Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v3; 2010 - 2022

[bwanajzj]

^You are so right... I wish I had checked this thread before eating the Methadone this morning... The thought hadn't even occurred to me. LOL. I guess it's become a subconscious habit already that I need to dose something in the morning, and not having subs, automatically led me to think, ahhhhhh, then just dose the methadone. Should have just waited... Because I like subs way more than methadone, and now I have to wait extra long before taking my next sub dose. DOH! And regarding the shooting, I also think I'm with you, and that I will stick to other ROA. I will make too much of a mess of myself before I get the banging technique right, for it to have any benefit at all, because I'm off the subs soon anyways. But at least now I can say that I have tried a self-administered IV injection. And leave it at that. At least that's the smart thing to do.

 

[Partykid12]

Hey guys - few quick questions. Does tramadol mess with a bupe withdrawl? I know it's not an opiate but the doc said that if you take bupe, you probably wont' feel tramadol, so if you're withdrawing from bupe and take a tramadol, does it prolong withdrawl or just help you out?

Also, I am currently on 5x2mg pills/day of Suboxone. My doc gave me 3 strips to try out last time (at my request) but hasn't said anything about the strips taking over. Is this happening all over the country or just in NY? I'm in the DC area.. My doctor will not, under any circumstances, prescribe Subutex (even though I've been on bupe for like 6 years and never pissed dirty). I hope to be off Bupe by this time next year so do you think strips would be better anyways?

 

[amapola]

Does tramadol mess with a bupe withdrawl? I know it's not an opiate but the doc said that if you take bupe, you probably wont' feel tramadol, so if you're withdrawing from bupe and take a tramadol, does it prolong withdrawl or just help you out?

Tramadol is primarily an opioid but because it also has other mechanisms of action it is not always completely blocked by bupe. If you take it during withdrawal it will both help reduce symptoms and prolong withdrawal.

 

[bwanajzj]

Hey peeps!

Hey guys - few quick questions. Does tramadol mess with a bupe withdrawl? I know it's not an opiate but the doc said that if you take bupe, you probably wont' feel tramadol, so if you're withdrawing from bupe and take a tramadol, does it prolong withdrawl or just help you out?

Also, I am currently on 5x2mg pills/day of Suboxone. My doc gave me 3 strips to try out last time (at my request) but hasn't said anything about the strips taking over. Is this happening all over the country or just in NY? I'm in the DC area.. My doctor will not, under any circumstances, prescribe Subutex (even though I've been on bupe for like 6 years and never pissed dirty). I hope to be off Bupe by this time next year so do you think strips would be better anyways?

Tramadol is primarily an opioid but because it also has other mechanisms of action it is not always completely blocked by bupe. If you take it during withdrawal it will both help reduce symptoms and prolong withdrawal.

Basically what you're doing is rotating opiates, which in some cases will make wd's worse, some cases better. *With Bupe, always keep the timing mind, as you don't want to induce withdrawal symptoms by dosing too early after another opiate or opiate derivative (all target opioid receptors of some sort or another and usually the same ones, causing blockade effects and/or cross-tolerance amongst other things).

So know your body and know the substances average metabolic rate, relative dosages (due to cross-tolerance), and the properties of the opiates that you are rotating with. I wouldn't worry too much, if you just experiment very few times, at low doses to begin with. Never above any dose where you begin to feel discomfort, and try to use as little as possible to satisfy your desired physical state and degree of altered consciousness. And just remember, all opiates cause wd symptoms of one sort or another, many and too plenty - even just after one use (they are just not that noticeable if you are opiate naive).

---

Anyways, used to be a time when 2 beers and a C. sativa spliff was my favorite high, then psychedelics and spliffs, then natural opiates and spliffs, then semi-synthetic and eventually synthetic opiates, and now I seem to favor the combo of buprenorphine, diazepam and cannabis, so opiates, benzos and spliffs... And I am in Subutex treatment to get out of opiate and/or drug addiction. @ low bupe doses (1 mg/day until Thursday next week, and then down every other day with 0.2 to 0), so very soon gonna jump (unless I decide otherwise, or find alternative further treatment options).

I think it is going to be a mighty rough ride, with my new preferential state of being (which is bound to be doom if this ridiculous combo highness I've got going is prolonged). With that in mind, I intend to impose a no-opiate/benzo/amphetamine/etc-use--UNLESS--desperately-medicinal philosophy, and see how long that pans out. I am, however, not done experimenting with cannabis and psychedelics, but those I can take it easy with. Slowly slowly. Not that desperate daily maintenance routine. Just occasional enlightenment and a bump up to a higher and wiser state of being once a while.

 

[Partykid12]

The tramadol question is more for my roommate.. he is currently wd'ing from a 4mg/day suboxone habit, cold turkey. He went 72 hours and took 1.5mg and now it's been 24hours and he says its not soo bad but he is feeling it. He has taken a few Tramadol and I thought that it would prolong his wd from the Bupe but he doesn't think it will. Just wanted to see if anyone knew this for sure? Again, he does not feel *that* bad right now so hopefully this is the worst but I'm thinking that maybe the 1.5mg he took yesterday and the Tramadol is what is causing him to not feel so bad.

 

[amapola]

^You are correct. It will prolong his withdrawal and is helping make him not feel so bad. This isn't necessarily a bad thing though. Just a different way of approaching detox; tapering versus cold turkey.

Also as bawanja pointed out taking bupe within 12 hours or so of taking tramadol can cause nasty precipitated withdrawal as the high affinity bupe displaces the tramadol.

 

[BrokedownPalace]

Also as bawanja pointed out taking bupe within 12 hours or so of taking tramadol can cause nasty precipitated withdrawal as the high affinity bupe displaces the tramadol.

That is actually incorrect. Tramadol is unique in that it can be taken in combination with suboxone(buprenorphine).

You may find (like many have), that buprenorphine and tramadol synergise one another (bupe doesn't block the tramadol). It is a fairly unique, and quirky unexpected mechanism involving serotonin mesolimbic system, and how the opioid receptors in CNS respond to an initial down regulation (caused by you fooling your system). The same goes for Subutex (straight bupe) and tramadol.

 

[amapola]

I know you can take tramadol and still get an effect while on bupe but I thought it was because of the other pain relief/euphoric properties of tramadol and the mu opioid receptors were still taken over by bupe. Hence you would still go into mu opioid precipitated withdrawal taking bupe right after tramadol though other mechanisms would continue to act.

 

[BrokedownPalace]

^No, I don't think so. Lefty has/is prescribed both and took/takes them together with no issues. A lot of other people claim the same thing as well. I understand your point but tramadol seems to be unique where taking it in conjunction with bupe doesn't precipitate withdrawal. I know some bupe doctors even PRESCRIBE tramadol for bupe patients who also need pain management. Which would have been my situation last year during cancer treatment, but I figured methadone was a better bet for getting off heroin. Not to mention I could never afford to see a bupe doctor.

 

[amapola]

Yeah taking them at the same time (or being on bupe first) would be fine as the bupe would already have a strong hold on the receptors and the other tramadol effects would just add on top and compliment it. I just think if you are on only tramadol and then administer bupe it would still pluck it off the mu which would make you feel bad (although other parts of the tramadol would still help a bit) until the bupe replaced it.

 

[BrokedownPalace]

^Possibly, I honestly am not sure since I have never done said combo. It just seemed that from all the other threads and whatnot I have read, and anecdotal experiences, that they two synergize nicely and that tramadol is a-typical in regards to the precipitated withdrawal situation.

And these reports were all specifically referring to taking bupe AFTER tramadol which caused no p/wd and equally synergized, same as if the bupe were taken first.

 

[amapola]

Haha yes I have never taken that combo before either and am not even going off reports just logically what makes sense to me from what I've heard on how they works so I won't go beyond saying what I've said so far. If people have mentioned this exact combo and it ended up fine then I agree that there is probably something else at work which makes it safe.

 

[BrokedownPalace]

Yeah you're logic is sound, just Tramadol has something a-typical about it, allowing it to be taken in conjunction with bupe, before or after, without the risk of precipitated withdrawals. I remember reading into this more, but forget the science (thank you xanax), but am now curious again so Im gonna look into this further tonight.

 

[j0nj0n]

ok, I'm currently w/d from subs but the w/d are coming in waves...has this every happened to anyone? Like most of the day I'll be alright then later on I really start feeling the w/d then once again I'll be alright several hours later.

I'm pretty sure this hasn't happened last time I was forced off of subs. It's been a week today w/ out any type of opiate but for hours i'll feel totally fine and then like for the last 3 hours I've been in such horrible pain. It's been like this for the past few days.

 

[mr. mudd]

I had withdrawal in waves when I was put onto subs, if that helps. It was all bad (my methadone dose was too high), but now and then it got Really bad for hours. I expect zero to work in a similar way.

 

[j0nj0n]

I thought it was weird since I've never experienced w/d like this before. In a way I kinda like it so I'm not suffering all day but then I kinda just wish it was all over ya know. I've been bugin my friend to find me some oc's but he can't seem to find them when i need them.

in a way I'm kinda glad he can't but then there's that part of me where I really want something to help ease all of this. If I felt like I could move I would go drive around since for some reason that takes all of the w/d away..i don't know if it's phycological like my brain is thinkin im going to the city to score or what. But it feels soooo good to drive specially when the suns out!!

 

[caseface99]

I wouldn't say it came in waves but certain times of the day were always worse then others, particularly in the evening, even if all day wasn't too bad. That's how bupe withdrawal was for me anyway.

 

[bwanajzj]

Yeah you're logic is sound, just Tramadol has something a-typical about it, allowing it to be taken in conjunction with bupe, before or after, without the risk of precipitated withdrawals. I remember reading into this more, but forget the science (thank you xanax), but am now curious again so Im gonna look into this further tonight.

I might have been a step ahead of myself, and accidentally implied that Tramadol would be responsible for precipitated withdrawals, if the Buprenorphine is taken before the Tramadol is out of the system. Not exactly what I meant... just a general safety awareness post in terms of opiate replacement and rotation therapy, and merely pointing out that Tramadol is active at numerous opioid receptors even though it is a synthetic derivative of other opiates, and that some issues might arise if another little opiate-fella came along and made any parking spot claims... But I also think that it is widely accepted that the combination of the two has no negative interactions or any issues regarding precipitating wds. But don't quote me on that, I'm with the Palace, and need to do some research to rediscover those claims...

---

I am also beginning to think that there are a wide range of opiates that can be taken followed by Buprenorphine without precipitating withdrawal symptoms... Reason I think so, is that I have been experimenting with a lot of different benzos and opiate combinations recently, while maintaining on Subutex, and not once have I gone into precipitated wd's, even when dosing Bupe before the average half-life mark of the other opiates. So if there are any brave souls out there, go get some research done and let us know what sort of heaven or hell you went through On that note, I dosed snorted 0.4 mg Bupe and took 0.6 sublingually at around 4PM today, 32 hours after I dosed 40 mg Methadone... No problems. I know this is a case where I was well on the safe side, but just sayin it for the record.

 

[Pegasus]

^The doses you are taking are well below the amounts that opiate blocking apparently occurs at. Also, if you are maintained on buprenorphine, the receptors will stay occupied for a long time while you use other opiates, and when you go back to bupe, there will be no ripping-off of the opiates from your receptors as bupe is still bound for the most part. Precipitated withdrawal happens when bupe competes for receptors with an opiate with less affinity that is already bound. This isn't happening in your scenario.

I will agree that there are opiates/ opioids that are seemingly not impacted by bupe; kratom is another. I don't know what would happen with large doses of 7-OHM though, so it may just have to do with the relative weakness of kratom leaf when compared to buprenorphine.

 

[bwanajzj]

That is actually incorrect. Tramadol is unique in that it can be taken in combination with suboxone(buprenorphine).

You may find (like many have), that buprenorphine and tramadol synergise one another (bupe doesn't block the tramadol). It is a fairly unique, and quirky unexpected mechanism involving serotonin mesolimbic system, and how the opioid receptors in CNS respond to an initial down regulation (caused by you fooling your system). The same goes for Subutex (straight bupe) and tramadol.

Is it a worth trying Tramadol with Subutex as a recreational combo? Does it enhance mood &c. in a good way? Euphoric, body/mind high? I have quite a high threshold for most drugs, even though I maintain at low doses of Subutex. What would be a good moderate Tramadol dose/kg? Enough to get proper effects..!? I like a good dose of Diazepam and a fat spliff to go with my Subutex, and all the while good food and drink, both when recreation is needed, but also when serious work needs to be done... I'm just all-round rock n roll - that should give you an idea of what sort of effect I am looking for....

...but...

....I don't expect you to encourage anything, I am looking for a quick and dirty sum up of information. If you or anyone else knows about the combination of substances, moderate dosage ranges (medicinal and recreational), common side effects, synergistic activity, and the effects of Tramadol in general when taken together with Buprenorphine. IF You've got the info, give a shout out!. A quick Bupe+Xanax sum-up wouldn't be too bad either!?¿¡

Shit... I went over the line with the coloring and all... purdy, innit?

Oh!!! Wouldn't Khat (miraa) be a wonderful supplement to Buprenorphine! That is an experiment I hope that I can undertake before my treatment is over! Or I'll find another time and place to do it.

Shit... I went over the line with the coloring and all... purdy, innit? [EDIT: amapola helped me make it less purdy]

Oh!!! Wouldn't Khat (miraa) be a wonderful supplement to Buprenorphine! That is an experiment I hope that I can undertake before my treatment is over! Or I'll find another time and place to do it.