Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[Captain.Heroin]

Please be aware...

JamesBrown

I'm going to redirect you to a thread in The Dark Side I created for James, if you would like to continue talking about your brother. I am sorry that he is sick, but this is not the proper thread to discuss it in.

Thank you.

hey guys, ive been a 4 year opiate head, shot up for the last three months . then i decided to get on suboxone. they started me at 16mg a day then to 20mg a day, i was like wtf. i kept myself at 16mg. then the last 4 days i just took 8 mg and was fine but still had some urges. and i ended up smoking some H 3 days ago. havent touched it since. but now im taking 12mg a day. i was wondering what your opinion on my situation would be . should i wean down some? or stay at this level. or just get the fuck off suboxone? it makes me pretty damn irritable hahah. but it keeps my cravings at bay.

Try to get down to 8mg per day if you can.

Stay on Suboxone if you are still going to have cravings. If you're not sure, just taper down slowly and comfortably.

Let us know what you feel like around 6mg to 8mg per day, and take your time with it.

Back to suboxone! For awhile anyways. Day 1 is always rough. I'm so sleepy

Yeah, I am always sleepy when coming off of any opiate (buprenorphine included). Welcome back to the bupe wagon!

Ive been trying to get off oxy about 200 mg shooting a day for a year and a half (just started shooting about three months ago) along with a pseudo benzo addiction on again off again every few days using for the past 8 months. For the past three weeks I've been taking suboxone about 1 mg per day. Should I expect some withdrawal for taking it so long? If so how long?

I would expect some withdrawals, but not intense/extreme in any way. They might go on for a few weeks or less depending on everything.

Benzos can complicate the situation though.

I think my dealer is loosing his constant supply to Oxy's so I may be on Suboxone permanently, not by choice. Kind of sucks, but I've slowly seen this coming. He used to have tons avail , all the time. Then it was only once a week, now it's been once every other. Just a bummer, guess I'm not ready to quit. But glad I have suboxone at least

It happens. I've lost worst connects before

why hello fellow blue lighters... it is my 5th day on 1 mg...and it couldn't be going better! I feel great, i even notice a difference between 2mg and 1mg.....

on the downside....i am starting to drink heavily everyday again.....

That's awesome! Sorry to hear about drinking heavily again though. I hate drinking so it's easy for me to stay away from it. Maybe you could let someone else hold onto your stuff and only give you 1 or 2 drinks per day max?

well, I plan on quitting my buprenorphine, or at least trying to for a while. My insurance no longer covers them, and I'm constantly switching back and fourth between dope anyway, and I'm honestly tired of being addicted to something that doesn't even get me high. I'm stocking up on benzo's tomorow, gonna begin a two week taper.

Good luck man! If I wasn't getting high off of buprenorphine I'd quit using it too.

Let us know how it works out for you.

 

[Suboxone]

Day 3 without Subutex. Currently using Compazine (Prochlorperazine), Neurontin (Gabapentin), Lyrica (Pregabalin), Ultram (Tramadol) and Relafen (Nabumetone) to combat withdrawal symptoms.

All I feel at this point is a mild headache/hangover from taking all of them at once before I went to sleep. 600mg of Lyrica will put even the biggest addicts in a coma

Still no negative withdrawal effects aside from increased pain, which may just be from lack of bupe's pain relief and not withdrawal. Maybe my doctor was right, jumping off at 2mg should leave me with nearly no withdrawal symptoms. I don't feel much different mentally or physically.

 

[Comrade Kane]

Does anyone know a good anti depressant or other chem to go with suboxone.
Currently I take 30mg escitalopram (spelling?) to help keep the high/good feeling chemicals in my brain produced from 9mg of suboxone, each day, its OK, but could be better.
Are there better antidepressants to boost sub?

 

[Suboxone]

Does anyone know a good anti depressant or other chem to go with suboxone.
Currently I take 30mg escitalopram (spelling?) to help keep the high/good feeling chemicals in my brain produced from 9mg of suboxone, each day, its OK, but could be better.
Are there better antidepressants to boost sub?

Ultram and/or Lyrica/Neurontin mix quite well with subs.

 

[Comrade Kane]

^^ thanks, Capn I'll wiki them now, If good I'll ask my doc for them.

 

[Comrade Kane]

Ultram otherwise known as tramadol, an opiate.... ah ahh a I doubt my sub doc would give me another opiate, anyways I thought subs stop other opiates working.
Neurontin is interesting though, I like how it is used to prevent cravings in users of coke/meth and even the opiate group.
My thinking about this is that sub makes feel good chems swirling around my neurons, why not take another chemical that stops those good chems from going away. The drugs with the most potential for that would seem to be anti-depressants?
I have already tried an ancient anti-depresant gave me heart palps and felt like shit, switched now I'm taking escitalopram/loxamate, is good at 30mg.
It has a weird effect that even if I try, I cannot make myself think/feel bad. I try to feel sad, that part of me has stopped working, its great. Now I dont even worry about things anymore, its like I can just walk around all day on sub and anti-deps, and I dont have to feel the bad things!
But what feel good chems does sub actualy produce, and what anti-dep would fit that chemical?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Buprenorphine activates mu-opioid receptors, and antagonizes the kappa opioid receptors, as well of a variety of other receptors in the brain.

No antidepressant is going to act similarly to buprenorphine.

 

[Suboxone]

Ultram otherwise known as tramadol, an opiate.... ah ahh a I doubt my sub doc would give me another opiate, anyways I thought subs stop other opiates working.

Ultram is non-narcotic, a "quasi-opiate" which is used to relieve moderate to severe pain. It is very easy to get from a doctor, especially in the Ultracet (with tylenol) form. If you have any sort of pain condition, even things like a sprained ankle/wrist, your doctor will likely prescribe it if you ask specifically for it. My old doctor would give out Percocet for the smallest injuries, so Ultram was very very easy to get when he found out I was an addict and couldn't take real opiates. It has a very mild high, but mixed with Subutex it gives me a pretty good high.

I have also been clean for a year and a half and have built trust with my doctor, that may be a reason he is giving me drugs which have the potential for abuse. Don't get me wrong, I don't abuse my meds... I take Ultram and Subutex as prescribed but it yields a pretty euphoric result.

 

[Pegasus]

I think that's a big trap, dude. Since jumping off, I've just been craving *something* to replace the opiate downer feeling. I've had a few drinks but I've been drinking way less than when I was on the Suboxone. I think that's one benefit of kicking at 1mg instead of going down another couple of dose levels; I've been feeling too shitty to drink much at all plus I need a hangover like a bullet in the head at this point.

As for my progress: I'm now almost 72 hours clean from sub. I still haven't had a lot of the 'classic' WD symptoms. There's a bit of nausea but I haven't been throwing up. Small hits of weed have really helped with the nausea. The worse thing is that the clonodine makes me feel like a fucking zombie. I think I'll drop my clonodine dose from now. I'm also pretty backed-up from the immodium so might drop that as well to stop the stomach pains.

I've also had absolutely no appetite whatsoever. I've literally been eating 1 banana a day for since I stepped off the sub. I can't even contemplate the thought of eating a 'real' meal. At least I'm probably dropping a few kilos.
!

Yeah, 72 hours will be just the beginning of the issue. I find that it gets to it's worst point around day 6 or 7, and stays at that level for like the next week. I have come off of Suboxone relatively hard two times, and once with a complete taper, and the difference is huge. If you've recently lowered your dose just before dropping off, or if you jumped from a pretty high dose, it will be many times worse than jumping from an ideal dose (~0.3 every other day, or every third day, etc)...



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Kratom is definitely worth looking into for having something around to fill the void left by opiates. It is an opioid actually, but much milder and much less addicting (stay to the leaves, something like 7-OHM is definitely pretty addicting). Around 8 grams or so (whatever you can stomach) is actually a decently high dose that can fully substitute for decent doses of bupe, oxy or hydrocodone, and other opiates as well, though I find kratom is most like those that I listed. Kratom was called "the cure for opiate addiction" as early as the late 1800's, and to this day is still probably the most ideal substance for tapering off of opiates. Dihydrocodeine is pretty good too, especially if you're having to suddenly stop a large dose of a very potent opiate, but it is certainly more addicting than kratom.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Interesting information about kratom; thanks for sharing Pegasus!

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

i used to love kratom when my tolerance was low.. actually my tolerance could be low again from being on a low dose of bupe, i just haven't tried any opiates so i don't know what it is other than 1-2mg suboxone lol.. anyways... i always thought that red vein strains are the best and most sedating instead of stimulating, feeling more like an opiate.
figured i would share what i thought.. i have always wondered if you can use kratom on bupe like you can tramadol (which i do) but i have never got a definite answer about it and don't feel like wasting my money on it if it won't do anything. anyone know if it does work along with bupe? or is it blocked?
i always dosed around 10 grams at a time and thought it was a great drug to fill in when you can't get your DOC, to stave off w/d's.
Pegasus is right about using it to fill the "void".
%)

 

[SubDude]

I've decided to drop to .75mg for a week or two and then back to .50mg which is where I was earlier in the year. I haven't decided if I'm gonna take another shot at quitting yet. I've most always taken my subs dose SL... so when I get down to .50mg I guess I will actually be getting aroung .15-.20mg into my system. That seems pretty low but when I tried to quit last time from about .25-.30mg SL which I guess is about .10mg effects. I still felt the acutes strongly. I don't know??? This is a strange drug for long term addicts.

I guess thats why CH can get such good effects IV with miniscule doses... Does anyone have a guess what 150-200mcg subs which equal in Oxycodone or methadone?

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

wiki says .25mg is = to 10mg morphine.

this might help (if it's correct) : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opiate_comparison

 

[*=Regulator=*]

Yeah, 72 hours will be just the beginning of the issue. I find that it gets to it's worst point around day 6 or 7, and stays at that level for like the next week. I have come off of Suboxone relatively hard two times, and once with a complete taper, and the difference is huge. If you've recently lowered your dose just before dropping off, or if you jumped from a pretty high dose, it will be many times worse than jumping from an ideal dose (~0.3 every other day, or every third day, etc)...



....



Kratom is definitely worth looking into for having something around to fill the void left by opiates. It is an opioid actually, but much milder and much less addicting (stay to the leaves, something like 7-OHM is definitely pretty addicting). Around 8 grams or so (whatever you can stomach) is actually a decently high dose that can fully substitute for decent doses of bupe, oxy or hydrocodone, and other opiates as well, though I find kratom is most like those that I listed. Kratom was called "the cure for opiate addiction" as early as the late 1800's, and to this day is still probably the most ideal substance for tapering off of opiates. Dihydrocodeine is pretty good too, especially if you're having to suddenly stop a large dose of a very potent opiate, but it is certainly more addicting than kratom.

Thanks for this info. Pegasus.

As for my progress, I'm now into about hour 100 now (got a bit mixed up before about hours) after stepping off at 1mg and actually feel a lot better than yesterday. I'm not sure if it's a slight re-adjustment of my meds - I'm taking less clonodine because it was fucking up my blood pressure and making me feel like a zombie - but sleeping's been a bit easier, there's been less nausea although I'm still intermittently having diarrhea.

I don't know. I understand it goes against the conventional wisdom here but yesterday felt a bit better than the day before and today feels a bit better than yesterday. Maybe it's just my refusal to accept that I'm going to cop these WDs hard that's doing the job! :D

Regarding Kratom: I just had a quick scan online and it's a controlled substance in Australia. I couldn't find out whether or not it's available through prescription. Does anyone know? Does anyone know if you can get the shit at head shops or herbal stores (doubtful)? If I don't hear back I'll ask my doc about it when I see him on Friday.

I appreciate that it (Kratom) may work well as a substitute dose for tapering but is it just another substance that I could end up addicted to?

Well, thanks for the advice and good luck to everyone else.

 

[JamtasticX]

To the person talking about bupe and anti--depressants and "feel good chemicals", unfortunately you're way off.

Bupe, and other opiates, are binding to receptors in the endorphin system. Anti-depressants, commonly SSRI's or SNRI's work by increasing the amount of serotonin or norephinephrin, completely different systems. Whereas stimulants, such as adderall, increase the amount of dopamine, which is yet another different system.


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Captain Heroin:

I was wondering this, and it's not a drug test question, btw.

I get drug tested by my Dr, so levels are important. So if I were to ever shoot it and go down to low doses, I'd have to jump back up to high doses, 4-6mg/day, in order to have the appropiate levels.

Have you ever jumped from a really low dose to a much larger dose (comparatively). I would imagine that it would be the same as jumping from say 8 to 32 (although many times more than 4x). I would imagine that it should be easy, and almost the same concept, with no noticeable differences (aside from losing the jam aspect), but it would be good to hear from someone who had experience.

 

[love2party]

^I think opiates affect more than the endorphin system, if not directly peripherally.

 

[JamtasticX]

^I think opiates affect more than the endorphin system, if not directly peripherally.

Only speaking in direct binding opiates don't affect other systems. If they have effects indirectly then it would be similar to placebo, however, taking anti-depressants still wouldn't increase the duration/potentation of the sub.

 

[axe battler]

Has norbuprenorphine got the same, less, or a higher affinity as bupe?

I just ask cause I'm curious as to how often I can take my small (.75mg) doses and still feel euphoria.

 

[JamtasticX]

Has norbuprenorphine got the same, less, or a higher affinity as bupe?

I just ask cause I'm curious as to how often I can take my small (.75mg) doses and still feel euphoria.

The demethalation metabolite of bupreorphine, nor-bupe, is less affinitive towards opiod receptors than the non-metabolite.

If the n-form was stronger it would either not work for it's purpose of being a partial agonist/antagonist, or it would have to be taken in conjunction with something that would inhibit cyp3a4, preventing bupe from turning into nor-bupe, which would also be dangerous and make little sense.

 

[SkagKush]

^ yup. that is correct, i have nothing to add on that topic.....

1mg again today of bupe....i am so very surprised how well 1mg is working.....i knew it would, but i was hesitant to make the drop, even though all other drops went well....my doc thinks i will be on BMT for a good while, i know its possible.....but im not sure staying so low for so long is the best idea (over a year)....although i will stay on it for a few more months, i have been on for two and a half months by now, and have 40 8mg tabs stashed....

edit...i wonder if i am even being tested for bupe, if not i could just stay on BMT and collect monthly scripts.... (in the future)

mods.... i dont believe thats a UA question, if so i will delete....