with very little tianeptine is proving more challenging than it should be. I'm definitely stepping the T down.
 
The bupe WD is a bitch and there is no easy answer. It can cure WD from any other opiate, but it's hare to control WD with bupe with other opiates until some time has passed. It binds so tightly to the receptors and stays so long and other drugs cannot start to take over for a few weeks. Be careful you don't trade one addiction for another. It's the long term aches, pains, feeling poorly, and general muddleheadness that is the worst.

BTW I tapered down to 1/8th of a mg and I still suffered for months. At this point I did occasionally supplement with a short acting opioid which I will not mention. Anyways, I see no reason you cannon stay on bupe for the rest of your life. It seems to me the best decision. You have mentioned your health problems and a relapse would be devastating.

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to post--the problem has been solved, at least for the foreseeable future. I admitted to my original doctor that I'd run out early, but by the time I saw him it wasn't that long before I was due and I said I'd just run out. (I wasn't going to tell him about the kratom!) He had thought (and charted) last time we met that I had decided to stay on Sub. I didn't remember it that way, but since it's what I've decided now, just agreed with him. The only reason I was seeking another doctor was because of him retiring. He said he'd keep seeing me as a self-pay patient--and he doesn't charge me much at all--indefinitely, which is cool.

He's also changing my diagnosis from addiction to pain, so that if something should happen to him, I only have to find a doctor who will prescribe it for pain, and any doctor CAN do that. In fact, he may switch me to Subutex next time because it's cheaper. After all, I've been with him for at least ten years, have never sold my strips and never ran out early until my dose was just too low to keep me well. He also doubled my dose back up to 1/4 strip (1/2 mg; I'm using 2 mg strips) every other day. Since I'd been taking a lot of kratom, it's just barely doing the job, and taking kratom on top of it does nothing except right at the end of the second day. I do take a couple of capsules then if I can't sleep, but now that the Sub is getting back into my system it should only be a few more days before it holds me long enough.

I do intend to stay on it the rest of my life, however long that is. It's just not worth going through the withdrawals, the insomnia, restless legs, back pain, etc., that comes from getting off it. Whether it was withdrawal or if it's just that I've been on opiates of some kind for so many years that it's abnormal for me to be without them, it really doesn't matter. I'm very glad to have had the support from all of you here and I intend to stick around and hope my experience can help someone else. At the moment, I'm relatively content. I had another lung exacerbation recently, with coughing and shortness of breath, but that's getting better now. I'm getting out and getting things done finally, and getting back to my regular life, or what passes for a regular life for me. Talk to everyone later!
 
You might want to look into a shortish course of gabapentin or baclofen to help you stabilize back on the buprenorphine. It's good to save this stuff for using it to come off buprenorphine, but as long as you don't use it for too long term gabapentin is great to have around when tapering/getting off buprenorphine prior to acute withdrawal.

Are you trying to cut out the kratom and just stabilize on the medications or do you have other plans?

That's awesome you were able to get your diagnosis changed. Have you ever thought about other forms of treatment like acupuncture to help manage your condition(s)?
 
-the problem has been solved, I've decided now [to stay on subs]. He's also changing my diagnosis from addiction to pain, so that if something should happen to him, I only have to find a doctor who will prescribe it for pain, and any doctor CAN do that. ...I do intend to stay on it the rest of my life, however long that is. It's just not worth going through the withdrawals, the insomnia, restless legs, back pain, etc., that comes from getting off it. Whether it was withdrawal or if it's just that I've been on opiates of some kind for so many years that it's abnormal for me to be without them, it really doesn't matter.

I'm happy you are no longer burdened with the uncertainty around your bupe treatment protocol, including the provider. I think your course of action is very reasonable. So is your doctor. I am on the fence about remaining on bupe indefinitely. In part due to avoiding what I'm sure will be weeks of living life with little to no energy at best, y'all know the worst. The other reason is that bupe, when taken at a level that is therapeutic for me, does a good job of reducing my cravings for heroin not to mention blocking the effect if I should decide to capitulate. At 61 years of age, retired from a rather high-profile position in the community, family man, etc. cold copping in the hood comes with certain risks that were not in play for me 35 or so years ago. With that said, the rush inherent in the chase is almost as addicting as the substance itself. Do they have medication for that?

Best of luck LopLover. Keep in touch.
 
I used kratom to get off dilaudid and oxy. I thought I was dying to be honest. I was down to breaking the pills into quarters to stave off withdrawal and at the same time on the web looking for solutions. Discovered kratom, and ordered some. The day it arrived I was down to my last half pill and crashing hard. Mixed some up and drank it. Within 20 mins the Wd was gone and I felt great. I used it for about a week and a half longer and I was free from opiates. I still use it a few times a week and if I miss days it doesn't matter since I cycle on and off.

Kratom literally saved my life. No joke.
 
That is a really useful way to use kratom!

At 61 years of age, retired from a rather high-profile position in the community, family man, etc. cold copping in the hood comes with certain risks that were not in play for me 35 or so years ago. With that said, the rush inherent in the chase is almost as addicting as the substance itself. Do they have medication for that?

It is called DMT ;) the only adrenaline rush you’ll ever need. I know what you mean when you say how much you can get off from copping, with all the risk involved in being an established professional or having a public image. Stuff like DMT, iboga, DXM, etc definitely made me see the bigger picture more clearly when I’d start craving and fantacizing about copping. It is very interested how it works.
 
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