Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v3; 2010 - 2022

[Ashley]

Anyone tried an intramuscular injection of a micron filtered solution of suboxone film? The link in the FAQ appears to be broken.

I've been wondering the same thing and I think I posted the question somewhere or abouts. My fiance has very few veins left and the ones that are left are becoming pretty precarious to hit. Sometimes they'll be here, sometimes it'll be a half inch left of where it has been. Anyway, I'm also interested - can a micron filtered shot of Subutex/Suboxone be injected intramuscularly and if so are there any risks associated with the procedure?

 

[Material541]

I've been wondering the same thing and I think I posted the question somewhere or abouts. My fiance has very few veins left and the ones that are left are becoming pretty precarious to hit. Sometimes they'll be here, sometimes it'll be a half inch left of where it has been. Anyway, I'm also interested - can a micron filtered shot of Subutex/Suboxone be injected intramuscularly and if so are there any risks associated with the procedure?

Yes, it can be done. I have done both IM and IV (micron filtered) extensively and have not noticed any risks exclusive to IM.

 

[ThePharmicist]

all my strips look like that cracked one too. I have never had anything else so I can't comment on a comparison. I feel like they have just dried out a bit too much and now are cracking. Also citric acid could be causign teh breakdown of the film.

Where would the citric acid being coming from do you think?


And I know a lot of sub users have probably gotten these crap strips, but my concern is when I get three or four doses in a row of that quality. I actually notice I start to feel the start of w/d, nothing major just lethargy, anxiety and feeling crappy overall. I pay out of the ass for the appointments and the meds themselves. I expect to get a consistent medication across the board.

Anyway, I'll put in a call to R&B and see if I can figure out what the story is. At this point I've found three types of strips. The regular shiny sandpaper strips, the dry cracked ones and these dry not cracked ones that have large white spots on them (these seem to work the best actually). Maybe the difference is in my head, or R&B's production method varies within lots.

 

[dcraver877]

the citric acid is listed as one of the inactive ingredients

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

^And the strips are still breaking down? Under what conditions are you storing your strips?

 

[xburtonchic]

could 16mg be to much for me then? I have horrible weakness, right leg swelling, I snort my pills btw. My body aches all the time could it be suboxon od?

It could be that you're either not taking enough and you're feeling the withdrawal from your DOC, or that there's some level of toxicity going on. But it's more likely the latter, since Suboxone has a ceiling effect. Still, the best way to find out is to decrease your dosage for a bit and then see happens. If you feel better, then you know to decrease your dosage. If that's the case, you might have to play around with your dose a bit to find out which is best for you; I'd talk to your Sub doctor about this first though.

Regarding the cracked strips - I've only noticed that happen with the 8mg films. I take the 4mg films, and the problems I have with those are actually the opposite effect, as in they get all stringy and melty-ish. But EVERY time I've been given an 8mg strip by a friend, it's always cracked, without fail, even when it's a fresh package that hasn't been opened. I'm really not sure what the deal is with that. I haven't noticed a different potency when the film is all cracked and dry, but then again... I haven't been on 8mg in a while so it's probably just because I'm used to a much smaller dosage. I actually prefer the cracked 8mg films as opposed to the stringy 4mg ones. So much easier to break in half.

 

[dcraver877]

they were cracked when i picked them up from the pharmacy. I opened the first one right when I got back into my car. So I literally had the script for 3 minutes before opening so I don't think the storage conditions are a factor.

 

[xburtonchic]

Just wondering... has anyone heard of the Buprenorphine transdermal patch? I believe it's called Bustal. Apparently it's been out for about a year now, but I didn't know about it until last Wednesday, when my addiction specialist told me it's his preferred method of weaning patients off Suboxone. From what I can remember (from what he told me), it is a time-released patch that releases VERY small doses (smaller than you can get from the tabs or films) over a weeklong period of time. He said that by the time you're done with the patch, which is about 4 weeks, the withdrawal symptoms are nearly nonexistent.

Has anyone tried this? It's expensive, but if what he says is true and it's actually legit, I'd rather put down the money, have no withdrawals so I can continue to live a normal life during that whole process.

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

^Heard of it, never tried it though. IIRC, the transdermal patch isn't approved for addiction treatment whereas Suboxone is. That doesn't mean you can't get a prescription for it, however.

I would talk to your doctor.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I want to go back on buprenorphine.

 

[Ashley26]

So i've been on a pretty high dose of bupe for about a month, and it's taken FOREVER to get off my receptors! I took over 100mg of oxy yesterday and didn't feel a thing. The last time I took bupe was at 8:00pm on Saturday, it's now 12:00pm on Tuesday and I'm barely feeling 80 mg of oxy. How much longer should I wait?!?!

 

[King Hop Head]

Maybe you could try antidepressants using one of the stronger ones like Paxil, if your taking Oxycodone 2 days a week you are unlikley to be physically dependant, though it could be PAWS is you were dependant in the past. Alternatively you could take Kava, it is relaxing, mood boosting and has anti addictive properties- it delayed me from getting dependant on Opiates. Baclofen is another alternative. Oh and make sure you are eating well and doing lots of exercise, such as going on a long run or bike ride the day after taking Opiates

 

[Znegative]

so I need a little advice from anyone who I.V's their suboxone.

I've been on 4 mg for about two months taken sublingually. Occasionally I'll take 6 mg, but for at least 90% of the past two months I've been on the same 4 mg regiment. My goal (which I've tried and failed to achieve in the past) is to get to a point where I'm no longer physically dependent on buprenorphine and can go days or weeks without taking it, basically just having it as a fall back to use if I feel like shooting dope. This way I figure I'll be able to feel the suboxone much more than I do now.

Of course I could try and just start skipping days between dosages but I've failed at that so the alternative in my point of view is to taper. I've been trying to do this sublingually but it's been really hard to get even a few days together taking dosages under 4 mg. It's not so much that I experience W/D, but just a very uncomfortable overall anxiety. So I've decided to taper using the I.V ROA as I found it was easier to do it that way in the past.

I calculated from the BA charts posted on this site (from a long time ago, I'm not sure if there have been any changes) that .3 mg I.V is = to 1 mg SL, so my goal for the time being would be to start off with doing no more than .9 mg I.V a day. For those of you who have switched over to I.V, how do you suggest I space these dosages out? I really don't want to get into the routine of fixing 10 times a day, so I'm thinking a .3 mg shot in the morning (8:00 AM) another one at 1 pm and then my final shot at around 4-5 pm. Also please let me know if my Bio-availability figures are off or if anyone thinks these are unreasonably small dosages to start off with when switching to I.V.

Thanks.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Anyway, I'm also interested - can a micron filtered shot of Subutex/Suboxone be injected intramuscularly and if so are there any risks associated with the procedure?

I've been doing this for a long time. Is it safe? I don't know. I wish I could tell you more.

If your boyfriend is down to his last veins, I'd say he could hit the gym up. If possible, use a non-injection ROA, but micron filtering and then IMing will work, despite whether or not it's known to be safe yet. I personally would rather risk that it's not safe (I have the feeling it is since I've done it many times now, no complications) than to run out of veins. It is possible to destroy your circulatory system via IVing to the point of death. I remember being skeptical of this idea, and then someone linked me to a documentary where this person was a heroin addict in the UK, and they were down to their femoral vein, and eventually died of something as a result of IVing way too much.

Good luck to the both of you!

OH - one last thing I just thought about... you NEED to aspirate the plunger and make sure there's just AIR when doing an intra-muscular injection. The sign of blood would indicate being in a blood vessel. You don't want to inject a shot into an artery; this would be devastating. I believe a member by the name of Shambles shared his story of accidentally doing just this, as he was going for an IM shot of ketamine, he didn't aspirate the plunger - and just by sheer luck, it ended up in an artery. So to answer that part of your question, yes, that is the one known risk I would think. Without aspirating, you could accidentally enter an artery.

so I need a little advice from anyone who I.V's their suboxone.

I've been on 4 mg for about two months taken sublingually. Occasionally I'll take 6 mg, but for at least 90% of the past two months I've been on the same 4 mg regiment. My goal (which I've tried and failed to achieve in the past) is to get to a point where I'm no longer physically dependent on buprenorphine and can go days or weeks without taking it, basically just having it as a fall back to use if I feel like shooting dope. This way I figure I'll be able to feel the suboxone much more than I do now.

Of course I could try and just start skipping days between dosages but I've failed at that so the alternative in my point of view is to taper. I've been trying to do this sublingually but it's been really hard to get even a few days together taking dosages under 4 mg. It's not so much that I experience W/D, but just a very uncomfortable overall anxiety. So I've decided to taper using the I.V ROA as I found it was easier to do it that way in the past.

I calculated from the BA charts posted on this site (from a long time ago, I'm not sure if there have been any changes) that .3 mg I.V is = to 1 mg SL, so my goal for the time being would be to start off with doing no more than .9 mg I.V a day. For those of you who have switched over to I.V, how do you suggest I space these dosages out? I really don't want to get into the routine of fixing 10 times a day, so I'm thinking a .3 mg shot in the morning (8:00 AM) another one at 1 pm and then my final shot at around 4-5 pm. Also please let me know if my Bio-availability figures are off or if anyone thinks these are unreasonably small dosages to start off with when switching to I.V.

Thanks.

According to the dosage guidelines for buprenex, I would aim for 150mcg to 300mcg for IV or IM injections. I believe the guidelines suggest you only IV once, but can IM two shots one after the other, in case the first doesn't effect you very well.

My personal advice is to not go over 200mcg per shot IV or IM; this is still quite potent.

So I would aim for two to three dosages of 200mcg, and that way if you end up doing it a fourth time, you're still within your 0.9mg goal.

Best of luck with getting to the point where you're not physically dependent on it! I've gone a whole 24 hour period without buprenorphine, some mild withdrawal symptoms, but I'm not "ready" to go longer than that without it. I'm still in the tapering process. The fact you even want to get there is pretty motivating though man! I hope to hear good news from you over time.

As an alternative, in case this isn't going to work out for whatever reason: you still can taper sublingually! I would just get used to 2mg dosages, 2x per day, and then go to 1x per day every other day, then 1x per day every day. Then you can go down to 1.5mg or 1mg from there, and so on.

Just wondering... has anyone heard of the Buprenorphine transdermal patch? I believe it's called Bustal. Apparently it's been out for about a year now, but I didn't know about it until last Wednesday, when my addiction specialist told me it's his preferred method of weaning patients off Suboxone. From what I can remember (from what he told me), it is a time-released patch that releases VERY small doses (smaller than you can get from the tabs or films) over a weeklong period of time. He said that by the time you're done with the patch, which is about 4 weeks, the withdrawal symptoms are nearly nonexistent.

Has anyone tried this? It's expensive, but if what he says is true and it's actually legit, I'd rather put down the money, have no withdrawals so I can continue to live a normal life during that whole process.

Buprenorphine's transdermal bioavailability is extremely low (lower than sublingual), so low, that the brand name patches that are on the market aren't going to effect people like me. Opiate naive/first timers? Possibly; I wouldn't know.

They would be more ideal for children, who for some reason, are effected by buprenorphine a lot more than adults (again, according to the buprenex guidelines I am making this inference).

 

[xburtonchic]

^Heard of it, never tried it though. IIRC, the transdermal patch isn't approved for addiction treatment whereas Suboxone is. That doesn't mean you can't get a prescription for it, however.

I would talk to your doctor.

I did. I was really intrigued when he brought it up. I said, "Can I try that?" And he just shook his head no, then mentioned the prices. I swear my eyes got so big when he told me how much one patch cost that I probably looked like a cartoon character lol. I'll have to tell him during my next visit about my new job, I think he's hesitant to write the script because he knew there was no way in hell I'd be able to afford it before. But... then again, I highly doubt my pharmacy would have it anyway; they never even have the films in stock when I try to pick up a new script.

On a different note. Yesterday I did an extraction method to get the naloxone and fillers out of an 8mg Suboxone pill, to try to get the analgesic properties of bupe without the naloxone getting in the way. And it worked! It's potent as shit, so I have to take small amounts, but literally the only pain I can feel now is in my jaw, and even that is hardly noticeable. And trust me, I am in a shitload of pain - a concussion on top of a concussion, ruptured eardrum, bruises and abrasions all over the place, a bunch of lumps on my head, entire body is sore, etc. Just wanted to throw it out there that there ARE ways to manage copious amounts of pain while you're on Suboxone. I tried two Percocet at first and it didn't work. I tried doubling my Suboxone dosage and it didn't work. Extracting the bupe and then taking it pure - that did work. Even if the whole process took an entire day.

But with that being said, please don't try extracting bupe from Suboxone unless you absolutely know what you are doing 100%. And if you do - be careful, take it slow. That shit is EXTREMELY potent in pure form, no joke. You really only need less than a centimeter of a line to get full analgesic effects, and I actually have a tolerance. God knows what railing an entire pill would do. Just... yeah, don't do it. This seems like something to do only in emergencies, when you really can't handle the pain and nothing else will work because of the stupid Naloxone... at least for me anyway. There is recreational value in it (which is why I'm not saying how I did it), but it would be way too easy to overdose on.

 

[dcraver877]

anyone get hiccups all the time on sub? they are starting to get really annoying. Coffee seams to help but its weird having hiccups everyday in class.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I did. I was really intrigued when he brought it up. I said, "Can I try that?" And he just shook his head no, then mentioned the prices. I swear my eyes got so big when he told me how much one patch cost that I probably looked like a cartoon character lol. I'll have to tell him during my next visit about my new job, I think he's hesitant to write the script because he knew there was no way in hell I'd be able to afford it before. But... then again, I highly doubt my pharmacy would have it anyway; they never even have the films in stock when I try to pick up a new script.

On a different note. Yesterday I did an extraction method to get the naloxone and fillers out of an 8mg Suboxone pill, to try to get the analgesic properties of bupe without the naloxone getting in the way. And it worked! It's potent as shit, so I have to take small amounts, but literally the only pain I can feel now is in my jaw, and even that is hardly noticeable. And trust me, I am in a shitload of pain - a concussion on top of a concussion, ruptured eardrum, bruises and abrasions all over the place, a bunch of lumps on my head, entire body is sore, etc. Just wanted to throw it out there that there ARE ways to manage copious amounts of pain while you're on Suboxone. I tried two Percocet at first and it didn't work. I tried doubling my Suboxone dosage and it didn't work. Extracting the bupe and then taking it pure - that did work. Even if the whole process took an entire day.

But with that being said, please don't try extracting bupe from Suboxone unless you absolutely know what you are doing 100%. And if you do - be careful, take it slow. That shit is EXTREMELY potent in pure form, no joke. You really only need less than a centimeter of a line to get full analgesic effects, and I actually have a tolerance. God knows what railing an entire pill would do. Just... yeah, don't do it. This seems like something to do only in emergencies, when you really can't handle the pain and nothing else will work because of the stupid Naloxone... at least for me anyway. There is recreational value in it (which is why I'm not saying how I did it), but it would be way too easy to overdose on.

I have tried similar dosages of Subutex and Suboxone IV, and I experienced identical effects. I can't dispute what you're saying entirely as I'm not sure (since others have reported this idea too)... but just saying, I personally don't think there's a difference. I've gone in this subject in-depth before and won't this time as I'm sure you've read those posts too But hey, if it works for you, I'm happy for you. :D

anyone get hiccups all the time on sub? they are starting to get really annoying. Coffee seams to help but its weird having hiccups everyday in class.

I do. I hate it too. I believe buprenorphine relaxes the diaphragm and I believe this is the source of the problem. I can't be entirely sure as I haven't read/researched this specific side effect extensively.

 

[Pegasus]

^Yeah, I agree that it is relaxation of the diaphragm most likely. Benzos used to do the same thing to me.

 

[slowpoke1967]

i am currently on 100 mg of methadone and may increase it tomorrow to maybe 105 or 110mg,,when i started the program they realy pushed to get me to try suboxone or subutex or bupe etc,,, but its not coverd by my health program so i had to go the methadone root,,,now i was wondering ,if i go a day without methadone i get wicked bad WDs and 2 days even worse ,so much pain and can bairly move at all ,,i hurt from the bottom of my feet to my fingures,like bad chronic arthritis plus feeling very sick etc,,now is it the same with suboxone and subutex,,i almost regret going on methadone ,,cept for the fact it does work ,but dare not miss a dose or be to late on taking yer dose,,should i switch???out of curiousity why am i at 392 posts instead of the500 or so i had before i came back??just curious...

 

[lorne667]

I did. I was really intrigued when he brought it up. I said, "Can I try that?" And he just shook his head no, then mentioned the prices. I swear my eyes got so big when he told me how much one patch cost that I probably looked like a cartoon character lol. I'll have to tell him during my next visit about my new job, I think he's hesitant to write the script because he knew there was no way in hell I'd be able to afford it before. But... then again, I highly doubt my pharmacy would have it anyway; they never even have the films in stock when I try to pick up a new script.

On a different note. Yesterday I did an extraction method to get the naloxone and fillers out of an 8mg Suboxone pill, to try to get the analgesic properties of bupe without the naloxone getting in the way. And it worked! It's potent as shit, so I have to take small amounts, but literally the only pain I can feel now is in my jaw, and even that is hardly noticeable. And trust me, I am in a shitload of pain - a concussion on top of a concussion, ruptured eardrum, bruises and abrasions all over the place, a bunch of lumps on my head, entire body is sore, etc. Just wanted to throw it out there that there ARE ways to manage copious amounts of pain while you're on Suboxone. I tried two Percocet at first and it didn't work. I tried doubling my Suboxone dosage and it didn't work. Extracting the bupe and then taking it pure - that did work. Even if the whole process took an entire day.

But with that being said, please don't try extracting bupe from Suboxone unless you absolutely know what you are doing 100%. And if you do - be careful, take it slow. That shit is EXTREMELY potent in pure form, no joke. You really only need less than a centimeter of a line to get full analgesic effects, and I actually have a tolerance. God knows what railing an entire pill would do. Just... yeah, don't do it. This seems like something to do only in emergencies, when you really can't handle the pain and nothing else will work because of the stupid Naloxone... at least for me anyway. There is recreational value in it (which is why I'm not saying how I did it), but it would be way too easy to overdose on.

No offense, but are you high??? First off, there is no significant difference between suboxone and subutex, because, as been sad a thousand times, bupe outcompetes nalaxone. 2nd, nalaxones BA is poor by any route other than IV(and possibly IM?) an finally, even if you are sup sensitive to nalaxone, it has a much, much shorter half-life than bupe, so it would wearoff in 45-90 minutes, versus bupe itself lasting several hours at worst.

I hate to say all of this, because I ultimately agree with thecaptain, if it works for you, have at it. But in this case what you are saying is blatantly false; nalaxone makes no difference, and,even if it does(which I have acknowledged efore it may in some people) it would wear off almost instantly.

So most of that is in your head, and people reading, there is no pont in removing nalaxone from suboxone, even via the IV route, and much less any other MOA(sublingual/nasal)

However one reason it may be stronger is because, if you actually managed to isolate the 8mg, then it would b able to absorb better in your nose with less filler. But "stupid nalaxone" is not to blame at all for your pain...