Bupe Suboxone can ruin your life

[DeathIndustrial88]

very true. usually attempts at doing self-therapy at home quickly turn into a ketamine addiction as you chase that depression-relief rabbit. Ketamine does not cure anything, it just gives you a brief window into what non-depressed life looks like. ketamine use runs substantial risks of making physical and mental health problems worse or inducing new ones (I started self-harming after Ketamine use, which I never even considered beforehand). It can be a literal life-saver for some people (especially in a clinical setting. albeit still not fully exempt from the aformentioned risks) but doing street ketamine by yourself, by and large will do more harm than good.
edit: also, dissos reset your opi tolerance? didn't do shit on that front for me quite frankly

I agree with you there.

I don't actually have much ketamine experience. But I've been on probably 10,000 DXM trips in my life.
I always had a nice afterglow for a day or two after a DXM trip. My pain levels were lower, my depression lower, etc..

But of course after a few days, you'll go back to feeling how originally felt (if you have a genuine depression disorder that is).

And yes, NMDA antagonism is known to reverse opioid tolerance & also prevent it. But it's probably very dose dependent & maybe dependent on the person. Any time I've used heroin, tramadol or buprenorphine after a good 400mg+ DXM trip, it definitely sets my tolerance back for a day or two & the opioid feels much stronger. However, if I did like a 300mg DXM trip, I'm not going to notice much tolerance resetting. So there must be a certain dosage window for that.

I've also read that taking at least 60mg of DXM with your opioid daily can prevent tolerance, but I've never been able to gag down DXM daily long enough to really test that out. Plus even 60mg of DXM can muck up my opioid effects.

Some people say it doesn't work for them but there is a ton of literature out there on the subject.

https://www.jpsmjournal.com/article/S0885-3924(99)00121-9/fulltext

Inhibition of morphine tolerance and dependence by the NMDA receptor antagonist MK-801 - PubMed

The N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) subtype of the glutamate receptor is an important mediator of several forms of neural and behavioral plasticity. The present studies examined whether NMDA receptors might be involved in the development of opiate tolerance and dependence, two examples of behavioral...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Attenuation of μ-Opioid Tolerance and Cross-Tolerance by the Competitive N-Methyl-d-aspartate Receptor Antagonist LY235959 Is Related to Tolerance and Cross-Tolerance Magnitude

Although NMDA receptor antagonists attenuate the development of morphine tolerance, it is not clear whether NMDA receptor antagonists also prevent tolerance and cross-tolerance to other μ-opioid agonists and, if so, whether prevention is related to the efficacy of the agonist used to examine...

jpet.aspetjournals.org

Opioid Tolerance Development: A Pharmacokinetic/Pharmacodynamic Perspective

The opioids are commonly used to treat acute and severe pain. Long-term opioid administration eventually reaches a dose ceiling that is attributable to the rapid onset of analgesic tolerance coupled with the slow development of tolerance to the untoward ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It's possible it only works on some opioids too & not others. I dunno, but I've noticed potentiation with basically any opioid if I use it right after a DXM trip or within the next 2 days after a heavy DXM trip.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Ketamine does not cure anything, it just gives you a brief window into what non-depressed life looks like. k

That's what antidepressant and antidepressant treatments should do. During that non-depressed window is when curing depression is possible.
In about same way psychedelics and dissos can cure addiction.

 

[Hexenstahl]

@Aqlis
@DeathIndustrial88
DI88 is right about that tolerance thing. I tried out the 60mg protocol and even though I didn't find it as good as ULDN it did its job. Btw guys, if I'm not mistaken you can order Dextromethorphan-Hydrobromide powder from the chemical supplier Sigma Aldrich. It's cheaper than buying DXM as an antitussive pill from the pharmacy.

 

[gordonliddy]

Yes he obviously has some mental issues going on. The funny thing is that hasn't even adressed any of my points. If he thinks I'm talking "stupid shit" then why not say what exactly is stupid about it and let's have a constructive disussion about it.


He hasn't said anything but ad hominem. That's the thing.

On most forums trolls silence a certain kind of idiocracy. When idiocracy rears it's ugly head, it falls to trolls to shout the idiots down. Surely you remember 2016 Comrade Hexenstahl, for it was trolls that blocked Hillary's election?

What would justify trolling, then? How about if one of our members started circulating false claims that dangerous drugs were instead safe, and encouarged people to try them.

Opiods don't fight depression. If opiods are treating some malady that you have, then what you suffer from is not depression.

Can I believe that regulatory capture has happened to the extent that doctors are now lying and claiming that opiods fight depression? Post COVID I suppose anything is possible.

I have sore joints so I'm going to do yoga. Yoga cures arthritis.
Let's meet back here in six months, shall we? I won't have arthritis anymore, but you'll still have depression. Because opiods don't treat depression. So if that's what you're using you'll still be depressed. Not much of a cure, I'm afraid.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

LOL

Imagine waking up & thinking "today I'm gonna go out & tell people that their experiences are invalid & they're just making excuses to use drugs".

Imagine saying that to a person on blood pressure meds, on SSRIs, on diabetes medication.

You clearly don't know jack shit.

Oh look, opioids being used as antidepressants...

Buprenorphine as a Treatment for Major Depression and Opioid Use Disorder

Rates of major depressive disorder (MDD) are disproportionally high in subjects with opioid use disorder (OUD) relative to the general population. MDD is often more severe in OUD patients, leading to compliance issues with maintenance therapies and poor outcomes. A growing body of literature...

www.frontierspartnerships.org

" Historically, MOR agonists have also been applied in the treatment of mood disorders, notably including major depressive disorder (MDD). Indeed, until the mid-20th century, low doses of opium itself were used to treat depression, and the so called “opium cure” was purportedly quite effective.9 With the advent of tricyclic antidepressants (TCAs) in the 1950s however, the psychiatric use of opioids rapidly fell out of favor and has been largely dormant since, likely due to negative medical and societal perceptions stemming from their abuse potential. However, there have been scattered clinical reports (both case studies and small controlled trials) since the 1970s indicating the effectiveness of MOR agonists in treating depression. The endogenous opioid peptide β-endorphin, as well as a number of small molecules, have all been reported to rapidly and robustly improve the symptoms of MDD and/or anxiety disorders in the clinical setting, even in treatment resistant patients.10–17 These results have been recapitulated in rodent models, where a variety of MOR agonists show antidepressant effects.18–21 "

Synthetic and Receptor Signaling Explorations of the Mitragyna Alkaloids: Mitragynine as an Atypical Molecular Framework for Opioid Receptor Modulators

Mu-opioid receptor agonists represent mainstays of pain management. However, the therapeutic use of these agents is associated with serious side effects, including potentially lethal respiratory depression. Accordingly, there is a longstanding interest ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Stop coming here to spread misinformation dude. Your opinions are not rooted in any scientific fact.

Btw, doctors have always known that opioids fight depression. Opioids are not "new drugs".

You clearly don't know what depression is, either. REAL depression is a chronic, ongoing, usually life long problem. There are no "cures" for it.
There are only meds that treat the symptoms. And humans should have a right to say what goes into their body.



@Hexenstahl !! I'm glad the DXM helped for you slightly! If you ever get the urge for a total mindfuck, a higher dose could give you a better tolerance reduction. But those higher doses can provoke a lot of side effects. I know I've told you about the many times I've felt like I was gonna die on 600+mg trips of DXM. lol But it can be worth it some times. I think a lot of people expect that you're going to go back to being some kind of opioid virgin too when I say 'tolerance reset', but it's more like just making your opioid feel a little stronger (maybe even more euphoric) for a day or two after the trip. Doesn't take long for your tolerance to sky rocketed right back up, which is what makes it less viable than something like ULDN honestly.

 

[Hexenstahl]

Imagine waking up & thinking "today I'm gonna go out & tell people that their experiences are invalid & they're just making excuses to use drugs".

Imagine saying that to a person on blood pressure meds, on SSRIs, on diabetes medication.

You clearly don't know jack shit.

Oh look, opioids being used as antidepressants...

Buprenorphine as a Treatment for Major Depression and Opioid Use Disorder

Rates of major depressive disorder (MDD) are disproportionally high in subjects with opioid use disorder (OUD) relative to the general population. MDD is often more severe in OUD patients, leading to compliance issues with maintenance therapies and poor outcomes. A growing body of literature...

www.frontierspartnerships.org

" Historically, MOR agonists have also been applied in the treatment of mood disorders, notably including major depressive disorder (MDD). Indeed, until the mid-20th century, low doses of opium itself were used to treat depression, and the so called “opium cure” was purportedly quite effective.9 With the advent of tricyclic antidepressants (TCAs) in the 1950s however, the psychiatric use of opioids rapidly fell out of favor and has been largely dormant since, likely due to negative medical and societal perceptions stemming from their abuse potential. However, there have been scattered clinical reports (both case studies and small controlled trials) since the 1970s indicating the effectiveness of MOR agonists in treating depression. The endogenous opioid peptide β-endorphin, as well as a number of small molecules, have all been reported to rapidly and robustly improve the symptoms of MDD and/or anxiety disorders in the clinical setting, even in treatment resistant patients.10–17 These results have been recapitulated in rodent models, where a variety of MOR agonists show antidepressant effects.18–21 "

Synthetic and Receptor Signaling Explorations of the Mitragyna Alkaloids: Mitragynine as an Atypical Molecular Framework for Opioid Receptor Modulators

Mu-opioid receptor agonists represent mainstays of pain management. However, the therapeutic use of these agents is associated with serious side effects, including potentially lethal respiratory depression. Accordingly, there is a longstanding interest ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Stop coming here to spread misinformation dude

WOW! I was looking for something like this to use in my argument but haven't been able to find it. That's really fascinating! I will definitely read it when I have time!

 

[someguyontheinternet]

On most forums trolls silence a certain kind of idiocracy. When idiocracy rears it's ugly head, it falls to trolls to shout the idiots down. Surely you remember 2016 Comrade Hexenstahl, for it was trolls that blocked Hillary's election?

What would justify trolling, then? How about if one of our members started circulating false claims that dangerous drugs were instead safe, and encouarged people to try them.

Opiods don't fight depression. If opiods are treating some malady that you have, then what you suffer from is not depression.

Can I believe that regulatory capture has happened to the extent that doctors are now lying and claiming that opiods fight depression? Post COVID I suppose anything is possible.

I have sore joints so I'm going to do yoga. Yoga cures arthritis.
Let's meet back here in six months, shall we? I won't have arthritis anymore, but you'll still have depression. Because opiods don't treat depression. So if that's what you're using you'll still be depressed. Not much of a cure, I'm afraid.

Opioids are definitely useful in treating depression, there are currently kappa antagonists being researched for this very purpose

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

WOW! I was looking for something like this to use in my argument but haven't been able to find it. That's really fascinating! I will definitely read it when I have time!

It's a great read!

Found it awhile back & saved it. You know how hard it is trying to find anything about opioids being used for psychiatry back in the day. Even though it's a fact & there use to be widespread information about it on google. Not anymore though.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

How about if one of our members started circulating false claims that dangerous drugs were instead safe

Pharmaceutically pure opiates ARE safe. The main danger with them is overdose and adverse effects of adulterants and bacteria. Both of these risk factors disappear when you have an uncontaminated product of consistent potency that can be dosed accurately.

and encouarged people to try them.

Haven't exactly seen her tell everyone to go and do opiates.

Opiods don't fight depression.

They do, but with caveats. Not every type of patient is suitable. I have here right in front of me some historical medical journals from the time when this was common medical practice, and yes there was a debate about the efficacy and contraindications at the time. I'll quote :


"Several hundred patients suffering from the depressed stage of manic depressive insanity were given large doses of opium orally, in many instances for periods of up to a year. Not one of these patients ever knew what drug he was taking or gave evidence of a desire to continue its use."

" Opium is indispensable in dealing with the fear states of the melancholic individual. But here we make the surprising discovery that the continued administration of opium, in the form of opium tincture, during the melancholic mental disturbances does not produce drug addiction. That is, it does not, PROVIDED the dosage is adapted to the diseased mental state of the patient and provided that the doctor is careful to withdraw the drug at the correct time, as soon as he notes a decrease in the fear, tension or excitement of the patient. " - Dr. Paul Wolff

"... but also ONLY in endogenous, that is in simple periodic melancholy arising from a constitutional basis. Warning must be issued against the administration of opiate preparations in cases of reactive depression. In these cases, it leads with especial ease to the development of addiction. "
- Dr. Emil Bratz

" Opium is indispensable in many cases of endogenous depressions. The prescription of opiates for states of depression is unobjectionable also because we know from experience that the depressed persons feel no need for narcotics when the depression has passed away, and practically never become addicts. " - Prof. Karl Bonhoeffer

They don't like to be called what they are. Don't like to be reminded what they're doing

I personally never had a problem with that, and I knew exactly what I wss doing and furthermore am entirely unapologetic about it.

They will go to any length to defend their use. They steal. They lie.

Hmmm I love me a bit of that good ole' blanket generalisation. Many do, yes. By no means all. Nor is such behaviour limited to only users of this particular class of drugs.

And if they don't get it every day they get dangerously ill.

Very unpleasantly ill. Not dangerously so, unless you suffer from serious health issues like a heart condition or seizure disorder.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Opioids are definitely useful in treating depression, there are currently kappa antagonists being researched for this very purpose

I saw over the weekend that they approved Samidorphan here in the US.

It's basically buprenorphine with an antagonist that blocks it's mu effects but keeps the kappa effects.
I thought it failed the clinical trial awhile back.

Tho I'm skeptical about it. Because while kappa antagonism might give some stress relief & block dynorphins, I think a lot of the antidepressant effect of bupe comes from it's partial mu-agonism (which is why almost all opioids have some degree of antidepressant effect). So I think it's stupid that they're blocking the mu agonism. But the commercial also mentioned withdrawal & I was wondering how some one would withdrawal from a kappa antagonist & what it would be like.

That's my main worry though with opioids is that if they did say "well yeah they do help depression", instead of letting people have things like morphine, tramadol, heroin or whatever, these pharma companies would prolly try creating some bullshit franken-opioids that cause dependence but block all the good effects. Just to capitalize on human suffering, but doing it in a way that doesn't look like they're just pushing drugs.



EDIT : - I was wrong actually. I think Samidorphan is just an antagonist by itself & this new medicine that's out is an opioid antagonist + an antipsychotic. Very strange combination. I'd imagine it'd feel awful honestly. lol I don't know what it is with them pushing antipsychotics for depression. Antipsychotics tend to bring you down & lower dopamine & the last thing a person with depression needs is lower dopamine. I don't get their reasoning for making this combo. But here it talks about using it for Schizophrenia. Interesting that they would make something like this. There was a buprenorphine/samidorphan drug in clinical trials awhile back though. I think that's what I was originally thinking of.

Samidorphan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Hexenstahl]

circulating false claims

Multiple BL members (DI88 and someguyontheinternet) including me have already given you scientific sources that completely debunk your false claim nonsense and you still insist on it. You sir are a very special kind of ignoramous I haven't seen in a looong time.

I won't have arthritis anymore, but you'll still have depression. Because opiods don't treat depression

Repetition doesn't make a false claim true. Write that behind your ears, or better yet, tattoo it.
Opioids DO treat depression, not only has that been proven by scientific literature (look what DI88 and someguyontheinternet have written) like Opioids in mental illness, published by the new york academy of sciences, but I MYSELF am a living example of its efficacy. I have earlier told my story about how opioids have literally prevented me from carrying out my suicide attempt.

When idiocracy rears it's ugly head, it falls to trolls to shout the idiots down

Thank you for publicly admitting that you are a troll. Case closed lol...

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Many NSAID & paracetamol are shown to help with depression. I think they might also potentate AD effect of opiates and vice versa.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Cannabis & opioids have prevented me from offing myself more times than I can count.

Those are absolutely vital tools for some one with severe depression to have on hand.

Some people can end up more depressed on opioids, especially if they're having to go through periods of withdrawal.
Rotating opioids can help negate a lot of that & also constant, legal & safe access to a variety of opioid choices.

I wouldn't be here today if it weren't for opioids, 100%. Probably would have flipped a car (another one) while drunk or OD'ed on cough medicine/alcohol & meth or some shit.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

Some people can end up more depressed on opioids,

Yes, especially with long-term excessive use, because it does downregulate your natural dopamine levels; plus in men leads to lowered testosterone which also has an effect on mood.

I wouldn't be here today if it weren't for opioids, 100%.

SAME.

 

[FatBellyWhipSlay]

I agree, its ruined my life and thats a fact. I think its a great tool to get someone off hardcore opiaites but thats it

it should not be used long term, there should a mix of therapy that uses bupe and then wean off it after maximum 12 months, MAXIMUM if after a year your not ready then you havent addressed your addiction issues at all, "oh its like insulin" BS absolute BS

I was on it for 4 years and its destroyed me trying to come off it, just as much as H or pills and I am paying for it now with other issues and it does NOTHING for pain even at 16mg a day

 

[Hexenstahl]

@DeathIndustrial88
I really wish I wouldn't react so badly to cannabis. I often end up with paranoia and anxiety which totally ruins the high. But at least I can take RSO in a therapeutic way. Nothing better exists to kill cancer cells than some good old full spectrum cannabinoid oil.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

@DeathIndustrial88
I really wish I wouldn't react so badly to cannabis. I often end up with paranoia and anxiety which totally ruins the high. But at least I can take RSO in a therapeutic way. Nothing better exists to kill cancer cells than some good old full spectrum cannabinoid oil.

Honestly, I've always gotten anxiety & paranoia from weed.

I remember being 12-14 years old & smoking with my brother & his friends & I'd be sitting there tripping balls from it & wondering how they were all acting normal & seemed fine. lol For some odd reason though, I continued to keep using it every day, despite the anxiety.

Some times it would get rid of my anxiety too. But I've found when it comes to THC, having a tolerance is a must.
If my tolerance is low, weed will give me anxiety & what not. But if I consistently smoke it, especially a nice wake & bake, it's less anxiogenic & more pleasant & chill.

It's also amazing for potentiating opioids. I can take an opioid & not be feeling anything from it but then I'll smoke a bowl & literally have the nods. lol

A nice indica, lower thc strain might work well with you. I've smoked some indicas that mostly consisted of a nice body buzz & no mental anxiety or trippiness. Although they say whether a strain is sativa or indica doesn't always matter, which is true cause I've also had indicas that fucked me up both mentally & gave me couch lock. lol So it's incredibly variable.

There's also delta 8 thc, which is like a shorter acting & much more mild version of regular thc. It's completely legal here everywhere & I had to smoke that for about 2 years after I moved & lost all my connects. It does help potentiate but the buzz is weak stuff compared to regular delta 9 thc.

 

[vlzinspace]

I could have sworn she gets her drugs from a doctor


I've seen him in multiple threads now always flying off the handle using personal insults. It isn't you

Putting people in their place is not flying off the handle. But promoting a class of drugs that do nothing but kill and all Hexens been doing is posting things left and right like a know it all, including promoting opioids.

The promotion of opioids set me off. I got dead friends in the double digits from that singular class of drugs alone.

 

[vlzinspace]

Dissos & psychedelics can be good for depression...

But as some one who's had experience with both, the antidepressant effect from those two classes only tends to last either during the experience or for a few days or a week tops afterward. No amount of tripping has ever "cured" my depression permanently & it's unlikely it ever will.


The irony too, of some one saying opioids are dangerous while also saying people should do street ketamine to treat their own depression. L M F A O


Most ketamine treatment has to be done through a clinic & you have to be monitored while you're tripping & then you have to sit there & wait awhile & then have some one else drive you home afterward. So just more stupid ass barriers to people getting depression treatments legally.


The only thing dissos are good for now is helping to reset my opioid tolerance

Nobody said street ketamine either. Yall are lost af. Good luck

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

Depends on the opioid.

The reason I mentioned this is because depression in schizophrenia operates by different neurochemical processes than 'classic' depression resulting from either unipolar or bipolar disorder. Therefore requires different treatments.