Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

[Spaazkaz]

So I changed my dose... prescribed (24mg a day) I have now cut it down to 16mg and yet I still start feeling lethargic about 2 - 3 hours after my first dose(4mg) in the mornings... I called my dr and he said it was most likely due to the fact that I'm not getting a full 8 hours of sleep every night... but I just really don't think that's what's causing it... so once again has ANYONE experienced this... I mean I get VERY tired, eyes very red and it's hard to stay awake... I feel GREAT after the first dose and then good again after I take my 2nd(8mg) dose and my last(4mg) dose in the evening... Am I still taking WAY too much and if so how should I go about cutting it down even more because I would think if I keep juggling my dose around it's going to make it worse... ANY information or advice would be GREATLY appreciated guys...

** I do want to state that even with this adverse side effect this drug has still completely changed my life for the better... it's so great having money left over after payday.. hah

I would agree with you its probably the suboxone as long as you are getting more than 6 hours of sleep/night. I have definitely felt the lethargy from BOTH not enough bupe, and too much bupe. I agree with other posters i would keep going down... less is (often) more with the bupe. There is this happy medium dose for everyone that works like a charm you just have to keep adjusting until you find it. If your doctor said it was sleep he probably doesn't know shit about suboxone... I suggest you start going through this thread from the beginning, MOST sub docs really dont know a damn thing about suboxone/subutex/bupe. It is somewhat complex or at least confusing in how it works and what it does (to me).
-Spaz-

 

[chrisinabox]

subisjustokay, you should try lowering you dose even more than that, i would say down to 8mg, and then see if its still doing it. you said you were taking 16-20mg/day when you asked the question before so you really havent lowered it much at all.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

You only really need 5 to 7 hours of sleep in a night anyways. Many studies have backed this up with impressive results. I took biopsychology, and whatever doctor said otherwise is incorrect, and probably just plain outdated.

subisjustokay, you should try lowering you dose even more than that, i would say down to 8mg, and then see if its still doing it. you said you were taking 16-20mg/day when you asked the question before so you really havent lowered it much at all.

I agree with this statement.

He'd probably be OK with 4mg/day, 2mg in the beginning of the day and 2mg later at night.

But, people love to think they "need" blank amount of a drug when they really don't. If I had a nickel for every time I heard a drunk say how they "needed to get drunk"...8)

 

[Mr Blonde]

^

The Cumulative Cost of Additional Wakefulness: Dose-Response Effects on Neurobehavioral Functions and Sleep Physiology From Chronic Sleep Restriction and Total Sleep Deprivation

Results:Chronic restriction of sleep periods to 4 h or 6 h per night over 14 consecutive days resulted in significant cumulative, dose-dependent deficits in cognitive performance on all tasks.

I'd be interesting in seeing some of the studies you mentioned though, and see what results they got from people getting only 5 hours sleep a night and how their study differs from the one I linked to.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Actually, the author of my biopsych book himself slept 5 hours every night, to try to prove/disprove this knowledge. While there was an initial discomfort, his body seemed to be able to do everything else just as able as an 8 hour night of sleep. He made a chart of his 'projected' and 'actual' sleep times; most of them were pretty close. Only rarely did he sleep in by half an hour.

5 to 7 hours is best for sleep because through the life cycle, the amount of time you need to sleep varies. I can't state it off the top of my head, but once you are an adult, the older you get, the less time you need to sleep.

I probably disprove what I am saying here, 7 hours would barely satisfy me sleeping wise. However, I am still tapering down on buprenorphine, and I often am dabbling into whatever else is floating around me...so I'm not a good representation.

I remember though, when I went to public school, I would turn my TV's volume low at night so I could stay up really late and not wake the rest of the family. I would probably get to sleep around 3 AM, and would have to wake up around 7 AM, 7:30 AM for school...so I probably used to get 4, maybe 5 hours sleep every night...it didn't seem to bother me when I was a kid. I actually hated sleeping as a child and liked only getting "just enough" sleep, otherwise I would have hypnagogic hallucinations and all sorts of terrifying waking dream sort of things...

I'll go grab my biopsych book and ramble on some more...

edit

I probably sold it for drug money when I was still on heroin. I'm going to go search the internet for a hot minute, brb. Yes, now that I think of it, that's most likely what happened to it.

http://www.alibris.co.uk/search/books/isbn/9780205548927

I don't know if I can specifically get to the information that's inside...but I did read it in this book, I know that for sure.


...

Basically, I'll describe the study to the best of my knowledge. People were surveyed, and there was an average hours per night slept by each person. Well, everyone dies, so they correlated the deaths of everyone, relatively how young/old they were, to how much they slept at night.

They found that the people who lived the longest sleep an average of 5 to 7 hours per night, and that below or above that, you start to see that people don't live as long.

Whether this is directly or indirectly correlated, I think it's obvious that people who abuse crack or meth every day their whole lives and get very little sleep, or those who are constantly passed out drunk and don't get any awake time, are very likely of dying young. And that's indirectly related to drug abuse.

I think other people are likely to live riskier lifestyles who need to stay up longer, ie militia, and they're likely of dying young too. Then there are people who have narcolepsy, they're likely to fall asleep doing something which could potentially endanger their lives. They're likely to die younger too, and these are also indirectly related to the lifestyles of individuals.

Now, if you never get a wink of sleep, and eventually go crazy and end up offing yourself, that's directly related to no sleep.

The idea was that no matter how the numbers are correlated, it is generally accepted that 5 to 7 hours is optimal for human functioning. Of course, everyone's different, which is why sometimes I'll wake up 6, 7 hours after falling asleep, whereas other times it's nearly double that.

 

[formanchristopher]

yikes. 72 hours to wait?! omg i might just fucking go cold turkey all together. oh wait. i cant. anxiety attacks arent any fun, are they. sam seems stuck. and now i'm on 4 8/2's a day. whoopie. its actually kinda nice in combination with the clonodine. i just miss going outside and what not. seems all i've been doing since i stopped is laying around eating candy for energy. i'm about to hit an n/a meeting just to FUCKING DO SOMETHING, since all my friends are shooting the fuck up or boosting stores for money.

anybody else ever get the lonelyness whilst quitting? it fucking sucks.
came up with a new term.. instead of halt, salty.
where as halt is - hungry angry lonely tired.
salty - shaky angry lonely tired and yawny. pretty accurate for opiate w/d's.
USE IT. MAKE ME FUCKING INFAMOUS.

^^I too have found myself kinda what...."trapped" in the house? Partly due to severe anxiety disorders, but yet I also take the same clonidine you take (but
only take one of my 2 pills , at night), and, I take clonipin 4 x daily. Regardless,
I still feel just like you. Allmy friends(?) still use/drink, and that's just not an option right now (hanging w/them). So, I too have been going too AA/NA meetings, and I normally go for random walks daily, at different times.
Shit, between that(almost being agoraphobic), and the lack of nookie due to zero libido, I'm not doing too well myself. Thank the gods for a very understanding & patient girlfriend, because she has to do without, too. And the guilt sucks, ya know??
I go see my Sub doctor today(in 3 hrs) and I'm gonna have this exact conversation w/him, and see if alittle dose of Wellbutrin might help. Literature
and sites say it is/can be stimulating, and I'm grasping at straws at this point, really I am. If I could(without going back to prison) I'd just grab a bag of meth and drill my baby like there's no tomorrow. But we all know that would be both a huge mistake even if I got away with it, and I'd regret it in the end.
Any comments would be welcomed...I take "1" 8mg Suboxone daily, which is plenty and has been for a year. Thanx!!
PS-Good luck to the person above, too.

 

[hatethered]

1.50mg of suboxone in a opiate naive person

hows it going, well long story short, i gave my girl 1.50mg of suboxone last night which she snorted. bad idea i know, she has zero tolerance and never has done any opiates.
about 30 minutes after she did it she began throwing up for about 4 hours. once she threw up everything in her stomach she continued gagging and feeling nasuea (s.p). everytime she stood up she felt sick, so i took her home and walked her inside she laid down and went to bed. so this morning she got up still nasuaus and has thrown up once already today.

i realize throwing up is pretty common on any opiates but ive never seen someone get that sick on such a small dose of suboxone. she told me she may be allergic to codiene, so that makes me think she may be allergic to all opiates?

if anyone can shed some light for me and let me know if shes going to be alright in the long run? say she is allergic, whats the worst cast scenario? i believe the worst is over.. thanks for reading this long post any help would be appreciated

 

[Diacetyl-M]

The worst of it is probably over. Buprenorphine is quite different from codeine chemically, and usually someone is not allergic to all opioids. So long as she's not having trouble breathing and theres no swelling or rash, then she's probably just experiencing the nausea so common to opioid naive persons. I'll also point out that snorting suboxone allows some of the naloxone (opiate antagonist) to be absorbed as well, which is mostly destroyed when taken orally. I hope she's feeling better soon. Be careful and be safe...

Oh yeah...obviously the nausea may last for some time considering buprenorphine's long duration of action..

 

[morphonorconic]

She should be fine by this afternoon/evening, or tomorrow at the latest. One and a half milligrams of Buprenorphine is a pretty substantial dose to begin with, capable of staving off withdrawl symptoms for regular users, and is way too much for someone with no tolerance to Opioids at all to take for their first time. Buprenorphine is quite potent.

Perhaps next time you might consider trying a small dose of a full agonist like Hydrocodone, instead of a moderate dose of a very potent agonist-antagonist.

 

[hatethered]

thank you so much for the help so far, the only reason i allowed her to do some is because she was curious. i'll never ever give her anymore she really didnt enjoy it. she says shes feeling better than last night, but has thrown up twice today. yes im aware of suboxones long duration, i believe thats the reason she is still sick
yeah i did some research, shes not having any swelling, hives, rashes..etc so thats good.
i love this bluelight community you guys are so helpful, she thanks you as well.

 

[cosmic charlie]

The same thing happened to me when I gave a girl some bupe. She did a line that was about 2 mg's and after about an hour should started puking for the rest of the day. Some people are just really sensitive to opiates. I personally could snort a whole 8mg without a tolerance and just get really high. I don't ever get sick from opiates though really.

I hope your friend feel's better

 

[hatethered]

im the same way cosmiccharlie, i use about 3-4mg snorted a day. and about once a week ill do a full pill without any bad reactions. i felt bad for letting her try it, since its my girlfriend of almost a year. i wont make that mistake again.

 

[icwfrock]

The trick to Suboxone

Hello everyone, I just thought I would share the results of my experiments with you on Suboxone.

I get a great buzz every day due to few things I have tried that all revolve around time. First of all snorting Suboxone has been the most effective way of administration, followed by rectally( makes my bowels move way too much).

I have found that increments of 9 hours to 24 hours of doses " resets " the tolerance for me and 2 other friends. That is I take about 3mg every 9 and 24 hours in my day ( twice a day, but offset ).
So I wake up at 3pm and dose about 15 minutes later, then at about 12am I dose again.

What that does is: offsets the dose in your day, so that effectively gives your body around 15-16 hours to reset it's daily tolerance ( since you're taking one when you get up, and one about 9 hours later.. that gives 15 more hours of time, which is half sleep if not more.. for your body to reset it's tolerance.

I was originally told to take 2 8mg tablets a day, and that is just absolutely too much for anyone. You may think it's not too much for you, but you really only need 8mg in a day max. I used to snort a half once a day, and found that effective...but very very hard to just dose once a day for me. So I started experimenting with the 9, and 24 hour dose increments.. and I get a great 6+ hour long buzz everyday I wake up.. and the 9 hour mark dose( the night dose ).. is very very small.. around 1mg just about 3-4 hours before I go to bed.

If you dont take less than 2mg at the night dose, then you will put too much suboxone in your body, and the tolerance reset will not work correctly. You have to be feeling " sick " when you wake up for this to work correctly.

So try it, if you can...I and 2 others have been successful, it just takes a tad bit of work.

 

[daddysgone]

Im glad this seems to work for you (s0 far...), but im sorry-this is complete nonsense. How can u possibly argue that 15 hours is sufficient time for your body to "reset its tolerance", when you are dealing with a drug that has a 36-72 hour half life???
you are essentially stating that your body is resetting its tolerance while the drug is still in your system. things just dont work that way (wish they did)

 

[PillPoppingAnimal]

12mgs? thats far enough

but what were ur dosages of what opiate b4 sub treatment/maintnance?

 

[Unknown]

Interesting... I let this sit here for a couple hours before merging it to the suboxone megathread. Anyone else to conform this?

 

[daysonatrain]

of course you can get high from suboxone if you use it not that often. and like daddysgone said, the half life is so long that eventually you will stop getting high if you keep doing it at that schedule. but whats the point? if your prescribed suboxone why take it to get the minimal high that it gives?

if you dont want to quit getting high on opiates why not just start taking h or OC's again?

 

[Naptown Wicked]

of course you can get high from suboxone if you use it not that often. and like daddysgone said, the half life is so long that eventually you will stop getting high if you keep doing it at that schedule. but whats the point? if your prescribed suboxone why take it to get the minimal high that it gives?

if you dont want to quit getting high on opiates why not just start taking h or OC's again?

Because, for me at least, I can get a buzz for 4 days off a $10, 8mg sub. H and OC are MUCH more expensive....

 

[streezy]

I assume that you don't/didn't have a very high opiate tolerance?

These days I take 1mg of bupe in the morning just to fight the withdrawals.

I started doing this after taking 8+ mgs in the morning with no sort of euphoria, so I figured I might as well take as little as possible since there is no point of taking more than necessary to feel well.

My opiate tolerant friends get no "high" from bupe, although my opiate naive friends will catch a buzz from suboxone.

 

[Dxmmonster]

Thats retarded man! When I had no tolorance to opiates 0.4mg was already a high dose for me.
You should have researched more before you gave her that high of a dose.
Although I know bupe is hard to OD on but still man, giveing her 1.5mgs was a fuckin stupid idea.