Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v3; 2010 - 2022

[SubDude]

^ I find the same thing true with low dose subs and oxys,,, once or twice a month. Including the individual part which applys to everything with opiates.

WD"s are pretty much unavoidable regardless of your strategy [other than a few claims here] It's the severity and duration which you can help yourself with depending on alot of variables.

Hdouble's basic method is sound... I do suggest some minimal comfort meds after you drop...

Here's a quick list to choose from:

CAUTIOUSLY- Klonapin/Valium - sleep/anxiety
Clonadine- RLS- sleep
Loperimide- Immodium AD
CAUTIOUSLY- Tramadol/Ultram
Soma- Sleep
Neurontin or Gabapentin- RLS
Requip- RLS
Phenegren
Aleve
CAUTIOUSLY-Kratom
Kava Kava
Chicken Soup
Warm Clothes
Hot-tub/Hot baths
Ensure/Gatorade/water
exercise

 

[DaveTripper]

Another Suboxone Question..

So I've searched and read about the length of time you should wait after taking suboxone in order to feel an opiate high again, and came to the conclusion of 76-92 hours.. but I also have another question.

Let's say I took my last dose of suboxone on a saturday (4mg) and decided to try and get high off some vicodin on Monday in the form of four 7.5's (low dose, I know), would this delay the amount of time it takes my receptors to release the suboxone? Because on Wednesday, I snorted one 30mg Roxy before class, and then 2 more about 4 hours later before a concert, and while I did feel ALRIGHT, it didn't feel anywhere close to how it used to feel before I started taking the suboxone. So I'm thinking maybe the Vicodin kept the suboxone from leaving my receptors or something like that... lol I'm no expert.

On the other hand, this could just be a tolerance issue, as I've been taking the Suboxone for almost a month, taking 2 days off a week. I tried another roxy on Thursday, but I only felt it for about an hour.

Whatever input you guys have would be much appreciated, thank yah.

 

[amapola]

Let's say I took my last dose of suboxone on a saturday (4mg) and decided to try and get high off some vicodin on Monday in the form of four 7.5's (low dose, I know), would this delay the amount of time it takes my receptors to release the suboxone?

No it doesn't work that way. The reason you didn't get as high on Wednesday was almost assuredly because of tolerance built up by the bupe.

I'll merge this into the Suboxone mega thread now so others can give their feedback on tolerance etc.

 

[BrokedownPalace]

Dear Amapola -

Merge=Fail

I shall clean up your dirty dishes

Anyways the reason you most certainly did not get high was because of the dose of bupe you are taking, is way to high for your habit. When I was shooting 10bags of NJ Heroin a day I could take 4 mg bupe and be alright.

For a few roxi's, you need like 1-2mg a day MAX I would say. With bupe, less is more. With a lower dose more norbuprenephorine can metabolise which is the desirable metabolite that gets you feeling almost "high" from you sub dose. Bupe doesn't start fully blocking the receptors until at least 8mg in my experience.

I would routinely take 4mg bupe in the morning, then go out that afternoon and do a fat shot of dope and feel it just fine. Taper your bupe dose down, all it has done is made your tolerance go UP.. not DOWN.

--> Mergarino

 

[a5l6o5n2]

Hi, I have a question I need to ask regarding bupe. I usually take my subutex 4mgs in the morning and another 4mgs around 18:00. Sometimes I just take the entire 8mgs dose in the mornings. I'm trying to figure out what's more effective. If I take just the entire dose in the morning I feel as if it doesn't really cover me for the whole day. Not that I get physical withdrawals later on but I just start feeling restless. If i split my dose up I feel as if the second dose sort of cancels the other one out per say. It's hard to describe but when I redose it's feels as if it blocks my morning dose first and then just the afternoon one kicks in. For about 15-30 minutes I have much more bowel movements, my pupils dilate a bit and that restless feeling returns. It's like very mild withdrawals. So could it be that the second dose I take, instead of just purely adding on to my first dose cancels it to a degree? Is redosing with subutex ineffective or is it just all in my head?

 

[Znegative]

that's very strange, how long have you been on subutex? I ask because I sometimes feel the same way after the first 2-3 days after switching over from full agonists, but then again, I was always banging my suboxone so I figured it had to do with the sudden rush of the buprenorphine and perhaps the still dwindling ammount of heroin left on my receptors.

If you've been on subutex over a month I think it's probably in your head. However if you're like me (you metabolize bupe quickly)then it's possible that your just experiencing what happens when you dose too much on suboxone, which kind of depletes that energetic feeling or buzz that lower doses give you. But that should not affect your bowel movements other than giving you horrific constipation.

on another note, I've recently got a script for gabapentin, and for all of you on suboxone I highly reccomend it. I know that alot of people don't get much effect out of it, but I feel when mixed with buprenorphine it almost does the impossible, which is, it gives you almost a true full agonist effect. When i say that I dont mean it lightly either. Throughout all my time on buprenorphine and methadone I've tried to find the secret chemical combination that would give me and oxy or dope like effect. Usually I would do it with benzo's and amphetamines in different preportions, but I never felt as if that really compared. Gabapentin however (and I'm sure lyrica is even better) really comes close to creating this effect. It gives that stimulating oxy feel in reasonable dosages, and then it leads you off with true opiate nods. (when I say that I dont mean pass out like you do on too much xanax, I mean your head goes down, down, down, and then you jerk awake before you hit the table, and if your holding anything you keep dropping it.) I truly do condone this medication, I'm sure i'm not the first to have this revelation, but I just want to stress it. It's an easy script, and from what I hear, there is no cross tolerance, even between it and lyrica (though that could be untrue, I actually read that on a BL thread)

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

^I've noticed that buprenorphine, in both higher <2mg and lower/super low (0.250 - 0.500mg) doses it doesn't affect my bowels nearly as much as the traditional (full-agonist) opiates, even in higher-than-equipotent doses for the high/WD relief I'm looking for.

What interests me is the whole less-is-more thing, because those really low dosages of buprenorphine mean more norbuprenorphine in your brain, bupe's full-agonist active metabolite, should be causing constipation but it only does to a very small degree.

That or my diet and exercise has gotten better, which I think it has, or I'm finally getting used to the GI tract effects of opiates after five years of use...who knows.

 

[Znegative]

that's strange. I know it would make sense that the lower dosages would cause constipation, but what I find is that if I do say, 2 mg sublingually a day, the dosage often is metabolized so fast that instead of constipation, I get the opposite because w/d is starting to kick in.

I've found that high dosages of bupe (16 mg) which I am currently on, gives me super constipation, and oddly enough it gives me the same buzz as lower dosages used too, and I've been stable on this dose for about 2 months. However like I said, I am also on gabapentin and clonazepam, so those do accentuate the feeling.

 

[kanyeknievel]

Just got on the program, hoping for the best and to stay clean. So far its looking goood. Feel a lot better than i normally do sober

 

[dollheart]

Ok adding some more questions to this thread, lol..I read somewhere that it is generally that it takes 4 hours per one microgram of Suboxone, as far as figuring out when you can take an opiate again and feel its effects..Is this true more or less, does anyone know? I took two MG this morning and two yesterday morning...(and ive only been on Sub for about a few days now, by the way)..I have been taking heroin (by smoking) most of the days since i started the Subs, because i have the weakest tolerance to pain and uncomfortability of anyone i know, so i try to ride it out throughout the day but i end up just feeling so crazy in my own skin that i buy a little to take the edge off of the WD. Which i also wanted to ask about: Since 2 is such a small dose, would i likely be able to feel some of the effects of the H? At this point my main priority and reasoning is to take away whatever remaining symptoms i have, but of course if I can catch a high all the while, i would love to..otherwise its almost a waste of money in a sense. but not completely. It always makes me feel all the way better, but only halfway high and only some of the times. I dont want to keep maintaining by having to do both! either route is expensive so i'd be really screwing myself by having to double the cost! Which brings me to the MOST important question- How long does it take for Bupe to build up in your system enough to feel completely well again? I know most SSRI anti-depressants take 2 weeks and they say to not discontinue or get discouraged anytime before that because it has not reached its fullest potential yet- can the same be said with Bupe? I am only on 2 or 4 mg per day but I usually have always been a lightweight and also, the first day i took like 8 and then got up to 16 and STILL i felt somewhat sick! So my cravings have been the most intense they've ever been and when added to withdrawal, recipe for failure..So when can i expect this to really work for me? I dont want to give up early and I want to give it a chance, but how long should i give it a chance for? Thanks!

 

[Pegasus]

^There are no hard rules like you're describing when it comes to Suboxone... For example, 4 hours per mg, how many hours until you feel completely well, what dose is best to take... All of these have the variable of your personal chemistry and needs.

The "less is more" idea is that the doses prescribed normally are very high, and the side effects at this level outweigh the opiate effects of the drug. For most people that have experimented with their dose, doses of 1-4mg are almost always sufficient, usually 2mg or less in fact. Bupe can help some people with their cravings, but others find the effects too mild after a few weeks of dosing and still get considerable cravings. To satisfy cravings effectively, many people break up their total dose throughout the day, giving multiple sub 1mg doses (some snort their dose as well). Even in these scenarios, the effects are described as mild by most after the honeymoon phase has passed.

If you can't find a way to hold your cravings with bupe, maybe something like kratom could work well for you? It is very good specifically for cravings. If you feel you need a very intensive opiate maintenance, methadone is an option, but it should probably be viewed as more of a last resort as it has definite drawbacks.

Good luck, and feel free to ask any other questions.

 

[oc captain]

Checking in for the first time

Hey all, I've been reading these forums for about 2 years now but I've never registered. I decided to finally register.

I was addicted to Hydros, Oxys, and OC's for 5 years. At one point up to 500mg a day (via OC 80s). I started my Sub treatment about a year and a half ago and I've been clean ever since. I started at 16mg/day and I'm down to 4mg/day. I've been steady at 4mg a day for about 4-5 months now and for some odd reason I haven't been able to go below that. The only time I'm able to go below 4mg is when I'm running out and I'm afraid I won't make my doctor's appointment (I can't imagine going a full day without Subs with my full time job, etc).

Since I initially quit I've had 10 OC 80's in my dresser, and they're still there. I don't plan on using them but the thought crosses my mind from time to time.
I know its not the best idea but I've always been the type of person where I try to have "backups", "just in case".

What this post is truly about is trying to get below 4mg a day. Whenever I try I always seem to get hot/cold flashes (some signs of WD). Any thoughts, tips or tricks to tapering?


Thanks

 

[oc captain]

I'd also like to mention that Subs have been a god-sent to me. I was spending $500-1000 every two weeks and when I started it felt like this huge weight had been lifted off my shoulders, I felt normal again.

 

[Pegasus]

^It's a pain... I get the same symptom you do and it is unpleasant for sure! My advice is this: The lower your dose, the slower you have to taper. Theoretically, the ceiling dose of bupe in some individuals could be 4-8mg or so, but even if that isn't the case for you, those extra milligrams were certainly easier to get rid of than these "core" milligrams are.

 

[oc captain]

Yeah I went from 16mg to 8mg in 6 months, then 8mg to 4mg in 6-8 months. I just can't get past 4mg. It's not a huge issue because my doctor is really nice and respects my decision to get off OC's and he has no problem sticking with the 4mg until I'm ready. I usually wait until 11am-noon before I take 2mg, then take another 2mg around 3-4pm.

 

[dollheart]

Pegasus- thanks for the info! its a weird thing for me, not knowing a lot about something drug related- i know as much as one can possibly know about opiates without actually being a doctor (haha) but when it comes to Suboxone, i know very little so to speak, just the general stuff. Ive been hearing about this ceiling effect so because of that and also for not wanting to add to expense or dependence, been trying to keep it really low, like 2mg per day. I havent broken it up into two different times of day like you suggested, but the RX label on mine actually says to do so- but then again, it also says take 8mg twice a day, which seems insanely high to me. I was on methadone before this and made the switch (GOD was that hard!) and i was doing great on only 25 mg of methadone. Most people in the clinics are on 100 or way more, i have never needed more than 60 mg and even at that mg, i was so tired and buzzed I could barely function. Thats one of the many reasons i wanted to switch. I know most people would probably think that given my ability to maintain on such small dosages of everything, i should have a relatively minor case of W/D and maybe compared to a lot of people, it may be true- but i also have the least ability to deal with it i mean i still cry getting blood taken, to put things into perspective! haha. i know i am a wimp, not afraid to admit it, and i dont even care, thats just the way i am unfortunately so... I am afraid to get hooked onto Suboxone just like anything else, i've heard its BAD maybe even the worst. I was considering the Kratom route when I get down to the tail-end of Sub taper, i just hope it works ENOUGH- because so far even the bupe isn't really taking all the W/D away. Getting worried and discouraged, if i can't get through the W/D I don't know how i will ever be free. It's really starting to make me panic lately..so I will try anything! Hopefully kratom can really help me!

 

[Znegative]

dollheart, if youve only been on subs for a few days, and only been taking 2 mg a day, YOU WILL GET HIGH. believe me on that. I can get high after a few days of induction, even when taking up to 16 mg /day.

 

[Znegative]

TO OC Captain,
I can relate to your struggle.
I got out of a detox this january from a bundle a day heroin habbit and for benzo's. I was put back on suboxone, but I demanded a low dosage (this was after a methadone taper, which is better for tapering for me, but worse for maintenance). I demanded to be put on a low dose, 2mg 2x a day. After a few weeks I couldn't even put up with 4mg a day, and I just bumped it up to 16 like an asshole. lowering subs from the 8-4 range down is real hard

 

[grizz88]

^^ Or you could be as lucky as I am to be sensitive enough to the shit that I'm still experience acute w/d symptoms 7-8 weeks after the fact.

amen. dude fuck these W/Ds i still get headaches i never had before using subs and i wake up 4 mornings of the week sort of anxious with a little bit of perspiration. have givin it exercise, time, non opiate drugs (minimal xanax usage probably had 4 mg over the last 5 weeks)

 

[dollheart]

Bought some bags today and since I only took 2 mg of Suboxone all the way at 8 am yesterday (so its been about 30 hours since i last took it) i am feeling the H fully..well i got a good enough amount that it is for sure going to last me the rest of today and most likely all of tomorrow..so of course i dont want to take my Subs cuz it would waste BOTH the H and suboxone and both are quite expensive! but i also want to keep the suboxone building in my system so that when i stop the H, it will go right back to working..Lately when I have been doing the H while on Subs, i get high about 24-36 hours after my last dose, then when i finish my bags, i just resume the sub like it never even happened and so far this has never been a problem for me, never sent me into precipitated withdrawals..but this time, since by tomorrow it will have been 48 hours since my last Sub, i am wondering if i do my usual plan of taking it right after i'm done, will it make me sick this time? I mean 24 hours is no big deal to go without the sub i think and you can just resume, but anyone know about if you have waited longer than that? I really, reallyyyy want to avoid having to wait the 24 hours before resuming my usual suboxone routine, but since i will have gone 48 hours, wont i kind of HAVE to? And if i do take it anyway and do get the precip W/D, how long does that last and can anything be done about it? This bundle i have right now is going to be my last for a good while and i'm gonna just stick to subs, the whole idea of even getting any was to ease the residual symptoms that sub isnt helping, just while it builds up in my system and i adapt to it..but this is it for a long time. so, I really need to know, so please tell me whatever you know, thanks so much!