Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

[KnowBudz]

It sure is sounding like this thread, rather than following the "harm reduction" theme often morphs into "how to get high while on suboxone". Given that suboxone is supposed to be prescribed for patients who have trashed their lives with opiates and seek to change, I gotta wonder if many are wasting their money. This tendency ought to be addressed.

More and more, I've seen a lot of newbies (to suboxone) who are either very young or have become dependent on Rx opiates after pain treatment. A good portion of these folks have never been through rehab or other treatment and sometimes see themselves as "different" than those of us who have been down and dirty (repeatedly). I have heard several who seem to see suboxone as some kind of safety net and have the rather cavalier attitude that they can continue their old ways, and that suboxone is available should they fail. This can get people killed.

I have certainly done my share of cheating, and have gone through phases where I craved opiates or other drugs terribly. In all honesty, such thinking is deadly for me. Looking at relapse, it is plain that the actual relapse comes far earlier than the moment we pop a pill or stick a rig in our arms, it occurs at the moment we begin to feel in control and comfortable and start to entertain the thoughts that "this time" we can beat the disease. I've been fortunate to have survived several relapses, but each time we roll those dice, we are playing a deadly game!

 

[Ufotofu9]

KnowBudz,

I take your point and I apologize for hijacking the thread to go off on my own little experiments.

I was in rehab recently for 30 days in which they took me off of Suboxone (I was also highly addicted to Benzos) and when I came out of rehab clean off of everything I relapsed in two days. I took rehab very seriously and strange as it may sound, I'm taking recovery very seriously too. I got back on Suboxone yesterday and I'm am thankful for that. I would have been on the streets in a week, kicked out of my mom's house and bumming around on people's couches with ZERO money and even less self-respect. But before that happened I luckily had the presence of mind to tell my mom what was going on and get back on Suboxone before it was too late.

If anyone has any doubts about relapsing, I can dispel them. Relapsing is SOOO much worse. Shit went downhill in three weeks for me fats than it did in 4 years of active use. I swear I hardly know what hit me!

That I'm shooting it up is still addiction. I go to AA every day and I'll probably tell my sponsor that I've shot up Suboxone. But having Suboxone means I won't be pawning all my stuff to pay for Oxys for just one more day. I now don't have cravings for other drugs and I'm staying relatively safe. If I didn't do that with Suboxone than it would be with a much less safe drug is the way I see it.

If the moderator wants to move my posts that's his prerogative.

 

[KnowBudz]

Oh, I was in no way implying that you hijacked the thread. Glad to hear you are able to get back!

I think a lot of us sit on how we feel and/or the times we use something. It took me many years to finally come to grips with my addictions. When I started out, I thought if I could just quit cocaine my troubles would be over. Of course, I believed I could continue drinking and doing all the other stuff, too. It doesn't work that way.

I guess what happens is that if we are fortunate enough to survive, we eventually run out of drugs to abuse. The only substance I have ever been able to "control" to any extent is weed, probably because it just doesn't take me where I want to go. Many years ago, I could never control it. All the little tricks I've tried (not using needles, using only on weekends, using only Rx drugs) eventually lead back to trouble. Then, you're really fucked: when you know there is no "fun" or "escape" available, but life sucks and you do it anyway. That's how you end up in the squirrel cage!

 

[Ufotofu9]

Yeah. I rejected that I was an addict at first but then I realize that the AA and rehab people had my number. I often understood and identified with what people were saying at meetings, especially talking about drug use. But the more I learned about addiction the more I realized that I was only hurting myself by denying my disease.

It was liberating to admit that I was an addict and always would be. Also that I was powerless, but I don't won't preach that stuff, haha.

More to the topic of the thread, I believe that Suboxone alone is nowhere near as helpful as Suboxone + a program that talks about the disease model of addiction--which is really more of a 'truth' rather than a model.

 

[Oxymorphone]

So Suboxone has a half life of about 30 hours right? It also had weird response curve with the ceiling having little effect. I took the top 40mg sublinqual dose as an experiment 2 days ago (Dec 1) and I'm wondering if the curve of suboxone affects half life at all. So by this morning I should have had about 15-20 in my system if thehalf life wasn't affected, and about 10-15mg now, is that correct? I haven't dosed in the past two days since then, so will I have to wait another 30 hours (Saturday afternoon Dec 5) to be down to 5-7.5? meaning I shouldn't take a dose until Sunday when I want to start my intake of 2mg per day?

Is that how the half life of Suboxone works or is there something strange about it to like it's response curve?

 

[Oxymorphone]

I just got a 10 pack of needles from the pharmacy and just had to IV something. I wish I knew I could walk in and buy a 10 pack for $3.39 when I was an active heroin user.

Anyway I was going to IV adderall then realized it would be stupid and I don't want to be up reorganizing and cleaning my house until 9AM so I gave suboxone a shot. I just IVed 1mg and definitely feel something. Nothing close to nodding off or full blow but I feel relaxed and good. I can't wait to drop my daily intake way down and be able to get high off my legal drugs whenever I want (I will have like 20 years worth by the time my official suboxone treatment is over).

I'm sure this is nothing like what I will be able to feel in a week. Damn I wish I didn't take that 40mg dose for fun. I only hope I can feel it quicker. I may try IVing .25-.5mg daily (whatever is equivalent to 2mg sublingual) next week just as my dosage and seeing what happens.

 

[CaliburX]

Question: I usually smoke cigarettes like a raging fiend when on opiates of any kind. I'm thinking Suboxone is going to produce the same urges I take it or is it different has anyone else found?

Also, what usually happens at the first appointment? Do they just ask you questions and have you explain why you want to go on them and the doc gives you some right then and there in the office? I heard someone else say (not on these forums) that sometimes they will have you come back a few days in a row to see how whatever they're giving you has been affecting you before they give you a take home script. Is this true? Just curious and wishing it were tomorrow afternoon already -- the five day wait for the appointment hasn't been pleasant but at least I got some Oxy yesterday though I know I'll be feeling like shit tomorrow morning.

 

[Oxymorphone]

Question: I usually smoke cigarettes like a raging fiend when on opiates of any kind. I'm thinking Suboxone is going to produce the same urges I take it or is it different has anyone else found?

Also, what usually happens at the first appointment? Do they just ask you questions and have you explain why you want to go on them and the doc gives you some right then and there in the office? I heard someone else say (not on these forums) that sometimes they will have you come back a few days in a row to see how whatever they're giving you has been affecting you before they give you a take home script. Is this true? Just curious and wishing it were tomorrow afternoon already -- the five day wait for the appointment hasn't been pleasant but at least I got some Oxy yesterday though I know I'll be feeling like shit tomorrow morning.

As far as cigs go I doubt it. when you are on Suboxone at a stable dose for its intended purpose you just feel completely normal. There is no high or anything, it's just like being sober it just prevents you from withdrawing and wanting to use opiates.

Most places have you come in for an evaluation appointment, then once approved for Suboxone treatment they will have you come in a day or two later and you can't use anything for at least 24 hours (some say 48-72, but that is BS) and you need to be in withdrawal. You will come back for the Suboxone induction where you will get evaluated by a doctor and rates you on a scale that determines if you are in withdrawal and ready to start suboxone. In my case they started me with 2mb subutex then had me wait in a room for an hour then came back and did the evaluation again before giving me another 2mg dose. I had to wait another hour then got a week prescription for 8-16mg. I didn't have to come back to take it in the office after the first time but I hear some places do that for a day or two.

 

[Ufotofu9]

Also, what usually happens at the first appointment? Do they just ask you questions and have you explain why you want to go on them and the doc gives you some right then and there in the office? I heard someone else say (not on these forums) that sometimes they will have you come back a few days in a row to see how whatever they're giving you has been affecting you before they give you a take home script. Is this true? Just curious and wishing it were tomorrow afternoon already -- the five day wait for the appointment hasn't been pleasant but at least I got some Oxy yesterday though I know I'll be feeling like shit tomorrow morning.

CaliburX,

I'm happy to be writing this to you now. I just went back on Suboxone yesterday after being off of it for 2 months. I relapsed last month on OxyContin. As I've explained, the relapse has been worse than any time when I used before. Incredible.

Anyways, for me the induction was simple. I stopped Oxys for 28 hours. I went to the appointment, the doctor asked me some questions about my history, and then asked me how I was feeling at the moment (I was in withdrawal and feeling shitty, of course). He looked at my eyes, which were dilated, and then he handed me 1/4 of a Suboxone tablet and had me put it under my tongue. He started making small talk with me to distract me for a few moments and then asked how I was feeling.

Since I was feeling much much better in about 5 minutes or so, we started talking about dosages. He suggested that I take 1/4 of a pill later yesterday, which I did, and then 1/4 in the am today and one or two more in the pm until I was up to around 8 mg next week. He wrote me a Rx for 30 x 8 mg tabs and told me to come back in 10 days to discuss how I was doing. In 10 days he will write me a script for a month.

I know doctors do it differently. This doctor is very very permissive. He just writes a Rx and will just do that for me every month. I know of another doctor who my friend sees who makes you bring all the pills to him and gives you a week supply when you come in. That seems like overkill to me. Some doctors have you come in or call in daily. It all depends.

Good luck man. And don't try to bash your hand in with a hammer anymore, please. You're making a great decision by going on Suboxone.

 

[Oxymorphone]

Alright so I'm planning to drop to 2mg daily which I'm hoping will allow me to get high if I choose to.

Now what is the equivalent IV dose to 2mg sublingual? Once I am stabilized on 2mf per day for a week or so what dosage IV and sublingual would be a sweet spot to get me high? I have also heard of people getting high from their daily maintenance dosage, what circumstances would cause that?

From the 1mg I shot today I definitely felt something, I just have to wait for all the bupe I have in my system to exit (damn I wish I never tried taking 40mg). Any way to speed up how fast it is metabolized?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

hahaha , that was pretty quick a reply Cap ... and yes , Dormicum is truly awesome , by far my fave benzo ,a lot of people in here actually IV it with either Bupre or Heroin and even though I won't be trying this for obvious reasons it surely has me thinking how would that feel.

I prefer IV midazolam, but I've also had half a dormicum tablet sublingually. Great stuff!

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Yeha I IVed it abd got a little bit but not much. I just wnat to feel something. After 20mg of benzos then getting ripped off $70 on coke it was a shitty night. And now I spent my last needle and it's all dull. I have no idea where to get another one or two but it has gotten too paintful to use so if I want to IV suboxone I need another source. Tips? I would love to just buy from a pharmacy instead of ordering online, I don't really want it traced to me.

It's best to order online; if it's legal to possess syringes in your state (it should be in most states - it is in mine) then there's no problem ordering syringes online. It's not going to get "traced back to you". You can buy 2c-E online, you can buy phenazepam online, you can buy mephedrone online. It's all unscheduled, besides indirectly under the Federal Analogue Act.

I just shot up approximately .3 to .5 mgs of Suboxone. No precipitated w/d. Although I can't say it's made me high either. I might do another one after I shower and I'll report back. I think it's safe to say that IVing Suboxone doesn't unleash the Narcan like the doctor and others claim. Though most of us knew that already. As an addict I wasn't going to be satisfied until I found out for myself.

Yup. 0.5mg or less is a good amount to get high with, just take a while off of full agonists and let your tolerance drop down a while.

Yeah I'm gonna IV about .3 mg this morning. My first day back on Suboxone was yesterday and I took 4 mg. I'm feeling shitty this morning so that I.V method should work. I've heard over and over that Narcan will put me into withdrawal, but I really have a tolerance of about 160mg OC from three days ago and 4 mg Suboxone from yesterday so I don't even believe it would be all that much withdrawal. Then again I hear over and over that the Bupe outcompetes the Narcan so the withdrawal by injection claim is BS. I wILL FIND OUT FOR SURE AND REPORT BACK!

The naloxone is not going to put you into WD - buprenorphine would. However, if you don't go into precipitated WD you should be fine.

I actually tried sharpening my needle with a little file and knife, it worked to an extent and definitely made a difference.

Agh! Don't do that! Just re-cap used needles and exchange/discard them. Reusing needles is horrible. Just go buy more, 10 should only cost you $3 roughly.

Oh and what's the best possible method to prevent track marks, I was out of practice with a dull needle and I can't have them showing or I'm done for. I put ointment on, anything else I can do?

Let the site heal up before shooting again in the same area - use 31G needles. I never get tracks from 31G's.

 

[Oxymorphone]

Yeah that was yesterday when I didn't know you could buy syringes legally in some pharmacies, I'll be buying new ones from now on. Is it okay to use one needle 3 times? It seems a little crazy that after one use the needle is so damaged you can't use it again. I wouldn't think 2-3 uses would be much different than a new needle. After 3 I would definitely toss, I used to use the same needle 20+ times, it wasn't good but the first 6 or so times all felt like new.

 

[Oxymorphone]

Anyway I was wondering, if I didn't take any suboxone until I start withdrawing is there a good chance I would get high when I take a small dose?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Yeah that was yesterday when I didn't know you could buy syringes legally in some pharmacies, I'll be buying new ones from now on. Is it okay to use one needle 3 times? It seems a little crazy that after one use the needle is so damaged you can't use it again. I wouldn't think 2-3 uses would be much different than a new needle. After 3 I would definitely toss, I used to use the same needle 20+ times, it wasn't good but the first 6 or so times all felt like new.

After one use, the needle is no longer sterile. This is why it's better to use a new needle every time. Past one or two punctures, the needle is dulled as well. Also, past one use, a needle is less sturdy, hence another reason you should only use new needles every time.

It may seem wasteful to use a needle once but it's no big deal.

Anyway I was wondering, if I didn't take any suboxone until I start withdrawing is there a good chance I would get high when I take a small dose?

Possibly. I think it might take you longer to get your opiate tolerance back down, but you can always see and find out.

Worst case scenario is you'll need to take more to get an effect out of it.

Before you know it your tolerance will be dropping back down though. It'll be a pleasant surprise when buprenorphine gives you a better effect, it was for me at least.

 

[Ufotofu9]

Yeah. There is nothing like enjoying your detox and maintenance drugs.

This morning I just took 4 mg Suboxone sublingual and I am bringing 2 mgs with me to work just in case I need it later in the. IVing it yesterday was nice because it gave me a bit of a rush, but taking it normally really helps my mood a lot and gives me great energy. I remember in taking Subs for 9 months before this feeling never ent away and I never had to change the dose.

Suboxone really is great for people whose lives have been scarred by drug addiction. It's a huge improvement over my life before. I can be honest with people now...it's great.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Suboxone really is great for people whose lives have been scarred by drug addiction. It's a huge improvement over my life before. I can be honest with people now...it's great.

I agree. I couldn't be happier right now with my life.

 

[CaliburX]

As far as cigs go I doubt it. when you are on Suboxone at a stable dose for its intended purpose you just feel completely normal. There is no high or anything, it's just like being sober it just prevents you from withdrawing and wanting to use opiates.

Most places have you come in for an evaluation appointment, then once approved for Suboxone treatment they will have you come in a day or two later and you can't use anything for at least 24 hours (some say 48-72, but that is BS) and you need to be in withdrawal. You will come back for the Suboxone induction where you will get evaluated by a doctor and rates you on a scale that determines if you are in withdrawal and ready to start suboxone. In my case they started me with 2mb subutex then had me wait in a room for an hour then came back and did the evaluation again before giving me another 2mg dose. I had to wait another hour then got a week prescription for 8-16mg. I didn't have to come back to take it in the office after the first time but I hear some places do that for a day or two.

CaliburX,

I'm happy to be writing this to you now. I just went back on Suboxone yesterday after being off of it for 2 months. I relapsed last month on OxyContin. As I've explained, the relapse has been worse than any time when I used before. Incredible.

Anyways, for me the induction was simple. I stopped Oxys for 28 hours. I went to the appointment, the doctor asked me some questions about my history, and then asked me how I was feeling at the moment (I was in withdrawal and feeling shitty, of course). He looked at my eyes, which were dilated, and then he handed me 1/4 of a Suboxone tablet and had me put it under my tongue. He started making small talk with me to distract me for a few moments and then asked how I was feeling.

Since I was feeling much much better in about 5 minutes or so, we started talking about dosages. He suggested that I take 1/4 of a pill later yesterday, which I did, and then 1/4 in the am today and one or two more in the pm until I was up to around 8 mg next week. He wrote me a Rx for 30 x 8 mg tabs and told me to come back in 10 days to discuss how I was doing. In 10 days he will write me a script for a month.

I know doctors do it differently. This doctor is very very permissive. He just writes a Rx and will just do that for me every month. I know of another doctor who my friend sees who makes you bring all the pills to him and gives you a week supply when you come in. That seems like overkill to me. Some doctors have you come in or call in daily. It all depends.

Good luck man. And don't try to bash your hand in with a hammer anymore, please. You're making a great decision by going on Suboxone.

Thanks for the replies guys. I hope telling him I did my research and haven't done anything in 24 hours (more than 24 hours actually) means I won't have to wait any longer. It's already been 5 days to set up the appointment as it is. I feel like shit.

And I don't plan on smashing my finger in anytime soon lol. At least as long as this doc has some sympathy and doesn't make me wait any longer. I suppose I can always tell him about the hammer incident and it would be in his right as a doctor to keep me healthy to make sure I don't go anything that stupid again, right?

I just know if he has me wait I'll break down and go get some Oxy's or something with my portion of the rent money that's due today -- and I can't afford to do that. As much as I know that I shouldn't do it, the calling is just too strong and it doesn't help that the doctors office is right in the heart of my "drug acquisition" area. I think the withdrawals are what's making everything worse but I can't stop thinking of all the worst case scenarios. Everything will probably end up being fine. At least I hope so!

 

[CaliburX]

Update: Okay so I just got back from the doctors and everything went well. Feeling so much better now after having picked up a week prescription and taking the recommended 4mg (twice per day -- with the second dose only coming if I absolutely need it).

The appointment went great, it was such a relief to finally be able to not have to lie out of my ass to a medical doctor. The doc was a cool shit and we had similar beliefs on spirituality as it relates to sobriety. He told me to take a look at the 12 Steps and think about each one and talk to him about them about the first few next Friday. Not that the 12 Steps are new to me -- I used to go to a bunch of 12 Step meetings and worked through the first 5 with my sponsor about half a year ago, but I'm all for it. I was doing good with AA and stuff back on my last previous attempt to get clean and it honestly helps. Only problem is, it's much easier to take it a day at a time inside of a meeting then when you're in your car with enough money to get off on Oxycontin just a few minutes away. That was the part that I had the most trouble with.

But things are looking good, I think. Thank you to everyone who responded with advice or answered any questions over my last few posts. This place is the fucking shit and I intend to get more involved in this thread with the knowledge that I gain as well as help out anywhere else where I might qualify to chime in.

Here's to a normal, not-crazy-as-fuck life!

 

[Strobe Rabbit]

Would bupe cancel out shrooms? I'm thinking of taking some tonight, but I'm already on bupe