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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

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Drug Testing in the Suboxone based ORT Medical Field

I was tested one time and one time only, the first time I went to my doctor so he could make sure I was actually on the said drugs that required suboxone treatment in the first place. I guess it really does vary from place to place?

See, this is a "degree" of drug testing that I wouldn't mind; only once at the beginning to ascertain they are actually coming down from opiates.

If the person is there to get pills to flip on the streets, or is just lying for Suboxone, they shouldn't get it. Buprenorphine is an opiate you can have a dependency on; if you don't start with harder opiates, you may not know how to "hold the leash" so to speak on Suboxone, and when abused, it will bite back.

This is personification of a drug, and I realize it's a bit of a stretch for some of you, literary wise. I don't often personify drugs (if I have quote me in this thread or PM me with a link! lol - I want a collection of all the good drug personifications I've thought up of) - but I thought it suited this example.

However, once someone has gotten clean from opiates/heroin (like I did), drug testing is 110% pointless. Checking to see if they relapse? Cutting people off from Suboxone when they relapse will only further enforce their heroin addiction. If you are a caring psychiatrist and just want to know how your patient is doing, if they're on the right road (so you can give them discrete, confidential counseling to help them out if you feel they need it - a lot of people have a "cry for help" of some sorts that no one "hears") that's one thing, but the vast majority of doctors are abusing drug tests with patients just to "keep them in line" or "make sure they're taking their meds" or "so they won't use other drugs" = all bullshit.

If you give the patients fair warning about the nature of buprenorphine you won't need to play once a week or once a month "parent" to your patients.

It's one thing if a patient asks to be drug tested, or agrees to it so that they may stay sober - this is also OK!

I just think the vast majority of us have a thing against drug testing - I personally am against it except for patients who request it or obviously benefit from it, when it comes to being prescribed medication.

When doctors say "we don't want you combining drugs that may be dangerous!" they really mean - "we don't trust you with your own life nor body" - and this is an incorrect message to send to patients. The correct message to send to your patients is that you DO trust them with their life and body, if they are in a relatively positive mental state, because you explain them the relative risks and side effects that may happen when combining drugs, instead of blowing it out of proportion for no reason other than to scare people into ignorance about their own bodies.

I can talk more about why I don't believe in drug testing later, feel free to ask me my opinions about it, but it is somewhat off-topic. I have people to reply to - I will get to you shortly! :)
 
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Captain Heroin, he only gave me 10 valium for sleep for the first few days in case I have trouble.

and the reason I don't want my employer to know is I work for a substance abuse facility :/
 
Captain Heroin, he only gave me 10 valium for sleep for the first few days in case I have trouble.

and the reason I don't want my employer to know is I work for a substance abuse facility :/

You will still be fine! They can fire you for using illegal drugs, not legal ones. :)

You're not a patient of the facility, you're an employee. :)

Just don't take your meds to work. Or, if you do, leave them in your car. It would be easier to not bring them to work at all if you can avoid it, or you can bring your medicine bottle in your glove compartment, and can get it out as needed when you have to "run to your car for something" - ;)
 
so I took my last dose of opiates at 9pm last night. 40 mg of oxycontin. when should I take the first 1/2 of the pill?

I'm not feeling too much withdrawal. just a little stomach stuff and maybe a little sweats.
 
so I took my last dose of opiates at 9pm last night. 40 mg of oxycontin. when should I take the first 1/2 of the pill?

I'm not feeling too much withdrawal. just a little stomach stuff and maybe a little sweats.

Wait until you start to feel withdrawal. You don't need to be in full fledged, sick as a dog withdrawal, but just wait until you are actually feeling the initial signs of withdrawal-then you can go ahead and take your dose.-DG
 
Did anyone watch episode 4 and 5 of Sober House this month?? Truly scary in how much hell those addicts live. Its enough to scare me straight into never starting with heroin, coke or meth. Its bad enough I'm a pill-popper, no need to make things worse.

Tom Sizemore totally lost it last week, I thought he was gonna kill that rock-band guy 8o
 
what's the cencus on having a few drinks while in Bupe? I have a wedding to go to this weekend and would like to have a drink or 2, but not sure it's safe.
 
I ended up not starting sub yesterday, but I will today.

my last dose of opiates were at 7:30pm yesterday, which was 40 mg of oxycontin. with a total of 120 mg over the day.

it's 12:30 and I have barely no withdrawal symptoms....waiting to take the sub when i start feeling it. Just some minor stomach cramps.
 
if taking opiates on subox causes them to just be blocked but the subox works, why do you have to wait so long to get onto sub? if you go into precipitated WD's, wouldn't your next dose work since the sub already kicked out the other opiate?
 
Drinking on Suboxone

what's the cencus on having a few drinks while in Bupe? I have a wedding to go to this weekend and would like to have a drink or 2, but not sure it's safe.

I don't like the effects, but if you don't mind having one drink, you can enjoy yourself. :)

I would just be careful as there's likely to be synergism.

I personally don't like combining alcohol and buprenorphine.

Did anyone watch episode 4 and 5 of Sober House this month?? Truly scary in how much hell those addicts live. Its enough to scare me straight into never starting with heroin, coke or meth. Its bad enough I'm a pill-popper, no need to make things worse.

Tom Sizemore totally lost it last week, I thought he was gonna kill that rock-band guy 8o

Heroin and meth are very euphoric and addictive. Cocaine just sucks, no need to do it. :)

if taking opiates on subox causes them to just be blocked but the subox works, why do you have to wait so long to get onto sub? if you go into precipitated WD's, wouldn't your next dose work since the sub already kicked out the other opiate?

It's better to wait to take Suboxone so that it works right the first time; precipitated WD can be very unpleasant from what I hear.

It's better to wait because it also builds your ability to be patient and less psychologically trigger happy with dosing. :) (Just my 2 cents)
 
^Not to go off topic here, but do you think cocaine would of ever been popular if crystal meth was always on the streets?
 
It's better to wait to take Suboxone so that it works right the first time; precipitated WD can be very unpleasant from what I hear.
yeah, but still, waiting a few days of withdrawal is just as bad as waiting one hour in precipitated withdrawals. ive experienced both, withdrawal is withdrawal (i didnt get precip wd right after my last dose wore off; i did wait several days, methadone just lasts quite long)

It's better to wait because it also builds your ability to be patient and less psychologically trigger happy with dosing. (Just my 2 cents)
IMO/my 2c is that the periods of excruciating pain, where you visualize that pill in your mind and long for it so that your body stops overheating even in the cold, your socks look like they were dipped into a pool (sweat) and your butt spouts liquid every 20m, ETC ETC, these are the periods (the withdrawal periods) where you grow very psychologically attached to the opiate. especially when you go back onto the opie, the feeling of withdrawal-->relief, furthers the addiction more. if one keeps onself out of withdrawal totally except for a slow taper, i think that's better psychologically so that you don't spend so much time not being able to get out of bed, not being able to eat, but getting nauseas cuz you're not eating, and just thinking "damn one pill would make me feel normal"

i def get the trigger happy thing though. my doc says even if i feel withdrawal i should wait and keep a strict schedule for that reason (it attempts to eliminate the psychological side)... but really i just want to keep my heart rate/body relatively healthy and stable (no ups downs ups downs, i hate that, though i do love waiting for me to go back up when i'm down and i finally score) and not experience those times of "ahhhhh i need a pill"
 
^Not to go off topic here, but do you think cocaine would of ever been popular if crystal meth was always on the streets?
NEVER!

Meth is so much better, it's actually worth using and is worth the comedown for a single recreational experience!

People have such a bad reputation of meth here, and it's really not around, so people resort to using crack and cocaine here. It's really gross stuff and ruins your life at a rate faster than meth will.

I don't see how you can get addicted to meth in a day...but it is for sure possible with cocaine and crack.

The effects of meth are FAR more euphoric than crack or cocaine. By FAR.

By the way, awesome question man. I like thinking about this sort of stuff. I realize it's pretty far off from the topic of a Suboxone Mega Thread, but I often theorize if heroin would still be as popular today if buprenorphine was never discovered as a great maintenance drug. I know I would still probably be using heroin if I wasn't able to get my Suboxone at the reasonable price and ease I do now.
 
took my first dose of Suboxone today! I started with 2mg, per my doctor, then an hour later took another 2. It definitely helped with the withdrawal but still feeling a little off.

He told me not to take more than 8mg on the first day though, so I will wait to take another 2-4mg until tonight so I can sleep. (along with the Valium he prescribed if needed)
 
yeah, but still, waiting a few days of withdrawal is just as bad as waiting one hour in precipitated withdrawals. ive experienced both, withdrawal is withdrawal (i didnt get precip wd right after my last dose wore off; i did wait several days, methadone just lasts quite long)
With heroin, I only had to wait 2.5 days, and it was "bearable" until the last 0.5 days. I don't mind having suffered for that long, because getting on Suboxone was definitely well worth it. It's not like I could have found heroin anyways, nor did I likely have money for it at the time...so I don't really mind having to go through regular withdrawal to a certain point first.

If you would rather titrate up the dose of buprenorphine starting in the microgram range first, I can't blame you, but I'm not that "needy", I would rather tough out the regular WD at least part way first.

IMO/my 2c is that the periods of excruciating pain, where you visualize that pill in your mind and long for it so that your body stops overheating even in the cold, your socks look like they were dipped into a pool (sweat) and your butt spouts liquid every 20m, ETC ETC, these are the periods (the withdrawal periods) where you grow very psychologically attached to the opiate. especially when you go back onto the opie, the feeling of withdrawal-->relief, furthers the addiction more. if one keeps onself out of withdrawal totally except for a slow taper, i think that's better psychologically so that you don't spend so much time not being able to get out of bed, not being able to eat, but getting nauseas cuz you're not eating, and just thinking "damn one pill would make me feel normal"
I agree, there is a certain "trade off" that occurs by taking buprenorphine, even if you're going to go into precipitated WD's. You can "speed up" a part of the WD to get to the point where buprenorphine is even a little relieving, instead of going through normal WD, to get to a point where buprenorphine is completely relieving.

I understand that the acute WD can be bad; though I believe there's a certain psychological/mental effect that happens with "withdrawal -> relief" occurs; you are training yourself how to relieve withdrawal symptoms.

If you go into the very middle of the worst of acute withdrawal and take buprenorphine, you are training yourself how to relieve withdrawal symptoms without creating a worse withdrawal later in time - which is exactly what happens when people use full agonists to the point of excess or habit/addiction/dependency.

I also think that by waiting until the middle of the worst of acute opiate WD, and by taking Suboxone only when you are certain precipitated WD will not occur, you are in a sense doing your best to break the psychological "hook" that heroin (or other opiates) can have on one by only having to "go there" one last time, before the worst you will go through is buprenorphine withdrawal; which is much more tolerable.

This is why I believe I was successful in staying away from heroin for 17 months (will be 18 months on the 19th of this month!) - I was able to get to "the worst" of it, and only had to go there "one more time" before I was finally "distanced" from the cumulative withdrawal syndrome from acute heroin withdrawal. Every other time I used heroin after that point - the regular withdrawal was not that bad. And as I slowly phased out the heroin use for buprenorphine, I slowly phased out the completely unbearable effects of opiate withdrawal.

Which was, in a figurative/personified sense, the only way I was going to get heroin's fishing line hook out of my poor, poor brain. :)

I hope that made any sense at all.
 
took my first dose of Suboxone today! I started with 2mg, per my doctor, then an hour later took another 2. It definitely helped with the withdrawal but still feeling a little off.

He told me not to take more than 8mg on the first day though, so I will wait to take another 2-4mg until tonight so I can sleep. (along with the Valium he prescribed if needed)

That's how I felt and that's how much I took my first day too! I had 2mg, and 20 minutes later felt a world of better and it was as if some of the worst WD symptoms disappeared!

After another 2mg I felt a bit more relieved and went home for the day.

If you don't need the Valium, save it for when you will be coming off of Suboxone. Trust me - benzos help with coming off of buprenorphine. :)

Then again if you need the Valium now, you can take some and it may help you more now than it will later.

Overall, I think benzos should be implemented in patients who can benefit medicinally from them (while avoiding a replacement addiction) when they are starting Suboxone and when they are stopping it.

So really if your doctor gave you benzos now, they will probably give you more when you need them when and if you quit taking Suboxone via a taper, so feel free to take them for sure if they are needed.

Personally - I also want to advise that you take them during the day time (the valium that is) if it is needed at all to alleviate anxiety. Valium is not as good of a sleep aid as it will interrupt REM sleep, and may make you feel "groggy" in the morning.

When I was just starting Suboxone, feeling "groggy" in the morning was the last thing I needed.

If you do need them for sleep, and you do find they make you feel groggy when you wake up the next morning, you could ask your doctor for Restoril (temazepam) - it doesn't interrupt REM sleep and has a great hypnotic effect just like Valium. It's the sleep medicine I use now, however I found out I have ADHD, and ever since I began ADHD meds, I don't use as much Restoril anymore. :)

I'm really happy to hear you began Suboxone Ashley! It's great to hear other people getting clean too. Feel free to keep us posted on how you are feeling/doing, and also feel free to PM me with any questions you might have that you may or may not want to ask in the mega thread for any reason you might find. %)
 
yeah, but still, waiting a few days of withdrawal is just as bad as waiting one hour in precipitated withdrawals. ive experienced both, withdrawal is withdrawal (i didnt get precip wd right after my last dose wore off; i did wait several days, methadone just lasts quite long)

Depends on how long you've been addicted and to what degree. People with very strong addictions can have precipitated withdrawals that literally incapacitate them...
 
Depends on how long you've been addicted and to what degree. People with very strong addictions can have precipitated withdrawals that literally incapacitate them...
Not just incapacitate, WD can kill you in some extreme cases. Even an "innocent" drug like alcohol can
 
I took another 2 mg cause I still had some physical symtoms which I think have subsided except foe bad shin splints so I took some advil.

I am feeling quite emotional though, likd I could cry at any minute but I know that's part of the process. Its only day one I can expect to feel perfect.
 
I also have a bit of a headache after taking the other 2mg. I'm up to 6 for the day. Its been 24 hours since my last dose of opiates. I'm feeling worlds better at 24 hours then I did when. I tried cold turkey. The worst of my withdrawals we're around 40 hours so I can't wait to get past that point on Sub
 
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