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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

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DeLee said:
Goodday,
So I have developed these joint pains.
It is NOT withdrawal, not even the same sort of pain. The mornings are the most painfull - i need to 'work out' my fingers, arms, legs, feet etc.

Now I have been told by different people that the Naloxone in Suboxone can cause joint pain.
Anything that you have heard or someone maybe have had joint pain?
Click to expand...

Hell yeah. I get joint pain throughout my body while still consuming 4mg Suboxone normally, up to 8mg (as I am prescribed 12mg/Daily)

Is there a way I can prove my pain derives from the naloxone in suboxone to my doctor, so he could switch me to subutex?
 
it's not listed as a side effect of naloxone on drugs.com or anything. is there any research or a study or something out there to support this?
 
stray cat said:
it's not listed as a side effect of naloxone on drugs.com or anything. is there any research or a study or something out there to support this?
Click to expand...

Yea, im not saying that the nalaxone in the suboxone ISNT causing the joint pain, among other things people claim that it does, its just ALOT of people tend to just blame every other symptoom they get while on suboxone on the "mystery" drug nalaxone in it. People just cant accept that the nalaxone just isnt active when taken correctly. Allthough, I do admit that I am not a doctor, or scientist, and there can be a way somehow where it actually IS the nalaxone causing all these side effects, but until I see some actual medical research done on it to back up what people are trying to say, I am going to remain skeptical. Dont get me wrong, im not going to NOT believe all those claims, im just not going to think either way....like I said, remain skeptical.

Maybe you people who have joint pain should try lowering your suboxone dose. Because if it actually IS the nalaxone, or even the bupe causing the joint pain, the lower dose will not only lower the amount of drug in your body to cause pain, it will also activate bupes full agonist metabilte nurbupernorphine which actually kills pain, so that may actually help you alot.

Just a thought.
 
to add to your post a little bit james, some of the side effects that people complain about are actually listed side effects of naloxone, which provides a somewhat rational basis for their belief, whether or not is in fact due to naloxone or one of a million other things. i don't see "joint pain" even listed as a side effect, which is why i was wondering if there is some study out there that discusses a possible connection or whether it's just something someone heard from somebody's brother's coke dealer, etc.

here's one about jaw/joint pain from naloxone in rats for example:

http://jn.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/72/3/1430

i don't think it really applies bc it has to do w/ naloxone increasing jaw muscle activity and thus causing inflamation in rats, but maybe there is a study someone knows about that is more on point?
 
jamesBrown: Good points.

It is very difficult to get Subutex from my clinic unless youre pragnent and that I can't get for obvious reasons. heh.
Anyway its hard to get Subutex but not impossible. Though like I said I don't know if the Suboxone is the cause for these pains. I really appreciate all the people who tell their story and give som insigt into this matter.
 
I went to the doctor today he forced me to switch to the stupis tongue strips. Im gonna bitch that they dont works as well at my next appointment then hopedully he will write me the pliis agains.
 
i posted a question the the bupe / alcohol thread, that i could used answered.

on another note, i think i may cut down to 2mg tomo. from 4mg that ive been at for about a week now.
 
Hello all, been a longtime lurker, but I finally registered so I could post this!

I got started on sub today, finally. After trying to kick oxys for months now, I finally decided that suboxone treatment was right for me (been doing anywhere from 100-400mg IV oxy or morphine daily for the past year).

My doc prescribed the strips, but wrote out on there that pills could be substituted if strips not available. 8mg, three times a day seems a bit much, but he told me to adjust my dose as my body is telling me, and just not take more than that each day.

So far today I took 12 mg to start this morning at the appointment, and then another 4mg this afternoon, about 4:00. Its been almost 5 hours since then, and I am feeling like I want to do a little more. Is it too soon? Should I hold off on any more for today, or take some (or all) of that last pill?

I'd appreciate any advice that anyone could give me...I don't want to overdo these and end up with a terrible new addiction, but I also don't want to do so little that I relapse on the opiates. I have to get my life straight, and I feel like this is the only way I can actually succeed.

I have felt pretty good today. Actually, this afternoon I think I felt a little too good considering I haven't used oxy since yesterday, and normally about now I'd be really miserable and trying to score! I was able to go to work this afternoon and actually focus instead of thinking about how to get dope, so that's a big plus for suboxone in my book! =D

Sorry for the ramble, I think I have a little more energy than normal for whatever reason. Any advice will be greatly appreciated!
 
sounds like you dont need more that a total of 16mgs a day. for a few days try 8mg in morning and 8mg at night. then go to 8mg in morning and 4mg at night. then go to 8mg morning and 2mg at night. then hopefully u can get to 8mg once daily and take it from there. start stockpiling the rest ;)
 
thanks for the reply, man.

I hope I'll never have need for a stockpile of subs, but yeah, after reading up on them, I thought that 24mg/day seemed like an awful lot to be taking!

The program I am in keeps you on them for anywhere from 9-15 months, but they start reducing your daily dose after the first few months. Hopefully I'll be able to taper off these and avoid the WDs...It sounds like people are only having bad withdrawal symptoms because they tried to taper off too quickly after being on a high dose for many months.

What is the recommended timeframe for this sort of treatment? My ultimate goal is to be completely free of any drug dependency.

Also, what's the deal with taking very small doses of this? I really just want to take enough to function without being sick, but I must say that I have enjoyed today more than any other day I've had in a long time!
 
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Interesting about all this joint pain. I find myself constantly having to crack mybones (fingers, elbows, neck, back, ankles, knees, toes) in order to feel relief from the pain. I shoot up around 3mg of subs a day.
 
shanefrommaine said:
Do you guys that do <1.0mg, are you breaking up the N2 (2mg) Suboxone? Or are you making really tiny pieces from an N8 (8mg) Suboxone?
Click to expand...

I'm water measuring, but I used to do what JB described (crushing up the pill, measuring out piles/lines with a razor) before I was micron filtering.

SkagKush said:
if im still at 4mg is there an advantage to snorting 4mg???

i know the BA is 50 percent, but the dose is to high to gain pleasure.... no?
Click to expand...

If you are going to switch ROA's you want to lower the dose a little bit. JB's advice to taper down a little more first is a good idea.
 
ya i totally agree, i think we came up with 6 or so reasons actually.......................
 
u may not get a first hand choice, but after a "test period" i am sure you could say they dont work as well for you....
 
what is the big deal with not being able to use the tablets? ow, snorting i guess.

fyi, 4mg is all anyone really needs as far as stabilizing on bupe. the first day a full 8-16mg may be needed but after that 4 is really all one needs.

i remember when i was kicking a 1g a day habit of really high quality E coast powder. had a dominican delivery connect and all. all i needed was 8mg and i was fine for not only the first day but the second as well.

i still think bupe maintenance is a HORRIBLE idea for someone addicted to vicodin. no dr will tell you that though, well no outpatient dr. it is like killing a fly with a machine gun....or something.
 
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