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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine Mega Thread and FAQ v16.0

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I've never been to Flint, but I know the Midwest in general has not been good to me, as far as my interests as an opiate enthusiast are concerned. I moved from a major city to backwoods hillbilly hell. Whatever. Had my reasons. Detroit sounds like a good bet -- the nearest large city to me is still half-ass clued in to the latest trends of the dope Nazis and their tireless efforts to ruin a perfectly good time for all.

I wonder if my being on suboxone so long, first, caused my sweet reaction to the tex. Probably why the website recommends it the other way around...

Oh, I know, I have it out for so many smart-ass little fuckers behind a desk or counter around here it would take the rest of my life to get the revenge I'm owed! If only they knew my getting my medicine is a matter of public safety ha ha. Would like to see that footage. Nothing like a reasonable argument to put a flimsy ass and her half-baked assumptions in their proper place. Still doesn't help when these people are the gatekeepers to our medicine and overall well being, and they know it. That kind of power should not be given to anyone; but that's a whole other thing.
 
I have a quick question for all you knowledgable people. I am on Suboxone 16mg per day. I do know that is way too much for where I am at with my maintenance. I have been at this amount for nine months (tomorrow is actually nine months of being clean with no relapses :))
So I am now wanting to start cutting my dose back but I find that every time I try I get uncomfortable quick. I do not want to start feeling wd until I jump to a much lowr dose so here is where my question lies. I want to get my tolerance down and thought about doing that by not taking any for a period of time. Once I am withdrawing I would then jump back on at the desired lowered dose.
Does anyone have any experience with this? And either way, how long should I not take any suboxone for to get my tolerance lowered.
If it helps here is a little info: 2x 8mg Suboxone SL, I am a female around 102lbs. Thank you in advance for any help and I apologize if this is a difficult question to answer! Thanks! Scarlet.
 
you will probably find that 16mg is far in excess of what you actually need. Bupe has agonist and antagonist ptoperties, i believe there is a ceiling effect doe where you just wont get any more out of it. For some people the ceiling dose is differnt, but from what ive gathered it varies from 2mg to 8mg. Try reducing by 1mg, i guarentee you wont feel a thing. Take it a week at a time if you want, though you ould probably get down to 8mg in a week easily.

I found it easy to get down to 2mg. Its been quite a lot tougher since then though. :\
 
Thank you!!!
After reading through this entire mega thread and doing quite a lot of research on my own, I realize how incredibly high my dose really is. When I first started on it it definitely seemed appropriate. That was what it took to stabilize me and I didn't argue :). But like I said, nine months later seems like an awful lot! I was just afraid to start doing this and feel uncomfortable from here on out or until I jump off. Do you think it would be beneficial to stop taking any for a few days?
I wish you luck with your taper! Are you trying to get off completely or just lower the dose as much as possible. I have heard that jump from 2mg is quite difficult. I definitely hope it gets easier for you :)
Thanks again! Scarlet.
Hope everyone is well tonight on Halloween!! Be safe everyone and enjoy yourselves.
 
Wowee... I couldn't get the script until about 66 hours after the last dose, and you know what... never got sick. Slightly anxious... slightly. And a little flat... a little. Nothing more. I think I got fairly lucky. Just the fear of it though was easily enough to stop it happening again. Thanks for the reply.
 
mydrugbuddy said:
you will probably find that 16mg is far in excess of what you actually need. Bupe has agonist and antagonist ptoperties, i believe there is a ceiling effect doe where you just wont get any more out of it. For some people the ceiling dose is differnt, but from what ive gathered it varies from 2mg to 8mg. Try reducing by 1mg, i guarentee you wont feel a thing. Take it a week at a time if you want, though you ould probably get down to 8mg in a week easily.

I found it easy to get down to 2mg. Its been quite a lot tougher since then though. :\
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Yeah I'm on the absolutely ridiculous amount of 32... I dropped by 8mg, and it had a slight effect, but nothing more than a lessening of feeling good, and an increase in anxiety. A few little sweats. I have the feeling I'll be able to drop down to 8-16 by 8mg at a time. Sound about right?
 
Do you think it would be beneficial to stop taking any for a few days?
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Yes, I would wait as long as you can handle and then take 4mg. I am curious how you would feel, possible you might feel better at 4mg than at 16. As long as you're sure that you won't try a full agonist, 1-4mg is def Optimal dosage range.

wish you well, thanks again for pointing out that article.

you might be interested in this thread: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/537631-the-Naloxone-in-Suboxone-is-active!

mydrugbuddy said:
I found it easy to get down to 2mg. Its been quite a lot tougher since then though. :\
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Same here, I can get down to 1mg pretty easily but no lower..:(
 
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Than you Zerrr!
I definitely think that not taking any Suboxone for awhile will help. I want to lower my tolerance and I really hope that 4mg feels better than 16mg. At this point I think its overkill and I would love to be able to stockpile these for a rainy day :) thanks for confirming that. And I am most definitely able to stay away from any full agonist but thanks for the advice. I don't want to put my recovery at jeopardy as it's been the first time in 7.5 years I've been clean this long!! I never want to go back to the hell I was in! Its good to be honest and realize that is a huge part of this plan.
Thanks for the link!! The more to read and explore the better :)
How is everyone? Hope you are all well and feeling good this weekend!
 
Zerrr said:
Yes, I would wait as long as you can handle and then take 4mg. I am curious how you would feel, possible you might feel better at 4mg than at 16. As long as you're sure that you won't try a full agonist, 1-4mg is def Optimal dosage range.
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I agree. If somebody is just lowering their dose then they may feel it since their body has to adjust, but if they skip a few days of dosing to the point of being sick then any amount of bupe should help a lot, making it a lot quicker of a way to get down to a lower dose.

That's the same theory with waiting as long as possible after your last opiate dose to start bupe. If you are on like 350mg of oxy a day then taking bupe the next day won't be that effective since it's so hard for bupe to match up to your oxy dose due to its ceiling dose. That's why the adjustment period can take a few days since the body takes some time to get used to having a lower daily dose. But if you wait a good 36-48 hours to dose it, then you will be sick to the point where anything will help, so a lot lower of a dose will be a lot more effective by that time.

As for the dose to get down to, well I agree that 4mg gives you about as much of the positive effects as you will get from the drug, but it may not be enough to diminish the cravings. For that, a dose of 8mg is better, but I don't see how anything above that helps. The best route to go is probably to split the difference and go for 6mg a day.

I know a lot of people say 4mg, but then again I see that a lot of them relapse, so it may not be enough. It depends on your habit too though, and I would say that any habit below like 120mg of oxycodone a day, or 2-3 bags of dope should be held at the 4mg dose. 2 would do the trick for a habit like that, but if the cravings are still there then get up to 4mg.
 
Slum Survivor said:
no it doesnt man... its all bull crap about the naloxone. only bupe causes ANY of the negative effects, unless the person is sensitive or allergic to naloxone. as it does get into the blood stream. it just gets out muscled by bupe at the receptor.

subutex and suboxone are seriously almost the exact same thing. dr's and pharamcists who believe otherwise, like mine, are idiots.

ive been getting very upset about this with people who try to argue otherwise... i mean dude. im a walking example. ugh...
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Interesting Study on the Sublingual Absorption of Naloxone
(I wonder how much they paid junkies to intentionally get extremely dope sick)
I'm not saying that you're wrong about naloxone being responsible for side effects in subs or not, I'm just saying it IS able to be absorbed sublingually, which means it COULD potentially be responsible for side effects, especially in users taking higher doses of suboxone. Again, I'm not saying you're WRONG. Though I would like to see a study that says you're right, about ZERO naloxone being absorbed because of the buperenorphine. Because most of the time, the only argument people come up with is that naloxone can't absorb under the tongue. This is FALSE. I know your argument is that Bupe has a higher affinity for the receptor sites. While this may be true, it doesn't remotely mean that not a shred of naloxone is absorbed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the nose AND under the tongue both have a "mucus membrane" through which drugs are absorbed?? If so, this is proof even without the study I linked too, considering naloxone overdose kits come with either a needle, or NASAL syringe of the stuff.

Anyway, anyone got a link to a study that PROVES DEFINITIVELY that no naloxone is absorbed from subs??
 
caseface99 said:
Anyway, anyone got a link to a study that PROVES DEFINITIVELY that no naloxone is absorbed from subs??
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It's not a question of absorption, it is a question of effect. I don't think anyone has been trying to dispute whether naloxone enters the bloodstream, just what (if any) effect it has while it is there.

According to the last study posted here, naloxone did not affect the pharmacokinetics (absorption) of buprenorphine in the subjects. Whatever it may be doing it is not interfering with the amount of bupe in the blood.


My hypothesis..

The bupe vs naloxone ratio in the blood will determine the effect naloxone has on an individual.
 
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Nobody ever said naloxone wasn't absorbed. If one where to be tested for it after taking suboxone, it would show up in your blood stream because you still ingested the drug. However, it is not active because it has a much lower binding affinity than buprenorphine, so it can not get to your receptors and effect you.
 
im having trouble getting lower than 0.25. Thats cutting a 2mg pill into 8 pieces. Reducing further than that is all guesswork, and not really working. Im trying to get some 0.2 pills. They should make the last few steps more measurable, and easier to reduce the dose by fractions.

Scarlet, personally i dont see the point or benefit of stopping for a few days. Yeah bupe has a long half life so you'd probably be ok for 24 hours with the dose you are on, but you'd just be ill after it wore off. Gradual reductions all the way for me after you have found your personal ceiling. You can cut really fast to find that though. Like just take 2mg every few hours until you feel OK, then you will find what you really need, and can starty gradualkly reducing from there.

The uncomfortable thing sucks Scarlett, but is managable if you take it by 0.5 at a time. When the dose gets lower you can reduce by even smaller ammounts. Sometimes i would adjust to the new dose within a week, other times it took 2 weeks. I tried to stop alltogether a couple of weeks ago but i felt like i had gastro-entiritis and that id walked a thousand miles, so a sudden stop is too much for me to handle. Im gonna do it by tiny fractions, i can handle being a bit uncomfortable but the sudden cessation you need to be as mentally and physically strong as fuck to do that.
 
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methadone and suboxone

I have been clean of my daily 85mgs of methadone use for 102 hours now. I really want to take my suboxone but don't want to get more sick than I already am. please help with any info on whether I have waited long enough or any info at all. thank you
 
mydrugbuddy said:
im having trouble getting lower than 0.25. Thats cutting a 2mg pill into 8 pieces. Reducing further than that is all guesswork, and not really working. Im trying to get some 0.2 pills. They should make the last few steps more measurable, and easier to reduce the dose by fractions.

Scarlet, personally i dont see the point or benefit of stopping for a few days. Yeah bupe has a long half life so you'd probably be ok for 24 hours with the dose you are on, but you'd just be ill after it wore off. Gradual reductions all the way for me after you have found your personal ceiling. You can cut really fast to find that though. Like just take 2mg every few hours until you feel OK, then you will find what you really need, and can starty gradualkly reducing from there.

The uncomfortable thing sucks Scarlett, but is managable if you take it by 0.5 at a time. When the dose gets lower you can reduce by even smaller ammounts. Sometimes i would adjust to the new dose within a week, other times it took 2 weeks. I tried to stop alltogether a couple of weeks ago but i felt like i had gastro-entiritis and that id walked a thousand miles, so a sudden stop is too much for me to handle. Im gonna do it by tiny fractions, i can handle being a bit uncomfortable but the sudden cessation you need to be as mentally and physically strong as fuck to do that.
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Many states have pill compounding pharmacies, where you can take a prescription of pills, and they will mix each pill into multiple other pills for you. I'm guessing they have a sublingual recipe for scripts like sub. Maybe do some searching around on the internet for one near you? Might be unlikely but worth a try.
 
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