Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[HdoubleODeezy]

oh.. ok.

thanks CH

 

[Captain.Heroin]

No problem man. Most of us probably have at least one strain of HPV, as I doubt any of us are virgins.

Lets come together, and create a BA conversion chart, for comparison of SL, intranasal, and IV.



1mg IV = 0.5mg intranasal = 0.3mg Subling

Your numbers are wrong. You would use less with the IV route than you would with the others.

There's really no way to compare the ROA's, but I find that...

26 mcg IV = 52 mcg IN

 

[Drifter74]

A lot of drugs can cause hepatitis. Unless you get jaundice I wouldn't worry.

Scary shit for sure. I had NO CLUE.

I don't remember seeing this in previous emails or on their website.... either I missed it several times before or it's something they just noticed and felt they needed to add.

Gotta see if I saved some old emails...hmm

 

[jjdonkey]

But the problem with someone whos been on suboxone for 3 years, Ill tell you the problem. It is that this person has become stagnant, This person has not made any personal growth due to being an addict first.. No matter what you say this is your life. AS a suboxone maintaince person you are stuck just like anyone else On opiates. you loss the ability to mature correctly. you can not socailize with anyone who is "normal " in a way that doesnt invole things that are not Right and if you can you rarely do because you do not feel confy.

give me a break. I'm forty years old. I matured a long time ago. Then I fell into a shitty depression with chronic pain. I don't do drugs to see pretty colors and hang out with friends listening to music. I have a family to take care of, a house to manage, friends who are "normal" whatever the fuck that means, and I feel like myself. I don't feel fantastic, or "confy" or pain free all the time. I'm not living in a dream world. I'm still depressed, still in therapy and still trying to figure out what I'm supposed to be doing with my life.

Go peddle your half baked big pharma conspiracy theories elsewhere. It's very telling that you get so angry when you see people feeling better.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

give me a break. I'm forty years old. I matured a long time ago. Then I fell into a shitty depression with chronic pain. I don't do drugs to see pretty colors and hang out with friends listening to music. I have a family to take care of, a house to manage, friends who are "normal" whatever the fuck that means, and I feel like myself. I don't feel fantastic, or "confy" or pain free all the time. I'm not living in a dream world. I'm still depressed, still in therapy and still trying to figure out what I'm supposed to be doing with my life.

Go peddle your half baked big pharma conspiracy theories elsewhere. It's very telling that you get so angry when you see people feeling better.

I agree, being on Suboxone is not like being dependent on full agonist opiates, at all.

Especially if you have tapered down and don't have an opiate tolerance anymore.

 

[SubDude]

I think it's important for most SMT people to seek the lowest dose possible... without getting cravings for other drugs.

The predicament many of us face on low dose subs is that we can use other opiates and get better effects... and it's easier and smoother when switching back and forth. It can be very tempting to use H. Oxy... etc when you're on less than 1mg verses being on much higher doses. I personally believe this is one of the main reasons most subs dr's prescribe subs in the higher doses. Their not stupid... they know subs will work fine [and keep WD's at bay] for most patients at low dose, but they also know the higher doses will keep most patients from using other opiates.

My advice for those of you [on subs maint] who know you are going to need ORT for the long term [and still use other opiates] is to research methadone [MMT] as a possible alternative. You won't get "takehomes" very quickly and there will likely be more clinic related hassles... but it could be a better choice as a maintenance drug.

I say this strictly from my own personal experience. I was on MMT for over 15yrs and never used opiates, pot, or anything else besides prescribed 10mg valium... during that time. practically no uges and I knew it would be a waste of opiates/money anyway. Since going on subs... I've used opiates, pot, alcohol on a fairly regular basis simply because I now have the urges/cravings and know I can do it and get high. It takes a lot of discipline to use other drugs ["successfully"] recreationally while on subs... and I'm not sure I have that for the long term. Anyway, I don't like it, but thats the way it is. Higher dose isn't a good option for me due to the side effects.

So if subs isn't working the way you want or expected, I encourage you to check out the alternatives available.... which includes increasing your subs dose... if low dose doesn't work.

 

[crushcamel]

I dont think methadone is that good of option for people on suboxone. I am not sure why you were able to stay clean and not use ANY type of drug for 15 years while you were on methadone, but i have gone to 2 seperate methadone clinics and both of them were FULL of people on methadone maintanence and yet they still went out and got there heroin fix everyday....and they smoked weed all the time etc..More than half of the people on methadone were still using heroin and even more than that were still abusing other drugs such as weed, etc...
That was because people on methadone maintanence dont get drug tested every day when they get there medication because it would be too fucking expensive for the clinic to do that so they get away with it....and since methadone doesnt really block ohter opiates that well, and it usually will only make a person MORE high if they use methadone along with there heroin, methadone maintanenence is much less likely to keep you clean imo.

 

[LittlebyLittle]

jumping in here now....

my last dose of anything was a Norco (10mg Hydrocodone/325 APAP) yesterday around 6pm. I'm beginning to start feeling my withdrawal, but not so physically. i was doing around 90mg/day for months and I'm trying to quit but I just haven't felt badly enough to justify to myself taking my subs. is craving hard core and being hot and cold enough symptoms to start my suboxone after 18 hours of sober waiting?

 

[crushcamel]

jumping in here now....

my last dose of anything was a Norco (10mg Hydrocodone/325 APAP) yesterday around 6pm. I'm beginning to start feeling my withdrawal, but not so physically. i was doing around 90mg/day for months and I'm trying to quit but I just haven't felt badly enough to justify to myself taking my subs. is craving hard core and being hot and cold enough symptoms to start my suboxone after 18 hours of sober waiting?

probably not

 

[LittlebyLittle]

what am i waiting for?

saturday - 25mg methadone
sunday- 15mg methadone
monday - no use
tuesday - no use
wednesday - 10mg hydrocodone

i haven't had withdrawals to speak of yet besides depression and cravings. my legs got sore a bit last night as well.

so again, what signs am i waiting to see before i can get relief from the depression (imo the worst part)?

 

[crushcamel]

severe withdrawal. thats different for everybody tho, usually its like severe body aches so that you cant move very well, total body convulsions because of the pain, stuff like that...

 

[SubDude]

I dont think methadone is that good of option for people on suboxone. I am not sure why you were able to stay clean and not use ANY type of drug for 15 years while you were on methadone, but i have gone to 2 seperate methadone clinics and both of them were FULL of people on methadone maintanence and yet they still went out and got there heroin fix everyday....and they smoked weed all the time etc..More than half of the people on methadone were still using heroin and even more than that were still abusing other drugs such as weed, etc...
That was because people on methadone maintanence dont get drug tested every day when they get there medication because it would be too fucking expensive for the clinic to do that so they get away with it....and since methadone doesnt really block ohter opiates that well, and it usually will only make a person MORE high if they use methadone along with there heroin, methadone maintanenence is much less likely to keep you clean imo.

Most MMT people will tell you it's a waste of money to use heroin on top of their meth maint dose. I doubt you know much about MMT or opiate testing on [while on MMT] because during the first 6 mos of treatment, most clinics random test suspected opiate users multiple times a month and will kick them out when they continue to fail the drug screens.

 

[LittlebyLittle]

severe withdrawal. thats different for everybody tho, usually its like severe body aches so that you cant move very well, total body convulsions because of the pain, stuff like that...

That sounds a little extreme. Not everyone gets those symptoms, especially not that intensely. I probably won't get that bad. Are subs just not right for people that aren't opiate-monsters?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

That sounds a little extreme. Not everyone gets those symptoms, especially not that intensely. I probably won't get that bad. Are subs just not right for people that aren't opiate-monsters?

Buprenorphine is fine for people who aren't opiate-monsters. It's just better that people with little/no tolerance take a considerably smaller dose than an "opiate-monster".

BTW this is totally what I thought of when you said "opiate-monster":

 

[DeLee]

what am i waiting for?

saturday - 25mg methadone
sunday- 15mg methadone
monday - no use
tuesday - no use
wednesday - 10mg hydrocodone

i haven't had withdrawals to speak of yet besides depression and cravings. my legs got sore a bit last night as well.

so again, what signs am i waiting to see before i can get relief from the depression (imo the worst part)?

Is those the only opioids and days you used?
If so you wont get any withdrawal from that.

 

[LittlebyLittle]

Is those the only opioids and days you used?
If so you wont get any withdrawal from that.

nah i used a bunch of oxy for about 7 months before this daily. 60-90mg/day.

Buprenorphine is fine for people who aren't opiate-monsters. It's just better that people with little/no tolerance take a considerably smaller dose than an "opiate-monster".

BTW this is totally what I thought of when you said "opiate-monster":

nah. by monster i just meant someone that consumes a very massive amount of opiates per day.

 

[Covert]

Hey guys. I've been on Suboxone since late August (can't remember the date right now) and I want off of it. I hear that the w/ds are only going to get worse and the PAWS is only going to get longer the longer I am on it and I feel like it has served it's purpose, and now I can live successfully without it.
I am going to group therapy sessions and I have other thigns to keep me busy so it's not like I am lacking in support.

The thing that's kinda time sensitive is that i really hate my suboxone doctor and I do not want to pay him for another visit, and I can only get scripts from him when i go and visit.
I am going to run out of pills before I can get another doctor and I don't want to visit this one again.
I want to taper down relatively quickly ASAP, and I have already begun to do so by going from 16mg/day to 12mg today.
I have 5 and 1/2 8mgs left and I want to know the best advice possible with this.

If I were you, i'd suck it up and go see that doctor one more time, just so you'll have a few more subs saved up & you can taper at smaller amounts just a little bit longer-- this should make the WDs as pain-free as possible.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Just get another bottle and taper down from there, I think Covert is spot on.

---

Let this be a warning to everyone in this thread, if you are going to be demeaning towards fellow Bluelighters in this thread, or anywhere else in Other Drugs, you will get an infraction.

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

Well I have another Q. It seems pretty obvious that I don't have nearly enough to do a comfortable taper, but what about the timing of my decision to come off suboxone in the first place?
I was just recently hospitalized for a severe depression induced incident where I found myself sitting in my car while it was running inside my closed garage.
This incident came about due to the convergence of several stressful factors in my life which I don't feel like getting into. I don't feel like what i did was a legitimate suicide attempt, but it was definitely a cry for help.
I had been on suboxone for about a month prior, but I was receiving very very minuscule amounts of therapy from a psychiatrist, but no drug group sessions or any kind of real talk therapy, and I wasn't going to meetings. My suboxone doctor is very unprofessional.

I was hospitalized after what looked to be a suicide attempt and I was in the Psyche ward for 8 days, and now I am going to a partial hospitalization program that meets 5 times a week for 6 hours a day. This program will last about 2 weeks at which time I am going to be referred to another group therapy and other types of outpatient treatment.
Now these therapy sessions are very very good compared to the therapy I had been getting from my old psychiatrist and I feel like I have a lot more supports in my life that will help me stay sober. I also feel MUCH less depressed than I did just a little over a week ago when this all started. I really do feel like I can take a solid and earnest attempt at sobriety without the aid of suboxone, but my doctors and this Nurse Practitioner that I saw all tell me that it's too soon, and that too much stuff has happened in my life recently for me to be able to honestly stay sober.
I have gone cold turkey off opiates before, and I am willing to do it again.
Given this little bit of background that I told you guys does anyone think it's too soon for me to go off suboxone now, or is tapering down a good idea if I feel really internally committed?
Pros/cons?

The desire to get off suboxone came to me in the middle of a work-out session i was doing yesterday evening, but the seed was planted by a few different people.
Here's a little about my totally ridiculous Suboxone doctor that I am seeing: He has literally thousands of books on every single subject imaginable (usually art and travel books, and some coffee table books and political books) scattered around his office and piled up in huge stacks as soon as you walk in the door. He has no secretary, which makes setting up appointments and getting him payments nearly a crapshoot, he forgets to sign his name to checks and then charges late fees when they don't go through, he doesn't go through insurance so the copays are very high, he prescribes just enough so that I am forced to see him twice a month, he doesn't even know all there is to know about the drug itself (he told me that the naloxone prevents you from being able to snort or IV the pill, which I later found out was untrue), and he has me on way more than I feel like I need (16mg/day). My opiate habit was less than an 80 of OC a day, and I never had a really steady supply.
I just want to be away from him, and I want to be away from the world of opiate maintenance in general(both legal and illegal). My nurse practitioner who i saw today said to me "well you got yourself on the opiates so you are going to have to withdraw sometime, you might as well just put it off." I thought that was a highly illogical thing to say to me. The shorter time I'm on it, and the less I take, will both have direct impacts on the type of withdrawal I experience. I don't want 6 month long PAWS or anything like that.
i'm getting sick of hearing about this "wonder drug" and I am getting sick of deferring to the "doctor knows best" mentality.

Oh, the other thing is that I am currently on some very good anti-depressants, Wellbutrin, Mirtazipine, and Geodon, so I am prepared to handle some withdrawal right now. I want to stress the fact that I AM NOT feeling depressed at all ever since I got out of the hospital. I feel ready to take on sobriety full force. I want to do it sooner than later.

 

[SkagKush]

loving the cookie monster picture captain.....

wheres james been at....

another 2mg dose today..... hoora.....