Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

[sixpartseven]

chrisinabox, buprenorphine really is, at the least, as potent as fentanyl, if not slightly more potent.

 

[chrisinabox]

"you shouldnt have any wds"
Read my post dude. dont respond to something without reading it first it makes you look stupid. sorry for being rude but your pissing me off
peace

all i was saying here was that if you properly take enough time and do a nice slow taper and go down to about 0.1-0.2mg of bupe, the w/ds should be very minimal if at all.

 

[sixpartseven]

Ok, thats enough, guys.

 

[chrisinabox]

chrisinabox, buprenorphine really is, at the least, as potent as fentanyl, if not slightly more potent.

i never said it wasnt nearly as strong as fent. i believe fentanyl is 81 times stronger than morphine and buprenorphine is 25-40 times stronger.

like i said above, i was just mentioning my slight disagreement with what ofukibenhearb4 was saying.

sixpartseven, did you delete my post? i dont see it on here anymore. i dont think i was being any more mean than ofuk. i was just saying my point of view. now ofuk wont be able to see my post showing that i DID read his posts and i am NOT naive. thank you.
if something else happened, sorry.

 

[sixpartseven]

Okay, I gotcha. All is well.

 

[psychotic]

My doctor is dead, I have no money, so i have NO DOC.
sub to me is basicaly heroin in a pill or better so to me it was a REALLY bad choice.
i wont thank it for anything, its the most hardcore drug ive ever encountered (and ive done them all basicaly) (keep in mind this shit is up their with FENT in terms of potency)
I have 60 8 mg subs left, and 240 norcos.

I was wondering if kratom has been used by any of you AFTER tapering off subs? cause once in the mid of cold turk sub wd kratom did NOTHING for me, but tapering down to .5 mg...............anyone have input?
sorry i just made a really long post and the fucking thing got deleted or something becasue by the time i hit post, it had logged me out and so i lost the whole fucking post. damnit

kratom doesn't help withdrawl... and sub is far from heroin in a pill.... As for it being the most hardcore drug.. the potency is high, but the recreational value is low, it is only a partial antagonist, not a true opiate.
The reason people take 16-24 mg is because thats the ammount needed to stop CRAVINGS.... using suboxone to stop withdrawal is one thing.... using it to stop a mental addiction is completely different.... I find most people that use it only to stop withdrawl find it outrageous that others need 'high doses', but those same people relapse over and over, using suboxone just to bypass the withdrawal. ONLY after you have overcome your mental addiction should you taper off of suboxone, there is a fine line while dropping the dose where cravings come back in, and the purpose is to not push it, to NOT relapse and NOT have cravings, because those cravings are your mental addiction...... if you get addicted to opiates, then go through withdrawl, and never get hooked on them again... GOOD FOR YOU, because you were only PHYSICALLY addictive... But if you go through this hell many times, just to continue using, you are horribly addicted MENTALLY... and not mental addiction like you get with weed, sex, chocolate... not the 'mental addiction' that means you like something... this addiction is NOT something you can control, it has a place in your unconcious.... How many of us have had those EXTREMELY vivid dreams about finding oxy pills or some other opiate, these dreams during the time you're trying to quit, sometimes so vivid that you wake up and wonder 'where is that pill that I found???' before remembering it was actually a dream... in my opinion, you can want to quit, but your brain will fight with your own conciousness trying to make you go against your will to increase the normal opiate level... The key is stoping the addiction, and then dealing with the withdrawls...

To me, it sounds like you're not ready to stop being an addict. you keep refering to going back to norcos and H, and strongly doubt any abilities of suboxone. I don't think youve kept a steady enough stream of the bupe in your system without introducing other opiates, nor given a proper ammount of time to taper off the drug properly...

either know you're fed up, put up with the pain, sell ALL the norcos or flush them, and quit for good.... or move someplace else where you have no connections and do not attempt to make new connections, that can help a lot.

i hate to make it sound like you're not trying, it just seems like you need to have more faith in suboxone rather than thinking its just dope, just another opiate. An easy way to put this without going into technical crap... Suboxone only partially bonds to your receptors, providing enough to feel normal, rather than a full opiate that fully bonds to your receptors. Now if you have been getting high, your receptors are damaged and possible you have a low ammount of them. only partially covering them can allow them to partially 'heal'... but it takes time...
you can get off suboxone without HORRIBLE withdrawl. Although dropping the dose, even slowly, isn't at all comfortable... it is something you can accomplish

 

[timetohunt]

Monthly switching suboxone and strong opiates - Advise needed

Its been awhile since I posted here. I think I'm on the right board for this.

I would like to ask that experienced folks reply to this that actually know or believe they are close to answering this question with good knowledge.

My Background 1: Chronic pain patient with scripts. Oxymorphone and roxi. I use heavily for about 10 days out of each month. (there is a number of reasons why its about 10 days or 2 weeks but that is not important to my issue here). It all started with pain ofcourse but my main love affair with these is how super productive I am and that conquer the world feeling. I get physically addicted each and every time after about the 3rd day 'on', I'm waking in withdraw until I snort that first pill. I will do about 8 pills a day of varying strengths, but trust me its way up there.

Background 2: I have a supply of suboxone that I get on after my 'run' each month. Even with suboxone, my first 2 days are extremely rough. If I did not have the sub, I'd be in for a screaming w/d and would not be able to go out and support myself. Not be able to work. I usually am ok by the forth day. As I mentioned the first 2 days are very very hard, even with up to 12mg of sub. The amount of sub does not really matter, taking more than 8 or 12mg is just a waste. I have just enough energy to make it through a work day if absolutely necessary, but I am on the brink of not making it most times. That is why I try to end my 'run' on weekends.

First off I know this is not good and that I should be living my life differently. That is another challenge I plan on accepting once I don't have so much thrown at me during a very tough transitional period in my life. Too much to mention here - but I am going for a procedure to help with the degenerated discs in my back. If its successful that will be a starting point.

Finally here is my question. Every time I get off the heavies and go to suboxone, I stop the pain killers abruptly. Meaning, I leave myself with no pain killers then go right to the sub. If I were to leave myself a few Opanas to take after the 'first' subs would this ease me into my sub state? Some folks might not believe me when I say how bad these couple of days are even with the suboxone. Its not full blown w/d but it is still actually horrendous. I could not even imagine coming off of 80mg of daily Opana without the sub but I tell you its still very rough. Trying to ease this out a bit and was wondering if holding over some of the dope for that time period would help.

Note: you don't have to tell me that the sub blocks all of the other stuff, it does block most, but not all.

Thanks.

 

[psychotic]

Suboxone made me feel like shit when I drank on it too.

Psychotic, I would recommend going down to 0.2mg everyday, rather than 0.5mg every other day, so that you maintain a steady level of sub in your system. With doses this low, they can wear off in 12 hours. I barely had any withdrawals when I jumped off of 0.2mg a day.

I highly agree... in fact the lower you can taper your dose, the better off you'll be when you quit... I simply mention .5 mg because that is 1/4 of a 2mg tab... I find it hard to break equal peaces smaller than that.
However, yeah taking even that 1/4 of a 2mg tab and breaking it in half would be best.

The steady ammount wearing off in 12 hours though, I'm not sure... I believe you're personal experience, but the halflife of suboxone is long enough that many people get by taking it every 3rd day...

Knowing the halflife is fairly long, I thought it made sense to taper to a small ammount and then taper even lower to every other day (also because thats what my physician was mentioning when I asked how tapering off works)

 

[Mr Blonde]

I'm going to merge this into the suboxone mega thread.

Finally here is my question. Every time I get off the heavies and go to suboxone, I stop the pain killers abruptly. Meaning, I leave myself with no pain killers then go right to the sub. If I were to leave myself a few Opanas to take after the 'first' subs would this ease me into my sub state? Some folks might not believe me when I say how bad these couple of days are even with the suboxone. Its not full blown w/d but it is still actually horrendous. I could not even imagine coming off of 80mg of daily Opana without the sub but I tell you its still very rough. Trying to ease this out a bit and was wondering if holding over some of the dope for that time period would help.

I doubt they will help much seeing as bupe will block the receptors.

 

[ofukibenhearB4]

hey buddy
if you think i havent given suboxone a try then you HAVENT READ MY POSTS!!!!!!!!!! ARG is vary frusterating. i have stated i have been on sun for OVER a year. you also keep thinking that i have not done a proper taper
im tellign you i have tapered for several months, and stayed clean for around 2 weeks and it is still SOOO fucked up that it KILLS any dope wd ive ever encountered.
the reason i keep talking about going back to full agonists is I BELIVE THAT THE WD WOULD NOT BE AS INTENSE as wd from suboxone MAINTENENCE. you obviously have never met this monster, and im glad and i prey you never do. whether or not you agree with my "heroin in a pill" analogy im telling you that for ME THAT is what I am going through, that suboxone wd after using it for MAINTENENCE )not wd) it HAS become a monster far worse than any dope addictio ive ever had. i dont care if you dont believe me. and if you think higher doses of bupe are nessesary you are NUTS. higher doses of bupe just mean a worse addiction, a worse wd. but to each his own, im sorry for fighting didnt mean it that way. jst dont like it when someone thinks that they know what im going through based on what "science" tells them when theyve OBVIOUSLY NEVER BEEN addicted to bupe.
to each his own

 

[chrisinabox]

hey buddy
if you think i havent given suboxone a try then you HAVENT READ MY POSTS!!!!!!!!!! ARG is vary frusterating. i have stated i have been on sun for OVER a year. you also keep thinking that i have not done a proper taper
im tellign you i have tapered for several months, and stayed clean for around 2 weeks and it is still SOOO fucked up that it KILLS any dope wd ive ever encountered.the reason i keep talking about going back to full agonists is I BELIVE THAT THE WD WOULD NOT BE AS INTENSE as wd from suboxone MAINTENENCE. you obviously have never met this monster, and im glad and i prey you never do. whether or not you agree with my "heroin in a pill" analogy im telling you that for ME THAT is what I am going through, that suboxone wd after using it for MAINTENENCE )not wd) it HAS become a monster far worse than any dope addictio ive ever had. i dont care if you dont believe me. and if you think higher doses of bupe are nessesary you are NUTS. higher doses of bupe just mean a worse addiction, a worse wd. but to each his own, im sorry for fighting didnt mean it that way. jst dont like it when someone thinks that they know what im going through based on what "science" tells them when theyve OBVIOUSLY NEVER BEEN addicted to bupe.to each his own

ok i'm not completely sure if you are talking to me or that other guy but i HAVE read your posts and i KNOW you gave suboxone a try. hell, you are talking about suboxone constantly and this is the sub mega thread so wtf. i also NEVER said you did not try to taper, i said that you may have not done a long enough taper and went down to a low enough dose of bupe to have minimal withdrawal. if you think bupe w/d is worse than say heroin w/d, thats fine, that is your opinion and it is neither right nor wrong. oh, and you say i have obviously never met this monster. you are wrong! i was an IV Heroin addict for several years and am now on Suboxone maintenance, usually 4mg a day insufflated. so i definitely know what you are going thru. i never said for you to take higher doses of bupe. i don't know where you got that from. and the last thing where you said "he's obviously never been addicted to bupe". just b/c i disagreed with something you said and said i don't believe you did a long enough taper does NOT mean i don't know what bupe addiction is. so when someone disagrees with you, that means they don't know what you are going thru. wrong! i wouldn't have even commented on your posts unless i knew what you were going thru. i don't comment on ppl going thru gbl w/d or alcohol w/d b/c i don't know exactly what they are going thru. i only commented on this b/c i know what it is like to go thru opiate withdrawal. peace.

and sixpartseven/other moderators, please don't delete this as i believe i was very calm and simply stated my point in a nice way. if anybody needs their posts deleted, its ofuk, he can't seem to respond in a calm, collected manner. thank you.

 

[psychotic]

hey buddy
if you think i havent given suboxone a try then you HAVENT READ MY POSTS!!!!!!!!!! ARG is vary frusterating. i have stated i have been on sun for OVER a year. you also keep thinking that i have not done a proper taper
im tellign you i have tapered for several months, and stayed clean for around 2 weeks and it is still SOOO fucked up that it KILLS any dope wd ive ever encountered.
the reason i keep talking about going back to full agonists is I BELIVE THAT THE WD WOULD NOT BE AS INTENSE as wd from suboxone MAINTENENCE. you obviously have never met this monster, and im glad and i prey you never do. whether or not you agree with my "heroin in a pill" analogy im telling you that for ME THAT is what I am going through, that suboxone wd after using it for MAINTENENCE )not wd) it HAS become a monster far worse than any dope addictio ive ever had. i dont care if you dont believe me. and if you think higher doses of bupe are nessesary you are NUTS. higher doses of bupe just mean a worse addiction, a worse wd. but to each his own, im sorry for fighting didnt mean it that way. jst dont like it when someone thinks that they know what im going through based on what "science" tells them when theyve OBVIOUSLY NEVER BEEN addicted to bupe.
to each his own

i believe it was directed towards me...

everything I say, is based on my experience, coming up on 2 years of taking bupe. yes, I have gone without it for a week, my cravings came back, I was still mentally addicted, and decided I couldn't stop taking it yet...

"and stayed clean for around 2 weeks"

Take suboxone, AND ONLY suboxone for 6 months. no relapses, no other opiates... Go out and get a nice job with health insurance to pay for it, as you won't be high on opiates or crashing on them every other day, your life can be just as normal as if you weren't dependent on anything.

THEN come back and complain how it is hell, and how it is far worse than any other opiate you have ever done....
It can save your life, but first you need to change your set of mind.
The way you're talking, you've had a bad experience trying to get off opiates... Suboxone is supposed to help... but it didn't, so you are extremely angry and taking it out on the suboxone, comparing it heroin and saying it is worse, the withdrawls are horrible, etc, etc.... you're so mad at the medication because it didn't get you off opiates, you refuse to try and use it properly.

Like I said, take the suboxone at the right level that keeps you from craving other opiates, after 6 months you would be able to start tapering... and it make take AT LEAST 3 more MONTHS just to taper...

your body is that dependent on this shit (yes I agree to that) that you need to go down EXTREMELY slow... but full opiates, you get high, it only increases your mental addiction, the part of your brain that feels like you need that high, that when you taper down, it is hard not to just do the rest..... but I never feel like I HAVE TO HAVE suboxone and will STEAL just to get it (the way other opiates made me feel), instead... I take it because I know I don't WANT those feelings to come back...

This drug has saved so many opiate addicts.... its just, amazing...
and yes, your situation is different... you have had a different experience,
but that doesn't mean it CAN'T do the same for you that it has for so many others.... only you can change that situation and create a new experience.

 

[psychotic]

I'm going to merge this into the suboxone mega thread.


Quote:
Originally Posted by timetohunt
Finally here is my question. Every time I get off the heavies and go to suboxone, I stop the pain killers abruptly. Meaning, I leave myself with no pain killers then go right to the sub. If I were to leave myself a few Opanas to take after the 'first' subs would this ease me into my sub state? Some folks might not believe me when I say how bad these couple of days are even with the suboxone. Its not full blown w/d but it is still actually horrendous. I could not even imagine coming off of 80mg of daily Opana without the sub but I tell you its still very rough. Trying to ease this out a bit and was wondering if holding over some of the dope for that time period would help.


I doubt they will help much seeing as bupe will block the receptors.

timetohunt: you can try the opana after suboxone... you may not feel it, but it will have SOME effect... I'm not sure why the suboxone is causing any uncomfortable feelings... it is very potent for that exact reason... I suspect your simply missing the feeling of being high, which is understandable and cant be subconcious as well..

I personally have taken oxy many times while on suboxone, later in the day, however the suboxone was still fully active... it would never get me high, but I did feel some of the body effects, very slight mood lift.... think of the effects you'd normally get, and then divide that by about 12.
take the suboxone, wait 30 min, do some opana, don't expect to get high, but if you are truely still feeling withdrawl it will help....
NEVER take suboxone while you are still feeling ANY effects from the opana, you can only do the other way around... suboxone FIRST then opana, otherwise if you are on an opiate and take suboxone, you'll go straight into withdrawal.

If you do this, I'd recommend that you taper the opana, you should be fine after 24hours of doing the opana to take more suboxone and take the opana 30 min after, but like I said, I'd taper the opana down until the suboxone alone makes you feel alright... If you are only using suboxone to help withdrawal between using, then you will most likely regret trying this as you may feel it is a waste of your opana.

regardless, be careful

 

[sixpartseven]

Suboxone made me feel like shit when I drank on it too

Thats weird (well, no its not, actually) because I LOVE drinking on suboxone. I know I am the exception to the case, though. Generally suboxone makes alcohol feel worse.

i never said it wasnt nearly as strong as fent. i believe fentanyl is 81 times stronger than morphine and buprenorphine is 25-40 times stronger.

like i said above, i was just mentioning my slight disagreement with what ofukibenhearb4 was saying.

sixpartseven, did you delete my post? i dont see it on here anymore. i dont think i was being any more mean than ofuk. i was just saying my point of view. now ofuk wont be able to see my post showing that i DID read his posts and i am NOT naive. thank you.
if something else happened, sorry.

I did unapprove your posts, but I unapproved some of his as well. They were argumentative and I want to try to keep stuff like that out of this thread. Nothing personal, just cleaning up.

 

[EnYAY]

Thats weird (well, no its not, actually) because I LOVE drinking on suboxone. I know I am the exception to the case, though. Generally suboxone makes alcohol feel worse.

That is weird. suboxone almost blocked ALL positive effects of drinking for me. all euphoria and pleasure that was associated with having a nice cocktail or too. im not talking about getting shit faced. that was when i was 18, not my thing anymore.

now that im a week + clean. ive had maybe 2 drinks with dinner. and it feels like a completely different feeling.


its back to a pleasurable buzz.

when i was on suboxone and i drank it gave me this weird feeling. like i wanted to leave wherever i was and just go home and lay in bed. almost sick.

very negative buzz. VERY anti social. which is EXACTLY the opposite of what alcohol does.

 

[sixpartseven]

One thing that is different for me with drinking ON suboxone compared to drinking NOT ON suboxone, is no matter what type of alcohol I drink (liquor, beer, wine, etc.,) I always get depressed, but everything else is the same (social, talkative, numb, euphoria, relaxed, etc.)

Im not talking aobut getting shit faced either, although lately, I cant stop at just a couple drinks. I always end up getting shitfaced.

 

[psychotic]

That is weird. suboxone almost blocked ALL positive effects of drinking for me. all euphoria and pleasure that was associated with having a nice cocktail or too. im not talking about getting shit faced. that was when i was 18, not my thing anymore.

now that im a week + clean. ive had maybe 2 drinks with dinner. and it feels like a completely different feeling.


its back to a pleasurable buzz.

when i was on suboxone and i drank it gave me this weird feeling. like i wanted to leave wherever i was and just go home and lay in bed. almost sick.

very negative buzz. VERY anti social. which is EXACTLY the opposite of what alcohol does.

suboxone and drinking didn't make me feel like shit... BUT it did get rid of all euphoria and pleasure associated with a few drinks, and it didn't make me extremely social nor shitfaced when I drank a lot...

It DID make me feel like shit, however, the next morning... which I never did get hangovers before being on suboxone. odd that it makes it more enjoyable for some....
but then again, some people can use it recreationally, while those of us using it to get off other opiates typically find it of very little to no recreational value.

 

[sixpartseven]

I cant use it recreationally and I still enjoy drinking on it

 

[EnYAY]

Seems like drinking on sub has its drawbacks for ALL. while not as major, it is still present.

for me it eliminated all positive effects, and yea i WAS fucked up....BUT i most defiantly did not enjoy it.

for you it might bring depression and for some it erases ALL euphoria.

the general idea here is that for majority of sub users I KNOW personally, and my good friends on the inter-web-net-cycle-forums it does the same. while not as severe. the bitch is still there!

I REALLY am interested as to why this is so.... although i don't have the slightest clue lol

 

[danalprazolam]

I came to a weird point where I want oc's again. I felt like my brain changed from suboxone and it did. I had no cravings for opiates even when offered exotic ones like oxymorphone. Anyways, when I did oc's.

I also used to have dreams that I would be washing off the coating then drop it down through the sink hole almost. Then I would grab it and be so happy. Then I would wake up.

I dont get what triggered this, could it be quiting weed for 6 months and relapsing? I hated this stuff and went from 16mg's to 8 to 4. I've been stuck on 4. Tryed to take 3mg's for a few days and have felt weird.

So i'm confused and I dont know what to do . I just want to live a happy life. Maybe I'm screwing with my med's to much by going up and down on dosages. That might be it.

I guess there's a part of me that want's to keep taking stuff, feel the extreme high's and lows (not from suboxone only) WHen I say extreme high's I mean EXTREME. Like today I had the best day ever now I feel confused.

I know this is from smoking weed. When I quit smoking it I could even drink and feel sober. But somthing about weed made me feel like my old self. The person who wanted to take opiates and get a good nod going and smoke a bowl.

The person who I remember always felt good. Now I dont know how i'll feel, sober. Or tommarow. I'm starting to excercise. But i'm at a point now that I think was brought on from stress. Having people get in my business that arn't my Dr. People tell me what's good for me. Like smoking weed everyday which I QUIT, Then relapsed 3 times so far. I dont know I gotta just relax and get over it........