Opioids Suboxone 1mg - harder to walk off 1mg than it sounds. Need help!

[Shant]

Hi all. Been on heroin-> methadone 90mg (worst detox by far) -> fentanyl, smoking roughly 10 blue pills a day, going back 25 years. When I moved to SC a year ago, I thought I’d be fine. With my California connections I’d make a killing, but it turns I out it’s REALLY dry in Greenville. Which is great cause it’s the only reason I got clean.They say “Geographics don’t work, you take your problems with you!” Wrong! They’re the ONLY thing that’s worked for me.

Anyway, in 10 days I ran out of Fent, didn’t bother tapering. It was horrendous. Barfing & diarrhea simultaneously. You know the drill. Got HAMMERED with depression like never before. After a month 75% of the symptoms (except depression ) died down, I got on 2mg subs. What a night & day difference! I had energy again. Quickly cut it to 1mg, felt fine. But walking off 1mg? Not so easy as you might think. That shit CLINGS to your receptors for dear life. I'm on my 4th attempt. 3 full days no subs, half a day into day 4.

Considering popping a few kratom. My question is this. Will the kratom prolong me being free? Will it slow me down from getting out the other side as soon as possible? Not sure I can last more than a couple more days like this.

PS - I take gabapentin & Ativan 4mg to 8mg to take the odd nap. Hope that wasn’t too much info, Thanks in advance!

- Shant D

 

[pnillyg]

Good question. I’m in a similar boat wondering if a rapid sub taper would help me roll off of my kratom habit… sorry i dont have the answer but if i had to guess opiate receptor activity is opiate receptor activity? But maybe not if it’s a different receptor being activated? I’m curious to see what answers you get

 

[Shant]

Well, there’s a couple things there. Dropping your suboxone dose is shockingly easy. You can go from 16mg to 4mg in 2-3 weeks and really not feel it. Has to do with its long half life and because it doesn’t give you a buzz, it makes it easy to drop.

As far as “opiates are opiates”, that’s not entirely true. You have 3 different classes: Agonist (the ones we like); partial agonists (suboxone), or antagonists (naltrexone/narcan). You can’t take any of the 3 together or you’re screwed (PWD = withdrawal on steroids). Now there is such a thing as “cross tolerance”. I’m hoping some of the big brains in here can tell me if there’s cross tolerance between an agonist and a partial agonist. Even if there is, would a couple kratom pills a day affect my program?

 

[pnillyg]

Well, there’s a couple things there. Dropping your suboxone dose is shockingly easy. You can go from 16mg to 4mg in 2-3 weeks and really not feel it. Has to do with its long half life and because it doesn’t give you a buzz, it makes it easy to drop.

As far as “opiates are opiates”, that’s not entirely true. You have 3 different classes: Agonist (the ones we like); partial agonists (suboxone), or antagonists (naltrexone/narcan). You can’t take any of the 3 together or you’re screwed (PWD = withdrawal on steroids). Now there is such a thing as “cross tolerance”. I’m hoping some of the big brains in here can tell me if there’s cross tolerance between an agonist and a partial agonist. Even if there is, would a couple kratom pills a day affect my program?

I’ve put myself into PAWS before after taking OC a couple days-weeks took a Sub the next day and put myself into precip. Sorry if I didn’t come with the info you wanted but I’m also genuinely curious with you!

 

[Shant]

PWD’s are no joke. Eventually I figured out that you can take Fent, then subs, then more Fent. Clean induction. Fentanyl wears off, subs keep doing their thing.

 

[pnillyg]

PWD’s are no joke. Eventually I figured out that you can take Fent, then subs, then more Fent. Clean induction. Fentanyl wears off, subs keep doing their thing.

How longs the timing in between?

 

[tokayeahok]

Hi all. Been on heroin-> methadone 90mg (worst detox by far) -> fentanyl, smoking roughly 10 blue pills a day, going back 25 years. When I moved to SC a year ago, I thought I’d be fine. With my California connections I’d make a killing, but it turns I out it’s REALLY dry in Greenville. Which is great cause it’s the only reason I got clean.They say “Geographics don’t work, you take your problems with you!” Wrong! They’re the ONLY thing that’s worked for me.

Anyway, in 10 days I ran out of Fent, didn’t bother tapering. It was horrendous. Barfing & diarrhea simultaneously. You know the drill. Got HAMMERED with depression like never before. After a month 75% of the symptoms (except depression ) died down, I got on 2mg subs. What a night & day difference! I had energy again. Quickly cut it to 1mg, felt fine. But walking off 1mg? Not so easy as you might think. That shit CLINGS to your receptors for dear life. I'm on my 4th attempt. 3 full days no subs, half a day into day 4.

Considering popping a few kratom. My question is this. Will the kratom prolong me being free? Will it slow me down from getting out the other side as soon as possible? Not sure I can last more than a couple more days like this.

PS - I take gabapentin & Ativan 4mg to 8mg to take the odd nap. Hope that wasn’t too much info, Thanks in advance!

- Shant D

no way a fellow SC bluelighter! i’m in greenwood so only about an hour from you! why do you want to hop off subs so quickly? take as much time as you need, as it’s not necessary to jump off that quick. i mean, taking any more opioids will prolong the ‘withdrawal’ - if you’re tickling those MORs then you’ll be ‘dragging it out’ so to speak, but using things like kratom will significantly lessen the blow if you need someone to talk to feel free to hmu!

 

[Cult315]

Hi all. Been on heroin-> methadone 90mg (worst detox by far) -> fentanyl, smoking roughly 10 blue pills a day, going back 25 years. When I moved to SC a year ago, I thought I’d be fine. With my California connections I’d make a killing, but it turns I out it’s REALLY dry in Greenville. Which is great cause it’s the only reason I got clean.They say “Geographics don’t work, you take your problems with you!” Wrong! They’re the ONLY thing that’s worked for me.

Anyway, in 10 days I ran out of Fent, didn’t bother tapering. It was horrendous. Barfing & diarrhea simultaneously. You know the drill. Got HAMMERED with depression like never before. After a month 75% of the symptoms (except depression ) died down, I got on 2mg subs. What a night & day difference! I had energy again. Quickly cut it to 1mg, felt fine. But walking off 1mg? Not so easy as you might think. That shit CLINGS to your receptors for dear life. I'm on my 4th attempt. 3 full days no subs, half a day into day 4.

Considering popping a few kratom. My question is this. Will the kratom prolong me being free? Will it slow me down from getting out the other side as soon as possible? Not sure I can last more than a couple more days like this.

PS - I take gabapentin & Ativan 4mg to 8mg to take the odd nap. Hope that wasn’t too much info, Thanks in advance!

- Shant D

I was never sure how Kratom would effect sub detox until about a week ago. I just finally got fully off subs recently, and stupidly decided to get back on. Well my supply went dark again, leaving me with none and not nearly enough to taper. I had about 12g kratom kicking around, so for the first 4 days I just took 3g to help ease what I assumed would be light WDs. The Kratom helped, and on day 5 I seemed fine. Until I tried to sleep. Couldn’t sleep for shit, RLS, etc. Woke up the next day in full blown(yet milder) sub WD. Still in WD today, actually. Shit sucks but not nearly as bad as the last go around I guess.

 

[tokayeahok]

I was never sure how Kratom would effect sub detox until about a week ago. I just finally got fully off subs recently, and stupidly decided to get back on. Well my supply went dark again, leaving me with none and not nearly enough to taper. I had about 12g kratom kicking around, so for the first 4 days I just took 3g to help ease what I assumed would be light WDs. The Kratom helped, and on day 5 I seemed fine. Until I tried to sleep. Couldn’t sleep for shit, RLS, etc. Woke up the next day in full blown(yet milder) sub WD. Still in WD today, actually. Shit sucks but not nearly as bad as the last go around I guess.

any way you can grab some more kratom? if you punch around the 8-9g dose 3-4x daily it should knock the sub nasties out.

 

[Shant]

How longs the timing in between?

There is no down time. The moment you introduce the sub or some other antagonist, you just take Fent. Preferably by smoking it, as it’s a bit faster absorption than intradermals. They’ll probably be reaching the receptors at the same time. If you time it right, it’s flawless. Totally pain free. Look up the “ Burnese Method” if you really wanna look into it. My method is a crude modification of that.

 

[Shant]

no way a fellow SC bluelighter! i’m in greenwood so only about an hour from you! why do you want to hop off subs so quickly? take as much time as you need, as it’s not necessary to jump off that quick. i mean, taking any more opioids will prolong the ‘withdrawal’ - if you’re tickling those MORs then you’ll be ‘dragging it out’ so to speak, but using things like kratom will significantly lessen the blow if you need someone to talk to feel free to hmu!

Hey man careful what you wish for, I think I just may hit you up. Thanks

 

[Shant]

I was never sure how Kratom would effect sub detox until about a week ago. I just finally got fully off subs recently, and stupidly decided to get back on. Well my supply went dark again, leaving me with none and not nearly enough to taper. I had about 12g kratom kicking around, so for the first 4 days I just took 3g to help ease what I assumed would be light WDs. The Kratom helped, and on day 5 I seemed fine. Until I tried to sleep. Couldn’t sleep for shit, RLS, etc. Woke up the next day in full blown(yet milder) sub WD. Still in WD today, actually. Shit sucks but not nearly as bad as the last go around I guess.

Damn…so you’re saying the kratom certainly drags it out. Soon as you try to quit the kratom, sub withdrawal returns, albeit weaker. That about right?

 

[Shant]

any way you can grab some more kratom? if you punch around the 8-9g dose 3-4x daily it should knock the sub nasties out.

But then he’d have a decent kratom habit to kick, no? I’m still shocked how powerful just 1mg of suboxone is. It’s literally night and day. That’s exactly why I need to quit. Tired of my life revolving around chemicals.

 

[pnillyg]

There is no down time. The moment you introduce the sub or some other antagonist, you just take Fent. Preferably by smoking it, as it’s a bit faster absorption than intradermals. They’ll probably be reaching the receptors at the same time. If you time it right, it’s flawless. Totally pain free. Look up the “ Burnese Method” if you really wanna look into it. My method is a crude modification of that.

Checkin it out now.. only worry is getting stuck on subs as id rather come off kratom then subs but trying to see if there’s a sweet spot for going back and fourth to reduce tolerance, reset tolerance, or to just get off as painless as possible

 

[Shant]

Checkin it out now.. only worry is getting stuck on subs as id rather come off kratom then subs but trying to see if there’s a sweet spot for going back and fourth to reduce tolerance, reset tolerance, or to just get off as painless as possible

If you're trying to get clean, and I mean really trying, leave Fent out of the equation. I know from experience. Using it long term then stopping really pisses off your brain. You’ll get hammered with long term depression, something I never got quitting heroin…or even methadone. If you’re getting by on low-moderate amounts of kratom maybe stick with that.

 

[Shant]

So, I took my sleep cocktail of Ambien 15mg , 1200mg of gabapentin, a shit load of marijuana vape (indica), 50 mg of trazodone, and 4 mg of Ativan. I was asleep by midnight, but I was wide awake by 3 AM. I could take another 1200 mg of gabapentin. Hell I could probably take 2400mg and 4 mg of Ativan, but I don’t think it would do much good. A couple caps of Kratom would probably end this, but I think I’m just gonna push through it.. I made it this far right?

I’m on day 5 no opiates, meaning it’s been 4 full days since I had 1mg of suboxone. I can’t believe day 5 is the worst so far. Does anyone know how long the naloxone stays active and/or remains in the receptors? Is that what I’m waiting on?

This is as close to clean as I’ve been in 30 years. I’m not fucking this up for anything. Gonna try to stay real busy today…even though I lack the energy/motivation to put on a pair of socks…

 

[Shant]

Good question. I’m in a similar boat wondering if a rapid sub taper would help me roll off of my kratom habit… sorry i dont have the answer but if i had to guess opiate receptor activity is opiate receptor activity? But maybe not if it’s a different receptor being activated? I’m curious to see what answers you get

Something I neglected to mention. If you’ve already got a kratom habit that’s out of control and you wanna reduce it and eliminate it, you can indeed do that with Suboxone. But I would only do that if you have a very high kratom habit. If you’ve got a low to even moderate kratom habit I’m not sure you wanna add Suboxone to the mix. If it’s a high habit, you can definitely replace it with a low dose of suboxone. That’s the advantage, you only need so little of it. Start out with 4mg which will utterly wipe out any kratom withdrawals you may have. But you should be quickly down to two and quickly again down to one milligram. We’re talking 2weeks max to go from 4mg to 1mg. And trust me, the 1mg will hold, it’s got a 37 hour half life.

But you need to understand… if you do that you’re gonna be in the same boat as me. Trying to get off 1 mg of Suboxone is no joke, you’re gonna be stuck all over again. But if you can handle about 7 days of moderate withdrawals (doesn’t even get real bad til day 3 anyway), you can definitely beat it. I figure I’ve got 2 days of pain left. If I make it, you’ll know you can pull it off.

2 final VERY helpful suggestions.

1: get some proper comfort meds (gabapentin, ambien, any & all benzos if you can find real ones).

2: family support is HUGE if you can get it. Make sure they know what you’re doing, see if they can keep you busy.

Good luck my friend

 

[pnillyg]

Something I neglected to mention. If you’ve already got a kratom habit that’s out of control and you wanna reduce it and eliminate it, you can indeed do that with Suboxone. But I would only do that if you have a very high kratom habit. If you’ve got a low to even moderate kratom habit I’m not sure you wanna add Suboxone to the mix. If it’s a high habit, you can definitely replace it with a low dose of suboxone. That’s the advantage, you only need so little of it. Start out with 4mg which will utterly wipe out any kratom withdrawals you may have. But you should be quickly down to two and quickly again down to one milligram. We’re talking 2weeks max to go from 4mg to 1mg. And trust me, the 1mg will hold, it’s got a 37 hour half life.

But you need to understand… if you do that you’re gonna be in the same boat as me. Trying to get off 1 mg of Suboxone is no joke, you’re gonna be stuck all over again. But if you can handle about 7 days of moderate withdrawals (doesn’t even get real bad til day 3 anyway), you can definitely beat it. I figure I’ve got 2 days of pain left. If I make it, you’ll know you can pull it off.

2 final VERY helpful suggestions.

1: get some proper comfort meds (gabapentin, ambien, any & all benzos if you can find real ones).

2: family support is HUGE if you can get it. Make sure they know what you’re doing, see if they can keep you busy.

Good luck my friend

appreciate the 2 cents, ive actually Cold Turkeyed 16mg of Subs before was 60 ish days of proper withdrawl but i did it with ibogaine and NAD and Ketamine infusions... and i know trading isnt where its at but i do think for the taper the half life of bupe is better the kratom... trying to taper off of any physical dependance right now tolorence is faily high to z meds, benzos, and kratom (3-9gpd baseline) can go up to 20+ though

 

[Shant]

appreciate the 2 cents, ive actually Cold Turkeyed 16mg of Subs before was 60 ish days of proper withdrawl but i did it with ibogaine and NAD and Ketamine infusions... and i know trading isnt where its at but i do think for the taper the half life of bupe is better the kratom... trying to taper off of any physical dependance right now tolorence is faily high to z meds, benzos, and kratom (3-9gpd baseline) can go up to 20+ though

The half life of bupe is also a big factor why it’s so hard to kick. Exactly how much kratom do you take?

Btw- quitting 16mg cold turkey? What the hell for? Drop to 4 inside 2 weeks, pain free. Then you can go cold turkey if you must. Course you could always drop to 1mg inside another week, stabilize at 1mg for a few days, then walk off. Your 60 day ibogaine adventure would’ve lasted more like 6.

 

[pnillyg]

yea the jump from 16 was brutal its a long story, i bet it wouldve been shorter, im on 6-20 gpd but average around 10