I got cotton fever from a hit. Then waited about 12 hours and snorted some suboxone. Got precipitated withdrawal. Thinking that if i IV'd some it would end quicker i did, and i was wrong. The strange thing is, i never began to feel better after. Usually precip withdrawal only lasts an hour but mine hasn't gone away. It is about 36 hours after that and my pupils are still big as saucers and my body hair standing up. I have taken 8mg already today and i think that i only feel slightly better. WHATS UP? Why will it not begin to work?
Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine Mega Thread and FAQ v17.0 + v18.0
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fullycaffeinated
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It's not the naloxone that causes PWDs, it's the bupe itself... It binds to the receptors more strongly, but doesn't fully agonize them. When you have h (I'm assuming) on your receptors still, and then take bupe, the bupe rips the h off, but since it doesn't activate the receptors as much, you experience an instant drop in opiate effects - precipitated withdrawal.
@beachboy
Taking more bupe likely just made it worse... Next time start real small (like .5) and keep going up in small increments if you don't experience any PWDs.
36 hours later though... I'm at a loss... I've never gotten PWDs though, so hopefully someone else can explain why you still feel like shit 36 hrs later...
fullycaffeinated
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Yeah, I figured if he was shooting he had a decent tolerance... If you're coming off trams and vics, suboxone can and will certainly fuck you up... It's really best left to people who are addicted to h or high doses of pain pills, honestly I had a 500 mg oxy tolerance and they gave me 12 mg suboxone my first day in rehab, I was nodding out good...
The Doc.
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Its probably the fact you got cotton fever and feel like shit along with the shock that hit your body from PWDs. Precipitated withdrawal doesn't go away after an hour all the time. Give it some time I know that's easier said than done but its your only option besides getting more heroin to feel better. Also don't shoot anymore sub till you have been taking sub and been stable for a while. When you inject suboxone when inducting the chance of going into precipitated withdrawal goes way up due to the fact that not only is the bupe ripping the receptors free of opiates but the naloxone is added to make for a even more unenjoyable experience since its an opiate antagonist. Only shoot sub's when stable on Sub already and free from dope for a long time. Start with 1mg under the tounge next time and then you should be fine don't start bigger than 1mg when inducting or you may go into PWDs because the smaller the dose the less chance you have of getting PWDS and if they do come they are not nearly as bad as it would have been with a large starting dose such as 4 or 8 mgs. The same goes for snorting it don't snort the stuff when inducting you went wrong starting off by snorting Suboxone, insufflate bupe only when stable and heroin free for a long time because again the naloxone gets absorbed that way whereas when its under the tounge its basically inactive.
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The Doc.
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I think your making sub's out to be worse than they really are I mean is heroin better? Sub withdrawal is nothing compared to intense heroin withdrawal.
And ODing on sub's is extremely hard to do for anyone tolerant to opiates. You say you overdosed by doing a Vicodin tram and sub combo? Huh okay that's a first I doubt the sub made you OD what did the hospital say it was when you went to get checked out at the time?
fullycaffeinated
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I have officially read all 18 bupe megathreads...
Does anyone have any thoughts about a good sleeping med to ask for that will work well with bupe? Trying to put down the bottle and I haven't slept a wink tonight, I know from past experience that I won't be sleeping for a while without something to help... And for some reason dph/doxylamine just don't work anymore. I didn't even take them that much, I actually have most of the first box of unisom I bought the first time I got dopesick still.
Does anyone have any thoughts about a good sleeping med to ask for that will work well with bupe? Trying to put down the bottle and I haven't slept a wink tonight, I know from past experience that I won't be sleeping for a while without something to help... And for some reason dph/doxylamine just don't work anymore. I didn't even take them that much, I actually have most of the first box of unisom I bought the first time I got dopesick still.
fullycaffeinated
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^ was that last part directed at me instead? If so, I'm currently taking about 1 mg bupe a day IN. Bupe keeps me up so my last dose is always hours before bed. I love good craft beers and got in the habit of drinking at least a few a night... usually more like 6... thinking about it, I think it happened when I had to quit weed. If I could smoke I'd have far less trouble sleeping. I'm scripted flexeril and gabapentin, neither one makes me sleep anymore. Tried melatonin, valerian root... Seroquel, huh? Heard a lot of people mention that one... especially in rehab.
Did you jump at 12 mg? If so, no wonder the wd was so bad. I couldn't imagine doing that. I've done about 100 kicks, and in rehab they did a 9 day sub taper 12 to 2 then off. The first three days after that, I thought bupe was fucking amazing, a godsend. The 4th day I started to feel like shit. The 5th day I was still functional, but extremely agitated and emotional, sweating buckets, and could not stop moving. Day 6, was just more of day 5, and day 7, I got out of rehab and relapsed on OxyContin within hours. I didn't sleep more than a half hour after my second day off.
Fuck that. I relapsed HARD for 3 months, using primarily dope and more of it than ever, before I could find a bupe dr on the outside. I got on bupe, and other than my once a month using, I'm good. I stayed on 16-20 mg for about a month and a half, then lost my job and the dope scene that went with it, and realized quickly that since I had no dope surrounding me anymore I didn't need the blocking effect of the bupe. I've been maintaining on less than 6 mg since, been down to 1 mg for about a month. I figure it'll be a lot easier to get off if I need to, and my tolerance isn't shot... if I ever do get off, it'll be a long slow taper from 1 to 0...
*edit - just realized you said you were tapering. Where are you at? I was able to drop from 20 to 6 immediately, was stuck on 6 for a couple months, and then dropped to 4, and dropped down to 1 a couple weeks later. It's pretty much been painless. I don't know, after so many high dose oxy and h kicks, I really don't notice much as long as there's still something in my system, but getting to nothing is another story.
Did you jump at 12 mg? If so, no wonder the wd was so bad. I couldn't imagine doing that. I've done about 100 kicks, and in rehab they did a 9 day sub taper 12 to 2 then off. The first three days after that, I thought bupe was fucking amazing, a godsend. The 4th day I started to feel like shit. The 5th day I was still functional, but extremely agitated and emotional, sweating buckets, and could not stop moving. Day 6, was just more of day 5, and day 7, I got out of rehab and relapsed on OxyContin within hours. I didn't sleep more than a half hour after my second day off.
Fuck that. I relapsed HARD for 3 months, using primarily dope and more of it than ever, before I could find a bupe dr on the outside. I got on bupe, and other than my once a month using, I'm good. I stayed on 16-20 mg for about a month and a half, then lost my job and the dope scene that went with it, and realized quickly that since I had no dope surrounding me anymore I didn't need the blocking effect of the bupe. I've been maintaining on less than 6 mg since, been down to 1 mg for about a month. I figure it'll be a lot easier to get off if I need to, and my tolerance isn't shot... if I ever do get off, it'll be a long slow taper from 1 to 0...
*edit - just realized you said you were tapering. Where are you at? I was able to drop from 20 to 6 immediately, was stuck on 6 for a couple months, and then dropped to 4, and dropped down to 1 a couple weeks later. It's pretty much been painless. I don't know, after so many high dose oxy and h kicks, I really don't notice much as long as there's still something in my system, but getting to nothing is another story.
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fullycaffeinated
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Guys, guys... This shit is cray cray 
Haha sorry... I hate that shit but anyways.
Technically, an OD is any overdose of a drug that can cause adverse effects. But in reality, esp on these boards, when people say an OD, they generally mean a fatal or near-fatal experience where you fell out and had to be brought back.
Suboxone, you obviously didn't fall out, right? That's what he got worked up about. I'll be honest, when I read your post I almost said something too, but I left it alone. But people don't go bragging about real ODs. You have to remember, a lot of us have seen someone fall out. A lot of us have almost fallen out ourselves. I myself came close, I was working a 14 hour shift and I have no idea how many bundles I called in to my boy that day. I got one last bun to go home. I had to take a ferry across the lake on my drive home every night. I knew I was fucked up, so I didn't touch the bun until I got on the ferry, because when I got off I'd be in my town. I did half of it on the ferry and did the other half when I got home in the parking lot of my apartment. I got home and tried to lie to my girl about using that day. We got in a fight and I just passed out while we were fighting. I came to a while later, I don't know what happened after that but I was in and out all night and the next thing I remember is waking up hours later, half on my bed, half on the floor. When you almost fall out like that, it pisses you off to hear someone laugh about an OD like it's no big thing.
How did you OD off tram, vics, and bupe anyways? I'm curious, for real. You swallowed 4 mg? Did you have no tolerance then? The BA of oral suboxone is 10%, so you actually got .4 mg in your system. The trams if you took too many, you'd most likely have a seizure, and the vics, liver poisoning because of the APAP. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, it just makes no sense for me. If I took all that orally, my body would puke it up before anything serious, I guess I'm lucky that way. I puke anytime I take more than 300 mg tramadol at once, or more than about 3500 mg APAP at once. I know, I was a little pill head before I progressed to dope.
Anyways, I'll have to check out the power, I get paid tomorrow. Or maybe I'll have my mom order it since she has amazon prime and my bupe appt is the 11th so I'll be down that way. Neither Benadryl or unisom (dph or doxylamine) works for me anymore. Benzos are not an option most of the time with their long half lives as I piss test once a month. And now that I'm trying not to drink every night this is a serious problem.
Haha sorry... I hate that shit but anyways.
Technically, an OD is any overdose of a drug that can cause adverse effects. But in reality, esp on these boards, when people say an OD, they generally mean a fatal or near-fatal experience where you fell out and had to be brought back.
Suboxone, you obviously didn't fall out, right? That's what he got worked up about. I'll be honest, when I read your post I almost said something too, but I left it alone. But people don't go bragging about real ODs. You have to remember, a lot of us have seen someone fall out. A lot of us have almost fallen out ourselves. I myself came close, I was working a 14 hour shift and I have no idea how many bundles I called in to my boy that day. I got one last bun to go home. I had to take a ferry across the lake on my drive home every night. I knew I was fucked up, so I didn't touch the bun until I got on the ferry, because when I got off I'd be in my town. I did half of it on the ferry and did the other half when I got home in the parking lot of my apartment. I got home and tried to lie to my girl about using that day. We got in a fight and I just passed out while we were fighting. I came to a while later, I don't know what happened after that but I was in and out all night and the next thing I remember is waking up hours later, half on my bed, half on the floor. When you almost fall out like that, it pisses you off to hear someone laugh about an OD like it's no big thing.
How did you OD off tram, vics, and bupe anyways? I'm curious, for real. You swallowed 4 mg? Did you have no tolerance then? The BA of oral suboxone is 10%, so you actually got .4 mg in your system. The trams if you took too many, you'd most likely have a seizure, and the vics, liver poisoning because of the APAP. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, it just makes no sense for me. If I took all that orally, my body would puke it up before anything serious, I guess I'm lucky that way. I puke anytime I take more than 300 mg tramadol at once, or more than about 3500 mg APAP at once. I know, I was a little pill head before I progressed to dope.
Anyways, I'll have to check out the power, I get paid tomorrow. Or maybe I'll have my mom order it since she has amazon prime and my bupe appt is the 11th so I'll be down that way. Neither Benadryl or unisom (dph or doxylamine) works for me anymore. Benzos are not an option most of the time with their long half lives as I piss test once a month. And now that I'm trying not to drink every night this is a serious problem.
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The Doc.
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Your power got got off fullycaf? That sucks sorry to hear that.
That's good your not drinking I forgot you liked the good ol hair of the dog lol well keep it up you can do it soon I'll be weed and bupe you could get down to like 0.5 or 1 mg a day and be able to have it last for a long time.
Have you asked your doctor about trazadone for sleep? Its non habit forming they give it in detox and for the first while I was on sub's its worked wonders 100mgs knocked me right out pretty good. And for OTC what about zzzquil the stuff made by Nyquil? Or gravol.
Hope you get some sleep soon and talk to you again later be strong and keep coming back
That's good your not drinking I forgot you liked the good ol hair of the dog lol well keep it up you can do it soon I'll be weed and bupe you could get down to like 0.5 or 1 mg a day and be able to have it last for a long time.
Have you asked your doctor about trazadone for sleep? Its non habit forming they give it in detox and for the first while I was on sub's its worked wonders 100mgs knocked me right out pretty good. And for OTC what about zzzquil the stuff made by Nyquil? Or gravol.
Hope you get some sleep soon and talk to you again later be strong and keep coming back
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Eveleivibe
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Oh in the gym I am a beast
Trainspotter doesn't make "spartypants" remarks. He's very experienced with suboxone n opiates n does a lot to help me around here. I'm sure he was just trying to help
You that's all.
Anyway that aside Ive been taking 4 mg daily but I've also had intense cravings for alcohol which believe it or not the more suboxone I take the less cravings for alcohol I have.
I 'm really that I'm never going to get off this damn drug. 14 months I've been on it now. I know the WDs are psychological before 4 mg but the psychological shit is where I struggle; the complete empiness, the dullness, the endless void-like feeling. Ugh!
......so I've taken 6 mg today!
Edit: yes I agree with F/C. It's the bupe that causes the PC not the naloxone n I'd advise NEVER take such a huge dose like that during the induction process. I went up 2mg over several hours. You need to allow for opiates to come out your system. Look on the COWS scale (Google it) n make sure you're in moderate to intense withdrawal before taking suboxone always.
Evey
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Eveleivibe
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Who was it who mentioned about a good nod going? Sorry I cba reading to find quote, on my iPhone. I was put on subbies after codeine habit (yes, yes, yes I've heard it all , let's not go there again :D ) my point is I'm in agreement about thr nods. When on 12mg dose. (I had to go that high because was still craving) it actually killed my cravings for alcohol.
I went through a period where I was drinking heavily every night, bordering on alcohol addiction (as I've a family member died of liver failure due to alcoholism, as well as a few relative suffering from alcohism, I need to be careful). So I found that the high doses of suboxone didn't just kill my codeine cravings - but also alcohol cravings - stone dead.
My question is, out of curiosity, has anyone else found that suboxone killed alcohol cravings for them as well as opies?
Evey
I went through a period where I was drinking heavily every night, bordering on alcohol addiction (as I've a family member died of liver failure due to alcoholism, as well as a few relative suffering from alcohism, I need to be careful). So I found that the high doses of suboxone didn't just kill my codeine cravings - but also alcohol cravings - stone dead.
My question is, out of curiosity, has anyone else found that suboxone killed alcohol cravings for them as well as opies?
Evey
fullycaffeinated
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Suboxone never really killed my alcohol cravings entirely, it seemed to kill the urge to drink to excess though. I always was a couple drinks a night person, when I started doing pills and h, my drinking got a little out of control. When I went to rehab obv I wasn't drinking, and it stayed that way for a while after. Eventually I started having a drink here and there and I noticed lately it's been a while since I had a night without a drink. I think it's easier for me to let it go while on suboxone because I honestly don't get much out of drinking between the bupe and my tolerance anyways.
My parents are both alcoholics too, and it just seems perfectly normal to me to drink even six drinks in a night. Neither of them are falling down blackout drunks or anything, they just drink more than they should and for my mom, it's an all day thing. I've never been an all day drinker and I don't think I ever will be, but sometimes I still realize I need to check myself.
The Doc.
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The active ingredient, buprenorphine, is lipid soluble meaning that it is more like a ‘fatty’ molecule than a ‘watery’ molecule. Cell membranes are made of fats or ‘lipids’. Buprenorphine sticks to the cell membranes in the mouth, an area where the surfaces are called mucous membranes. That type of surface has a thin layer of cells which the buprenorphine crosses before eventually entering small blood vessels and capillaries where it then enters the bloodstream, eventually transported to the brain. In the brain the buprenorphine leaves the capillaries and binds to receptors on neurons that recognize endorphins and opiate medications.
Buprenorphine will not diffuse as easily across other surfaces, such as the skin on your body the cells are layered more deeply, so there is more to cross to get to a capillary. This is why buprenorphine is only made in IV solutions, skin patches and sublingual tablets
If you swallow the tablet, the buprenorphine will pass through the stomach and into the intestine. There it will be taken up by the bloodstream, into the ‘portal vein’, which goes straight into the liver. The liver is a big detoxifier; it destroys many chemicals before they have the chance to get further into the body. This is called ‘first pass metabolism’. Some drugs are broken down so efficiently that almost none of the amount taken will get to the brain. This is the case with buprenorphine. It is also the case with naloxone, the other ingredient in Suboxone naloxone doesn’t dissolve in lipids though, so it does not get into the bloodstream through the mouth lining either.
Buprenorphine will not diffuse as easily across other surfaces, such as the skin on your body the cells are layered more deeply, so there is more to cross to get to a capillary. This is why buprenorphine is only made in IV solutions, skin patches and sublingual tablets
If you swallow the tablet, the buprenorphine will pass through the stomach and into the intestine. There it will be taken up by the bloodstream, into the ‘portal vein’, which goes straight into the liver. The liver is a big detoxifier; it destroys many chemicals before they have the chance to get further into the body. This is called ‘first pass metabolism’. Some drugs are broken down so efficiently that almost none of the amount taken will get to the brain. This is the case with buprenorphine. It is also the case with naloxone, the other ingredient in Suboxone naloxone doesn’t dissolve in lipids though, so it does not get into the bloodstream through the mouth lining either.
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The Doc.
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I've read studies on Suboxone being used for alcohol addiction and even cocaine addiction. There still isn't a lot of evidence for why the sub helps the patients a whole lot or why it does seem to help addicts addicted to other classes of drugs besides opiates. I think it helps the addict because of the fact its a mind altering substance and drug addicts like drugs so they take the sub and get buzzed because sub's will do that for people who are not tolerent to opiates. But some studies show that's not always the case some say it even gets rid of the euphoria from booze detering the user from drinking alcohol. I know on high dose sub for me it really made alcohol use not fun it just seemed like a poison which made me sick and stupid but no euphoria or mood boost.
I'll try to find a article for you.
And thanks for backing me up eve.
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I have been tapering down from Methadone (75 units) and today morning I took the last 1 unit (tapered 1mL every day). That means for the last 10 days my doses have been 10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1 and hence the question - do I still need to wait 72 hours after dosing only 1mL which in my mouth felt barely like liquid, more like one drop of some Vitamin D which mixed with my saliva, dont know if it even went down my stomach. I plan on taking around 1mg of Subuxone to get me through 3-4 days (I have 4mg). I know its totally pointless from your POV to dose Subuxone after 1mL of 'done because 1mg of bupe is far more potent but I need to do it until monday for undisclosed reasons. So I just want to know do I really have to wait 72 hours after 1mL? 24 hours is soon passed.
Smoky
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Does anyone on here know if Buprenex has naloxone in it? I've done research online and found conflicting answers.
I relapsed ... on Heroin for 3 weeks now and full blown withdrawals are hitting me again in the morning (for whole week now). I have cut down somewhat from the amount I started on but wake up dope sick and need to work. I 'must' do something different. Of course I need to go through withdrawals and these 2 (methadone or subs), might help somewhat or could make it worse as I don't have enough for more than 2 days.
I have 2 10 mg methadone pills 'or' 3 vials of .6 buprenex on me to start with. I also have other withdrawal otc and some non addictive meds, and have ingredients via the Thomas Recipe as well as Lyrica, and 3 xanax some Clonidine.
Thanks for reading. My main question mostly is if I can take Buprenex? I've taken methadone before and went into a delirium (but will take it if needed).
If this is not appropriate thread I apologize.
I relapsed ... on Heroin for 3 weeks now and full blown withdrawals are hitting me again in the morning (for whole week now). I have cut down somewhat from the amount I started on but wake up dope sick and need to work. I 'must' do something different. Of course I need to go through withdrawals and these 2 (methadone or subs), might help somewhat or could make it worse as I don't have enough for more than 2 days.
I have 2 10 mg methadone pills 'or' 3 vials of .6 buprenex on me to start with. I also have other withdrawal otc and some non addictive meds, and have ingredients via the Thomas Recipe as well as Lyrica, and 3 xanax some Clonidine.
Thanks for reading. My main question mostly is if I can take Buprenex? I've taken methadone before and went into a delirium (but will take it if needed).
If this is not appropriate thread I apologize.
Smoky
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I have a bunch of 100 mg Lyricas. I'll double them and go from there, and wait on the subs... but definitely start those before Methadone.
Maybe the Lyrica will help me prolong needing the subs. I've been through withdrawal before but have not used those.
The last time I used Neurontin, but it's shorter acting.
And yeah, with methadone the mgs are tricky so I'll start with 5 if needed. I'm scared of methadone... but will take it if necessary so I can function.
Thank you so much. What is Zofran? I'll look it up.
Maybe the Lyrica will help me prolong needing the subs. I've been through withdrawal before but have not used those.
The last time I used Neurontin, but it's shorter acting.
And yeah, with methadone the mgs are tricky so I'll start with 5 if needed. I'm scared of methadone... but will take it if necessary so I can function.
Thank you so much. What is Zofran? I'll look it up.
Smoky
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Oh, it 'still' will cause some precipitated withdrawal? Thanks Trainspotter. Yikes!
Okay... Maybe I'll start with very small methadone and Lyrica. I want to take something in the middle of the night so I don't wake up sick and need Heroin... But, I can wait - I've done it before... Argh!
Okay... Maybe I'll start with very small methadone and Lyrica. I want to take something in the middle of the night so I don't wake up sick and need Heroin... But, I can wait - I've done it before... Argh!
fullycaffeinated
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@train and evey, suboxone has absolutely been used for alcohol and yes even cocaine dependence successfully... I'll look for some links too when I have more time. Unfortunately I've tried every dose of suboxone high to low, and none of it completely got rid of cravings for opiates or anything else. I still have using dreams. When I'd been on suboxone a month or two and was still taking high doses, I managed to go on a coke/crack binge for a good while, few weeks at least, I don't know what my issue is, but the drugs are totally stuck in my head.
@suboxone, there's no need to antagonize train, for real... yeah, the medical definition of an OD is adverse effects, like I said... but this isn't med school, it's bluelight. Also thinking about it either there must have been something else going on, or your liver has some issues, bc .4 (what should have been absorbed) isn't even neigh to get some opiate naive user high.
I don't wanna argue, for real... I've seen the fights on these boards before... Sometimes people make me laugh, fighting behind a computer screen... or an iPhone for me
@suboxone, there's no need to antagonize train, for real... yeah, the medical definition of an OD is adverse effects, like I said... but this isn't med school, it's bluelight. Also thinking about it either there must have been something else going on, or your liver has some issues, bc .4 (what should have been absorbed) isn't even neigh to get some opiate naive user high.
I don't wanna argue, for real... I've seen the fights on these boards before... Sometimes people make me laugh, fighting behind a computer screen... or an iPhone for me
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