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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v3; 2010 - 2022
- Thread starter Thekid331
- Start date
- Status
...
well that sounds pretty strange...I'm the one who has been prescribed both suboxone and benzo's....and mirtazapine...and quietiapine...and what else...ah yeah venlafaxine.... I'm a bit borderline depressed and psychopathic.
I'm not so agree with you...
Well I'm an heroin addicted since when I was 19 ... now I'm 34... I never stopped to take opiates except for a year that I spent in jail and in a community (the Fucking Portage if you know about it....)...
I have been many times in treatment for detox... I tried both methadone and buprenorphine and also Oxycontin....
Well it really depends of what kind of detox you want to do...
For a long long long period I will suggest sub due to its longer BA...and for the fact that shooting heroin or eating opium or what else while on sub is quite useless...
But once you finally have to tapper and remove your terapy it's better to go with methadone... easier to tapper down... without the depression you get if you tapper sub...
Well years ago I did a sub treatment starting with 8mg than raised to 16mg that i took for almost a year...at the end i slowly reduced the daily dose and everything was fine until i reached 1mg ... at that point i fucked up my treatment and i started again with heroin...(I hadn't had Heroin or other opiates for 1 year!)....
But subutex wd was too bad... mentally speaking....and concerning stamina and verve... I was totally pissed off everything looked and sounded like shit...
even heroin didn't solve my depression problem...I was so nicely active on subutex that I convinced myself that i needed that 1mg per day for the rest of my life...that happened about 9 yrs ago...
Well i was slowing getting mad...and got some legal "issues"...i was imprisoned and instead of the jail I decided to detox fully....
I did that in a public clinic. a 45 days tapering program.
I started with 150mg of methadone! (well i know it's a lot...) but i came back from Goa... where I used the best heroin stuff ... at least 10 times stronger of the shitty heroin i find in italy....
I super quick reduced the dose to 80 mg (first week)....
Then 4 mg less every day...then 3... then 2mg....by the time i was followed by a team of psychiatrists and nurses...
I felt nothing wrong except for the fact that at low doses of methadone (6mg and smaller....) i had some problems with a sedative I took during the cure (Entumin... I don't know his name outside Italy)....
Well that sedative made me feel a lot of shaking bones and electric shocks in my body.....
Once the doctors understood that those simptoms were caused by that old medicament I could be able to do everything i wanted...
The first day I was at 0mg I was quite happy...i played table tennis all day and I also had sex with a nurse!
No matter what you say... methadone is much better for quick detox...
If you take it for a long long long time such as 20 years (i know many people that are in this situation...)....It's better that you resign to take it all life long...
further more i just had my first suboxone IV experience...
i shoot subutex many times in the past and i found agreable...if you are capable to stay without classic opiates for 2 or 3 days.... but i had never done suboxone in vein before...I did about 3mg... I was experiencing strong anxiety due to cocaine shoots i did yesterday night...i also shooted heroin but it didn't work at all because i'm in a suboxone treatment since 4 months...
I had never tried suboxone IV before due to myth of the possible WD if you do not separate buprenorphine from the antagonist shit...
In my mind that sounded without sense...but trust me the most of the italian heroin addicted believe that if they try to IV or even snort suboxone they are going to go in the worst WD ever seen...many of them also tell that they actually have tried and got WD...or they know someone who did it and ended in a hospital....
Well as soon as i tried it 3 hours ago i can say I'm doing fine... not so bad...i'm still to much anxious due to the cocaine's shoots i did last night and i'm unable to sleep....i took 10mg of valium rectally...dissolved in 20 ml of milk...
but nothing...
I'm quite disappointed about the sub effect...no rush at all and gave me only a little of relax...
I shooted in the groin ... in the femoral vein... but my needle is pretty fucked up so i need to wait till 8:30 am for a pharmacy to open
I'd like to do 2 mg more... and see what happens
Last edited:
SubDude
Bluelighter
Am I missing something or reading this wrong? This study suggests addicts like bupe more the subs to the point they would pay more for the bupe alone. This seems to indicate what xburtonchic says is true. CONCLUSION of study "These data suggest that although the buprenorphine/naloxone combination has intravenous abuse potential, that potential is lower than it is for buprenorphine alone, particularly when participants received higher maintenance doses and lower buprenorphine/naloxone challenge doses. Buprenorphine/naloxone may be a reasonable option for managing the risk for buprenorphine misuse during opioid dependence treatment."
Znegative
Bluelight Crew
what i want to know is this extraction method. I've only shot subutex once or twice but at the time i was at such a high maintenance dosage that I dont think i can judge fairly if their was any notable difference. However I due have some suspect that there is truth to the claim that subutex and suboxone are slightly different when injected, if only that subutex is effectively injected at higher dosages than suboxone can be.
My reason for believing this is that I've tried every ROA with suboxone, and know that for me shooting 2 mg (which should be roughly equivalent to about 6-8 mg) does not feel as strong. In fact I once went a month shooting about 6 mg of suboxone a day, and after that month I took four mg subligually and I actually felt kind of high from it. I would be interested though now, on a lower dosage of suboxone, to experiment with I.V subutex.
I do find it hard to believe though that subutex would still have much more abuse potential though as I've read that I.V buprenorphine crosses the blood brain barrier very slowly, so I can't imagine getting a full on rush from bupe like you would from heroin, oxymorphone or dilaudid.
Also, today is my second day switching over from SL to I.V. I've been dosing .3 mg at a time 3 times a day, though so far I've only gone through two shots. I realized that gabapentin really helps if your tapering on suboxone as it has analgesic-effects that help me push through the end of the day if I'm feeling uncomfortable. you can also shoot the gabapentin, just so you all know, though it doesnt make much of a difference, just kicks in faster.
My reason for believing this is that I've tried every ROA with suboxone, and know that for me shooting 2 mg (which should be roughly equivalent to about 6-8 mg) does not feel as strong. In fact I once went a month shooting about 6 mg of suboxone a day, and after that month I took four mg subligually and I actually felt kind of high from it. I would be interested though now, on a lower dosage of suboxone, to experiment with I.V subutex.
I do find it hard to believe though that subutex would still have much more abuse potential though as I've read that I.V buprenorphine crosses the blood brain barrier very slowly, so I can't imagine getting a full on rush from bupe like you would from heroin, oxymorphone or dilaudid.
Also, today is my second day switching over from SL to I.V. I've been dosing .3 mg at a time 3 times a day, though so far I've only gone through two shots. I realized that gabapentin really helps if your tapering on suboxone as it has analgesic-effects that help me push through the end of the day if I'm feeling uncomfortable. you can also shoot the gabapentin, just so you all know, though it doesnt make much of a difference, just kicks in faster.
Pegasus
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2006
- Messages
- 8,073
Yeah, all it's really saying is that buprenorphine is likely desirable as a recreational drug. This is pretty clear-- bupe is desirable. The study then compares different kinds of bupe users for the abuse potential of the different formulations. What they discovered was that lower doses and doses mixed with naloxone were less desirable, and for this reason they recommend higher doses of bupe in conjunction with naloxone. This also goes pretty much in line with what we know to be true-- the main issue I have with this is that it doesn't account for the side effects of higher doses/ naloxone. We have tons of discussion on here about using lower doses to reduce side effects, and while it does also increase the ability of the user to abuse opiates (including using bupe IV), lower doses do actually seem to work better for maintenance if the patient does not abuse opioids/ IV bupe. Forcing someone who is not an IV user to take large doses of bupe/naloxone doesn't make much sense to me as giving just bupe shouldn't be an issue (methadone is already given this way).
xburtonchic
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 17, 2011
- Messages
- 1,004
I think you need to chill out and tone down your reaction to a perfectly neutral post about my own personal experience. If it was a placebo effect, I'd have gotten pain relief from the two Percocet I took as well as the EXTRA SUBOXONE I took, because I expected those to work. I didn't expect the extraction method to work at all, because I'd never tried it before, so I'm curious as to how it's "all in my head." Therefore, the information I gave is not "blatantly false". You can't possibly make such a claim without knowing what my original pain level was, what it was after taking the Percocet, what it was after doubling up on my Suboxone dose, what it was after taking pure buprenorphine, or what effect Suboxone has on me as an individual in general. I'm sorry if my post offended you in some unknown way... I guess by saying "stupid naloxone"... but I was merely throwing it out there that it is possible to find ways to still get relief from pain while on Suboxone. A lot of people complain that it doesn't give them much pain relief, and if the Naloxone was entirely ineffective in the drug, as you seem to be intent on believing, people would be feeling the strong analgesic effects of the buprenorphine as well as feeling high from it, don't you think?
Speaking of naloxone. Nowhere in my post did I blame naloxone for my pain. I blame the fact that I have a concussion, ruptured eardrum, and fractured jaw on my pain... not the naloxone. Blaming pain on naloxone is just silly. So is attacking someone for their brand of pain management on a harm reduction website. I'm just saying.
Sorry if I offended you. I was joking about "stupid nalaxone", but I had to correct the post. But I don't understand this statement:
"A lot of people complain that it doesn't give them much pain relief, and if the Naloxone was entirely ineffective in the drug, as you seem to be intent on believing, people would be feeling the strong analgesic effects of the buprenorphine as well as feeling high from it, don't you think?"
Um, bupe may be a very potent opioid, but it is only a partial agonist. so how well it works is all in realation to your indivdual chemistry. ANd getting high and analgesia go hand in hand; I don't think you get one without the other(or at leats that the nalaxone is one without the other)
And it is not what I believe, but rather, facts. Even if nalaxone has SOME activity(which I said it might) nalaxone wears off in an hour, bupe(via the sublingual route) lasts what, 18-30 hours? So no, it is literally impossible for the nalaxone to be having a negative effect for longer than it's 60-90 minute half life.
I said I agreed with the captain about subutex and suboxone feeling identical, I just made my views more clear. But remember, I posted a link to a study, CLAIMING THAT BUPE WITH NALAXONE WAS LESS DESIRABLE THAN BUPE ALONE, and in fact it said people would pay more money for bupe then bupe/w nalaxone. SO I agve both sides of this debate that has raged on a while.
One more thing, I didn't say it was completely in your head, extracting pure bupe from suboxone should send the nasal or even sublingual BA up considerably, giving you a better effect. But in any case, nalaxone, with it's horrible BA and the fact it bind sless than bupe could not have possibl affected you longer than it's 60-90 minute half-life, sorry. But some people are super sensitive to nalaxone, and I have always been suspicous that just having an antagonist running through your body, attaching to even peripheral receptors could not be a good thing. So I I see both sides.
Anyway, sorry if I offended you, I get carried away sometimes...
"A lot of people complain that it doesn't give them much pain relief, and if the Naloxone was entirely ineffective in the drug, as you seem to be intent on believing, people would be feeling the strong analgesic effects of the buprenorphine as well as feeling high from it, don't you think?"
Um, bupe may be a very potent opioid, but it is only a partial agonist. so how well it works is all in realation to your indivdual chemistry. ANd getting high and analgesia go hand in hand; I don't think you get one without the other(or at leats that the nalaxone is one without the other)
And it is not what I believe, but rather, facts. Even if nalaxone has SOME activity(which I said it might) nalaxone wears off in an hour, bupe(via the sublingual route) lasts what, 18-30 hours? So no, it is literally impossible for the nalaxone to be having a negative effect for longer than it's 60-90 minute half life.
I said I agreed with the captain about subutex and suboxone feeling identical, I just made my views more clear. But remember, I posted a link to a study, CLAIMING THAT BUPE WITH NALAXONE WAS LESS DESIRABLE THAN BUPE ALONE, and in fact it said people would pay more money for bupe then bupe/w nalaxone. SO I agve both sides of this debate that has raged on a while.
One more thing, I didn't say it was completely in your head, extracting pure bupe from suboxone should send the nasal or even sublingual BA up considerably, giving you a better effect. But in any case, nalaxone, with it's horrible BA and the fact it bind sless than bupe could not have possibl affected you longer than it's 60-90 minute half-life, sorry. But some people are super sensitive to nalaxone, and I have always been suspicous that just having an antagonist running through your body, attaching to even peripheral receptors could not be a good thing. So I I see both sides.
Anyway, sorry if I offended you, I get carried away sometimes...
Been&Done
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2010
- Messages
- 235
This is my 1st post in this thread for quite some time and I hope everyone is doing great. Cap H, been asking about you in the Progress Thread, hope all is well
at your end.
I wrote a lot about this before and without going into too much details, i noticed that lots of people tend to think that Suboxone is exactly like Subutex,
and simply that's not true.
I have gone through extensive personal experiences over the last year and i shared most of it on here.
Over months, I have tried the 3 different Subutex (R.B, Roxane, Teva), "The" Suboxone plus the Canadian Suboxone (without the orange dye) with different doses, ranging from 4-6 mgs to 0.1 mg that i'm stabilizing on these days. Because i really wanted to know why do i feel "better" for lack of a "better" word, on Subutex, i did read quite a lot of medical studies and found that the Naloxone does have an effect on the whole experience and i call it unwanted effect; it was a tiny but nasty headache in my case. Naloxone headaches got thousands of entries on Google search. Strangely enough, i never got it with Suboxone when i first did them Sub-lingual, but were always there when i started Intra-nasal.
The notion that Naloxone unwanted effects only last 1 hour, that's also not true in my case. it's right there until i sleep, and sometimes i even wake up
with it....a true nightmare it is. I'm most likely "Naloxone sensitive" because not too many people see the difference.
Anyways, just wanted to share my 2 cents and say hello to this thread and its beautiful people.
Keep shining
at your end.
I wrote a lot about this before and without going into too much details, i noticed that lots of people tend to think that Suboxone is exactly like Subutex,
and simply that's not true.
I have gone through extensive personal experiences over the last year and i shared most of it on here.
Over months, I have tried the 3 different Subutex (R.B, Roxane, Teva), "The" Suboxone plus the Canadian Suboxone (without the orange dye) with different doses, ranging from 4-6 mgs to 0.1 mg that i'm stabilizing on these days. Because i really wanted to know why do i feel "better" for lack of a "better" word, on Subutex, i did read quite a lot of medical studies and found that the Naloxone does have an effect on the whole experience and i call it unwanted effect; it was a tiny but nasty headache in my case. Naloxone headaches got thousands of entries on Google search. Strangely enough, i never got it with Suboxone when i first did them Sub-lingual, but were always there when i started Intra-nasal.
The notion that Naloxone unwanted effects only last 1 hour, that's also not true in my case. it's right there until i sleep, and sometimes i even wake up
with it....a true nightmare it is. I'm most likely "Naloxone sensitive" because not too many people see the difference.
Anyways, just wanted to share my 2 cents and say hello to this thread and its beautiful people.
Keep shining
slortaone
Bluelighter
can you take immodium while on suboxone? sorry, im sure its been covered alot but i cant read through the entire thread.
edit - roughly 24 hours after taking 2mg suboxone.
edit - roughly 24 hours after taking 2mg suboxone.
NeighborhoodThreat
Bluelight Crew
Yes you can, shouldn't be any problems.
xburtonchic
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 17, 2011
- Messages
- 1,004
Alright, I just reread OD's guidelines, and it seems extraction methods *are* allowed (synthesis is not, I thought they were the same thing). And since I feel like the one I used was in the spirit of harm reduction and I think for other people like me... who ARE sensitive to naloxone and it prevents Suboxone from having any sort of analgesic properties... it could help them with pain management. So since someone asked, I'm going to go ahead and post it. But OD mods, feel free to UA it if you feel uncomfortable with it (also noticed it said extraction methods will be moderated closely, so...)
Anyway, it was easy. The extraction method isn't dangerous, there's no risk of blowing anything up or whatever. All you need is a small glass cup (like a shot glass), rubbing alcohol, a coffee filter, and a shallow bowl of hot water. As far as I know, this ONLY works with the tablets, not the strips. It works like this: Put the coffee filter on top of the shot glass and secure it with a rubber band, then place the tablet on the coffee filter. Pour a VERY small amount (about a tablespoon) of rubbing alcohol over the tablet, and let it strain for an hour or so. The naloxone and fillers will be left on top of the coffee filter as a white and chalky substance, and the bupe/rubbing alcohol will be dropped into the shot glass as a liquid. That's pretty much the easy part. After that, bye-bye goes the coffee filter and naloxone/fillers. Leave the rubbing alcohol/bupe extraction in the shot glass, and place the shot glass in the bowl of hot water. You might notice it start to bubble. This is the difficult part, because you have to KEEP replacing the water once it starts to lose heat. You don't have to, I suppose, but it will help the rubbing alcohol evaporate more quickly. I was only able to replace the water three or four times because I was out for most of the day, so the evaporation process took around 14 hours. Don't use boiling water, because it will cause condensation... and if ANY water gets into the mixture, you're screwed and you've just wasted a tablet. Once the rubbing alcohol has evaporated, the bupe will have crystalized. Scrape it out of the glass (not an easy feat either, believe me)... and then do with it what you will. Put it under your tongue, rail it, IV it, whatever your preferred method is - and voila! Pain = gone.
Just fucking BE CAREFUL and GO SLOW, for God's sake. Pure bupe is potent as shit. I do NOT recommend this for recreational use by any means. This is purely for people who are SENSITIVE TO NALOXONE and need pain relief. And even then, I think it should be an absolute, last resort method - I'm talking if absolutely nothing else will work (OTC pain meds, Tramadol, opioid pain killers, taking a little extra Suboxone, whatever.)
Again, mods - feel free to UA this if you're not comfortable with it. I was a bit hesitant to write it myself, but... idk I figured it might be able to help someone who's on Suboxone and can't get any pain relief. Because believe me, I fully know how much that sucks. Hopefully this helps someone. Just be responsible with it, please... I mean, seriously. Go really slow when you're dosing.
Anyway, it was easy. The extraction method isn't dangerous, there's no risk of blowing anything up or whatever. All you need is a small glass cup (like a shot glass), rubbing alcohol, a coffee filter, and a shallow bowl of hot water. As far as I know, this ONLY works with the tablets, not the strips. It works like this: Put the coffee filter on top of the shot glass and secure it with a rubber band, then place the tablet on the coffee filter. Pour a VERY small amount (about a tablespoon) of rubbing alcohol over the tablet, and let it strain for an hour or so. The naloxone and fillers will be left on top of the coffee filter as a white and chalky substance, and the bupe/rubbing alcohol will be dropped into the shot glass as a liquid. That's pretty much the easy part. After that, bye-bye goes the coffee filter and naloxone/fillers. Leave the rubbing alcohol/bupe extraction in the shot glass, and place the shot glass in the bowl of hot water. You might notice it start to bubble. This is the difficult part, because you have to KEEP replacing the water once it starts to lose heat. You don't have to, I suppose, but it will help the rubbing alcohol evaporate more quickly. I was only able to replace the water three or four times because I was out for most of the day, so the evaporation process took around 14 hours. Don't use boiling water, because it will cause condensation... and if ANY water gets into the mixture, you're screwed and you've just wasted a tablet. Once the rubbing alcohol has evaporated, the bupe will have crystalized. Scrape it out of the glass (not an easy feat either, believe me)... and then do with it what you will. Put it under your tongue, rail it, IV it, whatever your preferred method is - and voila! Pain = gone.
Just fucking BE CAREFUL and GO SLOW, for God's sake. Pure bupe is potent as shit. I do NOT recommend this for recreational use by any means. This is purely for people who are SENSITIVE TO NALOXONE and need pain relief. And even then, I think it should be an absolute, last resort method - I'm talking if absolutely nothing else will work (OTC pain meds, Tramadol, opioid pain killers, taking a little extra Suboxone, whatever.)
Again, mods - feel free to UA this if you're not comfortable with it. I was a bit hesitant to write it myself, but... idk I figured it might be able to help someone who's on Suboxone and can't get any pain relief. Because believe me, I fully know how much that sucks. Hopefully this helps someone. Just be responsible with it, please... I mean, seriously. Go really slow when you're dosing.
Fire&Water
Pumpkin King
For a safer & easier method you can pour the (shotglass) into a pyrex baking dish, direct a small fan onto it, a few hours
will give ya' powder...Not dissin'
lolitaofott
Bluelighter
subs and oxy habit help
I was told about suboxone and saw it as a miracle pill... I thought it would free me from my obsession... it can be very useful drug... I'm never in withdrawal.. but I still use.. and I do get high... I often think "oh great now I have two dependencies".... Is there anyone else out there who has experienced this (started taking suboxone, anticipating a life without opiates.. only to start using after a few weeks of clean time --or less-- for whatever reason..) Sure.. I'm functioning now.. I don't have to go through the ups and downs of getting high and dealing with WDs (no access to drugs.. no money.. etc)... but I suppose I'm not functioning.. I'm riding this perpetual roller-coaster of emotions.. I'm juggling uni... my addiction...other life stuff... it's hard
please tell me I'm not the only one going through this (I do realize that people do (mix subs and opiates), I've read about it on this very forum... but my situation is different.. I WANT to stop.. I am not doing this recreationally.. I hope I'm making sense)
thanks guys.. don't know what I'd do without all of you...
I was told about suboxone and saw it as a miracle pill... I thought it would free me from my obsession... it can be very useful drug... I'm never in withdrawal.. but I still use.. and I do get high... I often think "oh great now I have two dependencies".... Is there anyone else out there who has experienced this (started taking suboxone, anticipating a life without opiates.. only to start using after a few weeks of clean time --or less-- for whatever reason..) Sure.. I'm functioning now.. I don't have to go through the ups and downs of getting high and dealing with WDs (no access to drugs.. no money.. etc)... but I suppose I'm not functioning.. I'm riding this perpetual roller-coaster of emotions.. I'm juggling uni... my addiction...other life stuff... it's hard
please tell me I'm not the only one going through this (I do realize that people do (mix subs and opiates), I've read about it on this very forum... but my situation is different.. I WANT to stop.. I am not doing this recreationally.. I hope I'm making sense)
thanks guys.. don't know what I'd do without all of you...
mrflowers00
Ex-Bluelighter
i use subutex for my oxy withdrawals so i don't get sick much but i go back and forth every month it doesn't bother me though
sekio
Bluelight Crew
This stuff belongs in a Suboxone mega thread.
Been&Done
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2010
- Messages
- 235
Thanx guys for sharing the extraction method as sharing is indeed, caring. I would have gone and done it straight away of course if i wasn't
on my last few days after 13.5 months of Bupes. I can never forget those Naloxone headaches and how they made me hate everything
since i hated my daily dose, imagine that! Blaaa.
No Lolita, you're not the only one and it takes time to will and decide to quit all together. Just a simple notion to remember
when doing so; You got on the Subs in the 1st place so you can beat your problem with your D.O.C (Drug Of Choice). Yes, you're not
scoring and spending your money on dealers, but a potent substance as Bupe, even with being a partial agonist, is of course addictive.
Exchanging a dependency with another is not your long term goal, i believe.
Blocking the effects of other opiates for as long as 48 hours sometimes is also something worth thinking about, you don't want to waste
your money AND your high. Bupes wont really get you high if you're used to full agonists, especially after some time.
I'm trying here to show you both sides of the coin, since this dilemma has been discussed over and over and the final decision will always be
yours and yours alone. Personally, after consuming 2 bottles x 30 pills (Subutex once and Suboxone once) while still using Heroin, because
honestly, the high cannot be compared especially after years of usage, i still had to finally relocate to get clean.
Subs are not the problem solving pill that will fully heal you once you take it, no, it's a great invention that will help you beat your dependency
in a natural and more human way. Along with habits-changing, sports, a healthy diet and a positive outlook towards life, maybe even relocation if you
really need to, you will get there. Bupes did save my life in a way, but only because I have decided so. When you wake up one morning, looking back
at your life and say, i really want to feel better, you will know how to use the subs.
Good luck and share with us your progress, maybe even pass by The Progress Thread for a broader view on the whole thing.
on my last few days after 13.5 months of Bupes. I can never forget those Naloxone headaches and how they made me hate everything
since i hated my daily dose, imagine that! Blaaa.
I was told about suboxone and saw it as a miracle pill... I thought it would free me from my obsession... it can be very useful drug... I'm never in withdrawal.. but I still use.. and I do get high... I often think "oh great now I have two dependencies".... Is there anyone else out there who has experienced this (started taking suboxone, anticipating a life without opiates.. only to start using after a few weeks of clean time --or less-- for whatever reason..) Sure.. I'm functioning now.. I don't have to go through the ups and downs of getting high and dealing with WDs (no access to drugs.. no money.. etc)... but I suppose I'm not functioning.. I'm riding this perpetual roller-coaster of emotions.. I'm juggling uni... my addiction...other life stuff... it's hard
please tell me I'm not the only one going through this (I do realize that people do (mix subs and opiates), I've read about it on this very forum... but my situation is different.. I WANT to stop.. I am not doing this recreationally.. I hope I'm making sense)
thanks guys.. don't know what I'd do without all of you...
No Lolita, you're not the only one and it takes time to will and decide to quit all together. Just a simple notion to remember
when doing so; You got on the Subs in the 1st place so you can beat your problem with your D.O.C (Drug Of Choice). Yes, you're not
scoring and spending your money on dealers, but a potent substance as Bupe, even with being a partial agonist, is of course addictive.
Exchanging a dependency with another is not your long term goal, i believe.
Blocking the effects of other opiates for as long as 48 hours sometimes is also something worth thinking about, you don't want to waste
your money AND your high. Bupes wont really get you high if you're used to full agonists, especially after some time.
I'm trying here to show you both sides of the coin, since this dilemma has been discussed over and over and the final decision will always be
yours and yours alone. Personally, after consuming 2 bottles x 30 pills (Subutex once and Suboxone once) while still using Heroin, because
honestly, the high cannot be compared especially after years of usage, i still had to finally relocate to get clean.
Subs are not the problem solving pill that will fully heal you once you take it, no, it's a great invention that will help you beat your dependency
in a natural and more human way. Along with habits-changing, sports, a healthy diet and a positive outlook towards life, maybe even relocation if you
really need to, you will get there. Bupes did save my life in a way, but only because I have decided so. When you wake up one morning, looking back
at your life and say, i really want to feel better, you will know how to use the subs.
Good luck and share with us your progress, maybe even pass by The Progress Thread for a broader view on the whole thing.
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