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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v3; 2010 - 2022

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^ You should be fine cutting down after a few days at the higher dose due to your relapse. You have to keep in mind that bupe has a long half-life, which is part of the reason why it gets more effective with each consecutive day you dose. If you take 4mg one day, and then even 2mg the next day, you should have pretty close to the same dose in you on day two, due to the build up.

Indeed, moreso than methadone IMO.
 
When people claim 0.5mg is the ideal dose, does this mean 1/16th of a film strip per day?

I've gotten down to 4mg a day and feel better, but a year ago I was in the 1mg range and 0.5mg/day would just not do it. I would wake up in wd a lot.

Finals are around the corner and anxiety levels are up, makes me want to use more. Negative bank account and no money for food, rent, or strips. Trying to fight the urge to use up my bupe.

The reason I ask is that ive never really experienced much benefit from such a low dose. Ive used higher amounts and have felt very good, but such a low dose does not really do any good. I guess my question is regarding the frequency of the 0.5mg dose and the ROA. I remember the suboxone tablets were much more effective at these low doses when insufflated, whereas these film strips dont cut it for some reason (probably because of sublingual route).

I wish I could use the tablets again, or have a cheaper script (the subutex tabs). Insufflated seemed to have a lot of benefits, one being it was much easier to lower the sub dose with lines than the sublingual route which seems rather varied with its effects. Some days 4mg is plenty, some days 16mg doesnt feel like enough. Why such a fluctuation in effective dose for myself? Is it psychological or is there a better (more STABLE/CONSISTENT) method for using the sublingual route?
 
When people claim 0.5mg is the ideal dose, does this mean 1/16th of a film strip per day?

I've gotten down to 4mg a day and feel better, but a year ago I was in the 1mg range and 0.5mg/day would just not do it. I would wake up in wd a lot.

Finals are around the corner and anxiety levels are up, makes me want to use more. Negative bank account and no money for food, rent, or strips. Trying to fight the urge to use up my bupe.

The reason I ask is that ive never really experienced much benefit from such a low dose. Ive used higher amounts and have felt very good, but such a low dose does not really do any good. I guess my question is regarding the frequency of the 0.5mg dose and the ROA. I remember the suboxone tablets were much more effective at these low doses when insufflated, whereas these film strips dont cut it for some reason (probably because of sublingual route).

I wish I could use the tablets again, or have a cheaper script (the subutex tabs). Insufflated seemed to have a lot of benefits, one being it was much easier to lower the sub dose with lines than the sublingual route which seems rather varied with its effects. Some days 4mg is plenty, some days 16mg doesnt feel like enough. Why such a fluctuation in effective dose for myself? Is it psychological or is there a better (more STABLE/CONSISTENT) method for using the sublingual route?

Yes .5mg is 1/16th of an 8mg pill. Bupe is an extremely potent drug milligram for milligram. It is active in microgram dosages. If you were at 1mg and it was holding you fine, you can not cut your dose in half by 50% without a transitional period. Personally, I would not go srtaight from 1mg to .5mg, I would either make it in 2 reductions, i.e. 1mg to .75mg, stay there for 2 weeks, then down to .5mg. As the doses get below 2mg the reductions are harder and harder. It takes time for your body to adjust to these new dosages, and you will have some level of withdrawal ranging from barely noticeable to moderate wtihdrawals.

Think about it like this.. imagine someone on 80mg methadone. If they suddenly reduced their dose by 50% as you did, they will be in for quite a treat withdrawal wise. Like anything else, the slower/smoother/longer your taper the less pain you will feel.

When people say .5mg is the ideal dose, they are referring to either the ideal dose for someoen with little to no opiate tolerance, or the ideal dose to work toward. If you are currently maintaining on 4mg daily for example, switching your dose to .5mg daily is not going to benefit you until you have leveled off at this new dose so it can hold you properly.

YOu need further explanation regarding your current opiate habits/dependency. Are you currently maintaining on bupe, if so for how long? Are you using other opiates? You say you feel that you need 4mg and sometimes as much as 16mg, but what do you need this for. Are you staving off withdrawals from a full agonist? I am confused as to the purpose of you taking bupe. If you can, go into more detail regarding a scenario where you felt you needed 16mg bupe, what made you feel that way.. were you coming off of a full agonist binge? Or maybe you are taking the bupe recreationally and not using other opiates?

If it is a high you are looking for or enjoying, you are chasing it out the door by taking such high doses. For someoen with no opiate tolerance, they would be best not taking more than .5mg total throughout the day. If they do so, they will be able to enjoy the benefits of bupe that do not exist at higher dosages.

Also, regarding ROA's I want to add that if you were sniffing 1mg that is different from sublingually taking 1mg. You are absorbing slightly more than double the 1mg by insufflating as the BA is higher (correct my if I am wrong but I think its around 60-70% vs 30% for sublingual).
 
yes, I agree. With buprenorphine I find that the tapering gets hard when you get below 4mg. I was somehow determined enough to suffer through 4 horrible days while I stabalized at 1/2 of my previous dosage, but from what I hear, cutting your dose by 25% is relatively painless and the transition is much smoother.

It takes the body about 12 days to fully rid itself of buprenorphine, so that is about the ammount of time it also takes to fully get used to a new dose, as you're basically waiting that period of time to shed off the half life from whatever regiment you were previously following. However, most people find that after 4 or 5 days, they adjust pretty well to the lower dosage, they just might experience withdrawal symptoms sooner than a person stabalized would.
 
I quit regularly use codeine 400mg-600mg & use & do oxy about 40mg-120mg.
anyways I got given some bubs & wondering about how different doses work
buprenorphine has a ceiling effect at 32 mg according to wikiepdia but does that mean the last 8mg is as strong as the first 8mg if u know what i mean?
Im quitting cwe because I got a liver function test done & my enzymes were slightly off balance probably due mostly to the soluble apap but also the codeine maybe but like i said im not taking the bupe just for the codeine w/d. Im trying to relax but dont want to get addicted. I only have 8 but can get more though.
I've had 16mg today & I dont feel great but certainly feel better. im just a bit more relaxed. I have another 16mg in my mouth atm. So im taking the ceiling dose because I think I can easily handle it. Yes I understand that is it's a high dose but im only feeling a little relaxed from too. Im not falling asleep or anything.
Is taking 32mg dangerous at all?
If I take 16mg-32mg of bupe every day how long could i take it for with stopping it pretty easy. or atleast with a half the dose for a day taper?
IIm guessing I could get away with 5 days but taking it for a week would be pushing my luck. I hope ya cant get w/d from just taking it for 4 days. Anyways its helping my c/w. a bit overkill but I was diagnosed with GAD & these pills some to be calming me down.
Someone I know has a script for temazepam & Valium so im going to be buying some of which ever benzo I decide. I usually take large doses of benzos. usually around 100mg of valium or 200mg of temazepam.
Is it any more dangerous to mix benzos with bupe than it is with oxy?
Ive mixed them with oxy before with no problems. benzos honestly practically have no effect on me.
btw I here ppl talking about "PAWS" When they get opiate w/d.
Can someone explain to me what PAWS means please?
I'm also not sure of the pills I'm getting. they have a stronger bitter taste that's not exactly pleasant :| & the pill has no logo on it?
It's also in a oval shape. Ive never seen pills without logos.
Are these definitely atleast subs even if they're not 8mg?
Im from Australia too if they look different here. My friend had no reason to lie.... just looked up on google for images & it looks the right shape. Doesnt have the BB written on them but these pills look very good they're all crumbled away
 
^The only reported cases of buprenorphine overdoses were with people using suboxone/subutex in combination with benzodiazepines (in fact, I'm pretty sure that in most case the benzo was temazepam too), so please be carefull, especially when taking such a high dosage.

5 days of consistant high dosages of buprenorphine definately can cause withdrawal, or make your withdrawal worse if you dont do a good taper. Buprenorphine is a partial agonist, but mg for mg, it is MUCH stronger than codeine. Also, it has a very long half life (approx. 36 hours) which means it builds up in your system, and takes a long time to leave. This is why suboxone withdrawal can be pretty unpleasant, much like methadone withdrawal-because it lasts so damn long.

"PAWS" stands for Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome. It is charecterized mostly by symptoms such as anxiety, lethargy, depression etc.. which follow the acute withdrawal. However, PAWS can last several months, and in long acting opioids like buprenorphine or methadone, it is usually even longer.
 
This may not be the correct place for this post, so sorry in advance. I'm just looking to avoid the horrendous, terrible situation that is precipitated W/D. It has happened to me a few times, once coming off Oxycontin, another coming off methadone. Any other time I've used heroin and then had to dose with bupe, I would maybe get sick if I didn't wait long enough, but the bupe would eventually take over and the precipitated W/D would fade off after an hour or so. When i dose after coming down from the methadone, totally different story. You have to be so very careful if you want to avoid the precip W/D. I waited a full 96 hours after my last dose of methadone, around 100mg, to take about 4 mgs of subutex and I STILL had the precip W/D.

Anyway, the point to this rambling post is that I'm just hoping to get a little feedback on what other members think might be the best route to go. Today is Saturday. I took a 200mg dose of methadone last sunday, 100mg the next day (monday) and two days later on wednesday another 100mg dose. It's now Sat, and about 24 hours ago I took some heroin to deal with the super crap feeling I already have, not wanting to risk taking the sub too soon. I'm sitting here going out of my mind with cravings but I don't want to feel those precip w/d's ever again. Is my dose of done so high that it would just take longer for my body to get rid of it, due to the buildup of drug in the bloodstream from dosing regularly? I'm not really worried about the smack I took, that is usually gone within a day and even if I get precipitated WD's from sub kicking off heroin from receptors I know from experience it doesn't last long. The methadone precipitated i experienced lasted a good 24 hours at least.

Anyway, if anyone had some good advice I'd love to hear it. For me sub has always been a life saver, worth more than its weight in gold. I could never overcome the craving, anxiety feeling of coming off heroin or done without giving in and getting more, but after several days of subs and then cold turkey + some xanax I was able to stay clean for a month earlier this year after using for years. Longest I've ever been clean my adult life. I want to get back to that again, I just keep finding myself using for a stupid reason that I somehow rationalize. I don't want to wait to take this sub right now but i'm scared shitless of getting really really sick. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, Thanks!

The Synestheste

edit - Just wanted to add, I know tapering with the methadone would have been the smart thing to do, but when i was looking at my last 100mg cap, and thinking how i wanted to be done with this shit, the urge to take it all and get it over with was too strong. Maybe that was a mistake, we'll see....
 
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take the bupe in extremely small doses to avoid those precipitated withdrawal effects.

as in, do NOT take more than 0.25mg at one time and WAIT 2 HOURS before taking the next 0.25mg.
 
Okey, so I've been doin' buprenorphine the nasal way for like a month now. Nothing extreme I know, can't compare it to life long use, etc. But it's still painful. I'm not usin' it for H/Oxy/Hydro withdrawal or something. Actually, such drugs I use maybe once every other month or so, but bupe is another thing. I'm just usin' bupe like any other drug. It gives me a nice energetic opioid bliss. It eliminates my depression, ADHD and general apathy better than everything else I've tried. Plus it's very cheap and long lasting around where I live. Generally I use 1.5mg a day. Had my last line 72 hours ago and have been using pregabalin and alprazolam these 3 days and still have some left of it. These 3 first days have been much easier than usual, but bupe withdrawal always starts for real at day 3 for me and I've been starting to feel it quite a lot the last few hours. This will be, if I'm correct, my 7th withdrawal from bupe. Longest period I've been using it non stop is 4 months every day and that was pretty rough (didn't sleep at all first 5 days etc). However, every withdrawal get proportionally much worse. I had around 10 periods of using bupe 2-weeks to 1 month in a row without any withdrawals at all after them. But then I had a longer session (4 months) and since then I just need to use a week to get a little bit of withdrawal. One month will give me about 7 days of semi-hell.

To get to the point here. To be realistic, as I see it now (and been doin' a long time) livin' life completely without doin' opiods regularly (1-2 times a week) is not an option for me. It's the only true thing that keeps me going. I've had many periods when I've been sucessful only usin' it 1-2 times a week (usually every 3th/4th day). But now, at this very moment and forward, what If I do a small dose, say a little bit under 1mg tomorrow, and then 3-4 four days after that repeat it again but with an even smaller dose, and continue to do this til' I'm down to like 0.25 or something, then maybe have 2 weeks of opiods completely, could this basically eliminate, or atleast diminish the withdrawal a lot/nearly completely/to any meaningful degree? Or would I just "reboot" the whole withdrawal completely and begin again from the beginning and still have to go thru the same intensity as if I cut em cold turkey now? I won't do a line right now atleast, cause I'm loaded with high doses of pregabalin and alprazolam, and sure, it would be wonderful, but I have more sense in me these days.

AGAIN, the essence of this very post:

But now, at this very moment and forward, what If I do a small dose, say a little bit under 1mg tomorrow, and then 3-4 four days after that repeat it again but with an even smaller dose, and continue to do this til' I'm down to like 0.25 or something, then maybe have 2 weeks of opiods completely, could this basically eliminate, or atleast diminish the withdrawal a lot/nearly completely/to any meaningful degree? Or would I just "reboot" the whole withdrawal completely and begin again from the beginning and still have to go thru the same intensity as if I cut em cold turkey now?
 
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^The only reported cases of buprenorphine overdoses were with people using suboxone/subutex in combination with benzodiazepines (in fact, I'm pretty sure that in most case the benzo was temazepam too), so please be carefull, especially when taking such a high dosage.
Yea, almost all "buprenorphine overdoses" are a result of combining bupe with benzos. The effects of the benzos are easier to treat than the effects of the buprenorphine since something like 10x the normal dose of naloxone is needed to reverse the effects of bupe. Flumazenil is usually administered to reverse the effects of the benzos since low doses of naloxone don't help with the respiratory depression caused by the bupe.

To get to the point here. To be realistic, as I see it now (and been doin' a long time) livin' life completely without doin' opiods regularly (1-2 times a week) is not an option for me. It's the only true thing that keeps me going. I've had many periods when I've been sucessful only usin' it 1-2 times a week (usually every 3th/4th day). But now, at this very moment and forward, what If I do a small dose, say a little bit under 1mg tomorrow, and then 3-4 four days after that repeat it again but with an even smaller dose, and continue to do this til' I'm down to like 0.25 or something, then maybe have 2 weeks of opiods completely, could this basically eliminate, or atleast diminish the withdrawal a lot/nearly completely/to any meaningful degree? Or would I just "reboot" the whole withdrawal completely and begin again from the beginning and still have to go thru the same intensity as if I cut em cold turkey now? I won't do a line right now atleast, cause I'm loaded with high doses of pregabalin and alprazolam, and sure, it would be wonderful, but I have more sense in me these days.

AGAIN, the essence of this very post:

But now, at this very moment and forward, what If I do a small dose, say a little bit under 1mg tomorrow, and then 3-4 four days after that repeat it again but with an even smaller dose, and continue to do this til' I'm down to like 0.25 or something, then maybe have 2 weeks of opiods completely, could this basically eliminate, or atleast diminish the withdrawal a lot/nearly completely/to any meaningful degree? Or would I just "reboot" the whole withdrawal completely and begin again from the beginning and still have to go thru the same intensity as if I cut em cold turkey now?

If you are going to attempt "chipping" (using periodically and avoiding dependence) you need to take a break first. You mentioned that your goal is a two week break, and I think that is probably the minimum you can stop for if you are looking to use 2x a week and avoid dependence. That's my experience with short acting opiates though, and I think that 1x a week would be a lot better with bupe.

If you are going to taper before the two week break you mention, then doing every other day would probably be better. If you are dosing every 3-4 days while dependent, then you are just torturing yourself a bit by letting yourself get sick before dosing.
 
Some of you may get upset. Call me lazy, and tell me to read through the thread. I tried, I am sorry. Too much information worded in ways that I cannot understand. :/ I got 2 packets of the sublingual subs. I last dosed a bag threw my nose about an hour to 2 hours ago. When would be the best time to take the sub? the guy who sold them to me said to take half of the 8/2 mg is this right?
 
Pirates_ in order to fully help you, we'd need a bit more information. What is your habit like? How many bags a day do you use, and how long have you been using?

Anyway, it is ideal to wait 24 hours after your last dose of a short acting opiate such as heroin before using the suboxone, as you really want to avoid precipiated withdrawals (though in all honesty, they're not the worst thing in the world, but they are very unpleasant.). If you can't wait 24 hours, than try to wait until you feel moderate to severe withdrawal symptoms. You should be able to go at least 12 hours before the withdrawals become too unbarable, especially if you've been insufflating dope, which tends to last longer IME.

I would also start off with 2mg to begin with. That is how I've always been inducted onto suboxone/subutex, with dosage increases given as necesairry.
 
not knowing anthing about suboxone, and being a noob with opiates (mistake) I injested 18 mg of suboxone (2 and 1/2). i have nearly no tolerance for opiates and the last time i used opiates was 7 days ago. i snorted 1 of the 8 mg tabs. i'm wondering if i did any serious damage to my body? ive had w/d symptoms since. ALSO i did a 7.5mg hydro tonight (about 36 hours from the sub dose) defiantly never abusing suboxone again, fuck
 
^ If you are fine 36 hours after the suboxone, then you didn't do any serious damage to your body. 18mg is a high dose and will block other opiates from working (usually for 2 days or so at that dose) so I doubt that 7.5mg hydrocodone did a thing for you. Even if the suboxone didn't block it, the high dose of suboxone that you took would make the hydro feel like nothing.

As long as opiates are taken safely and the way intended, they don't cause serious damage to the body. It's when they are taken with a dangerous combination, or taken in an unsafe manner (bad IV technique, not filtering solutions, etc...) that they become dangerous. Other than that, physical dependence leading to withdrawal is the main negative effect of regular opiate use.

Anyway, it is ideal to wait 24 hours after your last dose of a short acting opiate such as heroin before using the suboxone, as you really want to avoid precipiated withdrawals (though in all honesty, they're not the worst thing in the world, but they are very unpleasant.). If you can't wait 24 hours, than try to wait until you feel moderate to severe withdrawal symptoms. You should be able to go at least 12 hours before the withdrawals become too unbarable, especially if you've been insufflating dope, which tends to last longer IME.

I would also start off with 2mg to begin with. That is how I've always been inducted onto suboxone/subutex, with dosage increases given as necesairry.

I agree that 2mg is a good dose. 18 hours is the shortest time I would wait before dosing the suboxone. A few months ago I doses 16 hours after sniffing a few bags of heroin, and the transition was very weird (stomach felt weird, was salivating a lot, didn't feel much relief). The longer I wait, the better I feel from the suboxone. My habit wasn't bad so I didn't feel withdrawals until day 2, so I usually waited 36 hours to dose the suboxone.
 
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^Yeah man, I get that too.

I used to be able to take my suboxone really quickly after heroin, like under 12 hours, without experiencing precipitated withdrawal. However, the more I switched back and forth, the harder it became. Now I still feel some discomfort even at 24 hours, though I imagine some of the symptoms might be psychological. Still, I experience that kind of deranged sense of unease and a couple mild physical symptoms as well. It's not full blown precipitated withdrawal, but it's something.
 
^ Yea, I feel like the heroin has left most of my receptors, and the bupe is taking its place, but there is still some heroin on there that is being ripped off and replaced by the bupe. That's just my theory, but I haven't put much thought into it.
 
Pirates_ in order to fully help you, we'd need a bit more information. What is your habit like? How many bags a day do you use, and how long have you been using?

Anyway, it is ideal to wait 24 hours after your last dose of a short acting opiate such as heroin before using the suboxone, as you really want to avoid precipiated withdrawals (though in all honesty, they're not the worst thing in the world, but they are very unpleasant.). If you can't wait 24 hours, than try to wait until you feel moderate to severe withdrawal symptoms. You should be able to go at least 12 hours before the withdrawals become too unbarable, especially if you've been insufflating dope, which tends to last longer IME.

I would also start off with 2mg to begin with. That is how I've always been inducted onto suboxone/subutex, with dosage increases given as necesairry.

Currently I do about .8 of the powdered stuff a day, or .4 of the purest tar i have ever came across..I never slammed it, i just snort it..everyday Ive been using for about a year and a half, threw the nose. I usually wake up feelin pretty bad. I cant get my day started until i get my first hit.

Basically I am fiending around 10 am in the morning, feeling like shit by 2....and a few dry heaves by 7 pm.. i dont think i can wait till 7 or 2..my last dose of h was a .2 at 8...im thinking of trying it out at maybe 12 pm or 1pm..if i do get the pwd's what should i do?? go to a doctor??

oh yes, btw.. what is that that i hear opiates wont be effective hours to days after using suboxone?? I only have a few strips of this suboxone.. what can I expect..i dont know now.. i am thinking of just sticking with dope...ohh and btw... i only did .4 of powder today vs the .8 i usually do.. does that count for something?
 
Currently I do about .8 of the powdered stuff a day, or .4 of the purest tar i have ever came across..I never slammed it, i just snort it..everyday Ive been using for about a year and a half, threw the nose. I usually wake up feelin pretty bad. I cant get my day started until i get my first hit.

Basically I am fiending around 10 am in the morning, feeling like shit by 2....and a few dry heaves by 7 pm.. i dont think i can wait till 7 or 2..my last dose of h was a .2 at 8...im thinking of trying it out at maybe 12 pm or 1pm..if i do get the pwd's what should i do?? go to a doctor??

oh yes, btw.. what is that that i hear opiates wont be effective hours to days after using suboxone?? I only have a few strips of this suboxone.. what can I expect..i dont know now.. i am thinking of just sticking with dope...ohh and btw... i only did .4 of powder today vs the .8 i usually do.. does that count for something?

Wait until you are definitely sick before you take any bupe. For some it's 12 hours, others it's 24..it varies. You have to know your own body and metabolism. If you do go into PWD's, you don't need to go to the doctor..they only last for a little while and then you'll be fine. And, there is a blocking component to bupe..but only at higher doses. If on medium-high doses you won't be able to fully feel the effects of a full agonist for 12-24 hours, again..this varies too as everyone is different. But that's the average.
 
Wait until you are definitely sick before you take any bupe. For some it's 12 hours, others it's 24..it varies. You have to know your own body and metabolism. If you do go into PWD's, you don't need to go to the doctor..they only last for a little while and then you'll be fine. And, there is a blocking component to bupe..but only at higher doses. If on medium-high doses you won't be able to fully feel the effects of a full agonist for 12-24 hours, again..this varies too as everyone is different. But that's the average.
I seem to get sick pretty fast for some reason.. i feel very unconfortable as we speak. But i have taken some nerve tonic that i got from Wal-Mart and 3 25 mg benadyls..so i am trying to make it to 12 hours..by the time i wake up it will be time to bube.

next question, if i do bupe, and lets say i decide to go back to h, will i go threw any sort of withdraws while im waiting for the blocking to pass??

next question..I did a search online, and i found this page http://www.helpmegetoffdrugs.com/wst_page8.html
It states that you will only go threw PWD's if you inject it into a person who tolerant to other opiates other than bupe..it goes on to say if done sublinguially, a user should not have any ill effects..whats that about?
 
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