Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine Mega Thread and FAQ v17.0 + v18.0

[BlueHues]

There's mu receptors in the gut as well as the brain. When taken orally, naloxone doesn't cross the BBB but can still cause other unpleasant symptoms in some people. However, a lot of the unpleasant side effects people report while taking Suboxone, are endemic to buprenorphine itself.

Subutex doesn't get you any "higher" than Suboxone, and most people don't notice any difference, regardless of ROA....but the reason naloxone was added in the first place was to deter IV abuse.

 

[kace]

I managed to convince them to give me subutex. I wish my doctor prescribed Zubsolv! I had the appointment early, went back at 3pm (as I wasn't in wds) to finalise the treatment program. Then went home (still not in wds) to drop off a heavy load of shopping.
I don't remember actually coming home, or getting into bed! I intended to go to the script at 5pm to get the subutex.. But I just sort of woke up in bed, bollocks!
I guess it was a good thing as although my stomach is still queasy, I'm not going from the sweats, chiills. Just yawning lots, tears and a weird stomach. Now I have to wait till at least 9am to get the script. :/ I wish so badly I had slept Thursday/Friday so I didn't pass out. I'm dreading how bad it will be once I wake up! I need the energy to cycle along way to the pharmacy..

TLDR: I am a twat and missed my first subutex script!

 

[BlueHues]

^It will probably work out for the better...I always have a hard time getting on bupe these last few years...

I don't notice any difference from one to the next when it comes to buprenorphine, and I've had Subutex, Buprenex ampoules and suboxone. Zubsolv may dissolve quicker, but it's still buprenorphine, a very mediocre partial agonist that works well for detox and maintenance.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Zubsolv may dissolve quicker, but it's still buprenorphine, a very mediocre partial agonist that works well for detox and maintenance.

This.

For people struggling with transitioning back to bupe.. they will have the same issue with Zubsolv as they did with anything else.

 

[PKPro]

Oh it really is pathetic especially as I was only addicted to codeine so never snorted or IVd n really, correct me if I'm wrong, the naloxone is to stop abuse of the drug?

Why does it matter? Yes that's why they say it's there. IMO it's just a bull excuse RB used to market suboxone over tex. bupe has higher affinity regardless of ROA ime.

I am wondering something though is subutex stronger than suboxone with it nnot including naloxone? Reason I'm asking is that a friend was put on subutex, I think 12mg (not sure) but this person told me they were completely tired out for 2 days sleeping etc - yet when I was put onto suboxone I just felt completely normal. I wasn't tired, zonked out, sick, high - nothing, just completely normal.
When I inducted I didn't take it all on one go, I took it throughout the day to stop PW. But I can't understand why my experience was so different unless it concerned the naloxone.
However, I've been told that naloxone isn't active unless I try to inject or whatever, so there are still a few things that confuse me.

But yea I think doctors are a bit strict with disallowing subutex in some cases.

Evey xxxx

If you want to get high off your maintenance meds then you're in treatment for the wrong reasons. You might as well go back to taking full agonists for that, though codeine wouldn't cut it anymore, (unless you're willing to take 5000+mg hahaha) you'd need something much stronger like IV dope. In terms of strength, Like I said above, the naloxone is inert.

 

[kace]

Fuck, I missed the first subutex picking up and now it's been about 36 hours. I'm so incredibly dopesick and can't make it the pharmacy. God damn.

 

[Eveleivibe]

Fuck, I missed the first subutex picking up and now it's been about 36 hours. I'm so incredibly dopesick and can't make it the pharmacy. God damn.

Oh no... sorry to hear that... hope you get your subutex soon n feel better xxxx

KPRro of course I don't want to get high... that would be counter-productive. I've just been experiencing symptoms which may be caused by the naloxone is all. And I was just questioning whether one was stronger than the other (whether the naloxone affected strength in any way) because a friend's experience of first few days, was very much different to mine (as stated above). So I was simply asking if anyone had, had any experience of this.
But I can assure you getting high would be the LAST thing I would want to happen. I'd never get out of addiction if that happened. I feel normal, sometimes (a kind of nice feeling but not very often)

Evey xxxx

 

[BlueHues]

Fuck, I missed the first subutex picking up and now it's been about 36 hours. I'm so incredibly dopesick and can't make it the pharmacy. God damn.

;
That's the part a lot of people don't understand about being dependent on opiates: Your ability to function at all is almost completely gone when you're in WDs, it's not like you just "feel bad" and can fight through it! My muscles can't function properly, I feel like every joint in my body is severely arthritic...can't sit still but it's painful to move, freezing cold but sweating through my clothes like I just ran a marathon on a 90 degree day. It's a disgusting feeling...to be staring down the barrel of opiate withdrawal every day is to know true stress and anxiety...but I've pushed myself through some very difficult situations sick before...almost feel like the Terminator when he's just a torso dragging himself across the floor with his elbows or whatever...

Drag yourself to get the script...Good News: It will probably instantly make you feel better at this point, but remember that you're still always only a few days away from feeling that way again! That's my motivation for wanting to get off this stuff, but I'm grateful that I can take my time...

 

[PKPro]

And I was just questioning whether one was stronger than the other (whether the naloxone affected strength in any way) because a friend's experience of first few days, was very much different to mine (as stated above). So I was simply asking if anyone had, had any experience of this.

Like I said, there's no discernible difference. Unless you're allergic to naloxone (which you aren't). I've banged plenty of suboxone and zubsolv. Naloxone might as well have not even been there as far as I was concerned.

 

[kace]

Thanks for your replies guys. I left it far too late, I was vomiting, sweating like a beast, freezing cold and boiling hot, and lets just say had really bad stomach issues. I was hoping it would magically ease off.. I tried phoning this place called the 'crisis team' to get help me get there, but they said they couldn't and I should phone for an ambulance. (Like that would help!!) I was just way too weak and shit to cycle to the town to get it 40ish hours without anything.

I hate to say it, but my partner offered to help and smoke me up so I could make it there. It helped significantly, I was out of the wds but then had to face having a supervised script at the pharmacy just an hour after smoking it. I managed to distract the guy, put two in my pocket and spat the other one out. I have them and tomorrows now at home. Thank god!
I know it's wrong what I did, but now I can get myself into opiate withdrawals and then use the subutex. I'm so happy I managed to get the script for today and tomorrow! I hope it goes okay. Can't wait to be free of heroin, then I can work on getting my life back.

Take care everyone and thanks a lot for your help.

 

[Eveleivibe]

Like I said, there's no discernible difference. Unless you're allergic to naloxone (which you aren't). I've banged plenty of suboxone and zubsolv. Naloxone might as well have not even been there as far as I was concerned.

Thanks for your responses, PKPro. Yea I'm definitely not allergic to naloxone as I would have known by now.
But was nice of you to respond to me. Much appreciated. Have a good day xxxx

 

[StealYourFace]

Subs are a godsend.

I've been lucky enough to have a stash for a while for when I run out of my doc (percs, droz, opanas typically 60-100mg/day droz or perks or 15-20mg/day ops).

The other day I was kicking like a mule, that first dose and 10 min later, 90% relief, just amazing really.

Recently due to a dry spell, I have had a couple extended periods on subs. The first few days I feel kind of headachy and depressed (1mg/day is enough to hold me) but by the 3rd or 4th day I feel like a champion. Lots of energy (I have an Adderall rx too thank god) clear headed and interested in having sex again lol. Plus I am sharper at work (I'm a sales manager for a large local company).

Because of this, I think I am going to stay on subs for the next few months because I am training for another marathon. I just have so much more energy, less depressed and more clear headed. Once I get to the 2 week mark on subs, like .5-.75 mg is enough with careful prep... a razor blade to cut a precise amount, and rinsing my mouth out real well with alcohol based mouth wash for a ready surface. My running is so much better on subs for some reason. I did 12 miles today and felt great through the whole thing.

Here's my problem: I have either ra or psoriatic arthritis.... The reason I continue running/exercising is because if I don't my whole body is as stiff as a sheet of drywall. I take alieve and ibeprophin (because I be hurtin lol... Ibe-profin) and booze is a nice supplement for that. I'm in my mid 30's, I'm too young for this bs.

So I get done with a day at work, then my training run, my body hurts like hell, so I wind up drinking 4 or 5 vodka tonics. The booze hits me harder too now that I'm on subs regular opis. But the pain in my body is brutal, my hands, feet especially. Most nights it wakes me up.

As far as working out goes... if I don't the next day I really feel like hell. When I'm with hydroz or percs, I'm 80% pain free.

What to do? Which is the lesser evil? I know I'm effed and I will always be on something...

 

[KatAch]

Thanks. I'm a bit over two months, and I'm feeling 75 to 80 % back to normal.

Still minor PAWS.

Still have PTSD symtpoms too which are worse than the PAWS to be quite honest.

Congrats on being 11 months clean ziggy, that's simply amazing!!!

Well done and keep going! Ive been off subs since last May. It seems to take ages to feel right again but at 2 months your definitely getting there So hard! All power to you!!

 

[Tommyboy]

Here's my problem: I have either ra or psoriatic arthritis.... The reason I continue running/exercising is because if I don't my whole body is as stiff as a sheet of drywall. I take alieve and ibeprophin (because I be hurtin lol... Ibe-profin) and booze is a nice supplement for that. I'm in my mid 30's, I'm too young for this bs.

So I get done with a day at work, then my training run, my body hurts like hell, so I wind up drinking 4 or 5 vodka tonics. The booze hits me harder too now that I'm on subs regular opis. But the pain in my body is brutal, my hands, feet especially. Most nights it wakes me up.

As far as working out goes... if I don't the next day I really feel like hell. When I'm with hydroz or percs, I'm 80% pain free.

What to do? Which is the lesser evil? I know I'm effed and I will always be on something...

Be careful with drinking because I've seen people and personally experienced turning to alcohol while on subs to fill the void left by the partial agonist effects of suboxone.

It's a bad combination in terms of your recovery, and it makes for a hell of a hangover due to the headaches that you can get from the suboxone alone.

Adding alcohol to the mix will leave you with two addictions, and depending on the frequency in which you use it may leave you dependent on both of them which is a way worse kick than either of the two on their own.

I think that one thing that you have on your side is the dose of suboxone that you are on. Considering that you were abusing hydrocodone and oxycodone at doses up to yet below 100mg it's good that you realized that you could stabilize on 1mg of suboxone, and even less after a few weeks. This will help tremendously when it comes time to wean off of it, in terms of both the mental and physical withdrawals, both acute and post-acute.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

^^

Yeah. The hardest I ever drank in my life, was a period I was stable on suboxone. 1-2 pints of bourbon a night. It's very easy to switch to the booze and get way out of control with it.

 

[BlueHues]

I have been drinking on Suboxone for the past year. I have overdone it at times, but now I usually drink about 6-10 ales 3-4 nights a week...Moderate drinking on Suboxone doesn't bother me at all, but I wouldn't recommend it...When I'm on a stable dose of Suboxone, I don't really notice it potentiating or changing the effects of most things...Benzos are a big exception there, and mixing those with Sub can be dangerous...but most other things, from a little amphetamine, weed or a little drinking, I don't even remember that I'm on Suboxone...It's like I have an opiate addiction "running in the background"...The only time I really know I'm even on anything is when it gets around time for me to have another dose..Then, I might feel a little anxious feeling and a little physically "jumpy"..Then I take more Sub, and go back to forgetting I'm even on it...

 

[RTrain]

It's a bad combination in terms of your recovery, and it makes for a hell of a hangover due to the headaches that you can get from the suboxone alone.
.

I very rarely got headaches from drinking before I got addicted to opiates. Now it is quite common, even mild headaches can cause an excruciating headache.

 

[Tommyboy]

Yeah. The hardest I ever drank in my life, was a period I was stable on suboxone. 1-2 pints of bourbon a night. It's very easy to switch to the booze and get way out of control with it.

Same here, but for me my DOC (drink of choice in this case) was 'Sparks' as alcohol energy drinks were becoming popular at that time and it was before all the regulations and bans came out on them.

In fact they were making them even stronger then, and when they came out with 'Sparks Plus' (in the black top can) which had a full percent of alcohol more than the original, I switched to that and never went back to the original. I even remember flipping out on the workers at the 7/11 I went to when they would run out of the Plus, since they knew I got that one all the time so should have always had it stocked.

I would get out of work and buy 3 of those at Sevs [7/11] and drink them all on the walk home which was short, but I took a few detours to drink them all undetected. I would get pretty bad since I was also scripted xanax back then, and my routine was so predictable that a girlfriend of mine called me up all concerned because she said that I would call her up every night like clockwork, and leave the same general voicemail saying how I was leaving for school in a few weeks and wanted to get everyone together for a party. Of course in my mind it was her fault for not answering my calls and letting it go to voicemail since the whole routine calling thing would not have been happening if she had just answered me from the start.

Between the suboxone pills and the Sparks I'm sure that my teeth would have turned at least a few shades orange if I hadn't been brushing them all the time during that phase. My friend used to drink those too and we used to joke about them having an intervention episode with someone addicted to Sparks who would get caught due to their mouth turning orange from them and everyone knowing they were drinking because of that.

 

[Zwanya]

My drinking decreased dramatically when I started subs. Drinks made me feel sick; I actually felt poisoned to a certain degree. But my cannabis intake blew up.

I've had a medicinal marijuana card for over 10 years now, and when I started suboxone I went crazy with it. Especially the high potency extracts, oils, waxes, and edibles. My exhusband and I grew herb at home so I rarely bought tree from the pot clubs, but I was there checking out the new product every single day after work, as if I were at a bar during happy hour.

I haven't had any cannabis in 355 days. I probably won't for a long time. But the combination of bupe+herb was perfect for this brain/body.

 

[BlueHues]

^Yeah Sparks and Tilt were both the forerunners to 4 Loko, which is the one that got alcoholic energy drinks banned...That shit will make you obnoxious drunk, that's for sure...I liked the grape 4 locos, but 2 cans and your an instant loudmouth asshole!