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Study suggests little evidence Ecstasy causes brain damage

from personal experience, i'd say ecstasy is quite a strong drug that could potentially cause damage

how strong it FEELS as a drug, on your body on your brain...

but it's kind of like chocolate - something to be enjoyed, but as part of a balanced lifestyle

then there's Alexander Shulgin the inventor himself; who said we are in the era of the brain, but we are soon to move into the era of the mind. basically this means that we're more complex then just chemicals explanations, as Legerity said above

and when you compare ecstasy to alcohol; it seems much more harmless
people don't get into fights on ecstasy, people dont even die anywhere near as much as with alcohol
 
MazDan said:
When tested it just seemed to link to advertising. Bluelight does not allow spam.
Maybe there was a further link somewhere.
Can you provide a direct link please.
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Maz read my post above

Link worked fine, you have to scroll down and click download not click download from the obvious adbar at the top .;) Source of article is already credited in this thread, a direct link would not be possible as only available at membership required archives.
Click to expand...

sendspace is a legit filehosting site not spam :)
 
Ismene said:

The thing is my short term memory is not like it was before I did X

No-ones short term memory is ever as good as they think it was. That's just a consequence of getting older. Did you do any tests to ascertain how good your memory was before and then do the same tests afterwards? Or are you just guessing?
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It's pretty easy to tell if your short term memory is pretty good or not..
And it's pretty easy to tell when it starts to turn shitty..
I've had multiple occurrences after using MDMA where my memory was fuzzy and off and it got really annoying. Luckily the minor memory problems went away in time. I never abused the drug too much.
I do however have multiple friends that have had their memory SHOT from MDMA abuse. They are young (and are not losing their memory with age...) and abuse the drug and are suffering the consequences. I've had times where a friend of mine could barely form sentences when i was talking to him after heavy abuse. Luckily i got it through his head that he needed to listen to me and stop. So if you don't call memory/cognitive problems brain damage, then so be it, but personal experiences can definitely show a lot.
 
Shiznik i am not going to cite everything i say , sometimes you need to add things up as a whole and get the general idea. The things i have said have been read on enough reports to be something that is kind of like fact. You should know this because you seem so intelligent when it comes to mdma damage that you would have already gone through all the research. If you are one of those people who rolls once a year then get the fuck out of here, because you wouldn't know the things we are talking about. Even with once a month usage you can notice negative affects on your mind. Stop trying to protect your drug of choice and switch words around to fit with your argument.
Hey and its not like i quit rolling so i am bagging on it, i still roll once in a while. I am just pointing out that it is such a harsh chemical on your brain, that even with moderate use it can turn certain peoples lives around in a negative manner.
We have all seen enough of the posts on ecstasy discussion where people feel disoriented 24/7 and depressed and anxious all the time. You know where that comes from, id say from a fucked up serotonin system with cells not communicating correctly due to fried axons that may be permanent in some cases.
 
No Consequence said:
It's pretty easy to tell if your short term memory is pretty good or not..
And it's pretty easy to tell when it starts to turn shitty..
I've had multiple occurrences after using MDMA where my memory was fuzzy and off and it got really annoying. Luckily the minor memory problems went away in time. I never abused the drug too much.
I do however have multiple friends that have had their memory SHOT from MDMA abuse. They are young (and are not losing their memory with age...) and abuse the drug and are suffering the consequences. I've had times where a friend of mine could barely form sentences when i was talking to him after heavy abuse. Luckily i got it through his head that he needed to listen to me and stop. So if you don't call memory/cognitive problems brain damage, then so be it, but personal experiences can definitely show a lot.
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I don't call that long term/permanent brain damage no, there's nobody disputing the short term effects here. neurotransmitter depletion etc can have some pretty horrible effects but that does not = permanent cognitive impairment.

It's pretty easy to tell if your short term memory is pretty good or not..
And it's pretty easy to tell when it starts to turn shitty..
I've had multiple occurrences after using MDMA where my memory was fuzzy and off and it got really annoying. Luckily the minor memory problems went away in time. I never abused the drug too much.
I do however have multiple friends that have had their memory SHOT from MDMA abuse. They are young (and are not losing their memory with age...) and abuse the drug and are suffering the consequences. I've had times where a friend of mine could barely form sentences when i was talking to him after heavy abuse. Luckily i got it through his head that he needed to listen to me and stop. So if you don't call memory/cognitive problems brain damage, then so be it, but personal experiences can definitely show a lot.
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again, neurotransmitter depletion equals not permanent cognitive impairment.

Where are the majority of posters here from? When this study has been posted in other areas of the board it has received a much more positive reaction. I can't understand why in this forum people seem so desperate to believe their drug of choice causes permanent brain damage :\.
 
I'm not here to argue whether E is responsible for brain damage or not, however, I would just like to make a quick point or two. First off..

@No consequence: Although nobody really knows for sure whether E causes short term memory loss, have you ever thought to consider that maybe it was other drugs, not sure what else they do, but even weed or even alcohol, that could have caused your friends' short term memory loss. I know people who only smoke weed who have horrible short term memory and I know people who only drink who have horrible short term memory. Were they the sharpest tools in the shed before starting to roll all the time? Do they keep their mind active through reading/intelligent conversation? Not keepign your mind active will make it weaker and hence result in a worse short term memory. With regards to depression, a lot of people who start doing E, or any drug for that matter, are already depressed but just don't really know it. The drug makes them happy and forget that they are depressed and then once they stop using it, they become a whole lot more depressed. And finally, hasn't anyone considered that people who post on this site are more prone to think they are depressed/have anxiexty/adverse effects from drugs because they ALREADY have underlying anxiety/depression issues??? I have high anxiety, hence why I post and contribute to the site. Just a thought... reading all of these other people's horror stories tend to make a person more likely to experience bad effects because those stories of depression, brain damage, etc that are implanted in a person's mind will lead a person to attribute a regular bad week at work to "OMG I AM SO DEPRESSED FROM E I HAVE BRAIN DAMAGE."

Once again though, I am not saying whether E does or doesn't permanently damage your brain because NOBODY knows for a fact and there are too many underlying factors in each person's brain chemistry and what each person does to their body for it to ever be determined so its stupid to argue...
 
F1n1shed said:
If you are one of those people who rolls once a year then get the fuck out of here, because you wouldn't know the things we are talking about.
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Ouch. I'm sure he'll share his story, but he's said many times on this site that he has suffered negative effects from MDMA abuse. I think it's safe to say he knows what he's talking about in that regard.
 
Evad said:
I don't call that long term/permanent brain damage no, there's nobody disputing the short term effects here. neurotransmitter depletion etc can have some pretty horrible effects but that does not = permanent cognitive impairment.



again, neurotransmitter depletion equals not permanent cognitive impairment.
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Okay we'll maybe i took some of the posts a little differently than their intentions, because many people on this site say that there is brain damage that is reversible and irreversible; so if it's reversible, then it's not permanent. So by having some cognitive impairment, i took that as possibly being reversible, but still partial brain damage. At least to an extent (depending on abuse).

Sorry if that was confusing :b
 
Shiznik and all of those of you who share his similar arguement that ecstasy and MDMA do not impair brain function, I dare you to try rolling everyday for two weeks. By the time you finish you will come back to bluelight in tears begging for help.

Dont be so quick to dismiss somethin just cause you aint even gone through it. True Ive eaten some good beans and made more than my share of stupid mistakes, but I know that something in my mind has changed. My mind exist within my brain.

If I am operating at a function that lower than what society considers to be the norm, then I can only conclude I have caused myself some type of negative change. I can easily call it damage.

If you break a vase and its shattered into pieces I would consider it damage. Yeah true it was a vase at one time, but its DAMAGED and wont operate the way its SUPPOSED to. Even if you glue that bitch back together its still gonna have cracks in it and look like a piece of shit. Is it still a vase? Yeah but it aint the same.

We have bluelight to help people because its obvious drugs cause significant damaged when used too frequently. This must suggest that even using drugs infrequently cause minor changes. Its these minor changes that all add up when you abuse and become moar noticably apparent.

Shiznik I find your advice neither appropriate or helpful to the ED community. I would suggest chagin your tone cause everyone here thInks your a fool and your aggressive remarks dont impress anyone.

They make you seem ignorant.
 
again, the study said nothing about extreme abuse, it is on moderate users.
 
Why don't people ever bring up the fact that MDMA users are often users of speed/meth (in pills)? I mean it should be obvious that THOSE are responsible for the brain damage. How many users of pure MDMA are as messed up as those who take pills? Every time I think of someone messed up from the use of E, they just take E pills all night, which contain speed, meth, whatever. So you can't directly blame MDMA for those when there's another factor in the user vs control group.
 
F1n1shed said:
If you are one of those people who rolls once a year then get the fuck out of here, because you wouldn't know the things we are talking about.
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MasterSplinter said:
Shiznik and all of those of you who share his similar arguement that ecstasy and MDMA do not impair brain function, I dare you to try rolling everyday for two weeks. By the time you finish you will come back to bluelight in tears begging for help.

Dont be so quick to dismiss somethin just cause you aint even gone through it.
Click to expand...

I don't understand what about my remarks suggests that I haven't taken much MDMA - I've taken plenty. Here is some of my experience quoted from another thread about tolerance:
shiznik said:
I had a similar 6+ months which I considered to be quite an abuse of the drug. Weekly or bi-weekly dosing, sometimes 5 or more doses in a night, sometimes multiple grams in multiple days, snorted tons of pills and crystals, tons of alcohol, dehydration, barely any responsible eating, no exercise, etc. My tolerance went up but not too much. One pill would still feel the same, I would just desire to roll harder than I was used to rolling. The last time before quitting the honeymoon I rolled hard for 2 straight days. Personally, I don't really get this severe tolerance problem stuff. If that couldn't make someone "lose the magic" then I don't know... I had to stop because I felt like I was going crazy, and because I was running out of money (too many 300 dollar weekends), not because the drug wasn't working anymore, it definitely was.
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I know what MDMA abuse is like. I was extremely depressed, anxious, and even lethargic and scatterbrained for several months. I've since taken quite a long break and I don't feel as severely impaired as you say I should MasterSplinter. Do you honestly think you are so stupid because you took MDMA? I fully acknowledge I can be aggressive and act like an asshole, but I don't think everyone considers me a fool (or "ignorant" for that matter. You should try looking that word up in the dictionary). You on the other hand...
 
I think you can blame MDMA for some cognitive deficits. BBC's "20 Most Dangerous Drugs" stated that a person's memory isn't as good even after taking just 18mg of pure MDMA.

That documentary also stated that most MDMA-induced brain damage returns to normal after about a year though.

It's too difficult to pinpoint MDMA as being harmful or not harmful- there are too many factors such as staying up late, electrolyte deprivation, or if pills are cut with other substances that definitely cause brain damage, etc.

So far, none of it is very "good science," and everything that gets published needs to be taken with a grain of salt to accommodate for extenuating circumstances.
 
You could also point out that in that documentary it is listed at number 18 of 20, behind alcohol, tobacco, and cannabis.
 
sheepie said:
Why don't people ever bring up the fact that MDMA users are often users of speed/meth (in pills)? I mean it should be obvious that THOSE are responsible for the brain damage. How many users of pure MDMA are as messed up as those who take pills?
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Because contrary to popular belief, and what they teach you in schools, meth/speed isn't really that common of an adulterant. Also when ingested meth is probably not as harmful to your brain as it is when insufflated/smoked/injected - it enters the bloodstream more gradually and some is lost during digestion. I'm not an expert so don't quote me on that. This is in addition to the fact that even when a given pill IS cut with meth, it is likely less than what would be considered a single dose on its own. Doesn't seem that harmful.

Also, MDMA sold as "pure" MDMA (i.e. power/crystal form) can and is cut as easily as pills are.
 
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MasterSplinter you're really not even as stupid as you say you are anyways. I've seen you post in other threads and its fair to say you probably know more about how it works and the damage it can potentially cause than most people I know that don't frequent this forum. You (and others) call yourself stupid from what I can tell simply because you don't put much effort in to articulation.

I think, if even from just being a member of bluelight, you are comparatively smarter than a majority of the people who take MDMA worldwide... Consider that a large portion of those who take ecstasy don't even know what serotonin is... don't know that it is neurotoxic, or if they do, don't have the slightest notion of how... don't know the many forms it comes in, who it was synthesized by, etc. You know all of this. Surely your ability to retain information is not restricted to the confines of MDMA knowledge, so why do you sell yourself so short? Are you truly as stupid and impaired as you say you are? I really don't think so.
 
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