Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v3; 2010 - 2022

[caseface99]

No, you most likely won't feel the OC, and you will wish you had used the search engine or posted in the suboxone/buprenorphine megathread before doing this rather than after.

 

[mymindisgoo]

depends,,, i've gotten high 8 -12 horus after taking sub. but thats me. i also dont withdraw from 80mg/oxy a day lol

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Hey i got a question..i took around 2-3mg of sub this morning around 8am and just took an oc40 around 10pm tonight..i never really take subs although i took some last night prob around 3mg(sub) around 8pm will i feel the oc?

This definitely isn't thread worthy on its own because it's self-serving (check out the first three links in my signature); so I'm going to merge this into the Suboxone Mega Thread.

 

[SubDude]

I've never even heard of naltrexone, but this may be good advice. I know that if it were possible to abuse the suboxone, then I would. I was under the impression that a person would be unable to get "high" off of suboxone because it must be taken sublingualy as opposed to snorting or shooting, in which case the suboxone's second ingredient would activate and cause the person to get sick. If this is not true, and a person can get high off of suboxone, then you better believe that I would abuse suboxone. Lol

Man, and listen to me saying that I don't think I have a problem. Pfft!

Thanks for the advice, man. I might steer clear of the suboxone, then.

I agree with Case. There is no good reason for you to get on subs at this point. I suggest you nip this in the bud before you find yourself in the same situation as many of us. Stuck on subs... don't like it... but better than the alternative. If I were you I'd break off friendships from anyone who uses or sells opiates. Hopefully a little pot will take care of your needs. Otherwise you're going down a slippery slope with [most likely] not a good ending.

Get a good therapist and ask for a referral to a group meeting with those who are in a similar situation. You need support to keep from moving further down the opiate road... which leads no where good.

As far as WD's from subs go... the large majority of addicts report very uncomfortable symptoms after tapering off completely. A few like JamesB report none or very minimal which is good for them. I understand wanting to change the mindset because a good part of WD's are psychological. But when you promote that... you also give people false hope and can influence people like yourself [on the fence] to go ahead and give it a try. Subs and methadone are for addicted people and can be used for maintenance and/or detox. It is most helpful to get your life back [from the street] and have some sanity again.

The taper JB talks about will definitely minimize WD's and prevent the worst of it.... and for him; total elimination. The problem being there are a lot of variables related to the intensity of WD's. This would include... but not limited too... duration of use, level of use, age, metabilism, genetics, overal health, attitude, motivations, comfort meds, social support, exercise...etc

One other thing regarding a slow taper off subs with minimal or no WD's. It usually takes a significant period of time along with some discipline to stick with the plan and be flexable enough to adjust according to our individual needs and situation. You must be highly motivated.

Many subs Dr's seem to be out of touch, naive, and misinformed with the realities suboxone. This includes maintenance dosage levels, proper tapering strategies, duration of taper, and a prudent drop off dose. But most of these MD's aren't stupid. You don't get thru med school by being an idiot. Well... maybe a few do?? Regardless... they understand chemistry/biology and the potency of subs as compared to other opiates. I personally believe they're taught to prescribe the higher [than needed] doses for blocking effects. It does seem that a lot of them aren't properly trained in good taper methods. But then it could depend on their training and own individual philosophy on WD's. Dr's know the power of suggestion is strong and if they tell you WD's won't be bad... they could actually believe they won't. There's also a school of thought for a quick taper... drop off and take it as best you can. Remembering how horrible it was can influence some to stay away from opiates. That being said... there are some dr's who don't give a fuck and are strictly in it for the money. You can usualy identify them after a couple of visits.

The following is an off site resource which is very good IMO. There is a little missing and a bit of questionable info, but most of it's sound:

http://www.medhelp.org/tags/health_page/45/Addiction/Suboxone-Subutex-FAQ-Part-One?hp_id=14

================

PEDAL: Ask your dr to check your testosterone levels. You can get shots and/or a gel. Some people find viagra helpful... at least to please our wives/gf .... and take the heat off. Once you get down to .25-.50mg it should change back some.

 

[verso]

Thanks for all of the feedback, everyone!

I think my biggest motivation is that I have no more money, and I need to start paying my bills the moment that I have money to spend. (I work part-time for the university that I attend, and of course, now we are on winter break, so that means that I won't be working again until the spring semester.)

I think that I can definitely quit cold turkey, being that I have no more money and that my bills come first, but I will still want to "use." If that is what being an addict is, wanting to use, then I am an addict. I guess that is why I considered suboxone in the first place and why my therapist recommended it.

But I have never suffered withdrawals from any of the painkillers I have used, not oxycontin, opana, or anything else. I hear that withdrawal is absolutely terrible, and if there is a chance that suboxone will put me into withdrawals, then I cannot imagine suboxone is a medication I would want to take. Hell, then I will really want to start using painkillers full-time or anything else that I can get my hands on to make the withdrawals go away.

I will just take a break for a little while, save up some money, pay some bills, watch some movies and take it easy. It has been three days so far without abusing painkillers, and I feel fine. I think that my melting-point will be in about a week from now when I look over at my snorting-straw and want to blow down a line. Oh, or when someone calls me with a killer deal on the blues. (Christ, they're expensive around here!) But we'll see! Thanks everyone!

 

[IndustrialStrength]

ive been reading about subs constantly on the internet for the past 4 years ive been on them, id say ive read about 2 out of 10000 people say they can come off subs after tapering without any pain. on the other hand i have read countless times of people going down to .2mg a day/ every other day and still being fucked for a few weeks when they quit. my friend had been stable on .2mg every other day for a month and he still didnt sleep for a week and a half when he quit. so excuse everyones pessimism when u say it can be done without pain. u really just have to stop taking them that is the main thing u can only taper so far it is such a rollercoaster of a drug its hard to tell when ur sick and when ur not becuz its different every day

Just wanted to note that this experience is spot on to my experiences with suboxone.
I wish more of us had the experience of JB with sub's.
It would be so much more pleasant.
Sadly enough my personal experience is much more like needle's statement.
Hell I even went so far as to stabilize at .125mg a day and still had considerable w/d's upon cessation.
I'd also like to note that I agree with the rollercoaster / sick or not thing as well.

Anyways, just wanted to add my experiences to help add to the crazy picture that is suboxone.

Lately I've been reading a lot about a sub taper then switching to kratom.
Perhaps for some of us this may be more of a painless route.
Haven't quite decided if I'm willing to give it a try myself yet but it's something to consider.

 

[dpc1192]

okay it's been like 5 days of about 5-6mg a day..

wake up today planning on being done, and feel a bit crappy.. I took 3 mg and i think that'll be it for the day.

in all i have about 13mg of sub left. How can I ween so I don't get sick? I should've planned this better, I just thought I'd be okay after this amount of time.

 

[caseface99]

4-6mgs is a hefty dose, if you're relatively 'ok' taking 3mgs today but still withdrawing a bit, take 3mgs again tomorrow, then 2mgs for a few days, 1mg for a few days, .5mgs for a few days, .25mgs, etc. Until you can't go any smaller.

 

[IndustrialStrength]

I realize this has been asked quite a few times & I've been reading the responses while I type this.
But I've been reading/talking bout sub's all day while in w/d's.
24+ hours since a below maintenance dose of oral morphine + hydrocodone (doesn't really affect me but thought it might help a bit).
So after all this reading & being in w/d's I took .25mg sub intra-nasal.
Am now in PWD.
Considering the low dose of bupe I'm assuming I can breakthrough the PWD if I wait an hour or so & get some dope.
Anyone have any experience with this that could chime in?
No fucking idea why I am getting it this time.
My BP/HR was through the roof, drenched in sweat, hitting the can repeatedly, etc. before taking the sub so I don't get why this is happening.
I've done sub's in half the time frame I stated & in much weaker w/d's & not gotten PWD.
Hell I even made sure to start small on the sub dose thus the .25mg
Regardless of whether or not anyone has info that will help the situation I'm curious as to why I would get PWD at this time.
When I've taken sub's in much shorter time frames, in less w/d's, with similar doses the prior day.
Either way if anyone has some input I'd be interested to hear it.
The PWD seems to have gotten less intense as I've been typing this post (note it's been about 45 minutes).
Actually now more like an hour but I digress.
Basically typing & re-typing this post to try & distract myself, so I apologize that this has been asked many times.
Mostly I'm just curious as to how this could happen as I'm very familiar with the subject & it just doesn't seem possible that I could have had
enough receptors occupied in the first place for me to get PWD.
Clearly I did, but it just doesn't make any sense to me.
Perhaps due to my usage of potentiators such as dxm, gf juice, etc. on prior days there was more left in my system than I thought.
But regardless I was more than high enough on the COWS scale that I should have been fine to dose sub.
A 26 by my calculations.
I figure that would be more than high enough to dose...
Does anyone know the exact COWS score that is appropriate to dose at?
I seem to find widely varying answers now that I'm looking more closely at the issue.
I generally figure 25 or higher & I'm good to go.
Apparently I was wrong.

If this post is to long & rambling for some posters feel free to ignore it, I just needed an outlet to distract myself & this seemed like a good one.
So anyways before I turn this post into a book I'll digress & post it.

 

[daddysgone]

I realize this has been asked quite a few times & I've been reading the responses while I type this.
But I've been reading/talking bout sub's all day while in w/d's.
24+ hours since a below maintenance dose of oral morphine + hydrocodone (doesn't really affect me but thought it might help a bit).
So after all this reading & being in w/d's I took .25mg sub intra-nasal.
Am now in PWD.
Considering the low dose of bupe I'm assuming I can breakthrough the PWD if I wait an hour or so & get some dope.
Anyone have any experience with this that could chime in?
No fucking idea why I am getting it this time.
My BP/HR was through the roof, drenched in sweat, hitting the can repeatedly, etc. before taking the sub so I don't get why this is happening.
I've done sub's in half the time frame I stated & in much weaker w/d's & not gotten PWD.
Hell I even made sure to start small on the sub dose thus the .25mg
Regardless of whether or not anyone has info that will help the situation I'm curious as to why I would get PWD at this time.
When I've taken sub's in much shorter time frames, in less w/d's, with similar doses the prior day.
Either way if anyone has some input I'd be interested to hear it.
The PWD seems to have gotten less intense as I've been typing this post (note it's been about 45 minutes).
Actually now more like an hour but I digress.
Basically typing & re-typing this post to try & distract myself, so I apologize that this has been asked many times.
Mostly I'm just curious as to how this could happen as I'm very familiar with the subject & it just doesn't seem possible that I could have had
enough receptors occupied in the first place for me to get PWD.
Clearly I did, but it just doesn't make any sense to me.
Perhaps due to my usage of potentiators such as dxm, gf juice, etc. on prior days there was more left in my system than I thought.
But regardless I was more than high enough on the COWS scale that I should have been fine to dose sub.
A 26 by my calculations.
I figure that would be more than high enough to dose...
Does anyone know the exact COWS score that is appropriate to dose at?
I seem to find widely varying answers now that I'm looking more closely at the issue.
I generally figure 25 or higher & I'm good to go.
Apparently I was wrong.

If this post is to long & rambling for some posters feel free to ignore it, I just needed an outlet to distract myself & this seemed like a good one.
So anyways before I turn this post into a book I'll digress & post it.

Sorry, I dont have an answer for you. But I will agree that your experience is quite odd. I would NOT have expected PWD for a number of reasons. You waited over 24 hours, you stated your dose of morphine/hydrocodone was low, you were already experiencing WD and you took a tiny dose of bupe. It just makes zero sense.

May I ask, how much morphine/hydrocodone did you take?

To be honest, I am surprised that .25mg would ever be enough to cause PWD. I would not think that .25mg would be enough to cause PWD even if you took it 30 minutes after doing a full agonist. Weird.

 

[IndustrialStrength]

^^

50mg of SR Morphine.
25mg of Hydrocodone in the form of 5/325 generic Vic's.

All that dose did was take the edge off a bit not even fully pull me out of w/d's.
Normally I would take 150mg of morphine orally to cover w/d's / not feel like shit.
As I've been using oral morphine to taper & had got down to where that would cover me for 8-12 hours.
Regardless I would wait 24 hrs between doses to conserve my supply / $.
However I've been trying to taper aggressively the last few days & as such have only taken what I stated above yesterday.
The day prior I had taken 50mg of Morphine SR & felt like shit all day & into yesterday.
The day prior to that I had taken 150mg of Morphine SR & felt halfway decent.
Note that I crush the SR's to defeat at least a little of the time release (it doesn't seem to fully defeat it).
I'm feeling slightly better as time passes but regardless I clearly PWD'd as symptoms of w/d got much worse.
I got terrible pains / muscle spasms, etc. that I was not experiencing prior to dosing the bupe.

The only other medications I've taken recently are:
25mg promethazine 30 min prior to the bupe.
25mg promethazine the night before as well.
Some temazepam & ramelteon over the past 2 days as needed for sleep.
Turns out ramelteon didn't do much for me sleep wise but that's besides the point.
Also low dose DXM daily over the last few weeks as an attempt to use NMDA antagonists to help prevent/reduce tolerance.
I skipped the DXM today as I wasn't sure how it would interact with bupe.
So last dose of DXM was also over 24 hours ago.
2 days prior to today I had smoked approx 10mg of methamphetamine but I don't believe that would have any relevance to this.

As I stated in my prior post I posted mostly to distract myself but now I'm just really curious as to how this could have happened.
The pieces of this puzzle just don't seem to fit IMHO.
That's another main reason I decided to go ahead & post rather than delete my post after having distracted myself for a bit.
Curiosity may have killed the cat but damned if I'm not curious as to what happened.

Just wanted to add that friday/saturday I slipped up & consumed approx 17.5mg's of intra-nasal Oxymorphone.
But considering the half-life I don't believe that would still factor in.
Regardless I just remembered & figured I'd mention it.

 

[dpc1192]

4-6mgs is a hefty dose, if you're relatively 'ok' taking 3mgs today but still withdrawing a bit, take 3mgs again tomorrow, then 2mgs for a few days, 1mg for a few days, .5mgs for a few days, .25mgs, etc. Until you can't go any smaller.

I feel completely fine today at 3mg.

 

[catcalls]

Dropping 1mg will cause wd in my experience. It'll be fine for the first few days, because of the remaining Subutex in your system. But, by the end of the week, you'll start to feel the withdrawal. I personally found it difficult to reduce by 0.4mg, and am thinking of trying 0.2mg next time.

 

[Pegasus]

^It is also dependednt on how large you are dosing when you decide to jump. If you're at 8mg or higher, 1mg shouldn't be too much of a drop, but dropping from 3mg to 2mg would probably not be too pleasant.

 

[catcalls]

^It is also dependednt on how large you are dosing when you decide to jump. If you're at 8mg or higher, 1mg shouldn't be too much of a drop, but dropping from 3mg to 2mg would probably not be too pleasant.

No offence but why is that? I'll agree with you because I've dropped quite healthily from 8mg down to 4mg, but dropping further started to hurt.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

No offence but why is that? I'll agree with you because I've dropped quite healthily from 8mg down to 4mg, but dropping further started to hurt.

It's due to the dose/effects curve of buprenorphine.

 

[SkagKush]

^ if you change your taper plan......(catcall), you may have better results.......

try adjusting at a new dose for a couple weeks, if not a month.......

drop in increments of 50 percent....

8mg

4mg

2mg

1mg

0.5mg......etc

 

[caseface99]

^^ Also, another good tip is that the lower you get the more it will hurt to drop your dose. So once you get down to 1mg you may want to cut by 25% rather than 50.


I've noticed no change since yesterday with my suboxone withdrawals. At a week +1 day i think so far, if not 2 days. I lost count lol. I've got klonopin lined up for when i stop taking kratom but i don't think i will make it that long, haven't decided what I'm going to do yet. Maybe take loperamide starting at 8-10mgs and drop by 1-2mgs a day. We'll see.

 

[SkagKush]

^ i forgot to add that, your completely right, and i could not agree more.....

 

[haden]

So I am nervous and scared and pretty sick, and I have an appointment with a suboxone doctor tomorrow at 1pm...

I have some questions....

From your experiences, will I be given suboxone at this appointment, or will I have to schedule another appointment for my first dose?

If I am to be given suboxone tomorrow, can I ask the doctor for a low dose? I want to take no more than 2mg to start and see if that holds me.. I want the lowest dose daily that is possible. I am gonna be pissed if the doctor MAKES me put an entire 8mg under my tongue because I have never needed more than 3-4mg to soothe wd symptoms.

If I do decide to use again in the near future (I am not planning on it) will I be drug tested? Do many sub docs drug test? And will I be kicked off the program if I fail my first test?

Please help! Thanks!

Haden