Suboxone or Kratom for getting of opiates

[DeathIndustrial88]

Also some states will not sell it. The FDA has been trying to make it illegal for the past couple years. Spreading rumors and lies about people overdosing on it. Yes absolutely they overdosed on the Kratom that came from China that was mixed with who the hell knows what.

I agree 100%. Methadone and Suboxone are supposed to be use to get you off of opiates. Not maintain your addiction.

It all starts when you decide that you want to stop using opiates. You have to have the just don’t pick it up attitude.

I’m an addict and I always will be. There’s good days and bad days. I’ve always used other types of “medication”my entire life. At 47 I’m ready to try something different.

Actually they are suppose to be used to maintain your addiction (or your dependence rather). Which is why it's called "Maintenance"

I've been on bupe for over 5 years. I'd still use heroin in a heart beat if I could find any.

Getting off of subs/methadone is no joke. Subs & methadone ARE opioids. lol They are meant to maintain your addiction so that you can be stable & function & not have to live the hustle on the street to score. Yes they can be used to get people off of other opioids too. but honestly if you want off opioids 100 percent, then I would just taper from the opioid you're using or use comfort meds.

It's something to consider if you really don't want anything to do with opioids anymore. Because maintenance is usually a years-long to life long thing, not really a magic fix to get you off of street drugs.

IME doctors will put you on high doses of maintenance opioids & leave you there for as long as possible. Then you'll just end up with a new dependence, but at least you'll be stable & have a safe supply of an opioid. But this is a big decision to make & if you don't want opioids in your life AT ALL, then going the maintenance route might not be the greatest idea. Unless you feel you're going to need help with cravings & such in the future, then maintenance opioids can help.

 

[Nas47]

Interesting you say that as I like that combo as well. Kratom has to do it for me now as it's the only drug I can take ( besides weed ) .

White Thai's also mix well with Bali.....wish they would rename the sleepy red ones. The tree doesn't grow there and I'm not even sure Bali still exports Indonesian kratom.

No i think this just a trade name for Borneo strain.As I know in Bali don't exist some significant number Kratom trees from a long time.

 

[Duke Nukem]

I was wondering the exact same.thing wether I should use subs or krstom to help get me off a 1 year+ IV Dilaudid habit. I've tried subs a few times and remember taking a 2mg pill when I had zero tolerance to anything so it rocked my world real hard super pinned for hours and threw up (which surprisingly felt pretty good some how) then a couple more times after that so I figure it's quite strong stuff. Those days I had only ever tried codeine and had a habit going for a couple years but got clean eventually. Also was into kratom for a while when I was off codeine duringt the codeine days, this one time as well sort of like the sub story lowish tolerance being so intelligent and always thinking things through I had decided to take a fucking massive tablespoon twice of what I assume to be quality red stuff and I was absolutely sent into space but felt really nasty sick but couldn't vomit so that sucked but what I learned is that Kratom can be some pretty damn strong shit if you don't get low quality garbage of course... I have a good supply of Kratom and about 40x 8mg subs but still haven decided which will be the better choice. Either way you go good luck to you OP and be thankful you aren't in the needle business or needing to deal detoxing another drug first before I can start tackling the dillies

Ive tried to find the answer to this but to no avail: can you mix Kratom with sub pills or no since Kratom binds to the opiate receptors?

 

[Nas47]

No point of mixin'subsbwith kratom.Try one or another....but better start with Kratom.I am really sorry,that the herb is illegal.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I was wondering the exact same.thing wether I should use subs or krstom to help get me off a 1 year+ IV Dilaudid habit. I've tried subs a few times and remember taking a 2mg pill when I had zero tolerance to anything at the time and it rocked me real hard was pinned for hours and threw up (which surprisingly felt pretty good some how) and then a couple more times after that so I figure it's quite strong stuff. At that time I had only ever tried codeine and had a habit of that for a couple years but got clean eventually. Also was into kratom for a while when I was off codeine during my codeine days, and I remember a time as well sort of like the sub story and I had taken a fucking massive tablespoon twice of what I assume to be quality red stuff and I was absolutely sent into space but felt really nasty sick but couldn't vomit so that sucked but what I learned is that Kratom can be some pretty damn strong shit if you don't get low quality garbage of course... I have a good supply of Kratom and about 40x 8mg subs but still haven decided which will be the better choice. Either way you go good luck to you OP and be thankful you aren't in the needle business or needing to deal detoxing another drug first before I can start tackling the dillies

Ive tried to find the answer to this but to no avail: can you mix Kratom with sub pills or no since Kratom binds to the opiate receptors?

You could probably mix them if your dose of subs if very low. Subs will probably block the mu receptor, but it might allow the kratom to attach to the delta receptor & cause some effect. I have done it but I'd say the effect really isn't worth it.


My advice to anyone looking to get OFF of opioids, is taper the one you normally use or go with kratom.
Suboxone may seem like nothing, but when you decide to be done with that, you could be looking at a withdrawal syndrome that's going to last 3x (maybe months) longer than the original opioid you were using. So IMO the maintenance opioids are for people who know they can't stop using opioids or need them to function. I don't wanna sound like I'm gate keeping, but it really is a huge decision. And most people who want to be done with opioids altogether go on subs or whatever thinking it'll cure them only to find out that hey, they're actually still dependent on opioids anyway.


Best of luck to everyone.
I chose maintenance because I had been using opioids for about 12 years at the time & knew that I wasn't gonna be able to function or deal with not having them. They also help my depression better than psychiatric medicines. So I don't mind still being dependent on an opioid. But for those of you who want OFF of opioids and don't want any dependence on them at all should really think twice before getting on subs or methadone, because once you do, you could be dependent for life.

 

[Duke Nukem]

You could probably mix them if your dose of subs if very low. Subs will probably block the mu receptor, but it might allow the kratom to attach to the delta receptor & cause some effect. I have done it but I'd say the effect really isn't worth it.


My advice to anyone looking to get OFF of opioids, is taper the one you normally use or go with kratom.
Suboxone may seem like nothing, but when you decide to be done with that, you could be looking at a withdrawal syndrome that's going to last 3x (maybe months) longer than the original opioid you were using. So IMO the maintenance opioids are for people who know they can't stop using opioids or need them to function. I don't wanna sound like I'm gate keeping, but it really is a huge decision. And most people who want to be done with opioids altogether go on subs or whatever thinking it'll cure them only to find out that hey, they're actually still dependent on opioids anyway.


Best of luck to everyone.
I chose maintenance because I had been using opioids for about 12 years at the time & knew that I wasn't gonna be able to function or deal with not having them. They also help my depression better than psychiatric medicines. So I don't mind still being dependent on an opioid. But for those of you who want OFF of opioids and don't want any dependence on them at all should really think twice before getting on subs or methadone, because once you do, you could be dependent for life.

This was my thinking too, and why I'm very hesitant to use any subs by themselves or mixed with Kratom because I worry that I would be just trading one evil for another. I completely understand why others would decide to take them and for long-term ,I get that, but because I have been using only for over 1 year that's not too long and I know I can and want to live without any opiate usage because I did before and was the happiest I've been. My best bet is to taper the Dilaudid IV then switch to oral taper that down then switch to Kratom and take care of that eventually which is child play compared to any IV opiate.

 

[jasperkent]

At different times over the years I've used methadone, buprenorphine, and kratom.

My choice is kratom 100% if you can get it. My second choice would be methadone, but beware-- if you're cut off, the WDs last at least a month. It's rough.

 

[VerbalTruist]

W

Well, if you want OFF opiates, getting onto a highly potent one like buprenorphine might help for a few days, but then you'll be dependent on the buprenorphine.



I would try kratom as well. Maintenance opioids are incredibly potent & long acting. They produce longer withdrawal syndromes than the illicit opioids.
I personally feel like maintenance is for people who aren't ready to be off opioids & need them to function long term.

Otherwise, if you want off of opiates, getting on potent, longer acting ones is some what counterproductive, unless you plan to do a rapid taper or stay on it long term.

Then you’ll be dependent on kratom. Which can also suck. This person is coming off of god knows what. There’s all kinds of fent&fent analogs in m30s.

 

[Nas47]

If Kratom was legal here&could find good quality for reasonable price.....well let be hooked on it.No problemo....everyone is hooked on something-alc,drugs,tobaco,junk food,someone else,....everyone is a slave some kind

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I've never felt any kind of opioid-effects from any form or brand of kratom I've ever tried in the past 10 years. lol

So I'd imagine that some one going from fent/analogues probably isn't gonna find it very recreational or "warm" enough to wanna keep using anyway.

 

[RC-Lover123]

I've never felt any kind of opioid-effects from any form or brand of kratom I've ever tried in the past 10 years. lol

So I'd imagine that some one going from fent/analogues probably isn't gonna find it very recreational or "warm" enough to wanna keep using anyway.

If you've got an opioid tolerance, Kratom will most likely not produce much of an effect. However, if you don't have a tolerance, Kratom is actually a pretty nice, strong and somehow "whole" opioid. I liked Kratom a lot better than codeine, percocets, tilidine or tramadol. Kratom doesn't come close to my beloved poppy pods, though.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

If you've got an opioid tolerance, Kratom will most likely not produce much of an effect. However, if you don't have a tolerance, Kratom is actually a pretty nice, strong and somehow "whole" opioid. I liked Kratom a lot better than codeine, percocets, tilidine or tramadol. Kratom doesn't come close to my beloved poppy pods, though.

Yeah I've known this

I've tried kratom even without a tolerance and it still did not produce any true opioid effects for me whatsoever.
At best I've gotten a slight stimulating feel comparable to Yohimbe or other natural stimulants, but I've never nodded out or felt euphoric from kratom.


I did once actually back in 2012, but I have reason to believe that, that batch was spiked with O-desmethyltramadol, so of course it was enjoyable since it would've been a full agonist, im comparison to kratom's partial agonist activity. But I've never felt anything like that from kratom again, not even close.

 

[RC-Lover123]

Yeah I've known this

I've tried kratom even without a tolerance and it still did not produce any true opioid effects for me whatsoever.
At best I've gotten a slight stimulating feel comparable to Yohimbe or other natural stimulants, but I've never nodded out or felt euphoric from kratom.


I did once actually back in 2012, but I have reason to believe that, that batch was spiked with O-desmethyltramadol, so of course it was enjoyable since it would've been a full agonist, im comparison to kratom's partial agonist activity. But I've never felt anything like that from kratom again, not even close.

I think that Kratom affects people very differently. I have met quite a few people like you who took Kratom and got next to nothing out of it. When I got my first bag of Kratom, I took a heaped teaspoon of "Mindanao Green" and immediately fell in love with this substance. The high was surprisingly strong, very euphoric, warm but also energizing and without side effects such as itching everywhere (Codeine!!). A very typical opioid high with a bit of a speedy component. Whenever I took percocets, codeine or tilidine I felt the urge to drink booze on top of the opioid. With Kratom, the high was somehow more complete, no need to drink booze on top.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I think that Kratom affects people very differently. I have met quite a few people like you who took Kratom and got next to nothing out of it. When I got my first bag of Kratom, I took a heaped teaspoon of "Mindanao Green" and immediately fell in love with this substance. The high was surprisingly strong, very euphoric, warm but also energizing and without side effects such as itching everywhere (Codeine!!). A very typical opioid high with a bit of a speedy component. Whenever I took percocets, codeine or tilidine I felt the urge to drink booze on top of the opioid. With Kratom, the high was somehow more complete, no need to drink booze on top.

I'm glad it works for somebody out there!


Honestly, I wish it did do something for me, since I could easily buy it any time.
IME, it's much weaker than buprenorphine even, so I guess as long as I have access to bupe, then I don't necessarily need it.


I use to love tramadol, which a lot of people have compared kratom to, but kratom never did anything close to what tramadol use to be able to do for me.
Everyone is for sure different though.

 

[RC-Lover123]

I'm glad it works for somebody out there!


Honestly, I wish it did do something for me, since I could easily buy it any time.
IME, it's much weaker than buprenorphine even, so I guess as long as I have access to bupe, then I don't necessarily need it.


I use to love tramadol, which a lot of people have compared kratom to, but kratom never did anything close to what tramadol use to be able to do for me.
Everyone is for sure different though.

I have abused quite a bit of tramadol but for me, Kratom is a much, much better opioid than tramadol. I never got hooked on tramadol as the effects were rather subtle for me. Kratom got me hooked the first time I took it. After that first spoon of the green powder, I immediately ordered bulk amounts and used daily. I knew from the moment the effects hit my brain that Kratom and I would have a lasting relationship. Must be a genetic thing, maybe there is some kind of metabolism needed to process Kratom alkaloids. Similar to codeine non responders who cannot convert codeine to morphine in their liver.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I have abused quite a bit of tramadol but for me, Kratom is a much, much better opioid than tramadol. I never got hooked on tramadol as the effects were rather subtle for me. Kratom got me hooked the first time I took it. After that first spoon of the green powder, I immediately ordered bulk amounts and used daily. I knew from the moment the effects hit my brain that Kratom and I would have a lasting relationship. Must be a genetic thing, maybe there is some kind of metabolism needed to process Kratom alkaloids. Similar to codeine non responders who cannot convert codeine to morphine in their liver.

You might not have the right liver enzymes to turn tramadol into it's full agonist metabolite, O-desmethyltramadol.

So for those without the right enzymes, I'm sure kratom would feel stronger. Cause without the right liver enzyme, you'll only feel the parent compound (tramadol, which is a weak partial agonist).


I believe I had the right enzymes to metabolize tramadol for most of my 20's. Most caucasians I believe, lack this enzyme, but I must've had it.
Although the last time I had tramadol was when I was 33 and it didn't do anything at all strangely. So it's my belief that people's liver enzymes can change over time.

 

[RC-Lover123]

You might not have the right liver enzymes to turn tramadol into it's full agonist metabolite, O-desmethyltramadol.

So for those without the right enzymes, I'm sure kratom would feel stronger. Cause without the right liver enzyme, you'll only feel the parent compound (tramadol, which is a weak partial agonist).


I believe I had the right enzymes to metabolize tramadol for most of my 20's. Most caucasians I believe, lack this enzyme, but I must've had it.
Although the last time I had tramadol was when I was 33 and it didn't do anything at all strangely. So it's my belief that people's liver enzymes can change over time.

Yeah, O-desmethyltramadol is far stronger than tramadol itself. Could well be that I am not a good metabolizer. I was always tempted to order a few grams of that O-DSMT stuff but there were always quality issues with the material available in Europe. And why bother, when you've got access to highly potent, organic and cheap poppy pods full of natural morphine? Morphine is the real deal, no enzymes needed for that to work its magic. Shame it isn't more bioavailable when ingested orally, though.

All of that said, 800mg of Tramadol ER per day were good enough to keep me more or less functional when I didn't have my poppy pod powder with me (traveling by plane, for example), so it must be doing something for me. The feeling was really shitty compared to the morphine, though, felt very cold, synthetic and unpleasant. Also a bit speedy, couldn't eat much and slept really badly on 800mg of tramadol. I was always so happy when I was back home. 20g of the poppy powder immediately blasted the nasty Tramadol stuff away from my receptors so that I was instantly relieved from that unpleasant feeling.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Yeah, O-desmethyltramadol is far stronger than tramadol itself. Could well be that I am not a good metabolizer. I was always tempted to order a few grams of that O-DSMT stuff but there were always quality issues with the material available in Europe. And why bother, when you've got access to highly potent, organic and cheap poppy pods full of natural morphine? Morphine is the real deal, no enzymes needed for that to work its magic. Shame it isn't more bioavailable when ingested orally, though.

All of that said, 800mg of Tramadol ER per day were good enough to keep me more or less functional when I didn't have my poppy pod powder with me (traveling by plane, for example), so it must be doing something for me. The feeling was really shitty compared to the morphine, though, felt very cold, synthetic and unpleasant. Also a bit speedy, couldn't eat much and slept really badly on 800mg of tramadol. I was always so happy when I was back home. 20g of the poppy powder immediately blasted the nasty Tramadol stuff away from my receptors so that I was instantly relieved from that unpleasant feeling.

Yeah, tramadol has that weak SNRI component to it as well.
Some times I enjoyed the stimulation it gave me.
Some times it felt really dirty too. But overall it made me feel much better than buprenorphine does.

O-DSMT lacks that serotonin and SNRI effect, so I bet it's much more smooth & pleasant, although I've never tried it personally.
I think I took kratom spiked with O-DSMT once. It was one the very first times I tried kratom back in 2012 from an online vendor.
I drank the shit & I was pretty high honestly. Felt like a cross between hydrocodone & a light dose of trams, But the next several times I tried it years later, it didn't do anything at all. And these were times when I had no tolerance to anything. At most, kratom now only gives me that Yohimbe / Yerba Mate stimulating feeling, but never any euphoria or contentedness unfortunately.

Then one day I read about how online vendors were spiking their kratom around 2010-2013ish with O-DSMT because it wasn't illegal at that time.
But once O-DSMT became illegal, I noticed that kratom never did anything for me anymore. Can't say that's what mine was spiked with in 2012 for sure, but I do know that the kratom then gave me actual full agonist euphoria & effects, but I've tried it about 100 times since then and have never been able to recreate that experience I had with it in 2012.

I am gonna give some red bali another shot though just to see what happens. I won't get my hopes up though.

 

[HerbsQuit]

I have 5 strains of Kratom right now:
Red Bali, Red Sunda, Chocolate Bentuangie, White Elephant, Gold Bali

When i was on MTD and i tried the Red Sunda and Choco Ben, i didn't feel high at all. 2 capsules Red Sunda made me sleepy. 2 capsules choco bentu just gave me a warm feeling. I havent tried the other strains.

I woke up however next day with severe wd.

Im trying to quit MTD at the moment. Im on day 8 without it but assisted with 100mg codeine 4x a day, and benzo as needed.

My question is:
What will happen if i taper my codeine with kratom?
Is it safe taking them both?
Whats it feel like to take codeine with kratom?
How many days are u safe to take kratom without wd? Because it wont be funny if i have to get off Kratom with Codeine in the end when i am trying to get off Codeine