Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

[Eight0Eight]

^ I only used the loperamide to not be sick.

I could of got smack - but I know where that will end up. If I switch from bupe to smack for more than a couple days, it becomes *very* difficult for me to get back on the bupe without a lot of sickness.

In the UK, a "bag" is just a wrap (made out of a cigarette paper) - and contains around 0.15-0.2grams Heroin. Its the smallest amount of H you can generally buy.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

In the UK, a "bag" is just a wrap (made out of a cigarette paper) - and contains around 0.15-0.2grams Heroin. Its the smallest amount of H you can generally buy

You need to edit out the price - it belongs in the price thread.

Withdrawing from heroin leads to sickness, that's to be expected.

You should really wait for the worst part of WD when switching back to bupe so you get the best relief from it.

Personally, I prefer not using heroin anymore. On this coming up Friday, I will have been clean from heroin for 8 months.

 

[Eight0Eight]

Done

On a brighter note - only 39 minutes before I get my Subutex!

I've also just remembered that my dose is reducing today - which is good I 'spose


Has anyone here jumped off at 0.1mg?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Done

Thanks man. If you didn't do it, I know a mod would've done it and it saves them the effort and such.

It's kind of a silly rule IMO...but I can see why, it kind of forces people to post in the price thread if they want to talk about that.

On a brighter note - only 39 minutes before I get my Subutex!

I've also just remembered that my dose is reducing today - which is good I 'spose


Has anyone here jumped off at 0.1mg?

Nope, I'm still on buprenorphine, 0.5mg 3x a day. It's really efficient. I'm thinking of cutting it down to 0.3mg 3x a day soon.

Do you have a digital scale? How much does an 8mg subutex weigh?

 

[Eight0Eight]

Haven't a clue what an 8mg Subutex weighs.

Doesn't matter though - as I can get Subutex in 8,4,2,0.4 and 0.2mg pills.

I'm going down to 2.2mg today. I put myself on daily supervised consumption - to stop me bashing through all my pills like this, and to stop IV'ing them.

My clinic say that I shouldn't feel anything (wd) 'till I get to around 0.8mg. I just want it to be as painless as possible, as I know what I'm like (!).

What dose did you start on?

*edit* - I forgot, I also have a naltraxone implant waiting for me at the end of it :/

 

[kasad]

i fucking hate naltrexone implants. I personally know people who have carved it out of their arms with razorblade. Point is naltrexon doesn't do any good to you except preventing you to relapse. And if you get some nasty PAWS you can't get any releif plus it prevents even that pesky ammount of endorphines that your body produces from working, ie you can't experience "runner's high"

That being said, naltrexone works for some people. It's usually for people who didn't went in too deep and naltrexone blankets the period in which they would supposedly relapse and helps them reach the point when their body is clean.

There are some researches that claim that naltrexone heals your receptors to some point, but fuck me if I am ever going to touch that shit.

Still, we are all different. Naltrexone (usually Revia) helped some people stay clean and get away from opiates permanently. From my experience those were usually "young junkies", not talking about actual age.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

What dose did you start on?

2mg 3x a day, so 6mg.

I was at 1mg 3x a day for quite a long while, then I found 0.5mg 3x a day works a lot better and I get a lot more out of it each time. Sometimes I only do it 2x in a day depending on what I'm doing.

 

[kasad]

You say you produce too much saliva to do the alcohol sublingual method - well, honestly when you use alcohol sublingually w/ suboxone, you'll only need a minute for it to dissolve, then you should be able to just spit out whatever's left.

I tend to dislike sublingual administration because I tend to vomit if I do it this way.

Let me know how it goes for you.



I would split your 8mg pill into 0.5mg doses (break into quarters, crush up one of the quarters and break it down into four piles of 0.5mg) and take 0.5mg each day. This way, the WD will be more tolerable than jumping off of 1mg a day.



That is true. You would feel the WD before a week or two, it'd be more like two or three days at the longest. I typically feel buprenorphine withdrawal within a day to 12 hours of my last dose.

Doh read your post after snorting my dose. Tomorrow I will try 6/7 method again. Btw it's subutex not suboxone, there is no suboxone around (thanks god).

You said you dislike sublingual, what is your ROA? snorting like I do in most cases?

P.S.

I can also feel wd start to set in within a 12ish hours

 

[Jabberwocky]

^can i just ask why you say thank god to there being no suboxone? do you really find that much of a difference between suboxone and subutex? if so, what exactly? im just curious

 

[Eight0Eight]

i fucking hate naltrexone implants. I personally know people who have carved it out of their arms with razorblade. Point is naltrexon doesn't do any good to you except preventing you to relapse. And if you get some nasty PAWS you can't get any releif plus it prevents even that pesky ammount of endorphines that your body produces from working, ie you can't experience "runner's high"

That being said, naltrexone works for some people. It's usually for people who didn't went in too deep and naltrexone blankets the period in which they would supposedly relapse and helps them reach the point when their body is clean.

There are some researches that claim that naltrexone heals your receptors to some point, but fuck me if I am ever going to touch that shit.

Still, we are all different. Naltrexone (usually Revia) helped some people stay clean and get away from opiates permanently. From my experience those were usually "young junkies", not talking about actual age.

What do you mean "relief" from PAWS? Heroin? Thats what I want to avoid.

I've been heavily addicted to opiates for 8 years now. I didn't fuck about, and went straight ot the needle :/

I figured I may as well give the implant a shot - its free here in the UK, and I think I need as much help as possible. I'm moving to the next city in september (Bristol), and although its a fresh start, I've *never* had trouble scoring anywhere - so I want to immunise myself against the smack for a year, just so I can get used to a life without it before the implant wears off.

Subutex has been a HUGE help. I really would recommend it to anybody who is struggling with opiates.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Doh read your post after snorting my dose. Tomorrow I will try 6/7 method again. Btw it's subutex not suboxone, there is no suboxone around (thanks god).

You said you dislike sublingual, what is your ROA? snorting like I do in most cases?

P.S.

I can also feel wd start to set in within a 12ish hours

I definitely don't snort it. I quit snorting all drugs when I quit snorting heroin. I IV it because it lasts a lot longer that way, and it's a lot more motivating and a lot less nauseating this way. The onset is within minutes instead of within the hour too.

I don't advise people using this route though because of lots of different ideas, mostly that it isn't as safe as shooting heroin. That and without good technique, you shouldn't even try it as missing a shot is more dangerous with buprenorphine in suboxone or subutex.

Others find it difficult not to use too much when IVing. However, if one uses too much, you're going to get angsty, agitated, etc, from having less monoamine neurotransmitters in action. This is why I find it really easy to IV low doses of buprenorphine and stay good from it for a long time - around 4 hours later is when I'll redose (maybe 6 or 8 or 12 depending on what I'm doing).

When I used buprenorphine sublingually, I would get nauseated on a constant basis, and puke every morning. It was horrible, and sometimes would puke before the pill was completely dissolved (which means I didn't really get it all...and then I'd be more sick...)

What do you mean "relief" from PAWS? Heroin? Thats what I want to avoid.

I've been heavily addicted to opiates for 8 years now. I didn't fuck about, and went straight ot the needle :/

I figured I may as well give the implant a shot - its free here in the UK, and I think I need as much help as possible. I'm moving to the next city in september (Bristol), and although its a fresh start, I've *never* had trouble scoring anywhere - so I want to immunise myself against the smack for a year, just so I can get used to a life without it before the implant wears off.

Subutex has been a HUGE help. I really would recommend it to anybody who is struggling with opiates.

I would stay with subutex. The reason is, if something happens to you and you need pain relief, you don't want the implant.

If you change your mind, there's no digging out the implant with a scalpel like you could just wait out the day or so for buprenorphine to ride itself out of your system.

If you have problems leaving heroin behind, think about how much withdrawals suck. That's why I've been on buprenorphine for so long, there's virtually no withdrawal symptoms I get, whereas heroin would always have me feeling low at the end of long term use.

 

[kasad]

^can i just ask why you say thank god to there being no suboxone? do you really find that much of a difference between suboxone and subutex? if so, what exactly? im just curious

Actually I never had a chance to try suboxone, but I have a case of what you could call antagonist paranoia. I've had really bad experience with precip. wd. from revia and also not being able to get any releif after some time on revia (I was clean and maybe 20mg codeine and a toke of weed would get me to feel bearable but I couldn't take codeine due to revia)

What do you mean "relief" from PAWS? Heroin? Thats what I want to avoid.

I've been heavily addicted to opiates for 8 years now. I didn't fuck about, and went straight ot the needle :/

I figured I may as well give the implant a shot - its free here in the UK, and I think I need as much help as possible. I'm moving to the next city in september (Bristol), and although its a fresh start, I've *never* had trouble scoring anywhere - so I want to immunise myself against the smack for a year, just so I can get used to a life without it before the implant wears off.

Subutex has been a HUGE help. I really would recommend it to anybody who is struggling with opiates.

I mean any kind of opiate. ie very small dose, I am fighting the addiction for like 16-17 years I dont even know how long anymore. I've had long periods of abstinence once almost 2 years. But it was always at the back of my head. And yes When I had severe PAWS I could pop like 2 tramadols, puff of weed, maybe some valium and feel fine. With naltrexone you can't do that. I mean weed and benzo won't take "_THAT_" terrible feeling away on their own. PAWS is a bitch.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Actually I never had a chance to try suboxone, but I have a case of what you could call antagonist paranoia. I've had really bad experience with precip. wd. from revia and also not being able to get any releif after some time on revia (I was clean and maybe 20mg codeine and a toke of weed would get me to feel bearable but I couldn't take codeine due to revia)

To be honest man, the naloxone does nothing at all. The buprenorphine has a much higher binding affinity to the mu-opioid receptor than naloxone does. No matter what RoA you use, naloxone is inert in essence within suboxone.

 

[kasad]

Yeah I am aware of that. My naltrexone/naloxone paranoia is induced by naltrexone pills, no bupe involved. I am aware that it's inert in suboxone, but still I prefer subutex because in my mind anything that has mention of naltrexone or naloxone is BAAAAD


Hm It would be interesting to test if one can experience runner's high on suboxone compared to subutex.

P.S. Captain, You didn't answer me whats your usual ROA for bupe?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I definitely don't snort it. I quit snorting all drugs when I quit snorting heroin. I IV it because it lasts a lot longer that way, and it's a lot more motivating and a lot less nauseating this way. The onset is within minutes instead of within the hour too.

I don't advise people using this route though because of lots of different ideas, mostly that it isn't as safe as shooting heroin. That and without good technique, you shouldn't even try it as missing a shot is more dangerous with buprenorphine in suboxone or subutex.

Others find it difficult not to use too much when IVing. However, if one uses too much, you're going to get angsty, agitated, etc, from having less monoamine neurotransmitters in action. This is why I find it really easy to IV low doses of buprenorphine and stay good from it for a long time - around 4 hours later is when I'll redose (maybe 6 or 8 or 12 depending on what I'm doing).

When I used buprenorphine sublingually, I would get nauseated on a constant basis, and puke every morning. It was horrible, and sometimes would puke before the pill was completely dissolved (which means I didn't really get it all...and then I'd be more sick...)

yes i did...it's on the last page.

 

[kasad]

Damn, I must be blind. Don't know how I missed that one.

Do you iv bupe alone by itself or you mix it with something?

I ived bupe 3 times and definitely there is no rush, but IVing even 1mg will hold me nicely whole day. 2mg seems like my pleasure ammount tho.

What technique you use? Did you ever missed?

I found that it's best to (in absence of micron/wheel filter) to use large gauge needle and stuff it with q-tip cotton, then run some alcohol trough it, then attach it to the syringe with dissolved bupe and squirt it drop by drop in sterile new syringe. It takes lots of time to prepare shot but it's crystal clear.

What are you tips on iving bupe?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Damn, I must be blind. Don't know how I missed that one.

Do you iv bupe alone by itself or you mix it with something?

I ived bupe 3 times and definitely there is no rush, but IVing even 1mg will hold me nicely whole day. 2mg seems like my pleasure ammount tho.

What technique you use? Did you ever missed?

I found that it's best to (in absence of micron/wheel filter) to use large gauge needle and stuff it with q-tip cotton, then run some alcohol trough it, then attach it to the syringe with dissolved bupe and squirt it drop by drop in sterile new syringe. It takes lots of time to prepare shot but it's crystal clear.

What are you tips on iving bupe?

By itself, typically won't mix it with anything. I've mixed it with ketamine before, though.

There is a rush, I just don't think you can feel it if you have any sort of opiate tolerance. With a low to non-existant opiate tolerance, there's definitely a rush behind it. It just isn't instantaneous like heroin is when IV'd.

The technique I use is as simple as prepping heroin for injection, you mix with water, let the sediment settle, and draw back. I don't filter at all, and the solution is clear enough to read the numbers through the syringe (though it's obvious not clear as in colorless, it's definitely not cloudy). I find if you let the solution settle for a few minutes, you get the most out of it and the least amount of sediment back.

I have missed parts of a shot, but definitely not the whole thing. It hasn't ever been a problem for me though. I have good technique and 99% of the time, I get it in without issue.

The most important thing about IVing buprenorphine is to do as least as possible to get positive effect out of it. I find 0.5mg at a time is the best dose, whereas 1mg is the highest I would do. 2mg at a time would indicate a tolerance that wouldn't be able to feel the 'rush' from buprenorphine in the first place, and I would advise if you need to take 2mg at a time, do it sublingually until you have tapered down a bit.

When I IV 0.5mg at a time, I prefer to let it ride out 4 to 6 hours. This way, by the time I do it again, I get a pretty good effect out of it. If you do it again too early (1 to 2 hours later), you're not as likely to get such a positive effect out of it. I find that 1/2 CC for 1mg (to split between two people) yields 21 to 23 units for each 0.5mg. This is a pretty convenient ratio. I have found you can get it more saturated than this, but I prefer this ratio to prepare two 0.5mg doses. I also had 1CC syringes, where I could prep 2mg (1mg for two people) with 86 units to yield 80 units (1mg in 40 units for each). This is a good ratio to prepare two 1mg doses.

 

[Northside]

Done

On a brighter note - only 39 minutes before I get my Subutex!

I've also just remembered that my dose is reducing today - which is good I 'spose


Has anyone here jumped off at 0.1mg?

Not .1, but I jumped off 4mgs five days ago and had mild WDs which have lessened today. And I am the opposite of you with the antidepressant action of bupe, I'm sure it made me more depressed than before, which is one reason I was so determined to get off it.

Everyone is different and I guess I'm just lucky that the WDs came and went fairly fast. I'm not dancing in the rain or anything but I'm definitely over the worst of it.

 

[Eight0Eight]

^ I'm a pussy when it comes to WD. I just go running to my nearest dealer.

I honestly don't think I could go through 4 days wd without just thinking "fuck it" and using.

Thats why I'm going to taper down to 0.1mg before jumping off.

Does anyone here know how Mephedrone goes with bupe? When I was on smack, I avoided uppers (crack excluded) as they made me feel like I was clucking. But I figured it might be different with bupe - seeing as it has such a high affinity and long half-life.

 

[Northside]

I don't know about meph but I used Lyrica 200-300 mgs a day and clonidine .1 at night.

You'll do well if you make a plan and stick to it and resign yourself to the fact that it's not gonna be painless but you can get through it.

I want to dose right now but I'm telling myself to forget that, it's been five days and I don't need it. What I really want at this point is a strong sleeping pill.