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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine Mega Thread and FAQ v17.0 + v18.0

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Yea kratom trends to surprise me. I remember i was CLEAN, n had been for months, took a few g's of Bali n feel asleep sitting up on my elbow so it's def got potential. I might try only kratom tomorrow, one to see how i react w no opies/bupe n two if i end up eventually needing the sub it'll give me a lil extra time from the h
The point was a lil disappointing but I'll take that as a sign that i won't be missing out on much by quitting(who am i kidding, dope is, well it's dope)
I never took to counseling when in MMT or bupe maint but i can say that this place it's fucking awesome, or rather the people here. If it wasn't for y'all, mainly u flaga for the conversation, n kind words n for ziggy dropping knowledge, wisdom n inspiration well beyond my years(love hearing from the"old heads") so thanks y'all
 
eteezy915 said:
Yea kratom trends to surprise me. I remember i was CLEAN, n had been for months, took a few g's of Bali n feel asleep sitting up on my elbow so it's def got potential. I might try only kratom tomorrow, one to see how i react w no opies/bupe n two if i end up eventually needing the sub it'll give me a lil extra time from the h
The point was a lil disappointing but I'll take that as a sign that i won't be missing out on much by quitting(who am i kidding, dope is, well it's dope)
I never took to counseling when in MMT or bupe maint but i can say that this place it's fucking awesome, or rather the people here. If it wasn't for y'all, mainly u flaga for the conversation, n kind words n for ziggy dropping knowledge, wisdom n inspiration well beyond my years(love hearing from the"old heads") so thanks y'all
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I'm glad you find the place awesome. I agree with you it is ace xxxx
 
eteezy915 said:
Yea, I've lurked round for probably 6 years, occasionally posting questions but i find the general conversation with others in the same boat to b the best part
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Most do that before they become full members. That's all good. As away if you want advice with anything. We'll agree to differ re the DOC before suboxone but I've been on suboxone now so if there's anything you want to know. We'll try help. I'll also try help n if it's wrong, someone will correct me on it so you'll get ace advice here.
I don't know much about Kratom but know a few people who has used it as a way of getting off suboxone. Be careful with it because it can also be addictive if you use it too long.
Evey xxxx
 
Yes but having to swallow all that powder or nasty tea, plus the diminishing returns of re-dosing kinda help (me at least) keep it as an needed kind of thing. Plus the trouble of having to have an empty stomach turns me off because i stay hungry ha.
 
eteezy915 said:
Yes but having to swallow all that powder or nasty tea, plus the diminishing returns of re-dosing kinda help (me at least) keep it as an needed kind of thing. Plus the trouble of having to have an empty stomach turns me off because i stay hungry ha.
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I've had a drink so I can't best advise you. Others will be around soon n I'll be around tomorrow sometime so I'll read through things properly n give advice. It would not be fair to you giving you advice if I've not read what you posting properly. Take care. Evey xxxx
 
[/QUOTE]TE=eteezy915;12206823]
I truly feel that on these tapers I'm feeling the withdrawal from the OCs/Ds (dope is usually a treat that's why it's so hard not to do since i got) not the bupe bc used so sparingly and at low dose, it kinds masks the wd thru the day ime[/QUOTE]
Anyone else feel this is true?
I'm tryn to do a quick taper\detox from mainly, like 95%, blues, occasional Dilaidid and heroin by using low dose bupe to help without (hopefully) becoming dependent on the bupe. Over the past 4 days used 3.5mg bupe total, n at night begin to feel symptoms but i think they are from the blues.
Thoughts/experiences?
 
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If your used to dope, I can't see Kratom being anything negative in your life at the moment. Some may disagree, but its noticeably inconvenient to turn Kratom into an issue. So glad our conversation has helped you, I know it has helped for me. Being on here, reading about others who either have been or are in the same situation really gave me the will to jump off.

Subs are reducing the w/d by satisfying aspects of the receptors needs, but not others. This means you still feel the w/d, but the addiction is very much the same. With Kratom I actually think its a bit more complex. Dosing Kratom does NOT put me back into withdrawal when it wears off, if I took oxy or Bupe it would. Very interested in this fact.
 
Just a guess but probably bc kratom isn't an opiate/-oid, i believe it's in the indole family of anelgesics and although has it's own set of wd(albeit mild), doesn't trigger opiate wd. Probably the same reason one could dose kratom, wait to feel the effects then take bupe w no pW/Ds. Just a guess.
Kratom feels like a"clean" bupe. And where bupe numbs thc i find kratom + weed to synergize each other amazingly. Take some kratom, wait till u start to feel the come up and take a few tokes, amazing. I might be ordering some more kratom my half elbow is dwindling. And it I'd nice to have around AD it can be extremely helpful at times, under right circumstances, mainly not a huge tolerance.
 
The Kratom high is most certainly nicer then the Bupe feeling. And if you can keep your dose reasonable (big if) id say it's a good thing because it gives you a reason to keep your tolerance low. I really like the Red Vein Thai as a Bupe replacement.
 
Yea I've used kratom here n there for two years maybe. Just on come downs, i think i used it out the blue twice. And have always dosed around three grams or so at a time and 85% of the time it does what i want it too.
It's real similar to bupe in feel as far as anti-depressing and stimulating, but instead of numb i feel more alert active. It's a great anxyiolitic(sp?), much better than the klonopin that i have been Rx'd for like 5 years. And it's legal and relatively cheap.
 
Mr.Scagnattie said:
^^^

You're not understanding how withdrawal actually works. You don't get dependent on specific opiates like heroin, oxy, bupe, etc. You get addicted to opiates in general, and how they affect the brain. It is your tolerance level and the half-life of the drug in question that changes your withdrawal severity and length. All opiates will get rid of withdrawals, no matter what DOC you have, provided you adjust the dose for your tolerance. Understand? So, for example.. if you're addicted to oxy and switch to subs, it doesn't work the way where, if you don't take the subs long enough, you'll break your oxy addiction and not be hooked on the subs, or if you keep taking the subs, you'll be dependent on subs and not oxy.. by switching to bupe, no matter how long you take if for, you're still dependent on opiates but bupe is easier to taper with and has a longer half-life, so it'll allow for your opiate tolerance to drop, and therefore make withdrawals easier. That's how it works.
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I thought this was a wonderful post by Mr. S... Succinct and to the point. Your opiate receptors don't care what you feed them....as long as it's a opiate or opiate-like. They are not very discriminatory. You can't just lose a dope habit by going on sub...that was a big pharma lie. You CAN lessen your habit and WD by tapering or going to a less strong opiate. I personally don't think Kratom is a bad idea if your useing it to get off another stronger opiate....just use it with care and taper it too. I used 3 grams of plain leaf twice a day for a couple weeks to help get off sub..(along with Nerontin) I didn't notice much WD when I quit, maybe a bit more insomnia, but that was all.
Useing Kratom while on sub or another opiate seems pointless. Kratom is definitely at the bottom of the opiate ladder and can help people step off and be opiate free...just my opinion.
Some people go crazy with the Kratom. I've heard of one person who took sub for a Kratom addiction. That's just crazy!
 
I mentioned how much I liked that post when he made it, I have it stored on my clipboard for future use.

The reason Kratom works on subs (and IME it does, unquestionably) is because it seems to have activity at sites other then the mu receptors. What confuses me is the fact that while I understand and agree with Mr. Scags addiction explanation, drinking Kratom does not cause me to go back into withdrawal, something I find odd. If I took subs or oxy, once they wore off I'd be in a bad place. With Kratom I just feel good for 4 hours and then shitty for 15, then normal.

I honestly see more abuse opportunity with Kratom then Bupe as it's actually fun, but it's also easier to notice when ones habit is getting silly.
 
Ya i can def tell i did that shot, but all in all not too bad, I'm sitting waiting to clock in which usually meant "time to shoot" n i could if i wanted but I'm not. I just tossed like 3gs of kratom n hit the herb. I notice a slight tremor but I'll take one of my kpins. I wanna get through the work day with nothing else, including bupe, then see how i feel thru the night.
Originally i wanted to do that dope tonite but i think i might try to wait to avoid using two days in a row. i.have Monday off except for an evening class and would like to be on nothing that day to see where im at.
Regardless of what i.end up doing or not doing i still think I'm in a better place than i was at the beginning of the week. If for no other reason except the fact that I'm thinking soooo fucking hard about what i do n how it might effect the future when before it was, "ooh i got some, not any more, whose got more"
I hope that's not me justifying a slip today/nite but well see
 
I agree Evil,Imodium works well for opiate detox too. Twenty pills (40 mg) would stop my sub WDs cold. The only problem was I couldn't shit for three days after using it, and constipation on top of detox really sucks.
Really, the only thing that helps WD is time, and unfortunately it just crawls by in detox....
 
If you jump off a low enough dose, it really doesn't have to be that bad. I've had the most mild w/d from any substance in my life coming off Bupe (3 years) for the last week, thanks to tapering down well past 1mg. Yes, i've used Kratom a bit, but I've had several fully sober days as well, and at the worst i'd rate my w/d (after the jump) as a 4/10, and those waves lasted less then an hour each.
 
In defense of evey

Bupe has a very varied pharmacological effect at a variety of receptors.

Just because 12mg would last me a long time doesn't mean Evey doesn't need that much. Some people are fast metabolizers. Other people are insensitive to Bentley compounds like buprenorphine. Other people (yours truly) is hypersensitive (and am glad to be 95 days off it)

I know for me 12mg even sublingual is aversive - feels dysphoric as hell. Evey wouldn't be taking 12mg if it put her into dysphoria.
 
Capt H - Your absolutely, 100% right, and looking back on it I realize some of my posts on the topic make assumptions I have no right making. I'll still generally defend the idea that given the levels of use for her DOC, one would generally assume she could taper her Bupe dose comfortably for at least several MGs. There is the possibility this isn't true, but there is also the chance that it's a psychological block preventing taper, which I know it was for me for years. I felt if I took less it didn't work, ultimately when I committed myself this was not true. So from a HR stand point the suggestions that she should be good on a lower dose is valid, but (speaking only for myself) some of my posts certainly go past that. That you for bringing some level headed analysis. Congratulations on another day clean of the ops sir!

Evey - Capt reminded me of something that worked for me when I first jumped from my fent/oc/dillys habit to Bupe. The one dose a day just didn't cut it, even if it was higher then I needed. I needed one when I woke up and another just before bed. These two doses could be (for me) MUCH smaller then the single dose that wasn't working at all. I am pretty sensitive Bupe but I metabolize it very quickly so the two small doses worked remarkably well. Sorry for the assumptions I've made in past posts. I should have just told my experience but I went too far and assumed it should apply to others, which is not inherently true of course. 12mg would have made me sick even coming off the fent, so I just jump to the conclusion it can't be right for anyone.


This isn't directed at anyone, rather MDs in general: I also kind of wonder about the doc that wrote that script, assuming he didn't start off with something like 2x 2mg and work up till you felt comfortable. If you were honest about your habit and he wrote a script for more then a single 8mg from the start, I have to wonder if he listened in class. If it works it works, I would just hope Bupe docs started low and worked up. If the idea is to taper at some point, they do no favors by starting high and working down.
 
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