Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

[Foul Play]

He took it too soon. You always want to wait AT LEAST 24 hours after you last dose.

The longer you wait, the better.

He will probably be in the precipitated w/d for anywhere from 30 minutes up to 6 hours. Don't give him more Suboxone, this will not help...All you can do is wait it out, unfortunatly.

 

[Ham-milton]

just dosing every 12 hours until he's better.

that's all.

 

[johanneschimpo]

re: what Foul Play said - You don't always have to wait 24 hours. Sometimes its less, sometimes its more. Thats just a number thats tossed around because some people freak out and need to know an exact number.

Anyway, I agree with the above. Sounds like its just precipitated WDs, which should wear off in a few hours, and its probably complicated by mental things (him freaking out, expecting the worst). I can tell you that if its been 12 days since methadone, that isn't part of the equation.

I say more benzos or a z-drug to help him chill. Bupe with benzos is not as dangerous as a full agonist with benzos... so if he can handle methadone/dilaudid with benzos, he will be fine with bupe and benzos.

 

[smackem]

Keep on dosing him with sub. There is no turning back now. More than likely he had hydromorphone in his system and probaly some methadone. Methadone has been shown to have up to a 300 hour half life in some people .Withdrawls start really kicking in wayyy before the opiates are completely out of his body. His 'really bad wds' which I am sure where horrible, were just gonna go downhill from where his was at. The suboxone isn't a miracle cure and he can expect to feel like shit for a few days. He will feel bad, tho not near as bad as he would with NO opiates.

 

[jgwire]

From Sub induction trouble person -- tx

Thanks folks, though I got various opinoins, I think I will be able to figure this out.

So are you folks who are saying to not give him anymore bupe saying I shouldn't give him anymore at all? Or just wait until the precipiated W/D wear off? Perhaps in four hours or so?

And for the ones who say keep dosing him, again, should I wait a few hours?
and still give him 4 mg at a time. Or should I just keep dosing...like now?

Just now, He was screaming: I CANT STAND IT" Which is exactly what I was screaming when I did my prec W/D -- this sub is so weird.

So this sub induction definatley didn't work. -- then again, he (only) got 7 mg total -- though I know that "less is more when dosing bupe....." But perhaps he needs more? I would never go past 9 or 12 mg, though, even though I've got a bottle of 8 mg tabs.

Oh fuck I've heard so much about bupe -- both from anecdotes on drug sites AND from official Sub literature and doctors -- that I don't know what to believe anymore. It's all conflicting.

Anyway, after reading your repsonses, I decided for now just to give him 20 mg more Valium and 30 mg Restoril. I wanna give him 50 mg trazadone, but he knows that trick and won't
take it. that's what we did last time. He slept through the whole thing but it worked.

Also he's not THAT tolerant to benzos..... so I don't see how I can give him Valium every two hours. He's already taken 60 mg Valium and 60 mg Restorial (a similar benzo for sleep)

BTW, I'm not a big fan of clock watching when doing buping induction either == that's why we got the COWS scales -- you can't fake them. The pupils are either dilated or they are not, You have sweats or you don't. You can't sit still or you can -- or course you could fake it, but he's not about to do that. Then there's the BP and the pulse.

So I trusted it. -- Hell 18 hours for a (very high dose of a very strong drug ) but still a drug that has only a 2 hour half life?

I'm so confused.... I studied and studied and read and read and planned for this and promised him it would be OK. And here he's been dopesick and having prec W/D for the last 12 hours

FOLKS: USE A DOCTOR TO DO THIS. But I've heard that bupe docs just give you the first pill and then tell you what to do at home. I've talked to an addictionolgist about this twice, but he's not helping us cause he wouldn't agree with giving Valium. .

I'm rambling and going back and forth as you can see -- bupe him in a few hours... No wait till tomorrow....no, go to bed --

Thanks for whoever assured me that bupe and benzos aren't as dangerious as methadone and valium -- that'll sure help ME when my day of reckoning comes.

We'll just have to wait it out -- I just know we BOTH gotta get off all this shit or it's going to kill us. We're both pushing 50 -- and those of you nearing or past that age know what THAT means.

BTW, Bupe is supposed to be the "magic pill" -- and mabye it is for 17 year olds who have been taking 5 of their mom's vicodins for two months. But it seems tougher for longtime addicts. We've been at this 30 years.

So to all you teen addicts chewing oxies as your read this:
THIS nonsense is what you have to look forward to in a few decades if you don't say no to hard drugs. - -and I"m for legalizing everything!!!

To wrap it up -- Do most folks agree that if I wait till tomorrow morning, we can "start all over" because the prec W/D will be over, and he'll only be in Dilaudid W/D anymore only this time there will be NO dilaudid -- I pray.

More imput welcome
Thanks.
Greenwire.

 

[thugpassion]

Its good to start slow with Buprenorphine, take a few mgs. at a time over the course of an hour until you start to notice a difference. Not the whole dose at once. Also 64mgs of Dialaudid is alot, it may take a day or two for the bupe to work well and make him feel better but it defently will soon enough, just wait till tomarrow and it will be way better.................if the bupe is making him sick wait atleast 8 hours and then take a small amount(s) at a time.

 

[Unknown]

With that opiate habit, hes not receiving enough to corner withdrawls. Ive heard of doctors prescribing 24mg buprenorphine a day. 64mg of hydromorphone a day is a lot. Hydromorphone has a 10:1 ratio with morphine and is 3 times stronger than diacetylmorphine (heroin). So with this tolerance said, maybe buprenorphine (suboxone) isnt helping him because of his HUGE tolerance. Because of suboxones ceiling, really high doses wont help. Sounds to me this man needs methadone to taper down.

He needs a doctor to dose this out. This is a major problem, that needs to be monitored.

 

[Unknown]

BTW, Bupe is supposed to be the "magic pill" -- and mabye it is for 17 year olds who have been taking 5 of their mom's vicodins for two months. But it seems tougher for longtime addicts. We've been at this 30 years.

I dont understand why you feel this way. Buprenorphine is a great semi-synthetic opiate in which the analgesia is 25 to 40 times stronger than morphine. I took it for pain, in which it sucked. It did make me really high though.

 

[biggerstronger]

There is nothing magical about bupe. It is hard to transition from any strong opiate to bupe because it is much different than full agonists. Especially so for someone that has a large tolerance. My tolerance is/was similar to your partners and it sucks each and every time, but the first time I switched over was especially bad just because I didn't know what to expect, precipitated w/d's have to go away on their own for the most part. Tell him to chill out. A lot of it is in his head. He is exagerating his w/d symptoms because 1) he doesn't know how he is supposed to feel. 2) he doesn't know how long it's going to last 3) you assured him everything is fine and it is not so he is panicking 4) he doesn't seem to be strong willed about switching 5) there is the thought in the back of his head that you have full agonist opiates laying around and if he complains enough you may give it to him (addicts behavior). So he just needs to suck it up and deal with it for a while maybe 8 hours or so. I felt like crap for about 8-12 hours the first day, I felt a little crappy for the following 2 days but I was perfectly fine, able to work, and able to sleep. If he continues to complain it just means he is not ready to get off the drugs.

 

[biggerstronger]

Also I'm not trying to be harsh about the whole thing. I understand completely. Also please don't tell me that "It's not just in his head because how can he fake the COWS tests". Those Cows test are just a testing of how severe your symptoms are in regards to w/d. It's difficult to fake a running nose, but if you already have some of w/d symptoms you can make them full blown by continuosly thinking about how bad your w/ding, the horrible pain, the terrible running nose and watery eyes, the restlessness. the anxiety, etc. Your mind plays a huge huge role in how bad you perceive your symptoms and it takes a little bit of self control and will to just realize that it's NOT THAT BAD.

You both I'm sure have gone through w/d many times doing this for 30 years. I'm sure you have had worse...he just doesn't want to pay the short term expense for a long term gain. Good luck to you both!

 

[sixpartseven]

When you take your first dose of bupe, you are ALWAYS supposed to wait 24 hours. You need time for all of the previous opiate to be out of his system. After you start taking bupe, you dont have to wait 24 hours anymore, but the first dose you MUST.

Stop giving him bupe and wait about 3 - 6 hours before dosing again. He should be fine after that.

 

[johanneschimpo]

BTW, Bupe is supposed to be the "magic pill" -- and mabye it is for 17 year olds who have been taking 5 of their mom's vicodins for two months. But it seems tougher for longtime addicts. We've been at this 30 years.

I don't know anyone with a 30 year habit... in fact, I don't know anyone who is 30. But I know people that have had large habits, multiple grams of heroin a day, or 600mg+ oxycontin a day habits, for years, who had no problem switching to bupe. And these people didn't take 24 or 32 mgs (doctors like to overprescribe bupe), they were able to get by with no more than 16mg day, and quickly lower that dose. I personally came off a rather large heroin habit (equivalent to several hundred mg of oxy), painlessly switched to 8mg bupe/day, and within a few days was only taking 4mg a day, and have been stable on that dose for almost a year now.
Its not just for kids taking 5 vicodin a day for 2 months.

When getting on bupe, a lot of it is mental. IME, the people that "bupe doesn't work for" are people who don't want to stop using, so they trick themselves into thinking that bupe doesn't work for them.

Its mind over matter. Allow bupe to work, want to be on it and off the junk, don't be stubborn, and it will work amazingly.

 

[bingey]

merging

 

[ellua]

IME, the people that "bupe doesn't work for" are people who don't want to stop using, so they trick themselves into thinking that bupe doesn't work for them.

Its mind over matter. Allow bupe to work, want to be on it and off the junk, don't be stubborn, and it will work amazingly.

agreed.

it's not a painless experience but it's definitely worth it.

initially i wanted to be on methadone over bupe, but now i've been stable on bupe for over a year and can admit i'm glad i'm not chasing a high like i know i would be on 'done.

on a side note for anyone who gives a flyin' one, got my insurance all straightened up and was finally able to get my refill this morning for $30, not the $380 i was expecting. so yay for that, it came right in time because i'd tapered down to a crumb every-other-day while waiting this past few weeks, and i was ready to call up OsCar and give him a go.... glad i didn't... kind of...

 

[second650]

i binged on norcos and percs all weekend starting on friday. sunday i took a lil more than 300 mg of oxy and stopped at 5 oclock in the evening. yesterday i tooh my suboxone 2mg at 10 am which was about 17hrs after all the damn percs and i must say i didnt get w/d's. maybe a lil anxiety beforehand when i woke up but nuthin to miss work about. i wanna thank all the people who dropped knowledge and put me up on game. thanks....

 

[Madmike]

Hey, got a weird looking pill .... Maybe a generic?

fuck. It can be anything almost then.

 

[johanneschimpo]

We don't allow pill IDs here... you know that.

Anyway, suboxone/subutex are not available as a generics yet (at least in the US, but it most likely is elsewhere), and that pill is neither suboxone nor is it subutex.

 

[Madmike]

I am getting a warm feeling though, one 1 mg (estimated, as it was sold as an Estonian buprenorphine 8 mg tab) IV'd.

 

[johanneschimpo]

^ Cool. I hope at the very least you double filtered through cotton. In a perfect world, of course, you would have used a micron filter.
(Note: I don't condone shooting pills in any way, shape, or form. However, I don't knock people or use that "holier than thou" bullshit with people who do.)

 

[Madmike]

^ Cool. I hope at the very least you double filtered through cotton. In a perfect world, of course, you would have used a micron filter.
(Note: I don't condone shooting pills in any way, shape, or form. However, I don't knock people or use that "holier than thou" bullshit with people who do.)

I have lost my micron filters and new ones are very hard to get.
I double or even triple filter if it seems even a bit cloudy.