Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[onlywant2nod]

I'm screwed

I'm sitting here, an hour after dosing my suboxone, I'm on 2 8mg pills daily, just a month and almost two weeks ago I jumped off 150mg of methadone due to the "wake up call I got" after realizing the corrupt crap this one counselor I used to see weekly there was causing to me. I was so ticked off that I wanted to scream at her lol.

Anyway long story short, I decided to ct off the 150mg of methadone which of course felt like I wasn't even taking it, it had zero effect on me sadly. So I called my ex suboxone doctor/family doc, who I've known for ages and got me on subs back in 05. I called and told what I did, his nurse got back to me like only 10 mins or less later and said I needed to go into detox immediately.

So I went and toughed out like at least 4 days of wd's, I was then put on 4mg subs 2x daily, then discharged after my week was up and I felt alot better then. Strange however, since I got outta detox, I felt delusional for a few days like normal. After coming home two days later from an outpatient procedure under anesthesia that takes like 20 mins max(I loved that lovely high I get before going under).

Well after coming home after the long drive we do every 6 months. I woke up next day and felt like crap, I thought at first it was because it was 10:30am and I'm used to dosing my subs at 9 am, wrong. I took my 12mg all at once(I was upped to 12mg suboxone daily when discharged). I waited for it to kick in, I got a little ambition but nothing worth laughing or telling about even.

Suddenly I just started feeling this rage like I was ready to kill anyone on or off the road as we were driving that day to do errands. This rage went on for days, until one monday I just snapped when something went wrong. I rushed outside to put the trash out and screamed every profanity I could think of, right in the direction of the "white collar right winged trash scum" neighbors just to the left of our "hive"lol house that I despise. I came in and my Mom said "dont you ever do that again", I said I'll do whatever the F I want F those scum pos next door anyway.

Suddenly lol my Mom came out with my 20mg valium and 2mg xanax and plopped em in front of me and said "there go get blasted high as a kite like you want", I was like hmm ok cool, sadly however 20mg valium and even 2mg xanax doesn't do much for me. WTF is wrong with my body chemistry? I mean even the dumb pharmacist was about to not fill my suboxone script this recent last time after seeing how much benzo's I'm on. I told this foriegn pharmacist that, he is "unaware of my body chemistry and that I'm on the benzo's for ptsd and rage"

He didn't understand anything, and blabbered something I didn't understand and gave me my suboxone anyway. I was glad because I had just been upped 4mg that day after seeing my sub doc, now no more cutting 8mg pills in half because I was now to take 2 8mg pills daily. My suboxone doc is a bit funny, he said "some people get a little buzz off swallowing the saliva and some get a headache and feel better spitting it out after 10mins is up".

I told him, well my body chemistry is odd because I usually just swallow, however yesterday I swallowed both times and for the 1st time in a month I actually felt little depression at all and was alot more ambitious and full of energy than a month ago. Yet I had stopped taking the 200mg of tegretol 2x daily my psych doctor prescribed to me a month ago for depression. I thought, what the heck do I need that for, when opiates are the only thing that really work for depression.

I even had a talk about that with my suboxone doctor a while back, which maybe was a mistake to "let the cat outta the bag", because this time around now that he got me off methadone and on subs again, he also warned me that "just one little slip up and I would go back to my clinic again". I said oh no, I'd rather die than do that etc, he then blurbed the subject a bit by saying(my name), you know I talked to the doctor at "your clinic and if its anyone in this whole state that knows more about methadone than anyone, it would be him". I said, "I dont get what you are getting at", he said"I mean if you dont go to that day outpatient program etc I can kick off the subs just like that".

Strange, I went to the asessment at this day program at this hospital I hated the 1st time I detoxed, there. Just to satisfy my sub doc I went so I could prove I went, but declined the program for financial reasons and the cost of gas etc. I then took the papers with me to my sub docs office and gave them to his nurse to give to him to prove I at least went. I think that was a mistake because, natuarally he's going to keep those papers and know I just went for the asessment but declined if he calls them.

I kind of worry but at this point I dont really care, if he uses that info to hold it over my head later on, now that I'm on a higher dose of subs "he could say either I start going or he'd kick me off". I would have to say well I'm sorry but I cannot afford to go there, especially due to distance everyday and cost of gas etc. If he should use that in the near future to kick me off, back to mmt I go.

What I wonder though, is if I do get sent back to the clinic again, since I have been off methadone for a little while now and on the dose of subs I've been on. Of course I know from the first time I went on mmt off subs, was easy as hell, I was just a little less than 24 hours into wd off subs when they dosed me 30mg. So say I got kicked off like 2 months into being off mmt and back on subs.

What would happen at that point? would I get that lovely buzz from methadone like I did back when I first went from subs to mmt, or would it be same old same old crap? plus worse wd's?, I have no idea what to expect from stuff since I seem to have a strange body chemistry. I just feel like shit today, only thing I can think went wrong is, this morning when I got up and took my sub, I crushed the pill right up in my mouth to salivate good, which by the way works much better because the bioavailability of suboxone is way faster and better while waiting 10mins as you hold your saliva.

Yet this morning I woke up with a bad headache and knew that was maybe because I swallowed saliva both times yesterday so I spit it out, the headache is gone but I now feel like shit, depressed and dieing for a buzz and no ambition whatsoever. Thank God I was able to get done what I did yesterday, because I had the last of anything to packand ship that I sold on pos ebay a week ago. I had to get that shit done, I'm just so friggin sick of this that I just want to get high as a kite right now.

Only thing I can think I did wrong last night and this morning, was, I think stopping the tegretol was crucial, yet like a dummy last night just to test to see if thats whats doing it, I took one 200mg tegretol before I went to bed and this morning I spit out the saliva instead of swallowing it. Well now I know to quit the tegretol crap. I dont understand why the hell my suboxone doc said "suboxone is not for depression or moods the other time I saw him", that's when he requested that I see my psych doctor for "a mood stabilizer".

So I saw my psych doctor who has known me since 1998 and even he thought it was strange that suddenly my sub doc is stricter on me than before, he said "only reason I could think maybe that he is that way is because the dea is getting stricter on doctors in regards to opiates" or he had a bad talk with your doctor at the mmt clinic or something. My psych doc then looked way back at my 2 inch thick records into way back when I first started seeing him and when he mentioned trying tegretol, I said "I thought I already tried that", he said no, we were going to but you decided to try something else.

Soooo, he first off gave me titrating directions on how to get myself up to 3 200mg tegretol daily, well once I reached that dose, I was really zombied out and had bad headaches everyday, that's when I called him and he told me to go down to 2 pills daily until I see him in april. Well now all I can do is hope the pill I took last night will be gone outta my system by tonite and hopefully by tonite when I take my next suboxone I will feel alot better. Damn this whole "hell mess" of only 2 measly maintenance opioid programs in this sorry country just pisses me off.

It pisses me off even more that I'm stuck with having to be "handcuffed to maint opies in the 1st place"

 

[stuckinaloop]

I don't reccomend/condone/or think this is OK but know for a fact 2/3 of my last sub doctors would have given me the script whether or not I was addicted/dependant on opiates (not without my lying obviously). My point is that they did not assess withdrawal score on the chart or drug test, they just asked me about my use, when mylast dose was, and instructed me when to take my first tab then sent me on my way. The 1st doctor I went to did do the chart test and I did happen to be in withdrawals, but I still to this day have not been drug tested at a suboxone doctor..even the one I go to regularly.

sorry but you're not going to get prescribed sub unless you're in rebound/withdrawal because it is an opiate that maintains you when you have a dependence

in an ideal world where drugs were legal, you could purchase a few hits of subox at the local recreational drugs store. as it is, though, if you want sub prescribed from a doc you'll have to relapse for a bit so that your body shows rebound signs on cessation*. they only prescribe it to keep addicts from being sick, not to keep from having cravings

in fact, you don't wanna know how they cure cravings (naloxone pellet)

* there's a chart (which i am too lazy to find) on bluelight that shows how they score your withdrawal symptoms. each symptom has a corresponding number. eg hands shakiness 1,2,3,4. add up each symptom and if the number is above a certain level you are medically "in w/d". i suppose you could attempt to cheat the chart, but i wouldn't reccomend it. it's a bad idea, especially since you'd need drugs to alter those vital signs, and they pee test you

 

[BIGsherm7272]

I know this has been asked a million times, but usually a higher doses. It has been about 29 hours since my last dose of sub (~.5mg), and I was wondering how long I should wait to do some oxycodone. Most of the threads I read stated anyhwere from 36 hours all the way to 96 hours.....But they were all on much higher doses.....I have been on bupe for about 3 months, so what would be a realistic time for me to take some oxycodone?

 

[stuckinaloop]

Unless you are planning on only taking like 5-10mg you will have absolutely no problem getting high. .5mg is a very low dose of bupe. You could take that then get high directly after even (not at 100% obviously).

Honestly though you are talking 1/16th of an 8mg tab, after 12 hours IMO you will get like 99% as high as you would of not have ever taken the sub.

But at such a low dose you are safe to fuck around and you will def get high, all the shit you read is more directed toward if you are on higher doses.

if you are on over 4mg I wouldnt attempt getting high in any less than 24hours, if you are on 2-4mg I usually get high 12-24 hours after with good effects (12hr being on the low end if your on 4mg), on 1-2mg I can get high after 6 hours but I still try to wait 12 and I feel most effects. If you are on less than 1mg like you I feel the effects of oxy/dope pretty mcuh any time even like 4 hours after.

 

[BIGsherm7272]

thank you so much of your post, I am already feeling jittery and need to go sniff me some blues!

 

[ThePharmicist]

Unless you are planning on only taking like 5-10mg you will have absolutely no problem getting high. .5mg is a very low dose of bupe. You could take that then get high directly after even (not at 100% obviously).

Honestly though you are talking 1/16th of an 8mg tab, after 12 hours IMO you will get like 99% as high as you would of not have ever taken the sub.

But at such a low dose you are safe to fuck around and you will def get high, all the shit you read is more directed toward if you are on higher doses.

if you are on over 4mg I wouldnt attempt getting high in any less than 24hours, if you are on 2-4mg I usually get high 12-24 hours after with good effects (12hr being on the low end if your on 4mg), on 1-2mg I can get high after 6 hours but I still try to wait 12 and I feel most effects. If you are on less than 1mg like you I feel the effects of oxy/dope pretty mcuh any time even like 4 hours after.

Question regarding this. What if I was to take just 1mg today (I usually take 4mg) and then wait 12 hours as you suggest. Do you think I'd be able to catch a buzz from some Norcos? Or would I have to wait around 24 hours because up until today I've been taking 4mgs?

For some reason this question is confusing me right now. Normally it wouldn't, but I think it's my new med. (Wellbutrin XL)

 

[Mandatory17]

The lower the dose I took, the higher I got. That's why I'm at 0.1mg per dose, 0.4 to 0.6mg average per day.

This always interests me Captain, I've seen you post this before and read the same from others too. Would the same be true if taken sublingual? I've been noticing that I just feel shittier and shittier every day it seems lately. Today for instance is a BAD day. I have ZERO motivation to do anything. I've been taking 6-8 mgs. every day now for almost 9 months. Combined with a low dose of Xanax (1mg-1.5 depending on the day), which I don't think is why I feel like shit since I've been taking it on and off for a while now. I take both orally, so I don't know, just wondering why I seem to not feel well most of the time now when I was doing pretty well for a while & feeling pretty good. Not necessarily high, but good & normal.

So many people say less is more with bupe, I think just need to convince myself that's really the case? lol

 

[Captain.Heroin]

This always interests me Captain, I've seen you post this before and read the same from others too. Would the same be true if taken sublingual? I've been noticing that I just feel shittier and shittier every day it seems lately. Today for instance is a BAD day. I have ZERO motivation to do anything. I've been taking 6-8 mgs. every day now for almost 9 months. Combined with a low dose of Xanax (1mg-1.5 depending on the day), which I don't think is why I feel like shit since I've been taking it on and off for a while now. I take both orally, so I don't know, just wondering why I seem to not feel well most of the time now when I was doing pretty well for a while & feeling pretty good. Not necessarily high, but good & normal.

So many people say less is more with bupe, I think just need to convince myself that's really the case? lol

Well I'd say you should take your time lowering your dose. Like get down to 6mg per day, then 4mg per day. You can stick at 4mg for a few days or up to a few months, depending on how you'd like to taper. You can always take more but not less.

Some people need a larger dose of buprenorphine, but I don't find that it's many people who do, just a few.

 

[qwe]

i'm not able to access the last page of this thread

i have a similar motivation problem like Mandatory; i also did on methadone

 

[rolls_]

i'm not able to access the last page of this thread

i have a similar motivation problem like Mandatory; i also did on methadone

That is because this is the last page. I often get that where it reports there being one more page than there really is. Usually happens in big megathreads like this.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

i'm not able to access the last page of this thread

Yes you are.

The link for the 30th page shouldn't be showing up, it's a common error on BL.

Clicking on the link for the 30th page will send you to the 29th page.

 

[onlywant2nod]

Whoever mentioned being on wellbutrin, that stuff sucks ass, at least it did for me. But everyone's chemistry is a bit different, but for instance when I first was on subs, I dont know why but I now remember being put on that wellbutrin crap too, I noticed that the wellbutrin seemed to just soak up any effects any opiates at all had on me.

I told my psych doc and he told me to quit the wellbutrin and then I started feeling my subs ALOT better. Just thought I'd share this experience here.

 

[Mandatory17]

Well I'd say you should take your time lowering your dose. Like get down to 6mg per day, then 4mg per day. You can stick at 4mg for a few days or up to a few months, depending on how you'd like to taper. You can always take more but not less.

Some people need a larger dose of buprenorphine, but I don't find that it's many people who do, just a few.

thanks Captain, I shall taper down to 4 over the next few weeks and then eventually down to 2 and see how it goes. This thread is unbelievable! So much info. in here it's great!

 

[ThePharmicist]

Whoever mentioned being on wellbutrin, that stuff sucks ass, at least it did for me. But everyone's chemistry is a bit different, but for instance when I first was on subs, I dont know why but I now remember being put on that wellbutrin crap too, I noticed that the wellbutrin seemed to just soak up any effects any opiates at all had on me.

I told my psych doc and he told me to quit the wellbutrin and then I started feeling my subs ALOT better. Just thought I'd share this experience here.

I've been on Subs for over a year, they don't do much for me anyway, aside from a little boost of energy and if I'm really lucky I might get a little body high or a bit of an itch.

I started Wellbutrin last week, I've been really depressed lately so I told my Doc about it and he recommended Wellbutrin for me (I'm already on Lexapro). The shit is actually helping to get me going again, I'm so used to having zero motivation to do anything that it's nice to finally feel like I've got the energy to see my friends. I haven't noticed any negative interactions between the WB and the Subs. Everything is pretty much the same.

However, one thing I could see as a problem is how Wellbutrin is a dopamine re-uptake inhibitor. That might affect what kind of feelings you get from opiates. I haven't read anything that would corroborate that, but it sort of makes sense.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Whoever mentioned being on wellbutrin, that stuff sucks ass, at least it did for me. But everyone's chemistry is a bit different, but for instance when I first was on subs, I dont know why but I now remember being put on that wellbutrin crap too, I noticed that the wellbutrin seemed to just soak up any effects any opiates at all had on me.

I told my psych doc and he told me to quit the wellbutrin and then I started feeling my subs ALOT better. Just thought I'd share this experience here.

I don't imagine the norepinephrine reuptake inhibition effects of bupropion hcl would be very compatible with Suboxone. In fact, NRI on Suboxone = YUCK. Nasty feeling, more than like it.

Wellbutrin by itself was OK for me but then again I think most reuptake inhibitors are just a way for drug companies to make money off of people's suffering, and only end up helping select few people. Not everyone needs *more* neurotransmitters, especially norepinephrine or serotonin.

thanks Captain, I shall taper down to 4 over the next few weeks and then eventually down to 2 and see how it goes. This thread is unbelievable! So much info. in here it's great!

Great idea and good luck!

Let us know how it goes for you. Take your time tapering and have a nice day. :D

 

[Broken_LCD]

I have a huge problem. I had to go to a supervised urine the other day, supposedly "random" although I knew it wasn't. So when I seen my Suboxone doctor yesterday I asked her what was the problem. We went through all my urine tests and pretty much it's coming up with little to no Suboxone metabolites in it. She even said the raise in my dose should show and it hasn't. Some weeks I have more metabolites than others but all around it's extremely low.

I have never had a dirty urine, and I go to all my mandatory meetings, and she supposedly didn't want to do the supervised urine on me but had to because when the DEA goes over the samples and if they see the clinic keeps giving pills to this person with no Bupe in the system without taking action they can get the license revoked.

I definitely take my full dose every single day, 2 and 1/2 pills 20mg. Now IDK if this is affecting anything but I have been told I drink a lot of water, it doesn't seem that way to me though. You never catch me without a bottle of water and I've been this way for years and years now. I asked my doctor if it was the water and she says she doesn't know because there is so much myth about what flushes the system and what works for drug tests.

Anyone have ideas about what's going on? Is my body processing the Suboxone too fast, is it really the water? I also hold the pill in my mouth for 15-20 mins and don't swallow anything then spit out whatever's in my mouth. Usually when I swallow that stuff it gives me a stomach ache, and I didn't think it would make a difference because it's supposed to be taken sublingually anyway.

 

[rolls_]

Anyone have ideas about what's going on? Is my body processing the Suboxone too fast, is it really the water? I also hold the pill in my mouth for 15-20 mins and don't swallow anything then spit out whatever's in my mouth. Usually when I swallow that stuff it gives me a stomach ache, and I didn't think it would make a difference because it's supposed to be taken sublingually anyway.

Depends how the docs work the tests. Surely they must base your suboxone concentration against something else. If not you could just pour water into your piss sample to dilute it which we all know doesn't work.

Ask them to take a blood sample.

edit:

I also hold the pill in my mouth for 15-20 mins and don't swallow anything then spit out whatever's in my mouth. Usually when I swallow that stuff it gives me a stomach ache, and I didn't think it would make a difference because it's supposed to be taken sublingually anyway.

There you go, why the hell are you spitting it out? you should swallow it all, yes it does dissolve sublingually but if you leave it in your mouth for that long it is going to fill up with saliva making it take an hour to completely dissolve. You should swallow 100% of what is left over for it to work.

Think about it, if it dissolved 100% and you swallowed it how could pure saliva give you a stomach ache? simple, it couldnt. The answer is the suboxone is giving you a stomach ache.

Sounds like you have been spitting out a majority of your dose everytime. There is a plus here, you have most likely massively lowered your tolerance so you can drop down to a really small dose and just swallow that.

 

[qwe]

@broken

water can effect it. no myth

factors to consider (nonmythical):

* the sooner you pee after you wake up, the more metabolites. they build up as you sleep and not pee

* less water = more concentrated metabolites. the body will retain a little water from the bladder, and any chemical will then show up as a higher concentration

* exercise does help a very TINY bit only by upping metabolism itself

* are you on any other drugs? even things that aren't psychoactive, as they could influence enzymes

unfortunately i have this same problem with klonopin. it won't show up in my pee, ive been taking it 3x a day for years

 

[daddysgone]

For anyone who might be planning a bupe taper, this was my experience with it: My doses varied sometimes, but I basically tapered down to 2 mg every other day.

I'm on Day 7 right now and pretty much back to 95%. It's not fun but definitely doable (not even anywhere close to w/d from a full agonist). Sleeping is still fucked up--I can fall asleep without pills but I wake up constantly throughout the night--but other than that, the physical symptoms are gone. Mental, though, is another story ha.

Does anyone know if it would set me back if I took some bupe today or tomorrow? I don't really want to permanently quit, I just don't want to be physically dependent on it...

Im glad to hear your taper is going well, and I hate to be the bringer of bad news, but you haven't hit the tough part yet. If I understand you correctly, you have tapered down to 2mg, is that right? 2mg is still a decent sized dose that can "hold" most people believe it or not.
I am sorry to tell you that the real hard part will be tapering down once you get down to 1mg and below. Good luck to you-DG

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I have a huge problem. I had to go to a supervised urine the other day, supposedly "random" although I knew it wasn't. So when I seen my Suboxone doctor yesterday I asked her what was the problem. We went through all my urine tests and pretty much it's coming up with little to no Suboxone metabolites in it. She even said the raise in my dose should show and it hasn't. Some weeks I have more metabolites than others but all around it's extremely low.

I have never had a dirty urine, and I go to all my mandatory meetings, and she supposedly didn't want to do the supervised urine on me but had to because when the DEA goes over the samples and if they see the clinic keeps giving pills to this person with no Bupe in the system without taking action they can get the license revoked.

I definitely take my full dose every single day, 2 and 1/2 pills 20mg. Now IDK if this is affecting anything but I have been told I drink a lot of water, it doesn't seem that way to me though. You never catch me without a bottle of water and I've been this way for years and years now. I asked my doctor if it was the water and she says she doesn't know because there is so much myth about what flushes the system and what works for drug tests.

Anyone have ideas about what's going on? Is my body processing the Suboxone too fast, is it really the water? I also hold the pill in my mouth for 15-20 mins and don't swallow anything then spit out whatever's in my mouth. Usually when I swallow that stuff it gives me a stomach ache, and I didn't think it would make a difference because it's supposed to be taken sublingually anyway.

Get a new doctor.

Drug tests are not perfect, in fact, they don't work well, and some people will always test negative, even if they've been getting loaded for quite some time.

This is why we don't allow drug tests: drug tests are a scam.