Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[JamtasticX]

you say you want to switch to the strips?

im just curious, what appeals you to them so much that you want to switch over? is it the fact its easier to dissolve in your mouth?

im just wondering what peoples opinions are on the new formulation

Well I sniff the pills now, because of increased b/a, but assuming I was still taking them orally:
1)They taste horrible, it's the weirdest fake orange taste. If they really wanted to help addicts they should make it taste like dope 8) but seriously, ever been to the dentist? They have like 14 flavors of flouride, your telling me they cant come up with something better.

2)If you crush up a pill and put it under your tongue its not that bad due to surface area, but put a whole pill, or god imagine people who do more, it takes like an hour to dissolve. Maybe its just me, but the pill info+dr's say it dissolves quickly, but keeping that under my tongue for an hour, nasty.

In theory I should just be able to put a strip up my nose and have the same effect, not sure until I read the papers on it. I would also assume you should still be able to inject it.

 

[SkagKush]

chickened out, 4mg today

 

[amanitadine]

I dont know.....the fact that I and many other people who actually correctly attempt the suboxone dosing methods I have mentioned experience these beneficial effects is fact enough for me to try to tell people to attempt it. I never stated that it is a fact that everyone who does it will get high like me and mthe many other people who do. The only things Ive claimed as facts are the binding affinities of bupe and norbupe.....nothing else. I then go on to say that I feel high as a result of a manipulation of my dose levels in the correct fashion, time periods, etc....you would think that the FACT that bupe is ONLY made in "painkiller form" as Tamgesic in doses of 0.2-0.4 mg's is enough evidence to support what im saying but some people like to play devils advocate. And thats fine, but just because they dont want to believe somehting doesnt make it false.

Also.....amanitadine has been consistently trying to accuse me of spreading false information for soem reason alot lately. Im not sure why. Like I said above, I only claim the binding affinities of these drugs as facts, everything else is just personal experience. And that is all that is needed to tell someone to give it a try because they very well may get euphoria from suboxone as well. Just like someone telling someone else how much oxy to take on there first try to get them high.....it isnt a FACT that the dose you tell them to take will do anythign to them, its just coming from your experience, and the experience of others....yet people everyday on BL are giving that same advice to people all the time. But for some reason he chose me to bitch to about giving advice in hopes of bettering peoples lives. Amanitadine needs to re-read what I stated as fact, because I think hes a little off base.

^^ whoa, slow down.....I am not trying to discredit you, I am only urging a little thought and restraint before you post. 1,500 posts in 3 months is alot and gets tiresome, especially when the content is put forth as fact. I am just trying to re-itterate that this whole bupe/nor-bupe/less is more is still only just a theory, and a theory with a lot of holes in it. This isnt directed only at you james, and i apologise if it was taken personal. It just gets frustrating...

 

[PillPoppingAnimal]

I hear people talking about slashing there suboxone up into tiny tiny peaces while tapering down. how small of doses do i have maintain before i could get off of subs completely? (with out any WD of coarse.)

from what ive read, it sounds like very very tiny peaces, like smaller than 1/8 of a sub = .5mg right?

whats the deal with these fucking things. why are they so hard to get off of. it sounds ridiculous to have to keep breaking up my suboxone into such tiny peaces. im thinking it would just be easier to wean off of opiates?

idk what u think..

but suboxone is an opiate...very strong one at that

 

[Uber_Penguin]

Hey ppl, I just wanted to real quick check in here and say that I got back from the pharmacy a few hours ago with the new strips, I'm not sure if anyone else has tried em and weighed in, but I know they're fairly new, so I'll throw my first impressions out there.

I'll say one thing was good...the taste was severely diminished, an 8 mg strip just dissolved with not much of an issue, I didn't have much of a chance to taste it. Hell, I didn't even need run and find something to drink to get the taste out of my mouth afterward. Plus there wasn't the horrible mouth-full-of-spit issue that I have taking normal subs, even in smaller doses, and this was a full 8 mg strip. So as far as ease of taking it at least it's much better.

They each come in a separate little strip package that you need to open individually which I hope won't become a pain.

As far as effects go they seem to happen quicker, but I'm not too much of an expert on gauging any difference in effect as I've only been on subs for 2 weeks, but the effects certainly don't seem diminished at least

Edit: Oh, and I did think on ppl who snort subs, as I have a friend who's really obsessed with snorting, and anytime he takes just about any pill he wants to snort it. Fortunately he really doesn't have tolerance, so he requires like, a shred of a normal pill, which brings me to two issues with the new strips...
1) it used to just require breaking a piece of sub off or hitting it with a pill cutter to get a smaller dose for myself or rarely others, I'm a little wary as to how effective trying to tear a strip up will be, maybe scissors will be the best bet? With minor experimentation it seems that the strips like to stretch, and it's just a little rectangle...the old suboxone shape was pretty conducive to accurate separation. I just tried using scissors on my "experiment strip", and found that it does, in fact, cut easily and doesn't get all gummy or anything, so that may be the best way to get off smaller pieces.

2) For people who snort theirs, which I do on occasion, I'm not sure how one would go about doing so with these new strips. Maybe if you like, hacked the strip up into really tiny pieces using a razor or scissors you could get it into basically teeny tiny strips that one could snort up their nose, but honestly I get the feeling that somehow that won't work all that well, or be nearly as appealing. I hope that isn't the case.

And one last thing I'd like to add, something that occurred to me even before I got the strips...it seems that one of the goals of prescribing suboxone is to stop ppl from IVing, especially when anyone in the medical/pharmaceutical fields still live in their deluded little world where IVing suboxone doesn't work. The company seems to push it too.
But now, I'm willing to bet that dissolving these strips for injection is going to be far, far easier. On the other hand, I really hope that the fact that they do dissolve so easily and completely means that they'll be much more healthy for injecting users who don't use proper filtration (micron filters, w/e). I've personally never IVed any pills, only ever dope for a little bit, but I could see this possibly being a move on the company's part to reduce harm associated with injecting their old suboxone formulation. Once again, I have little experience with IV and certainly can't say for sure the strips will be any easier or safer, but I hope and expect that they will be (sorry, I do have syringes around, but that's one experiment I'm going to avoid).

 

[Jabberwocky]

idk what u think..

but suboxone is an opiate...very strong one at that

i mean an opiate that isnt going to be in my system for 3,1/2 years. like vicodin, perks, or small pieces of roxis.

im thinking about it, and i dont think i would have to cut roxis into 80 little pieces to get off of them. so its rediculous that im going to have to with suboxone. am i wrong? would it also be necesary to chop up a roxi into 80 pieces to wean off of them?

 

[DkBlaze1]

No. I don't believe so...

Me and the doc were talking about how they came out with the film strips because there patent is up on the suboxone pills.they came out with the film strips to keep their grip on the market... by offering a better alternative to the suboxone pills... my doctor said that the generic SUBOXONE not subutex pills are out.
Sorry if I don't make sense I'm spun and posting from my cell phone.

I was telling you, that you are wrong... There is no Generic SUBOXONE only Generic SUBUTEX... If YOu think im wrong look it up im not wrong.. And if i am pleaase tell me the numbers found on the generic suboxone and its color and shape so i can look it up on pill Id.. anyway the Generic SUBUTEX are white circles with 54 ontop of 411,.. I know theres this pill seeing as I have 80 in front of me haha.,..but like I said there is no generic suboxone and there wont be for another ten years.. this change tooo films made it soo they could extend there patent for that long .....

 

[Captain.Heroin]

No. I don't believe so...

Me and the doc were talking about how they came out with the film strips because there patent is up on the suboxone pills.they came out with the film strips to keep their grip on the market... by offering a better alternative to the suboxone pills... my doctor said that the generic SUBOXONE not subutex pills are out.
Sorry if I don't make sense I'm spun and posting from my cell phone.

Well, your doctor is incorrect. This shouldn't come as a surprise to you.

Suboxone film is a brand name product. The patent on Suboxone (tablets) is over, meaning other companies can manufacture generic versions of Suboxone if they so choose (no one has bothered doing this).

There is only generic versions of the Subutex tablets available.

This is also why Bluelight members have reported that the Suboxone tablets and Suboxone sublingual strips cost the exact same amount of money (with the only exception being that there are coupons on the Suboxone film strips for the next 6 months). Other than this, it's still R&B making both products, and R&B is still charging the same amount for both products (which renders pharmacies charging you the same price for both products).

 

[JamtasticX]

Well, your doctor is incorrect. This shouldn't come as a surprise to you.

Suboxone film is a brand name product. The patent on Suboxone (tablets) is over, meaning other companies can manufacture generic versions of Suboxone if they so choose (no one has bothered doing this).

There is only generic versions of the Subutex tablets available.

This is also why Bluelight members have reported that the Suboxone tablets and Suboxone sublingual strips cost the exact same amount of money (with the only exception being that there are coupons on the Suboxone film strips for the next 6 months). Other than this, it's still R&B making both products, and R&B is still charging the same amount for both products (which renders pharmacies charging you the same price for both products).

exactly correct

It's funny the "here to help program" ran by R&B sent me an e-mail pushing the strips, funny stuff.

I'm wondering has anyone put the strips in their nose? I'm assuming that it would be the same as sniffing a pill. However, I have thought that the b/a was increased because a lot of bupe is swallowed, so how do you think the b/a would compare? Overall I think putting the strip in the nose should give the same dose and effect as sniffing the pill? Anyone help me out on this? I'd like to mention the strips, but only if this method is correct.

 

[jamesBrown]

^^ whoa, slow down.....I am not trying to discredit you, I am only urging a little thought and restraint before you post. 1,500 posts in 3 months is alot and gets tiresome, especially when the content is put forth as fact. I am just trying to re-itterate that this whole bupe/nor-bupe/less is more is still only just a theory, and a theory with a lot of holes in it. This isnt directed only at you james, and i apologise if it was taken personal. It just gets frustrating...

My point was that nothing has been presented as fact that isnt fact. The only facts that have been talked about as such, are the binding affinities of bupe and norbupe. Thats it. I was merely showing that all this "crazy suboxone shit" hasnt been presented as fact as you are implying.

 

[SkagKush]

boys boys settle. . . time period and shit, he still got more posts than you........

 

[Covert]

thanks for the reply, man.

I hope I'll never have need for a stockpile of subs, but yeah, after reading up on them, I thought that 24mg/day seemed like an awful lot to be taking!

The program I am in keeps you on them for anywhere from 9-15 months, but they start reducing your daily dose after the first few months. Hopefully I'll be able to taper off these and avoid the WDs...It sounds like people are only having bad withdrawal symptoms because they tried to taper off too quickly after being on a high dose for many months.

What is the recommended timeframe for this sort of treatment? My ultimate goal is to be completely free of any drug dependency.

Also, what's the deal with taking very small doses of this? I've heard that you can have increased euphoria from only talking a few mg at time, and that sublingual is the least effective ROA. I really just want to take enough to function without being sick, but I must say that I have enjoyed today more than any other day I've had in a long time! I hope I'm not setting myself up to fail by having these thoughts.

I, too was a longtime lurker. . . til earlier this week. I can only speak to you of MY OWN experience -- so here goes:

I started on about 8-12 mg a day, for about a week before i got in to see a doc; a friend of mine gave em to me. And, like you, I felt GREAT when i first started taking them, which i think is a function of both the bupe AND the fact that you SHOULD be a litte bit euphoric about getting off the regular opiates! At least i think that's why i felt so good. . .

Then, when i got to the doc, i told her what was up and she put me on 12 mg/day. I took them, as prescribed, and they worked GREAT. . . for a little while. Like maybe a month. Then, it was like the GREAT feeling wasn't as long lasting, OR as great, and the energy boost just stopped happening altogether. That's when i got on here, & found out all this great stuff about low-dosing & whatnot --ESPECIALLY the awareness that you can snort/shoot it & the nalox does NOT interfere with the bupe. So now i'm basically taking about 4-6 mg up the nose, not getting the "euphoria" that james & CH talk about, but i'm tapering down as much as i can so that hopefully i'll get down at least to the 1.5-2 mg range & start getting the full euphoric benefits.

But by all means, keep it up, man. And keep coming here to BL & telling everyone how yer doing, cuz this is without a doubt the best community of people i've come across in a LONG LONG time.

Inside joke: just stay away from typos and for god's sake don't post with a font that is brown!!! (sorry james, had to say it. . . )

 

[JamtasticX]

Still wondering if anyone has tried to put the strips up your nose, but another question.

On wed took 4mg. Thursday 2mg. Nothing Friday/Saturday. Sunday did 1 tiny shot of heroin, felt ok but not jammed, done at noon. Nothing Monday or Tuesday, and then dope on wed and got retarded did .4 to myself

Anyways, Monday morning, until Wed morning I had bad direahea, and trouble sleeping, but not much else. Wed I felt pretty much fine, and could've gone without anything.

I'm assuming that I was experinecing withdrawals from the sub/dope combo, but with subs being such a long half life, and feeling fine on Wed (about a week after last use if we ignore dope) that probably would've been the end on Wed? I wouldn't start withdrawals after 7 days right?

 

[Covert]

I was telling you, that you are wrong... There is no Generic SUBOXONE only Generic SUBUTEX... If YOu think im wrong look it up im not wrong.. And if i am pleaase tell me the numbers found on the generic suboxone and its color and shape so i can look it up on pill Id.. anyway the Generic SUBUTEX are white circles with 54 ontop of 411,.. I know theres this pill seeing as I have 80 in front of me haha.,..but like I said there is no generic suboxone and there wont be for another ten years.. this change tooo films made it soo they could extend there patent for that long .....

Hate to tell you this Blaze but you are incorrect. There is no generic "Suboxone" because no one has bothered to make it yet. . . That's why R-B is making the film: they're marketing it as a "better" way to take the bupe/nalox that they currently make, cuz obviously SOMEONE is gonna start making it soon. . .

Hopefully, they'll get on it RIGHT NOW & that way all of us who don't want the film & want to keep our pills are gonna have to get them somewhere. . . that's the best thing i can take away from this "film project" as i am calling it. . .

And one note to you Blaze: why are you so incredibly antagonistic one minute, and then totally chill & cool & apologetic the next? I just read through ALL of your posts, & it's like sometimes you post when you HAVE drugs & sometimes you post when you DON'T have drugs. And you seem to want to go after JamesBrown every chance you get, as of late. . . why don't you just ignore his posts if they bother you so much? At least HIS information would never HARM anyone. . . And, before you say it, I simply CANNOT ignore YOUR posts -- translating the typos into intelligible english is quite a fun game for writers like myself, and there is the added benefit that you might one day make up a word or sentence contstruction that i could use in a story about someone who has completely lost touch with reality. . .

 

[5StarSquatHotel]

Starting Subutex...

Thought I'd post on here as you guys seem like you know what is what and I am after some advice. I'm starting Subutex next Monday and I am shit scared to be honest! I have been on Methadone for 7 years and an addict for 10. For the past week I have not taken any Methadone and have been using a bag of gear a day as I gathered that it would be easier to start Subutex coming off gear than 20mg of Methadone, was this the right choice? I did try Subutex before but I took a dose to soon after a hit and went into instant W/D's and ended up scoring so I dont want the same to happen again. I'm very scared of going into w/d's as I always end up in hospital and once was on life support due to resperitory failure brought on by clucking so I need to know a couple of things: will it be fairly easy to get onto Subutex in regard to not clucking, how long should I wait after last using gear before taking it and how long does it take to work and make you feel better? I'm hoping to get a few Tamazepam from the docs to help but is there anything else I can buy (over the counter) that may help me? I'm in the UK by the way. Hope this all makes sense and thanks for reading!

 

[5StarSquatHotel]

Oh and what dose do you think I will need to be on and what dose will I need to take initialy?

 

[5StarSquatHotel]

Regarding taking meds to help I'm after something to stop the panic/anxiety as for me thats the worst part of w/d's.

 

[ATLL765]

You most likely will not need more than 4-8mg of Subutex at once to relieve w/d symptoms, but if you can tell us how much exactly is a "bag of gear" where you are it will help determine that. Is that .1g, .5g, 1g? It will be much easier to answer the question of how much Subutex to take if you can tell us that. Also, make sure you are in w/d for a little while before you dose with the Subutex so you can avoid precipitated w/d. If you take your Subutex sublingually as directed, it should relieve your symptoms within 15 minutes, 30 minutes max. If after 30-45 minutes, you don't feel 100%, dose with 2mg more and repeat this process until you do feel 100%

The temazepam should help, but I have hear that Clonidine is very helpful with w/d and in the U.S. it very easy to obtain from a doc, so that may be the same case in the UK. Immodium A/D is also very helpful with the physical w/d symptoms. It's an OTC antidiarrhea med that contains Loperamide, which from what I've been told is an opiate that doesn't cross the BBB, so it won't get you high, but will lessen w/d.

Good luck on getting off methadone/heroin and maintaining on Subutex and check out http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=524458 it's the Suboxone/Subutex megathread and FAQ, so there's a ton of useful info that may help you along the way.

 

[jamesBrown]

Im not sure what you mean by clucking? Could you explain that too me in more detail please so I can give you better advice.

Also....in my opinion.....I would start with a 1-2mg dose....and give it about 20 minutes to kick in. If you arent completely satisified after that, I would dose in only 1 mg incriminents every 20 minutes after that until you feel 100%. I have learned during my experience with suboxone(or subutex) that the less you take the better. Alot of doctors prescribe around 12-32 mg's/day and I think that is just too much. You can choose to do what your doctor says to do but I would atleast try the method I mentioned above and see how it works. I mean, it cant hurt, all you have to do is take more subutex if your not feelin good. But I still always reccommend you follow your doctors instructions but it seems that most doctors arent very experienced with subutex/suboxone and therefore dont prescribe it correctly most of the time.
Also, the lower the dose you take, the less side effects you will have, and the easier it will be to get off of subs in the end.
Also, if you read the suboxone megathread like ATLL suggested above(and the previous versions of suboxone megathreads) I think you will learn alot of about your options concerning how to take your medication. you will more than likely come across posts, many of them mine, that suggest taking doses of under 1 mg after you become adjusted to the subs. I reccommend this because I believe you get euphoria and energy boosts from these small doses......any higher doses simply take away your withdrawals and can even give you headaches in higher doses.

You should choose to do what YOU want to do. Its your body and your life. I just highly reccommend you do some research on this drug on Bluelight before makin any major decisions. Bupernorphine(subutex) is a very unique and interesting drug and it takes more thought and experience to use it in the most eficient and effective way for you as an individual.

Like ATLL said, make sure you are in withdrawal before you take it, this should ensure that you dont get PW's. But, since you have been taking methadone recently(even though you have switched to using "gear" recently to make the transition easier) I think you should tough it out and make sure you are in somewhat serious and intense withdrawal before taking it. Im sure you know from exerience that PW's are far more "uncomfortable" than regular withdrawals.

good luck, and feel free to ask any questions you may have.

*Also....if your not against it, I woudl also reccomend snorting the subs...it has a higher BA and kicks in faster, and in my experience, feels better. But if you shoose to stick with sublingual, then that is perfectly fine too. I IV my suboxone and get nice euphoric rushes from my low doses IV'ed. Im not necessarily condoning this activity, but if you happen to allready be an IV user, and you know how to properly and safely inject a solution made from a pill(i.e. micron filter, sterile syringe, etc....), then you might want to give that a try. the BA(bioavailablity) of IV is 100% as compared to sublingual which is only like 35% if I remember correctly.

 

[PillPoppingAnimal]

even if u do go into precip WDs, just ride it out, but u prob wont consideing only .1 H a day...

precips onl last 30 mins- 2 hours depending on how much dosing of a full ag uhad in ur system.

you are making the right dessision, i mean u dont want to be on opiates for the rest of ur life now do u?